Boyfriend feels I've trapped him for getting pregnant

Hurtgirlfriend

Hurtgirlfriend wrote: »

We looked at what this baby would do to our lives/plans etc and I wasn't really seeing things as clear as he did from the start,the whole thing just stunned me and knocked my logical thoughts out of sink a bit .

Our talk this morning was very good for both of us,he suggested we talk about it again in a day or so to see how we still feel about it as we both agreed the last thing we want to do is rush into a decision and do something that we'll regret afterwards and that that's the last thing he'd want for me and likewise me for him.

Glad to hear it OP, this is the sensible approach! good luck

fonpokno

ellie1 wrote: »

And if you do get pregnant, you and your partner will have to deal with the consequences and have a baby, abortion or adoption together.

Yes, they should deal with it together. They should decide what is best for both of them. Not just what the OP has wants. He has a say in this too.

Unregistered wrote: »

He can choose whether to be part of the childs life or not. He will have a financial responsibility as he is the father of the child.

He is in a catch-22 situation. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

If he decides, as he'd originally stated, that he can't cope with this and walks away then he'll likely be painted as a terrible person by friends and family and will possibly end up regretting his decision. If he stays then he's giving up a good portion of his own hopes and dreams and will possibly resent the child.

A baby involves a lot of time and money. It won't be possible for him to continue with his life as he hoped to, no matter what any of you say. Now I know the OPs life will be changed also, i know, but she's making this decision for herself. Not having it thrust upon her. Both of them still live at home.

Kimia wrote: »

No matter how much he bleated on about being scared of her getting pregnant, he still went ahead and had sex with her.

Oh god forbid that they may have developed a healthy sexual relationship.

He did take on the sexual relationship under the condition that she was perfectly aware that he wasn't ready for children and that any pregnancy would be aborted. She was perfectly aware of this and now has broken those conditions.

shellyboo wrote: »

And even though she knew he didn't want a baby, she went ahead and had sex with him. So why is she expecting him to be a doting daddy now?

This is right on the money. She has no right whatsoever to expect him to agree with her decision. The OP can do what she wants yes but he very very clearly expressed that he did not want a child. It's not as if she should expect him to jump for joy now that what was probably his worst fear has been realised.

ellie1

Except it wasn't just some "plan b" was it? How foolish of him. Actually thinking he might be able to trust his girlfriend!!

Already discussed the absolute ridiculousness of preplanning what would one would do in the liklihood of contraceptives failing.

Hi,OP here,

Wow I haven't been on since last night and certainly wasn't expecting this amount of replies ! I see it's turned into some big raging debate more so than any advice ! but thank you all for your replies to Ok well we had a long chat this morning and put all our thoughts forward.
By warming to the idea I didn't mean that I had fully decided that I wanted it but I wasn't totally against it,sorry,I only found out a week ago now so it still hasn't fully sunk in with me yet.

We looked at what this baby would do to our lives/plans etc and I wasn't really seeing things as clear as he did from the start,the whole thing just stunned me and knocked my logical thoughts out of sink a bit .

Our talk this morning was very good for both of us,he suggested we talk about it again in a day or so to see how we still feel about it as we both agreed the last thing we want to do is rush into a decision and do something that we'll regret afterwards and that that's the last thing he'd want for me and likewise me for him.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry op, I did actually assume you had chose to carry on with the pregancy.

I expect everyone else will be also apoligising for assuming you trapped him.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

ellie1 wrote: »

He is asking her to have an abortion.

No he's asking her to keep her word. To keep her side of an agreement she made to try and get him into bed with her.

Sinall

Hurtgirlfriend wrote: »

Hi,OP here,

Our talk this morning was very good for both of us,he suggested we talk about it again in a day or so to see how we still feel about it as we both agreed the last thing we want to do is rush into a decision and do something that we'll regret afterwards and that that's the last thing he'd want for me and likewise me for him.

Glad to hear that you are talking about it OP. I hope you both come to a decision that you are both happy with.

The Corinthian

Kimia wrote: »

The tune was chosen by both of them when they had sex, resulting in the pregnancy.

Wrong. They both chose to have sex, but only she has chosen to keep the child. You are suggesting that once pregnant there are no choices, which is blatantly untrue. They may not come without cost or risk, but nonetheless they exist. It is a complete abdication of responsibility.

He doesn't have to have anything to do with the child, but he will have to pay maintenance, just as she will have to look after the child until it's grown up.

He has to pay maintenance because the law will force him to do so. She does not have to look after the child because the law does not force her to do so. This is the difference - one chooses and the other is coerced.

It's his choice to have anything to do with the child.
It's her choice to have the child. (Her body)

It's not in her body for 18 - 23 years.

K-9

Good to see you both are taking your time and trying to work it through.

It's interesting that some people can be very sympathetic if it was a woman choosing an abortion, but then slate a man for wanting the same!

Wibbs

Hurtgirlfriend wrote:

Our talk this morning was very good for both of us,he suggested we talk about it again in a day or so to see how we still feel about it as we both agreed the last thing we want to do is rush into a decision and do something that we'll regret afterwards and that that's the last thing he'd want for me and likewise me for him.

I join bluewolf in saying great to hear this. A bit of progress and not just a black and white situation that it may have looked like before you talked. I think his idea of a couple of days to process this is a good one. Regardless of what you both decide, the fact that both of you are taking an equal measure of responsibility in making that decision with the other on board is a major step forward ad kudos and good luck to you both. Hopefully that decision is one that both of you can move forward and grow together on. It certainly gives some hope for your futures together if you can get to a point where you sit down and have a discussion on an issue this important and treat others as equals in this journey.

Kimia wrote: »

BUT, as Ellie said, you cannot 'plan' on how you're going to feel, as a woman, having a baby growing inside you. It throws everything out the window, you just cannot promise someone that you will have an abortion if you get pregnant it's ridiculous.

No matter how much he bleated on about being scared of her getting pregnant, he still went ahead and had sex with her.

You can argue that she made a promise, yadda yadda, but if he was a mature, sensible adult male, who has ANY idea about women, he should NEVER have accepted that 'promise' to get an abortion.

I have to say this post actually floored me. What you appear to be saying(and clearly enough too) is that women are more slave to their emotions and hormones and incapable of making rational and objective decisions and keeping previously held promises in the face of them. You add to this idea by saying that if a man has "any idea" about women he should never accept a promise like that, as her being a woman her emotional state and hormones would mean she would not follow through, nor could her promise be trusted. Jesus. I really am floored by that. For the record I don't believe it for a second in most of the women I know except for a percentage who are that capricious. They are clearly to be avoided like the very plague.

fonpokno

Wibbs wrote: »

I have to say this post actually floored me. What you appear to be saying(and clearly enough too) is that women are more slave to their emotions and hormones and incapable of making rational and objective decisions and keeping previously held promises in the face of them. You add to this idea by saying that if a man has "any idea" about women he should never accept a promise like that, as her being a woman her emotional state and hormones would mean she would not follow through, nor could her promise be trusted. Jesus. I really am floored by that. For the record I don't believe it for a second in most of the women I know except for a percentage who are that capricious. They are clearly to be avoided like the very plague.

Agreed. God knows I can be a bit emotional sometimes but god, we're not all that unreasonable. I don't see what is so ridiculous about having a plan to abort should a pregnancy occur. I know that's the plan I have and my boyfriend is perfectly aware of it.

Taltos

My oh and I have the same agreement. Together now 15yrs.
Neither of us want children for varying reasons. Every so often we do revisit our choices but both have agreed that in case of accident there is only one route - ferry across the sea.

She knows that if she changes her mind that is an immediate deal breaker for us and the same goes - if I suddenly decide I want a child she will walk.

It might seem a bit severe - abortion or walk - but those are our choices there is no third option, and so far it has worked for us. Married now 9 yrs and happier than ever.

K-9

Unregist wrote: »

Are there any laws in Ireland around this matter?. The guy was afraid of getting her pregnant but she talked him around. They had made a decision together that they'd have an abortion should pregnancy occur. Then she changes her mind when it does happen and now he's going to have to pay maintenance for a child he specifically said at the beginning he didn't want. Surely, surely he has rights in all this??. This is ridiculous!.

There always is a risk that sex will result in pregnancy and a risk that the woman may have the baby. I think if the law used your type of thinking as a defence, it would open up a whole other can of worms!

The Corinthian

ellie1 wrote: »

Look if he dosent want to rear his child , he doesnt have to.

No, but he'll have to part with a sizeable chunk of his income because someone else wants to. I'd hardly consider than not having to.

Anecdotally, child maintenance appears to be around €80 p.w. in Ireland. This means that if he doesn't want to rear his child he'll still shell out €75k (more if they go to college) to someone who decided for them both on the basis that biologically they carry the child. That's €8,300 per month of pregnancy.

At least he's not in the US. There he'd have to pay 20% - 30% of his gross income.

K-9

The Corinthian wrote: »

No, but he'll have to part with a sizeable chunk of his income because someone else wants to. I'd hardly consider than not having to.

Anecdotally, child maintenance appears to be around €80 p.w. in Ireland. This means that if he doesn't want to rear his child he'll still shell out €75k (more if they go to college) to someone who decided for them both on the basis that biologically they carry the child. That's €8,300 per month of pregnancy.

At least he's not in the US. There he'd have to pay 20% - 30% of his gross income.

What is your alternative? Just walk away?

Say before every one night stand, all intentions regarding pregnancy options be wrote down in a contract and signed?

Kimia

I'm not saying that we're slaves to our emotions and can't be relied on etc.

I'm saying that when you promise to have an abortion, when you're not pregnant, is a lot different to promising to have an abortion, when you are.

OP you sound like you're being very sensible, and in fairness so is he. Best of luck to you both.

ellie1

Agreed. I don't see what is so unreasonable about having a plan to abort should a pregnancy occur. I know that's the plan I have and my boyfriend is perfectly aware of

it.

You really dont know how you will feel until you actually become pregnant.

I have to say this post actually floored me. What you appear to be saying(and clearly enough too) is that women are more slave to their emotions and hormones and incapable of making rational and objective decisions and keeping previously held promises in the face of them. You add to this idea by saying that if a man has "any idea" about women he should never accept a promise like that, as her being a woman her emotional state and hormones would mean she would not follow through, nor could her promise be trusted. Jesus. I really am floored by that. For the record I don't believe it for a second in most of the women I know except for a percentage who are that capricious. They are clearly to be avoided like the very plague.

Are you up off the floor yet?Yes wibbs, women can indeed make rational and objective decisions. However , when a woman is faced with a pregnancy, things called hormones kick in with maternal instinct. You do have life growing inside you. It is very easy for those of us who have not been pregnant or those of us who have not had to make difficult decisions.
Its not car insurance just in case she gets pregnant we will do this. You surely cannot expect women to be held to something that is made before they are carrying life. I am personally shocked by your attitude on this matter as i always held your posts in high regard.

Again, apoligies op for my assumptions on your particular case.

LegacyUser

Hey OP, it may feel like the whole world is against you at the minute but life still goes on. I fell pregnant when I was doing my leaving cert. It was really hard at the time and I was very worried about how life would pan out. I wanted to be a teacher but then I thought I had destroyed every chance I had... I was expecting to fail the LC.

But here I am a few years later working as a teacher and the most beautiful daughter in the world to come home to each and every day to put a smile on my face. I can guarantee you will feel differently about it once you have the baby. I considered adoption but I knew that I had to keep my daughter when she was born... It was without doubt the best decision of my life.

Yes, there were times when it was a real struggle, both financially and emotionally; missed holidays, going out etc. but it was worth it in the end. Don't give up and tell your bf this as well. He will still be able to do his honours degree, whether he supports you or not. Things will work out, just remain positive and in good spirits.

There is no point in arguing now over who's fault was it and who agreed to what, that is just childish, the damage is done to put it bluntly. Its up to the two of ye to be adults and talk things out and begin to plan...which I'm glad to see ye are doing.

Taltos

Lets not attack each others viewpoints - for each individual they are the right ones for them at the time.

OP - the route you are taking is the right one. Take a few days and talk again.
It is a lot for both of you to take in. Please keep in mind though that no matter your choice your relationship will have to change.

1. Keep the baby & stay together- you both face the stresses with that - but hopefully the support of your families
2. Keep the baby and split up - stresses and strains of staying supportive of the growing child.
3. Give up the child - again alot of emotional issues to deal with here - plus the chance that in 18yrs you could have a knock on your door
4. Abort & stay together - you will both have to learn to deal with the inevitable guilt this will bring - will you feel the same way in 5 yrs or will you resent him if you are pressurized into this.
5. Abort and split - again the possible emotional issues. Not guaranteed - but a possibility.

So do what you are doing, take the time to talk it through. Come to a common understanding, whatever your choice - what about next time?

shellyboo

ellie1 wrote: »

You dont know how you will feel until you actually become pregnant. Really.

That is unbelievably patronising.

ellie1 wrote: »

Are you up off the floor yet? Yes wibbs, women can indeed make rational and objective decisions. However, when a woman is faced with a pregnancy, things called hormones kick in with maternal instinct. You do have life growing inside you. It is very easy for those of us who have not been pregnant or those of us who have not had to make difficult decisions.

I think this is absolute rubbish. If that were the case, no woman would ever have a termination.

The Corinthian

K-9 wrote: »

What is your alternative? Just walk away?

If you believe in equality, then both genders should have a right to choose. This is not to say that this choice should be a get out of jail card and come without cost or consequence, as both are equally responsible for the pregnancy, however if only one makes a choice for what follows, then they have to suffer the consequences as they have made the choice alone.

There are two choices. The first is the one to have sex, and both take that. The consequence of this going wrong is an unplanned pregnancy.

However, the choice to keep and raise a child, is a subsequent choice. To deny this would be to pretend that abortion or adoption are not choices - that women are forced to keep their children, which is simply untrue.

So there is a price to the consequences of the first choice and a subsequent price to the second. A man should pay for the first, but not for the second if he has been excluded from it.

LegacyUser

Does he still have to pay maintenance if she said she didnt want it? My Mum refused any money from my Father and it wasnt an issue.

OP you also made the decision 2 years ago when you just met the person, its not as relevant today, things change. I also promised two years ago id never wear ugg boots................but now i find them ever so comfy!

As for getting pregnant while on the pill and using condoms, well that can happen, i fell pregnant last year using condoms and i have infertilitly issues (im 34 and suffer from endo), it can happen even when you dont want it too. Unfortunetly i lost the baby at 3months, i just wanted people to know it can happen even when the odds are against you!

K-9

The Corinthian wrote: »

If you believe in equality, then both genders should have a right to choose. This is not to say that this choice should be a get out of jail card and come without cost or consequence, as both are equally responsible for the pregnancy, however if only one makes a choice for what follows, then they have to suffer the consequences as they have made the choice alone.

There are two choices. The first is the one to have sex, and both take that. The consequence of this going wrong is an unplanned pregnancy.

However, the choice to keep and raise a child, is a subsequent choice. To deny this would be to pretend that abortion or adoption are not choices - that women are forced to keep their children, which is simply untrue.

So there is a price to the consequences of the first choice and a subsequent price to the second. A man should pay for the first, but not for the second if he has been excluded from it.

So how do you include a man who wants an abortion when the mother wants the baby?

ellie1

shellyboo wrote: »

That is unbelievably patronising.

Sorry, I meant a woman really wont know if she will carry through a pregnancy until she becomes pregnant.


I think this is absolute rubbish. If that were the case, no woman would ever have a termination.

Women have abortions for various reasons. Even women having abortions are emotional and upset, recognise their is life inside them but for whatever the reasons cannot carry the pregnacy through. Women often regret their decision as they often make it without thinking it through fully. However, many women dont regret their decision and feel they made the best decision they could make at the time. Some women think rationally and clearly about the whole issue and some women dont. All have added hormones kicking in. I am not putting women down for choosing to have abortions as that is their choice. This is a very delicate issue. Most women have a friend who has had an abortion and most have a friend who has had a baby. It is very difficult to know how one would react unless faced with it.

The Corinthian

K-9 wrote: »

So how do you include a man who wants an abortion when the mother wants the baby?

He legally vacates paternity. No rights, no obligations - just as when a child is adopted.

ellie1 wrote: »

Women have abortions for various reasons. Even women having abortions are emotional and upset, recognise their is life inside them but for whatever the reasons cannot carry the pregnacy through. Women often regret their decision as they often make it without thinking it through fully. However, many women dont regret their decision and feel they made the best decision they could make at the time. Some women think rationally and clearly about the whole issue and some women dont. All have added hormones kicking in. I am not putting women down for choosing to have abortions as that is their choice. This is a very delicate issue. Most women have a friend who has had an abortion and most have a friend who has had a baby. It is very difficult to know how one would react unless faced with it.

All of which ignores the point that was made to you.

ellie1

The Corinthian wrote: »

He legally vacates paternity. No rights, no obligations - just as when a child is adopted.

All of which ignores the point that was made to you.

Sorry, what was the point again and I will attempt to address it.

K-9

The Corinthian wrote: »

He legally vacates paternity. No rights, no obligations - just as when a child is adopted.

But it's not adopted.

Can you see any drawbacks with the above, say, in the one night stand example I pointed out?

LegacyUser

Oh to clear another thing up,I wouldn't be expecting money from him for a child he doesn't want and I wouldn't be forcing him to pay maintenence either.
Also I had to come off the pill as I got a bad infection in my leg which I was on a lot of heavy anti-biotics so we were solely usnig condoms at this point and no I did not secretly plan on getting pregnant and no I don't have any desires deep down to have a baby either as a poster suggested I might have.

The Corinthian

K-9 wrote: »

But it's not adopted.

No, but what is adoption? It is when the biological parents of a child vacate rights and obligations.

Can you see any drawbacks with the above, say, in the one night stand example I pointed out?

I can, in the same way that I could see drawbacks to abolishing Apartheid if I was a white South African. The point of many of the criticisms in this thread against the present system is that it is completely biased and sexist; as such, redressing it will result in drawbacks for those who are presently favoured.

Nonetheless, I have not suggested any get out of jail card for men either. A man may not be responsible for the decision to keep and raise a child, but neither is he absolved from the decision to have sex.

ellie1 wrote: »

Sorry, what was the point again and I will attempt to address it.

No, take it back. You answered it, but it was so obfuscated that I missed it.

Your original claim amounted to one that hormones meant that women cannot be held accountable for their decisions during pregnancy. You've since recanted that somewhat so say that only some are hormonally affected thus.

LegacyUser

Hurtgirlfriend wrote: »

Hi there,
We both talked about if I was to get pregnant and what we'd do,he out right said there's no way he could manage a baby and would want me to have an abortion to which at the time I also agreed so everything was fine but when I realised I was pregnant I felt differently and warmed to the idea.

he then went on how he would have never had sex with me if he knew I was going to have it if I did get pregnant and referred back to the discussion at the very start of our relationship and said that I've now trapped him for life and that all his plans are over cause of me.
(.

I'm sorry, but if your boyfriend didn't get you to sign a legally binding contract, then he hasn't got a leg to stand on.******

******Said with tongue in cheek.

Having a relationship and dealing with people in general is NOT the same as dealing with a bank or an insurance company. There has to be some allowance made for peoples emotions and unexpected events (which as far as I know, usually don't have terms and conditions tacked on at the end.... your boyfriend was quite obviously raised in the Celtic Tiger era!!).
Anybody with half a brain knows that life is likely to change in the blink of an eye, and saying something like 'If you had a baby, my life would be over, and it would be all your fault' really shows the lack of maturity your boyfriend had. I can't believe he had such ridiculous 'terms and conditions'. If he didn't want a baby, he shouldn't have had sex, simple as. And he shouldn't have gotten into a relationship because he's obviously not ready. I haven't read the thread, but I'm hoping for your sake that he's found his backbone and come around to the idea.

ellie1

Your original claim amounted to one that hormones meant that women cannot be held accountable for their decisions during pregnancy. You've since recanted that somewhat so say that only some are hormonally affected thus.

No, I was making a point that decisions made prior to pregnancy may be come affected when pregnant therefore premade plans cannot be expected to be followed.
They are accountable for their decisions during pregnancy. However their decisions may be affected due to extra hormones.

Hope this clears it up for you.!!!!:D

Wibbs

Unregistered wrote: »

I haven't read the thread, but I'm hoping for your sake that he's found his backbone and come around to the idea.

Regardless of opinions on any thread it would be prudent or at least polite to read the whole thread, up to and including what the OP has stated in her last few posts.