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Cannabis - The law doesn't work.

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    #32
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Pedro K wrote: »
    Most people don't, obviously.

    The question I asked is do most drug users?
    If you take all drug users and find out who spends what amount of time strung out, or who does what to just to get their drugs, i wonder what kind of statistics you'd come up with.

    I also wonder how many people have ever just tried cannabis and nothing else, and then how many people regularly smoke cannabis and have never tried or wanted to try something else.
    Pedro if you're interested then maybe check out some of the research on this website:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml

    The website itself is considered 'pro drugs' I suppose, but it cites external research and findings. Dunno personally if its biased or what, but it certainly matches my own experience that most marijuana users don't use other stuff.


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    #33
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    i think people should realise that the war on drugs will never be won, it's one of the largest businesses in the world. why not try a different approach?

    alcohol, cigarettes, and a whole host of stimulants are all legal, it seems illogical that cannabis isn't.

    personally i think all drugs should be legalised, it's not like it's going to open up access that people don't already have, nobody has any problems getting what they want in fact it's much easier for a school kid to purchase drugs than it is for them to purchase alcohol. legalising the drugs would change that.

    why not take the distribution rights out of the hands of criminals and give it to pharmacies. look at the advantages, imagine how much gangland crime would be reduced if they no longer had a large income from drugs? imagine how much better it would be for society if it was regulated, if drugs were no longer laced with poison?

    it would be much better for the government and local businesses to get all the revenue rather than scumbags like it is at the moment. garda resources would be much better spent elsewhere instead of fighting a war that can't be won.


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    #34
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Dave! wrote: »
    Pedro if you're interested then maybe check out some of the research on this website:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml

    The website itself is considered 'pro drugs' I suppose, but it cites external research and findings. Dunno personally if its biased or what, but it certainly matches my own experience that most marijuana users don't use other stuff.

    Thanks Dave! Will have a browse later.


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    #35
    Debunker
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Debunker


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    What do you mean here?

    It's a simple frame of mind that a majority of people seem to have:
    "I've smoked an illegal substance, if i admit it they're going to axe me!".

    Ironically cannabis isn't addictive like other substances (coffee?), but people can still have addictive personalities none the less.


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    #36
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Debunker wrote: »
    It's a simple frame of mind that a majority of people seem to have:
    "I've smoked an illegal substance, if i admit it they're going to axe me!".

    Ironically cannabis isn't addictive like other substances (coffee?), but people can still have addictive personalities none the less.

    What are you on about, Cannabis is extremely addictive. I know plenty of people who's minds have been completely melted by the stuff. It really is a curse.


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    #37
    Debunker
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Debunker


    Denerick wrote: »
    What are you on about, Cannabis is extremely addictive. I know plenty of people who's minds have been completely melted by the stuff. It really is a curse.

    The long term users i know, don't really seem to be "out of it" the way your putting it. You sure they're not doing heavier narcotics? A guy i know gets extremely paranoid while smoking but thats about it.

    As for the addiction, it's just people who take it irresponsibly. Like most substances - don't overindulge it and you won't become an addict. If cannabis is to be legalised you'd probably need people to be educated on the subject more other then just trying to be pro or anti.


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    #38
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    But wouldn't it be fair to say, Denerik, that it is the responsibility of the individual, not the state, to ensure they use narcotics wisely?

    If someone is addicted to something its mostly their own fault. True there might be emotional issues etc, but the still made that choice.


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    #39
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    turgon wrote: »
    But wouldn't it be fair to say, Denerik, that it is the responsibility of the individual, not the state, to ensure they use narcotics wisely?

    If someone is addicted to something its mostly their own fault. True there might be emotional issues etc, but the still made that choice.

    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)


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    #40
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Denerick wrote: »
    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)

    Sorry bud :)

    You did say to restrict it though? Do you think this necessary? Also, do you think it should only be for over 18's?


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    #41
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Denerick wrote: »
    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)

    i think legalizing would lead to greater control over these substances than the way they're distributed presently.


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    #42
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    turgon wrote: »
    Sorry bud :)

    You did say to restrict it though? Do you think this necessary? Also, do you think it should only be for over 18's?

    I'd certainly ideally see it restricted to certain stores in bigger cities. As I said, it would be an absolute disaster for it to be so accessible (As in going down to your corner shop to buy some) And of course it should be for over 18s.

    I think people are talking down the damaging effects of Cannabis here. There is scientific evidence which proves it increases your chances of mental illness, schizophrenia, paranoia etc. It damages memory retention and any other number of mental processes. It is infintely more damaging than smoking a cigarette for example.

    That said, alcohol is also extremely bad for you but we do allow that anyway. Thats more to do with the historical association we have with alcohol.

    I'm a libertarian on most matters, ie, most people are retarded assholes but if they want to mess up their own lives then I've no right stopping them. But nothing annoys me more than people pretending that its not that bad for you.


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    #43
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    I suppose in an ideal world people would have enough responsibility to take things like this seriously and only use it on special occasions. However the way weve seen people take drink Im not so sure.

    I still dont think I would restrict it though. I think if people want to **** up theyre own lives they are free too. Also I think the only demographic having it in big stores might attract is those who only take it now and again. As in those hard into it will find it anyway.


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    #44
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭PipInTipp


    turgon wrote: »
    I think if people want to **** up theyre own lives they are free too. Also I think the only demographic having it in big stores might attract is those who only take it now and again. As in those hard into it will find it anyway.

    Lol....some of the most succesful people out their are or were cannabis users at some point.
    Eg. The guy who came up with fox news, the majority of famous musicians, The guy who came up with apple. Next time your going to use that point....stop and think about what I just said.
    Denerick wrote: »
    I think people are talking down the damaging effects of Cannabis here. There is scientific evidence which proves it increases your chances of mental illness, schizophrenia, paranoia etc. It damages memory retention and any other number of mental processes. It is infintely more damaging than smoking a cigarette for example.
    woo now... Saying that really does sound like cannabis is pretty bad.
    A user may feel paranoid whilst using.
    However!
    To say their is evidence that suggest the cannabis use increases chances of developing schizophernia could be very misleading. However your point is correct to an extent and in fact pushes more for the need of regulation to be put into place.
    How so?
    Their is evidence that brain activity similiar to that seen in patients with schizophrenia, can be seen in those medicating/using the drug. However this is not to say it causes the brain disorder.
    It instead suggest that the possibility of deveolping schiophrenia is raised but to a very very low extent.
    The highest chance of developent is of 6%
    The factors that are needed to reach this increase are
    - Mental illness in other family members.
    - The user is early to late teens - Where the brain is still developing
    - The user is consuming large amounts of cannabis - regularly

    Remove these factors in any order and the chances decrease rapidly.
    Or so I've been lead to believe.

    Regulation would have the ability to restrict those with any of those factors.


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    #45
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    PipInTipp wrote: »
    Lol....some of the most succesful people out their are or were cannabis users at some point.
    Eg. The guy who came up with fox news, the majority of famous musicians, The guy who came up with apple. Next time your going to use that point....stop and think about what I just said.

    Yeah I was referring to abuse, not use.


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    #46
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    PippinTip, I'm not being cheeky, but I really really don't understand what you were trying to say in your post - how does regulation possibly help stem the damage of schizophrenia? Regulation of cigarettes hasn't helped stem the damage from lung cancer for example. The problem is with the drug itself.


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    #47
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭PipInTipp


    Any sort of regulation would help reduce the amount of minors capable of receiving the drug.
    If the drug were to be prescribed it obviously would not be prescribed to anyone with a history of mental illness in that family.
    A set maximum amount legally distributal would have to be introduced.


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    #48
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Denerick wrote: »
    That said, alcohol is also extremely bad for you but we do allow that anyway. Thats more to do with the historical association we have with alcohol.

    Indeed and lots of people on the psych wards are there because of the alcohol. The human race has a historical association with both cannabis and alcohol that stretches back 1000's of years. In 1937 in Ireland one of them was prohibited and this has had the same effect as the prohibition of alcohol that happened in the US a decade earlier. Really the trade in cannabis and alcohol can never be stopped but it should most certainly be taken out of the hands of gangsters who care nothing for quality or what age their customers are.


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    #49
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    A few months ago i was going through a phase of anxiety and seeing as im not a fan of drugs made in a labortory (probably made with cannaboids lol) i decided i will smoke some Cannabis. I was sitting in my garden and before i know it a deep feeling of relaxation came over me. Didnt care less about the past or the future, what only mattered was in the now. I could hear the different birds singing, flowers looked so beautiful, clouds looked amazing with its swirly white and grey colours and a big smile came on my face :). Now im not a "stoner" but i do enjoy a smoke of weed (not hash) every now and then. It doesnt make me paranoid or anything weird just makes me feel good and cheerful (and better at pro evo soccer lol). I think those people who get paranoid have underlying problems. Cannabis, like alcohol, brings out underlying issues that are ignored while sober. Sure most people cant even stand being alone with themselves! We live in a stressful world and a lot of people like to go home after work and wind down - either through alcohol or cannabis or whatever floats their boat. And omg its a brilliant aphrodisiac aswell! ;)

    A mate of mine started off on cannabis, smoking it once a week or so, and now he does it everyday and is on coke aswell. Hes on the coke because he got it off the same dealer who supplied him with marijuana. If it was 'legelised' i doubt this would have happened. I have other mates who are incredibly smart and have been smoking MJ since their childhood. You see wasters smoking MJ no doubt but those guys would be wasters anyway! In my opinion MJ isnt really addictive, i mean i still want to do it again but only because i enjoyed it. I wasnt rushing out the next day looking for some more. Unless you do it everyday you become so used to it that you cant stop. I guarantee most people on this forum drink at least 1 coke/fizzy drink a day - where's the uproar in that? I know people who drink 3 bottles of coca cola a day which is pretty disgusting and unhealthy! And all this other poison in our food. At least Cannabis is natural, why should we ban nature? Where's the crime if we're not hurting another?

    Even its cousin hemp is another amazing plant. It doesnt make you high, in fact it makes you sh1t! Great for paper, textiles, fuel and doesnt take long to grow (3 months... 1 acre would get you 300% more paper than an acre of forest) or need any pesticides either - its a weed!


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    #50
    civildefence
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭civildefence


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    A few months ago i was going through a phase of anxiety and seeing as im not a fan of drugs made in a labortory (probably made with cannaboids lol) i decided i will smoke some Cannabis. I was sitting in my garden and before i know it a deep feeling of relaxation came over me. Didnt care less about the past or the future, what only mattered was in the now. I could hear the different birds singing, flowers looked so beautiful, clouds looked amazing with its swirly white and grey colours and a big smile came on my face :). Now im not a "stoner" but i do enjoy a smoke of weed (not hash) every now and then. It doesnt make me paranoid or anything weird just makes me feel good and cheerful (and better at pro evo soccer lol). I think those people who get paranoid have underlying problems. Cannabis, like alcohol, brings out underlying issues that are ignored while sober. Sure most people cant even stand being alone with themselves! We live in a stressful world and a lot of people like to go home after work and wind down - either through alcohol or cannabis or whatever floats their boat. And omg its a brilliant aphrodisiac aswell! ;)

    A mate of mine started off on cannabis, smoking it once a week or so, and now he does it everyday and is on coke aswell. Hes on the coke because he got it off the same dealers who supply him with marijuana. If it was 'legelised' i doubt this would have been the problem. I have other mates who are incredibly smart and have been smoking MJ since their childhood. You see wasters smoking MJ no doubt but those guys would be wasters anyway! In my opinion MJ isnt really addictive, i mean i still want to do it again but only because i enjoyed it. I wasnt rushing out the next day looking for some more. I guarantee most people on this forum drink at least 1 coke/fizzy drink a day - where's the uproar in that? I know people who drink 3 bottles of coca cola a day which is pretty disgusting and unhealthy! And all this other poison in our food. At least Cannabis is natural, why should we ban nature? Where's the crime if we're not hurting another?

    Even its cousin hemp is another amazing plant. It doesnt make you high, in fact it makes you sh1t! Great for paper, textiles, fuel and doesnt take long or need any pesticides either - its a weed!

    The problem is where it comes from, who supplies it (god knows what else they are selling), what it funds and what it leads to (down the line many people get bored of grass and move on to coke, crack and even smack.


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    #51
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    I have a few interesting documentaries you guys might like to check out, dont take them for gospel or anything. All available free on google video. (im a documentary junkie lol).

    The Union - Business Behind Getting High: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1657827965975839596
    THis is about British Columbia's marijuana industry which turned into a business giant.

    Run From the Cure: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7331006790306000271
    curing cancer and other illnesses through hemp oil

    i had more but google/or copyright owners deleted them.


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    #52
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭PipInTipp


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    I have a few interesting documentaries you guys might like to check out, dont take them for gospel or anything. All available free on google video. (im a documentary junkie lol).

    The Union - Business Behind Getting High: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1657827965975839596
    THis is about British Columbia's marijuana industry which turned into a business giant.

    Run From the Cure: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7331006790306000271
    curing cancer and other illnesses through hemp oil

    i had more but google/or copyright owners deleted them.

    +1
    The union is just mind blowing!


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    #53
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    lotus_eco_elise_1.jpg

    Lotus Elise Hemp Car made entirely out of Cannabis Hemp :D


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