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Cannabis - The law doesn't work.

  • 29-04-2009 10:09PM
    #1
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭


    Before anyone jumps down my throat, riddle me this;
    Do you believe that the current laws on cannabis in Ireland work?
    The laws that are in place are for the benefit of people of Ireland, however they don't, at all.

    This is shown with high cannabis use through out the country with our teens.

    Cannabis is not as terrible as it was once thought and portrayed, eg. Reefer Madness
    It is proven & shown that cannabis is safer than the majority of legal drugs on the Irish market.
    Cannabis does not cause death.

    It's medicinal uses are the key to legalisation in the states - Which is only fair as punishment for simple possesion is usally improsenment - for millions.
    Most are unaware that the medical value of cannabis was introduced to the wester world by an Irish man, William Brooke O'Shaughnessy (October 1808, Limerick, Ireland - January 1889).

    Cannabis is widely available throughout the country - This is not new information.
    It is also exceptionly easy to retrieve.

    Cannabis will not go away legal or illegal.
    However their are many dangers invoked with the current laws in place.

    Contamination - This is of serious concern - Since it is widely a problem.
    Silica, lead, diesal, glass, sand and even cocain are been added to cannabis - It is done as a method to gain profit b growers or dealers.
    - In turn this is seriously damaging health to the majority of users - Teens to adults.

    Cheap, afordable & safe medicine - Cannabis has gained much attention by the ill, as it is been used by many patients with a variety of different illnesses - Ranging from AIDS to Cancer.

    The gateway to harder drugs - This is created by the laws that are in place. How? A cannabis user must make contact with dealers, while some only deal in cannabis many others do not & can essentially suggest other more dangers drugs to the user.

    So their are a few problems in relation to current cannabis laws at present.

    Yes their are dangers with cannabis - of course, however these dangers are much less threathening than those that are socially accepted.

    Cannabis does not need to be smoked - Their are safer methods; such as a vaporiser - Vaporizers remove combustion and so remove the majority of toxins and tar. It can be eaten &/or drank.

    Cannabis believe or not has the most uses compared to any other plant on the globe.
    From bio-Diesal to textiles stronger & softer than cotton.

    So what am I getting at?
    Well since what is currently in place does not work, may I be bold enough to suggest regulation?

    For example - Cannabis usable only by patients that could benefit from it.
    These patients must get a license to have on their possesion if in the case of presciption. And must sign on retrieval. A simple protocol could be patients can not purchase cannabis more than 5 times in one month.
    Licences to sell/use should be tough to get & easy to lose.

    Tax it and create some jobs.

    Any thoughts?

    If you think what I've said is completely stupid please make a suggestion to find something that works!

    Thanks for reading.
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I think a Fine Gael TD suggested legalising it in the Dail recently. Tax it the way cigarettes are.

    Would be great if Ireland did that, would force Northern IReland and therefore the rest of the UK to do the same, then Europe would likely follow suit.


  • #3
    Bob Z
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Bob Z


    im too stoned to reply


    :cool:


  • #4
    zootroid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭zootroid


    I don't think what you said is stupid, simply making something illegal doesn't mean people will stop using it, prohibition in the states being a perfect example.

    But I can't ever see it being legalised, it would be political suicide for a politician to suggest it as he/she would be painted as being soft on drugs.

    But I do think it should be decriminalised. The state spends a lot of resources policing this law, for example someone caught with a small amount going before the courts. Given the current climate this money could be better spent elsewhere, dealing with more serious crimes. But again, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.


  • #5
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    There was a thread on legalising cannabis only a few days ago. There are some very good arguments for legalising it and very little to support maintaining the prohibition, mostly unfounded arguments or dogmatic ideology.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055540409


  • #6
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,406 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Like smoking in general, Cannabis isn't good for you anyway. Might make you feel happy but still no vitamin pill.


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  • #7
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    It isnt against the law, its against the policy of the corporation aka Ireland. There's a difference between lawful and legal. There are ways of getting around their policies to smoking it lawfully. You can do it simply by claim of right. Just thought i'd let you know. Look into "freeman on the land" ;)


  • #8
    Driseog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭Driseog


    I agree, the current policy is outdated and is clearly not working. However legalising it I think is ignoring the problem here. This country has already a serious problem with one legal drug...alcohol, which it seems it is afraid to face up to. I think the question needs to be asked, why do we find it necessary to get out of our heads? What is it in our society that we see this as normal behaviour?
    I know there are plenty of responible drinkers and shmokers which is fine but there are as many if not more that aren't. The myth that cannibis is less harmful is crap because I know a lot of lads that ended up in psych wards with paranoia and other sh1t. I do think its use for medicinal purposes should definetely be explored.
    If the government wants to face up to the problem I think the only way is to come down real hard on the user like the Swedish approach to prostitution. If people were aware how harsh the consequences were going to be I guarantee they'd think twice. Meanwhile if we as a society change our behaviour towards our legal drugs then I wouldn't see a problem in looking into decriminalising it.
    And as far as I know I think Holland are going to go back on their current system.


  • #9
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Driseog wrote: »
    The myth that cannibis is less harmful is crap because I know a lot of lads that ended up in psych wards with paranoia and other sh1t.

    Yes, but I know of a lot more alcoholic parents, and dysfunctional households because of it. I have been previously close to someone who was in an alcoholic family and it wasnt nice at all.

    I think if you want to continue to ban cannabis one you have to come up with reasons not to ban alcohol. I think the latter is worse.

    I started talking to my girlfriend the other day. At first I just goes "do you think cannabis should be legal?" and she started this huff puff against it. Then I just explained it to her about how we could tax it, control it and take criminality out of the cannabis industry. At the end she was at a loss!!

    Edit: good link in my sig about this issue.


  • #10
    Driseog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭Driseog


    turgon wrote: »
    Yes, but I know of a lot more alcoholic parents, and dysfunctional households because of it. I have been previously close to someone who was in an alcoholic family and it wasnt nice at all.

    I think if you want to continue to ban cannabis one you have to come up with reasons not to ban alcohol. I think the latter is worse.

    I started talking to my girlfriend the other day. At first I just goes "do you think cannabis should be legal?" and she started this huff puff against it. Then I just explained it to her about how we could tax it, control it and take criminality out of the cannabis industry. At the end she was at a loss!!

    Edit: good link in my sig about this issue.

    Alcohol is worse. Thats why I believe we are in no fit state to start legalizing one drug when we already have major problems with another. Until we face up to our alcohol abuse culture we shouldn't even think about introducing another drug into the mix.


  • #11
    John_Mc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Decriminalising ALL drugs in Portugal WORKED. Check out a Time magazine report on the subject here


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  • #12
    b12mearse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 283 ✭✭b12mearse


    I don't they should legalise it, its easy enough to get anyway.
    If they did, Ireland would become a sleazy sh**hole like amsterdam.:cool:


  • #13
    John_Mc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    b12mearse wrote: »
    I don't they should legalise it, its easy enough to get anyway.
    If they did, Ireland would become a sleazy sh**hole like amsterdam.:cool:

    So keep the revenue going to the criminals then is it? Yeah right, very sound logic you have there :rolleyes:

    For point #2 you made, see the link I posted above.


  • #14
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Using criminal law to tackle a public health issue is ridiculous, stupid and dangerous, it just leads to more crime and violence.

    IMO the best way to tackle the drug issue is to completely legalise the softer drugs like Cannabis and tax them using that revenue educate the public about health concerns in the same way as tobacco & alcohol. Hard drugs such as Crystal and Heroin should be made available on prescription for addicts through GP's. It should be a goal of the public health system to decrease addiction and to replace dangerous drugs with safer alternatives in order to rehabilitate long term addicts, not to lock them up and criminalise them ensuring they'll never be able to hold down a job and forcing them to resort to real crime i.e. theft.


  • #15
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Driseog has the most important point and the only reason I think it shouldn't be legalised. There is too much of an alcohol problem in Ireland and that has to be sorted out first. Excess seems to be the Irish way and I couldn't trust the general populace with another drug.

    If there could be some sort of widespread education on how to have fun without getting off you face which people listened to, then there might be a hope that legalising anything else could be considered.


  • #16
    sink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    humanji wrote: »
    Driseog has the most important point and the only reason I think it shouldn't be legalised. There is too much of an alcohol problem in Ireland and that has to be sorted out first. Excess seems to be the Irish way and I couldn't trust the general populace with another drug.

    If there could be some sort of widespread education on how to have fun without getting off you face which people listened to, then there might be a hope that legalising anything else could be considered.

    But all the evidence points towards criminalisation and tough penalties having little impact upon the dissemination of drugs and indicates that there will not be an upsurge in drug use due to legalisation. Inversely evidence points towards the fact that it is illegal and taboo seems to be a major attraction to new, particularly younger users as an act of rebellion.


  • #17
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    In any other country, I'd agree. But not Ireland. Not until people cop onto themselves and learn to act responsibly.


  • #18
    Debunker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Debunker


    In any other country, I'd agree. But not Ireland. Not until people cop onto themselves and learn to act responsibly.

    Legalising it would calm down some if it was more socially acceptable to smoke a joint.
    Since; teenagers would find it less rebellious, others might stop advising to their friends to smoke just so they can try and feel accepted, and less power to drug lords/gangs.
    People who smoke could get rehabilitated without worrying about being prosecuted.

    Sincerely doubt Irelands going to go to hell in a basket if we legalised it.


  • #19
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    legalize it, tax it, regulate it. ship the moniez, reduce garda expenditure, reduce crime. easy game.


  • #20
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Debunker wrote: »
    People who smoke could get rehabilitated without worrying about being prosecuted.

    What do you mean here?


  • #21
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    humanji wrote: »
    In any other country, I'd agree. But not Ireland. Not until people cop onto themselves and learn to act responsibly.

    Ah nanny, you'll decide when I'm mature enough will you?


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  • #22
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    I am against the legalising of cannabis, and I do believe it does lead onto other, but not neccessarily harder, drugs.

    I have fallen out with more than one friend over opinions on drugs, but I remember one in particular.

    A friend of mine many years back started smoking cannabis. I opposed straight away. Gave him all the cliched arguments but he continued anyway.

    A few years down the line and the man is on a lot more than cannabis. I happened to run into him on a night out with my friends a while ago and there he was huffing poppers just to get a high. He's now doing anything just to get a buzz.
    The mans brain is melted. He used to be very intelligent and articulate and now he can barely hold a point of conversation without straying off into some random, off the wall, seemingly philosophical topic. He thinks he knows all of the answers to lifes' problems, when seemingly he doesn't know the answer to his own. When you listen to him he just doesn't make sense anymore. It hit me hard because he used to be a good friend of mine.

    The worst thing is, he's not the only one. I personally know quite a few people who have experimented with cannabis, and of these people I know, I can only think of two off the top of my head who didn't try something else eventually.

    I have since become more liberal myself, in that I just let them get on with it because I know it's their choice. I don't let it bother me anymore. But from personal experience I do believe it's a gateway drug.

    John_Mc wrote: »
    Decriminalising ALL drugs in Portugal WORKED. Check out a Time magazine report on the subject here
    John.

    I must admit, that article was a very interesting read.

    I had to laugh at this though,
    The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined
    Of course illegal drug use declined! It's not illegal anymore! :pac:

    However, to the point. Being of Portuguese descent, I have visited the country many many times and been in plenty of areas of the country.
    I have family still living in Lisbon, Guarda and Naves, and family friends still living in Quarteira in the Algarve.
    I also noticed there still seems to be quite a problem with hard drug users in Lisbon (In particular lock-hards, ya know those feckers who tell ya where a parking space is and "direct" you in in return for some cash).

    I would see this law as giving them free reign and being able to walk around with these drugs on them without fear of prosecution.

    I don't know. Maybe I'm just skeptical, but I for one am against the legalisation of cannabis.


  • #23
    John_Mc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Pedro K wrote: »
    I am against the legalising of cannabis, and I do believe it does lead onto other, but not neccessarily harder, drugs.

    I have fallen out with more than one friend over opinions on drugs, but I remember one in particular.

    A friend of mine many years back started smoking cannabis. I opposed straight away. Gave him all the cliched arguments but he continued anyway.

    A few years down the line and the man is on a lot more than cannabis. I happened to run into him on a night out with my friends a while ago and there he was huffing poppers just to get a high. He's now doing anything just to get a buzz.
    The mans brain is melted. He used to be very intelligent and articulate and now he can barely hold a point of conversation without straying off into some random, off the wall, seemingly philosophical topic. He thinks he knows all of the answers to lifes' problems, when seemingly he doesn't know the answer to his own. When you listen to him he just doesn't make sense anymore. It hit me hard because he used to be a good friend of mine.

    The worst thing is, he's not the only one. I personally know quite a few people who have experimented with cannabis, and of these people I know, I can only think of two off the top of my head who didn't try something else eventually.

    I have since become more liberal myself, in that I just let them get on with it because I know it's their choice. I don't let it bother me anymore. But from personal experience I do believe it's a gateway drug.

    In fairness, you were obviously talking to him on a night night out,, after he's just taken poppers and who knows what else. It's hardly a good time to evaluate the effects of drugs! :D

    Pedro K wrote: »

    John.

    I must admit, that article was a very interesting read.

    I had to laugh at this though,


    Of course illegal drug use declined! It's not illegal anymore! :pac:

    However, to the point. Being of Portuguese descent, I have visited the country many many times and been in plenty of areas of the country.
    I have family still living in Lisbon, Guarda and Naves, and family friends still living in Quarteira in the Algarve.
    I also noticed there still seems to be quite a problem with hard drug users in Lisbon (In particular lock-hards, ya know those feckers who tell ya where a parking space is and "direct" you in in return for some cash).

    I would see this law as giving them free reign and being able to walk around with these drugs on them without fear of prosecution.

    I don't know. Maybe I'm just skeptical, but I for one am against the legalisation of cannabis.

    Drug users are always going to be a problem. I think the point of decriminalisation is to accept that people are always going to do it, so offer the support, education & infrastructure so that youngsters never try it and addicts get the help they need to quit.

    I don't think Lock-hards are unique to Lisbon or Portugal either. In the U.s the bums trying washing your windows whilst stopped at traffic lights!


  • #24
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    John_Mc wrote: »
    In fairness, you were obviously talking to him on a night night out,, after he's just taken poppers and who knows what else. It's hardly a good time to evaluate the effects of drugs! :D

    ha! good point. Ah but the mans head always seems to be in the clouds now in general


    Drug users are always going to be a problem. I think the point of decriminalisation is to accept that people are always going to do it, so offer the support, education & infrastructure so that youngsters never try it and addicts get the help they need to quit.

    I don't think Lock-hards are unique to Lisbon or Portugal either. In the U.s the bums trying washing your windows whilst stopped at traffic lights!

    Yeah I do think it might be a good approach to keeping young people off them in the future. But I'm still just a skeptic I guess.

    I also acknowledge there's also always going to be a drug problem, but I guess what I was trying to say is that it seems very visible in Lisbon I know that's not the only city in the world where drug problems are visible.
    After all, I am a dubliner, I see it every day.

    And Yeh, the lock-hards :D

    Where do I start! ha. I know they aren't unique to Portugal or Lisbon, but it was just an example I ran off the top of my head as it's very frequent in Lisbon. Sure we have our own versions at the LUAS ticket machines every day at peak hours, offering "assistance" in return for a few coins.


    Or the Dublin classic, young howaya says to a man as he pulls up witha big dog in his car,

    "'ere mister, gizza fiver and we'll look after your car"

    Driver: "Ah no its fine, the dog will look after it for me!"

    As he walked away, one of the skanger kids shouts after him

    "Mister! Can yer dog put out fires?"


  • #25
    monellia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭monellia


    sink wrote: »
    Using criminal law to tackle a public health issue is ridiculous, stupid and dangerous, it just leads to more crime and violence.

    Exactly. People are saying that legalisation is just ignoring the problem, but people don’t seem to realise how delicate a health issue it is and how dangerous it is to just stamp a law on it. The state’s primary role should be to educate and rehabilitate, and the legislative authorities should have limited powers. The current “blind eye” approach is a really lazy policy which does doing nothing to discourage drug use.

    Furthermore, it’s detrimental to the economy for people to keep buying on the black market. People are going to smoke no matter what, so you might as well use that to the state’s advantage. You’d think that, given the plenitude of money-grabbers in our govt, there’d be more politicians supporting the legalisation of soft drugs. :rolleyes: But of course, health comes first. I’m sort of in two minds about it. On one hand, taking take away the whole “forbidden fruit” factor would hopefully encourage users to exercise moderation, also resulting in less people resorting to crime to get a fix. But on the other hand, if cannabis were to be legalised there’d be a corporation for it which would mean the market would be filled with really tame **** with all sorts of additives making people want to buy more and it could escalate into a real health hazard, like with cigarettes.


  • #26
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedro K wrote: »
    A friend of mine many years back started smoking cannabis. I opposed straight away. Gave him all the cliched arguments but he continued anyway.

    A few years down the line and the man is on a lot more than cannabis. I happened to run into him on a night out with my friends a while ago and there he was huffing poppers just to get a high. He's now doing anything just to get a buzz.
    The mans brain is melted. He used to be very intelligent and articulate and now he can barely hold a point of conversation without straying off into some random, off the wall, seemingly philosophical topic. He thinks he knows all of the answers to lifes' problems, when seemingly he doesn't know the answer to his own. When you listen to him he just doesn't make sense anymore. It hit me hard because he used to be a good friend of mine.

    Some people eat to excess, some drink to excess and some do drugs to excess. Others have addictive personalties - Junkie alcoholics are not uncommon. Alcoholics who have kicked the booze have on occassion succumbed to gambling. It doesn't make sense to run society for the minority who are either afflicted or unable to excercise restraint.


  • #27
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Nodin wrote: »
    Some people eat to excess, some drink to excess and some do drugs to excess. Others have addictive personalties - Junkie alcoholics are not uncommon. Alcoholics who have kicked the booze have on occassion succumbed to gambling. It doesn't make sense to run society for the minority who are either afflicted or unable to excercise restraint.

    Excuse my ignorance on the matter, but when it comes to drugs, is it actually the minority who can't exercise restraint? If so, where are you getting this info from?


  • #28
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedro K wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance on the matter, but when it comes to drugs, is it actually the minority who can't exercise restraint?

    Most people don't spend 7 days a week drunk or stoned as far as I've noticed.....


  • #29
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Nodin wrote: »
    Most people don't spend 7 days a week drunk or stoned as far as I've noticed.....
    Most people don't, obviously.

    The question I asked is do most drug users?
    If you take all drug users and find out who spends what amount of time strung out, or who does what to just to get their drugs, i wonder what kind of statistics you'd come up with.

    I also wonder how many people have ever just tried cannabis and nothing else, and then how many people regularly smoke cannabis and have never tried or wanted to try something else.


  • #30
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Pedro K wrote: »
    I am against the legalising of cannabis, and I do believe it does lead onto other, but not neccessarily harder, drugs.

    Anybody who I know who decided to smoke the Killer Weed actually started out on caffeine before moving onto alcohol and THEN cannabis. Maybe we should make coffee illegal?


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  • #31
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Legalise it, but restrict it to a very few amount of stores. Maybe only in certain pharmacy's in the bigger cities like Dublin and Cork. THe worst possible thing is when it starts becoming available in your local tesco - I for one would crack under that pressure and start smoking it like ordinary cigarettes, and Cannabis really doesn't agree with me (Makes me very paranoid) Also tax the high heaven out of it.

    Prohibition doesn't work anyway, all it is is a boon for organised crime. Take those Euro's out of the scumbags pockets.


  • #32
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Pedro K wrote: »
    Most people don't, obviously.

    The question I asked is do most drug users?
    If you take all drug users and find out who spends what amount of time strung out, or who does what to just to get their drugs, i wonder what kind of statistics you'd come up with.

    I also wonder how many people have ever just tried cannabis and nothing else, and then how many people regularly smoke cannabis and have never tried or wanted to try something else.
    Pedro if you're interested then maybe check out some of the research on this website:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml

    The website itself is considered 'pro drugs' I suppose, but it cites external research and findings. Dunno personally if its biased or what, but it certainly matches my own experience that most marijuana users don't use other stuff.


  • #33
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    i think people should realise that the war on drugs will never be won, it's one of the largest businesses in the world. why not try a different approach?

    alcohol, cigarettes, and a whole host of stimulants are all legal, it seems illogical that cannabis isn't.

    personally i think all drugs should be legalised, it's not like it's going to open up access that people don't already have, nobody has any problems getting what they want in fact it's much easier for a school kid to purchase drugs than it is for them to purchase alcohol. legalising the drugs would change that.

    why not take the distribution rights out of the hands of criminals and give it to pharmacies. look at the advantages, imagine how much gangland crime would be reduced if they no longer had a large income from drugs? imagine how much better it would be for society if it was regulated, if drugs were no longer laced with poison?

    it would be much better for the government and local businesses to get all the revenue rather than scumbags like it is at the moment. garda resources would be much better spent elsewhere instead of fighting a war that can't be won.


  • #34
    Pedro K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Dave! wrote: »
    Pedro if you're interested then maybe check out some of the research on this website:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth13.shtml

    The website itself is considered 'pro drugs' I suppose, but it cites external research and findings. Dunno personally if its biased or what, but it certainly matches my own experience that most marijuana users don't use other stuff.

    Thanks Dave! Will have a browse later.


  • #35
    Debunker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Debunker


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    What do you mean here?

    It's a simple frame of mind that a majority of people seem to have:
    "I've smoked an illegal substance, if i admit it they're going to axe me!".

    Ironically cannabis isn't addictive like other substances (coffee?), but people can still have addictive personalities none the less.


  • #36
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Debunker wrote: »
    It's a simple frame of mind that a majority of people seem to have:
    "I've smoked an illegal substance, if i admit it they're going to axe me!".

    Ironically cannabis isn't addictive like other substances (coffee?), but people can still have addictive personalities none the less.

    What are you on about, Cannabis is extremely addictive. I know plenty of people who's minds have been completely melted by the stuff. It really is a curse.


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  • #37
    Debunker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭Debunker


    Denerick wrote: »
    What are you on about, Cannabis is extremely addictive. I know plenty of people who's minds have been completely melted by the stuff. It really is a curse.

    The long term users i know, don't really seem to be "out of it" the way your putting it. You sure they're not doing heavier narcotics? A guy i know gets extremely paranoid while smoking but thats about it.

    As for the addiction, it's just people who take it irresponsibly. Like most substances - don't overindulge it and you won't become an addict. If cannabis is to be legalised you'd probably need people to be educated on the subject more other then just trying to be pro or anti.


  • #38
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    But wouldn't it be fair to say, Denerik, that it is the responsibility of the individual, not the state, to ensure they use narcotics wisely?

    If someone is addicted to something its mostly their own fault. True there might be emotional issues etc, but the still made that choice.


  • #39
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    turgon wrote: »
    But wouldn't it be fair to say, Denerik, that it is the responsibility of the individual, not the state, to ensure they use narcotics wisely?

    If someone is addicted to something its mostly their own fault. True there might be emotional issues etc, but the still made that choice.

    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)


  • #40
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Denerick wrote: »
    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)

    Sorry bud :)

    You did say to restrict it though? Do you think this necessary? Also, do you think it should only be for over 18's?


  • #41
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Denerick wrote: »
    I never said otherwise in fairness. Read my post on the top of this page. I just think its bad stuff, from experience, and best to stay away from it (NOT that I'd force others stay away from it)

    i think legalizing would lead to greater control over these substances than the way they're distributed presently.


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  • #42
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    turgon wrote: »
    Sorry bud :)

    You did say to restrict it though? Do you think this necessary? Also, do you think it should only be for over 18's?

    I'd certainly ideally see it restricted to certain stores in bigger cities. As I said, it would be an absolute disaster for it to be so accessible (As in going down to your corner shop to buy some) And of course it should be for over 18s.

    I think people are talking down the damaging effects of Cannabis here. There is scientific evidence which proves it increases your chances of mental illness, schizophrenia, paranoia etc. It damages memory retention and any other number of mental processes. It is infintely more damaging than smoking a cigarette for example.

    That said, alcohol is also extremely bad for you but we do allow that anyway. Thats more to do with the historical association we have with alcohol.

    I'm a libertarian on most matters, ie, most people are retarded assholes but if they want to mess up their own lives then I've no right stopping them. But nothing annoys me more than people pretending that its not that bad for you.


  • #43
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    I suppose in an ideal world people would have enough responsibility to take things like this seriously and only use it on special occasions. However the way weve seen people take drink Im not so sure.

    I still dont think I would restrict it though. I think if people want to **** up theyre own lives they are free too. Also I think the only demographic having it in big stores might attract is those who only take it now and again. As in those hard into it will find it anyway.


  • #44
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭PipInTipp


    turgon wrote: »
    I think if people want to **** up theyre own lives they are free too. Also I think the only demographic having it in big stores might attract is those who only take it now and again. As in those hard into it will find it anyway.

    Lol....some of the most succesful people out their are or were cannabis users at some point.
    Eg. The guy who came up with fox news, the majority of famous musicians, The guy who came up with apple. Next time your going to use that point....stop and think about what I just said.
    Denerick wrote: »
    I think people are talking down the damaging effects of Cannabis here. There is scientific evidence which proves it increases your chances of mental illness, schizophrenia, paranoia etc. It damages memory retention and any other number of mental processes. It is infintely more damaging than smoking a cigarette for example.
    woo now... Saying that really does sound like cannabis is pretty bad.
    A user may feel paranoid whilst using.
    However!
    To say their is evidence that suggest the cannabis use increases chances of developing schizophernia could be very misleading. However your point is correct to an extent and in fact pushes more for the need of regulation to be put into place.
    How so?
    Their is evidence that brain activity similiar to that seen in patients with schizophrenia, can be seen in those medicating/using the drug. However this is not to say it causes the brain disorder.
    It instead suggest that the possibility of deveolping schiophrenia is raised but to a very very low extent.
    The highest chance of developent is of 6%
    The factors that are needed to reach this increase are
    - Mental illness in other family members.
    - The user is early to late teens - Where the brain is still developing
    - The user is consuming large amounts of cannabis - regularly

    Remove these factors in any order and the chances decrease rapidly.
    Or so I've been lead to believe.

    Regulation would have the ability to restrict those with any of those factors.


  • #45
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    PipInTipp wrote: »
    Lol....some of the most succesful people out their are or were cannabis users at some point.
    Eg. The guy who came up with fox news, the majority of famous musicians, The guy who came up with apple. Next time your going to use that point....stop and think about what I just said.

    Yeah I was referring to abuse, not use.


  • #46
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    PippinTip, I'm not being cheeky, but I really really don't understand what you were trying to say in your post - how does regulation possibly help stem the damage of schizophrenia? Regulation of cigarettes hasn't helped stem the damage from lung cancer for example. The problem is with the drug itself.


  • #47
    PipInTipp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭PipInTipp


    Any sort of regulation would help reduce the amount of minors capable of receiving the drug.
    If the drug were to be prescribed it obviously would not be prescribed to anyone with a history of mental illness in that family.
    A set maximum amount legally distributal would have to be introduced.


  • #48
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    Denerick wrote: »
    That said, alcohol is also extremely bad for you but we do allow that anyway. Thats more to do with the historical association we have with alcohol.

    Indeed and lots of people on the psych wards are there because of the alcohol. The human race has a historical association with both cannabis and alcohol that stretches back 1000's of years. In 1937 in Ireland one of them was prohibited and this has had the same effect as the prohibition of alcohol that happened in the US a decade earlier. Really the trade in cannabis and alcohol can never be stopped but it should most certainly be taken out of the hands of gangsters who care nothing for quality or what age their customers are.


  • #49
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    A few months ago i was going through a phase of anxiety and seeing as im not a fan of drugs made in a labortory (probably made with cannaboids lol) i decided i will smoke some Cannabis. I was sitting in my garden and before i know it a deep feeling of relaxation came over me. Didnt care less about the past or the future, what only mattered was in the now. I could hear the different birds singing, flowers looked so beautiful, clouds looked amazing with its swirly white and grey colours and a big smile came on my face :). Now im not a "stoner" but i do enjoy a smoke of weed (not hash) every now and then. It doesnt make me paranoid or anything weird just makes me feel good and cheerful (and better at pro evo soccer lol). I think those people who get paranoid have underlying problems. Cannabis, like alcohol, brings out underlying issues that are ignored while sober. Sure most people cant even stand being alone with themselves! We live in a stressful world and a lot of people like to go home after work and wind down - either through alcohol or cannabis or whatever floats their boat. And omg its a brilliant aphrodisiac aswell! ;)

    A mate of mine started off on cannabis, smoking it once a week or so, and now he does it everyday and is on coke aswell. Hes on the coke because he got it off the same dealer who supplied him with marijuana. If it was 'legelised' i doubt this would have happened. I have other mates who are incredibly smart and have been smoking MJ since their childhood. You see wasters smoking MJ no doubt but those guys would be wasters anyway! In my opinion MJ isnt really addictive, i mean i still want to do it again but only because i enjoyed it. I wasnt rushing out the next day looking for some more. Unless you do it everyday you become so used to it that you cant stop. I guarantee most people on this forum drink at least 1 coke/fizzy drink a day - where's the uproar in that? I know people who drink 3 bottles of coca cola a day which is pretty disgusting and unhealthy! And all this other poison in our food. At least Cannabis is natural, why should we ban nature? Where's the crime if we're not hurting another?

    Even its cousin hemp is another amazing plant. It doesnt make you high, in fact it makes you sh1t! Great for paper, textiles, fuel and doesnt take long to grow (3 months... 1 acre would get you 300% more paper than an acre of forest) or need any pesticides either - its a weed!


  • #50
    civildefence
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 474 ✭✭civildefence


    Gu3rr1lla wrote: »
    A few months ago i was going through a phase of anxiety and seeing as im not a fan of drugs made in a labortory (probably made with cannaboids lol) i decided i will smoke some Cannabis. I was sitting in my garden and before i know it a deep feeling of relaxation came over me. Didnt care less about the past or the future, what only mattered was in the now. I could hear the different birds singing, flowers looked so beautiful, clouds looked amazing with its swirly white and grey colours and a big smile came on my face :). Now im not a "stoner" but i do enjoy a smoke of weed (not hash) every now and then. It doesnt make me paranoid or anything weird just makes me feel good and cheerful (and better at pro evo soccer lol). I think those people who get paranoid have underlying problems. Cannabis, like alcohol, brings out underlying issues that are ignored while sober. Sure most people cant even stand being alone with themselves! We live in a stressful world and a lot of people like to go home after work and wind down - either through alcohol or cannabis or whatever floats their boat. And omg its a brilliant aphrodisiac aswell! ;)

    A mate of mine started off on cannabis, smoking it once a week or so, and now he does it everyday and is on coke aswell. Hes on the coke because he got it off the same dealers who supply him with marijuana. If it was 'legelised' i doubt this would have been the problem. I have other mates who are incredibly smart and have been smoking MJ since their childhood. You see wasters smoking MJ no doubt but those guys would be wasters anyway! In my opinion MJ isnt really addictive, i mean i still want to do it again but only because i enjoyed it. I wasnt rushing out the next day looking for some more. I guarantee most people on this forum drink at least 1 coke/fizzy drink a day - where's the uproar in that? I know people who drink 3 bottles of coca cola a day which is pretty disgusting and unhealthy! And all this other poison in our food. At least Cannabis is natural, why should we ban nature? Where's the crime if we're not hurting another?

    Even its cousin hemp is another amazing plant. It doesnt make you high, in fact it makes you sh1t! Great for paper, textiles, fuel and doesnt take long or need any pesticides either - its a weed!

    The problem is where it comes from, who supplies it (god knows what else they are selling), what it funds and what it leads to (down the line many people get bored of grass and move on to coke, crack and even smack.


  • #51
    Gu3rr1lla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Gu3rr1lla


    I have a few interesting documentaries you guys might like to check out, dont take them for gospel or anything. All available free on google video. (im a documentary junkie lol).

    The Union - Business Behind Getting High: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1657827965975839596
    THis is about British Columbia's marijuana industry which turned into a business giant.

    Run From the Cure: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7331006790306000271
    curing cancer and other illnesses through hemp oil

    i had more but google/or copyright owners deleted them.


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