Johnny Sexton

danthefan

I'm willing to bet you have no idea how hard Sexton works on his kicking.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Sexton played in an 'A' game this year. Was it not the 2007 6Ns he was injured for? I seem to remember quite a few posters (Humphreys and/or Keatley fans) annoyed that he still seemed to be in Declan Kidney's plans despite not getting too much time with Leinster. TOL & O'Gara were with the Irish kicking coach - and that is why it struck me that of all the people who needed to practice their kicking and needed some coaching, it was Sexton.

He was in the original squad alright, but I'm pretty sure he was injured. I remember thinking he might be on the bench at one point but then thought he wasn't available. I could be mixing it up though.

You can't extrapolate how much an individual works on his kicking, or indeed any facet of his game, from one bloody article. You have absolutely no idea why Sexton wasn't there. Stop harping on about Sexton's supposed lack of work ethic, its getting tiresome and you have no basis for it.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

He was in the original squad alright, but I'm pretty sure he was injured. I remember thinking he might be on the bench at one point but then thought he wasn't available. I could be mixing it up though.

I don't think Sexton was injured during this seasons 6N. Last season he broke his thumb at the end of January so missed a couple of months (including the 6N, though he wouldn't have been involved anyway).

Podge_irl wrote:

You can't extrapolate how much an individual works on his kicking, or indeed any facet of his game, from one bloody article. You have absolutely no idea why Sexton wasn't there. Stop harping on about Sexton's supposed lack of work ethic, its getting tiresome and you have no basis for it.

Well said.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

I don't think Sexton was injured during this seasons 6N. Last season he broke his thumb at the end of January so missed a couple of months (including the 6N, though he wouldn't have been involved anyway).

Right so. Once more I appear to be talking bollocks - its a growing trend.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

He was in the original squad alright, but I'm pretty sure he was injured. I remember thinking he might be on the bench at one point but then thought he wasn't available. I could be mixing it up though.

You can't extrapolate how much an individual works on his kicking, or indeed any facet of his game, from one bloody article. You have absolutely no idea why Sexton wasn't there. Stop harping on about Sexton's supposed lack of work ethic, its getting tiresome and you have no basis for it.

I think you are mixing him up with being injured for the '08 6Ns when he was having a fairly good run in Leinster. He was fine for this years 6Ns.

Funny you should mention work ethic - there is an interview with Paul O'Connell in the Star magazine (not too sure when - came across it waiting for a Chinese) who said that he learned his work ethic and discipline from swimming as a 10-12 year old, when he had to get up at 4am in the morning and train on Sat & Sun. I read a similar interview about Sexton, who said he just dossed and played golf when all his mates did weights etc. when he was 17/18 which was a slight regret, but he was glad he played golf at this stage. So its more than one article involved here wondering about his work ethic. Jonny Wilkinson used to practice Xmas Day. Tomas O'Leary didn't need to practice his kicking on his day off. But he took an opportunity to improve a facet of his game.

This is a thread on Johnny Sexton. There is a lot of speculation about him as a player - surely it is ok to question his work ethic? Maybe someone will respond and say he usually spends an hour every day practicising his kicking with a kicking coach!

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Funny you should mention work ethic - there is an interview with Paul O'Connell in the Star magazine (not too sure when - came across it waiting for a Chinese) who said that he learned his work ethic and discipline from swimming as a 10-12 year old, when he had to get up at 4am in the morning and train on Sat & Sun. I read a similar interview about Sexton, who said he just dossed and played golf when all his mates did weights etc. when he was 17/18 which was a slight regret, but he was glad he played golf at this stage. So its more than one article involved here wondering about his work ethic. Jonny Wilkinson used to practice Xmas Day. Tomas O'Leary didn't need to practice his kicking on his day off. But he took an opportunity to improve a facet of his game.

This is a thread on Johnny Sexton. There is a lot of speculation about him as a player - surely it is ok to question his work ethic? Maybe someone will respond and say he usually spends an hour every day practicising his kicking with a kicking coach!

Good lord, I'm having deja vú. You brought that article up last time too. It asked him if he had any regrets, and he said he regretted not doing more weights in school but that he is catching up now. So you're now basing your argument on the fact that as a teenager in school he wasn't spending all his time devoted to rugby. A teenager. More to the point, he is now correcting that "mistake".

He is a bloody fly-half. Do you honestly think that he doesn't spend time practicing his kicking?

NotWormBoy

So, we still have no idea how long he spends training at his kicking.

Just because he apparently played golf instead of staying in the gym and doing weights 6 or so years ago doesn't tell us squat about his mental state at the moment, or the time he spends at kicking practise now.

Its ok to speculate about his work ethic, anyone can speculate about anything they want, but it would be better to come up with some concrete information about him and his training habits before jumping to what appears to be (thus far) a fairly flimsy conclusion.

It could well be that he's a bit of a dosser, and it wouldn't be entirely surprising, but we have little to indicate it thus far, that I've seen here yet.

Chucky the tree

thehighground wrote: »

I think you are mixing him up with being injured for the '08 6Ns when he was having a fairly good run in Leinster. He was fine for this years 6Ns.

Funny you should mention work ethic - there is an interview with Paul O'Connell in the Star magazine (not too sure when - came across it waiting for a Chinese) who said that he learned his work ethic and discipline from swimming as a 10-12 year old, when he had to get up at 4am in the morning and train on Sat & Sun. I read a similar interview about Sexton, who said he just dossed and played golf when all his mates did weights etc. when he was 17/18 which was a slight regret, but he was glad he played golf at this stage. So its more than one article involved here wondering about his work ethic. Jonny Wilkinson used to practice Xmas Day. Tomas O'Leary didn't need to practice his kicking on his day off. But he took an opportunity to improve a facet of his game.

This is a thread on Johnny Sexton. There is a lot of speculation about him as a player - surely it is ok to question his work ethic? Maybe someone will respond and say he usually spends an hour every day practicising his kicking with a kicking coach!

Didnt ROG say that he only realised how important putting in extra hours practice in was after he meet JW on the lions tour of Austrailia? He was 25 then so I'm sure we can all forgive Sexton for noting putting in the extra hours when he was 17.

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

Good lord, I'm having deja vú. You brought that article up last time too. It asked him if he had any regrets, and he said he regretted not doing more weights in school but that he is catching up now. So you're now basing your argument on the fact that as a teenager in school he wasn't spending all his time devoted to rugby. A teenager. More to the point, he is now correcting that "mistake".

He is a bloody fly-half. Do you honestly think that he doesn't spend time practicing his kicking?

If you read what I wrote, you will see I mentioned that I've just read an article (this evening) in which Paul O'Connell talks about work ethic and preparation. He said he learned his work ethic & and professionalism as a 12 year old - basically a child. Sexton hadn't cottoned on yet in his late teens.

He is a 23 year-old-fly half, 24 in July (according to wiki - and by the way, according to wiki he was born in Kerry - that couldn't be true, is it?). Last year his place kicking was terrible (when he did kick).

He has a lot of work to do yet.

thehighground

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Didnt ROG say that he only realised how important putting in extra hours practice in was after he meet JW on the lions tour of Austrailia? He was 25 then so I'm sure we can all forgive Sexton for noting putting in the extra hours when he was 17.

He did say that - that was eight years ago at the beginning of professionalism in Ireland. Presumably Sexton has read Wilkinson's biography, if not O'Gara's and could have found out that you need to practice a lot if you want to be an OH.

Think about it as well, O'Gara (even though he was behind Humphreys in the Ireland set-up) was going on a Lions Tour at Sexton's age who has yet to be capped even though we are in dire need of a back-up for O'Gara.

[Jackass]

I'll be the first to admit that Sextons place kicking was the reason why I thought he would struggle to ever make the step up to international rugby.

But like the rest of us, I hadn't seen the guy take many kicks this season and I'm not sure he took ANY last season for Leinster, up until the Munster game....and my god did he deliver!! And against Scarlets, not only was his kicking good, it was superb!!

So it's clear that his place kicking has taken A LOT of work and more importantly, his composure and self belief has too....the kicks against Munster were phenominal considering the pressure, even slotting one from the touch line almost and missing a conversion from the far touchline by a whisker.

He has now PROVEN his kicking credentials - it's his consistancy and track record he has to build now, and as a backline operator, I don't think there was ever any doubt about his ability - he's absolutely class with ball in hand. He is a simular style distributor than RO'G, and RO'G is excellent at it, but I think Sexton is already better there...Sexton is light years ahead in the physicality and defensive stakes, as a running threat he's well ahead...his tactical kicking game was always under rated I felt, but he's still not the class of O'Gara and his place kicking doesn't even equate to O'Garas track record.

Give him another season, especially one as first choice out half with Leinster, and I think the 6 nations after next he'll be well past an aging O'Gara while Sexton comes into his prime. I'd say O'Gara has one more season as first choice 10 for Ireland, but he will be under pressure for that season.

Amazotheamazing

thehighground wrote: »

He is a 23 year-old-fly half, 24 in July (according to wiki - and by the way, according to wiki he was born in Kerry - that couldn't be true, is it?). Last year his place kicking was terrible (when he did kick).

His father is from Listowel, his uncle is the former International and (more importantly) Garryowen legend, Willie Sexton.

His kicking is/was weak, but so was O'Gara's at the same age, he often had bad days, as did David Humphreys, at the same age. It's a skill that needs years to get right, especially if you come through the shambolic Irish schools system.

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

His father is from Listowel, his uncle is the former International and (more importantly) Garryowen legend, Willie Sexton.

I knew that (as well as Billy Keane (journalist), son of JB Keane is his Godfather. I didn't realise Sexton was born in Kerry though. That makes him a Meinster

His kicking is/was weak, but so was O'Gara's at the same age, he often had bad days, as did David Humphreys, at the same age. It's a skill that needs years to get right, especially if you come through the shambolic Irish schools system.

I just hope he has a good coach.

Chucky the tree

thehighground wrote: »

He did say that - that was eight years ago at the beginning of professionalism in Ireland. Presumably Sexton has read Wilkinson's biography, if not O'Gara's and could have found out that you need to practice a lot if you want to be an OH.

Think about it as well, O'Gara (even though he was behind Humphreys in the Ireland set-up) was going on a Lions Tour at Sexton's age who has yet to be capped even though we are in dire need of a back-up for O'Gara.

He would of been 20 when JW book was released and ROG's was released in 2008 so unless he had the ability to time travel it's a bit much expecting him to pick up those extra hints and tips at 17.

thehighground

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He would of been 20 when JW book was released and ROG's was released in 2008 so unless he had the ability to time travel it's a bit much expecting him to pick up those extra hints and tips at 17.

Thats the whole point of the post - is Sexton discliplined and enough, got it in the head to really stick at it to reach the top. There are lots of also rans around like Jeremy Staunton who were all probably more naturally talented than O'Gara but who didn't make it as an OH. How come we find it so hard to produce OHs? Look at England.

Surely when Sexton made it into the Leinster Academy/ playing underage for Ireland, part of their education would have been talks etc. from people like O'Gara, Contempomi, etc. Even BOD or his clubmate Denis Hickie, I'm sure would probably have commented at how much practice Wilkinson (& O'Gara) would do. Would Sexton not have access to coaching staff from the Leinster branch from the age of 17/18 so he would be aware of what had to be done?

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

Surely when Sexton made it into the Leinster Academy/ playing underage for Ireland, part of their education would have been talks etc. from people like O'Gara, Contempomi, etc. Even BOD or his clubmate Denis Hickie, I'm sure would probably have commented at how much practice Wilkinson (& O'Gara) would do. Would Sexton not have access to coaching staff from the Leinster branch from the age of 17/18 so he would be aware of what had to be done?

When he was in school he would have had his school coaching staff I imagine. When he joined Leinster he would have been expected to reach certain standards and would have been advised what kind of work was needed by the Leinster coaching staff. You are again implying he doesn't/didn't put in the requisite work while at Leinster with absolutely no basis for it.

is Sexton discliplined and enough, got it in the head to really stick at it to reach the top.

I don't see any reason to doubt that he does. He signed a contract extension earlier in the year when he wasn't getting much of a look in because he was determined to make it at Leinster and he's well on the way to doing that.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

This is what I don't understand about Sexton though ... it was reported in the Irish Times that ROG and Tomas O'Leary were up in Croke Park (on their day off from the Irish squad), practicising place kicking. Why wasn't Sexton there as well?

Does Sexton (or any of them) have the dedication and discipline to really put the hours in?

Maybe's he's so good he doesn't need to practice?

We have no idea why he didn't go.

thehighground wrote: »

Thats the whole point of the post - is Sexton discliplined and enough, got it in the head to really stick at it to reach the top. There are lots of also rans around like Jeremy Staunton who were all probably more naturally talented than O'Gara but who didn't make it as an OH. How come we find it so hard to produce OHs? Look at England.

What a lot of people forget is how mentally weak O'Gara can be. He's not an automaton. No-one is.

Discipline's just a word, and one that's given an artificial value - Maradona was the best player in the world without discipline, and would probably have never had the passion that made him so good without it.

And the reason we struggle to produce OH's is that we've fúck all teams. Ronan O'Gara has played for Munster for 10 years or so, and has kept a rake of lads out of the team - maybe a Hickey, Staunton or whatever would have been better, but the spot was monopolised. England's got loads more clubs.

Surely when Sexton made it into the Leinster Academy/ playing underage for Ireland, part of their education would have been talks etc. from people like O'Gara, Contempomi, etc. Even BOD or his clubmate Denis Hickie, I'm sure would probably have commented at how much practice Wilkinson (& O'Gara) would do. Would Sexton not have access to coaching staff from the Leinster branch from the age of 17/18 so he would be aware of what had to be done?

Sure how do we know how much practice he does or doesn't do?

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

When he was in school he would have had his school coaching staff I imagine. When he joined Leinster he would have been expected to reach certain standards and would have been advised what kind of work was needed by the Leinster coaching staff. You are again implying he doesn't/didn't put in the requisite work while at Leinster with absolutely no basis for it.

Surely the fact that he wasn't taking in the kicks for Leinster, even when playing OH and even the dogs in the street knows that the Irish team needs an OH who can kick first of all. We can manage if they can't tackle, we can manage if they can't make a break etc. but we can't manage if they can't kick the points that are offered.

So, to be clear - the reason why I'm wondering about this here is because it is a very key feather in his cap that happens to be tedious and boring on your own, and he hopefully is getting to grips with it now.

I don't see any reason to doubt that he does. He signed a contract extension earlier in the year when he wasn't getting much of a look in because he was determined to make it at Leinster and he's well on the way to doing that.

He only signed a one year extension. Someone was doubtful - either Leinster Rugby on his ability, dedication, the way he is training, or he is unhappy with his contract in Leinster and how they are treating him.

Bottom line, he needs to sort his kicking out pronto.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

He only signed a one year extension. Someone was doubtful - either Leinster Rugby on his ability, dedication, the way he is training, or he is unhappy with his contract in Leinster and how they are treating him.

Bottom line, he needs to sort his kicking out pronto.

He signed a one year extension during the summer. He signed a two-year contract at some point this year. I'm reasonably sure it was him who would only sign for a year, not LR who wouldn't give him longer on a contract.

Surely the fact that he wasn't taking in the kicks for Leinster, even when playing OH and even the dogs in the street knows that the Irish team needs an OH who can kick first of all. We can manage if they can't tackle, we can manage if they can't make a break etc. but we can't manage if they can't kick the points that are offered.

He wasn't taking the kicks because Contepomi is/was better at it, which is not much of a slight considering he was pretty damn good at it. And Ireland most certainly don't need an OH who can kick first of all. An OH who releases the backline and can play a proper tactical game is at least as important, both things Sexton does well. He can work on the kicking. However goal kicking is not really something that is going to improve without doing it in a game situation. Sexton will improve when he is kicking regularly for Leinster. You can be damn sure that if Munster had an able kicker in their team back when ROG was first starting and had several mares that they would have taken over (and Munster might have won the HEC years ago!). It's most likely to ROG's ultimate benefit that that didn't happen, but Sexton will overcome this particular problem. He is clearly capable of goal-kicking well as he has done it on several occasions. The consistency will come with game time. You seem to be under the impression that its simply cause he doesn't work hard enough on it, which I highly doubt is the situation.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Maybe's he's so good he doesn't need to practice?

That isn't funny - so I presume you are trying to wind me up

What a lot of people forget is how mentally weak O'Gara can be. He's not an automaton. No-one is.

The amount of critisim he gets, and still performs at all is amazing. For instance - last week's headline in the Indo - O'Gara is a lout! (about offending the Queen). Not to mention the no of threads on message boards. I think he is mentally quite strong - even when he was having a shocker against England, he still had the confidence to get the one that won the match.

Discipline's just a word, and one that's given an artificial value - Maradona was the best player in the world without discipline, and would probably have never had the passion that made him so good without it.

Maradone (and a few others) have natural talent. Problem is most other people have to work really hard at it. You ask/read about any top sportsperson - being disciplined about practice, diet etc. is what makes them the sports people they are. And lack of discipline is what makes the most natural players fail.

And the reason we struggle to produce OH's is that we've fúck all teams. Ronan O'Gara has played for Munster for 10 years or so, and has kept a rake of lads out of the team - maybe a Hickey, Staunton or whatever would have been better, but the spot was monopolised. England's got loads more clubs.

I really don't understand what your logic is here.

England has a rake of teams - still doesn't have any OHs good enough for the Lions at the moment, although plenty who have a bit more than Sexton has.

Munster have been able to develop two decent enough OHs - and both want to stay at Munster, so how exactly has O'Gara stopped the OH assembly line?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

That isn't funny - so I presume you are trying to wind me up

No. Merely trying to point out that you're making groundless assumptions. You don't know why he didn't go training when O'Gara and O'Leary did.

The amount of critisim he gets, and still performs at all is amazing. For instance - last week's headline in the Indo - O'Gara is a lout! (about offending the Queen). Not to mention the no of threads on message boards. I think he is mentally quite strong - even when he was having a shocker against England, he still had the confidence to get the one that won the match.

I don't give a fcuk about what he did or didn't do when he met the English queen.

He's a pro rugby player, of course he's mentally strong, but he's also extraordinarily capable of fcuking up. The England game you cite is one where he almost cost Ireland that game. He had a bit of a fcuk up against Italy too, and the Leinster semi-final was a debacle for him. I don't need to list his many achievements, I'm merely saying that calling O'Gara mentally strong and then dismissing Sexton or anyone else as weak is silly.

Maradone (and a few others) have natural talent. Problem is most other people have to work really hard at it. You ask/read about any top sportsperson - being disciplined about practice, diet etc. is what makes them the sports people they are. And lack of discipline is what makes the most natural players fail.

And practive makes perfect. We don't know how much people do.

I really don't understand what your logic is here.

England has a rake of teams - still doesn't have any OHs good enough for the Lions at the moment, although plenty who have a bit more than Sexton has.

You're smarter than that, dude, come on.

The more teams you have, the more out-halves get regular rugby experience. That's crucial for out-half development.

England right now have Mike Catt (old but decent), Danny Cipriani, Wilkinson, Hodgson, Flood, Goode and then guys like Geraghty etc.

That's significantly more than O'Gara and Humph and Sexton. As well as Keatley whose not ready for Ireland yet.

Munster have been able to develop two decent enough OHs - and both want to stay at Munster, so how exactly has O'Gara stopped the OH assembly line?

Please don't tell me you mean Paul Warwick who joined a couple of seasons ago and is 28? He might have improved at Munster but in absolutely no way did you develop him. That's not a criticism btw.

Staunton is an example of someone whose not made it. Leinster have to wonder what the deal is with Andy Dunne, Hickey and a whole host of others.

One advantage of the expanded A games is that there'll be 3 more Irish out-halves getting regular game time.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

No. Merely trying to point out that you're making groundless assumptions. You don't know why he didn't go training when O'Gara and O'Leary did.

Making groundless assumptions that his kicking is suspect born out by the fact that Contempomi did all the kicking?

I don't give a fcuk about what he did or didn't do when he met the English queen.

You mightn't care what he did or didn't do. Would you care if you were called a Lout in a national newspaper?

He's a pro rugby player, of course he's mentally strong, but he's also extraordinarily capable of fcuking up. The England game you cite is one where he almost cost Ireland that game. He had a bit of a fcuk up against Italy too, and the Leinster semi-final was a debacle for him. I don't need to list his many achievements, I'm merely saying that calling O'Gara mentally strong and then dismissing Sexton or anyone else as weak is silly.

You just said O'Gara was mentally fragile. Now you are saying he is mentally strong. Make up your mind. I can't remember why you brought O'Gara's mental fragility into it as we are discussing/comparing his work ethic and Johnny Sextons.

And practive makes perfect. We don't know how much people do.

Well, we could guess at not enough maybe (when looking at the results). Maybe Contempomi doesn't have to do anything because he is naturally talented. O'Gara seems to have to do a lot of extra stuff (and he does).

You're smarter than that, dude, come on.

I still don't understand what you were getting at.

The more teams you have, the more out-halves get regular rugby experience. That's crucial for out-half development.

England right now have Mike Catt (old but decent), Danny Cipriani, Wilkinson, Hodgson, Flood, Goode and then guys like Geraghty etc.

That's significantly more than O'Gara and Humph and Sexton. As well as Keatley whose not ready for Ireland yet.

OK ... but ...

Please don't tell me you mean Paul Warwick who joined a couple of seasons ago and is 28? He might have improved at Munster but in absolutely no way did you develop him. That's not a criticism btw.

What is the difference between developing and improving. He came to Munster as a back-up squad member. He is now a starter for Munster.

Staunton is an example of someone whose not made it. Leinster have to wonder what the deal is with Andy Dunne, Hickey and a whole host of others.

One advantage of the expanded A games is that there'll be 3 more Irish out-halves getting regular game time.

You haven't answered the question as to how O'Gara has blocked the assembly line of Irish OHs (which you claimed he did), bearing in mind that Munster have two fairly top-notch ones.

freshtodeath

tbf, since when has his name been Johnny?

John_C

I read in my tea leaves that when he was in transition year Sexton didn't always do his homework and treated the whole thing like a doss year, even though some of the other boys realised that putting the extra effort in then would stand to them when they sat their leaving.

NickNolte

It's embarrassing to think how much ill-informed nonsense has been crammed into these 18 pages. Even more embarrassing to think that any professional rugby players or associates might read it. Thank God for Internet anonymity.

Size=everything

I must say I find thehighgrounds posts quite comical. How he can make the assumption that Sexton is lazy and undedicated because he was not present at one kicking session is beyond me. Firstly I can assure you and every other doubter that yes Sexton does put in the effort practicing kicks every day as I have seen him do so. Take a stroll down to Kenilworth Square and its not uncommon to see him practicing there on his own for hours. So there goes that baseless claim.

Thehighground who are you to question any professional rugby player's commitment to training? are you are a Leinster coach or do you know Sexton personally? If not kindly shut your mouth and keep your laughable theories to yourself. Without going into detail you are so far off in your judgement of Sexton.

premierstone

Size=everything wrote: »

Thehighground who are you to question any professional rugby player's commitment to training? are you are a Leinster coach or do you know Sexton personally? If not kindly shut your mouth and keep your laughable theories to yourself. Without going into detail you are so far off in your judgement of Sexton.

To be fair to highground here, he only raised the question about Sextons application - I thought that was the point of this thread tbh to discuss he's potential strength, weaknesses etc. I really dont see the problem with raising the question and personally I would have major doubts about he's kicking on a consistent basis aswell, hopefully as others have pointed out that will come with experience and maturity.

I think the fact that alot of Sexton fans have gotten very defensive about the whole issue is quite interesting firstly it gives the impression that there is something in it (I have no idea about the guys attiutude or application btw) and also I find it very amussing that alot of the same posters that have been on here attacking highground and slating him for even suggesting such a thing are the very ones who have been on here slating ROG for the past two years!!

Tomtom364

How can people question ROGs mental ability?

Remember back to the leicester match a season or two ago. ROG (stupidly) made comments about english rugby, took massive pressure after those comments and still landed a kick from just over halfway in shocking conditions... Think that proves he is mentally strong in matches

thehighground

thehighground wrote: »

Bottom line, he needs to sort his kicking out pronto.

His kicking was fine against Munster and he has improved unbelievably at it.

So I dont know what you mean pronto?

Crash

Following this as well with his performance against llanelli - 5 in, 2 off the upright and 1 wide - at least one of the uprights was a very tight kick to make.