Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

Paraphrasing "Shane Ross knows there is zero hope of the Western Rail Corridor but doesn't want Mr Claremorris Freight Hub getting upset"

Perfect summation.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Well down from what?

I think he was inferring 200 at a rally in Tuam is not many!!

The paper reported 200 people at the Tuam rally on a Saturday evening, I'd like to see 2 people turn up for a West on Track rally!

200 people on a populaton of 8242 (census last time) is 2.4% of the population,the population of Dublin is 1.25 million. 200 in Tuam is the equivalent of 30,000 turning up for a rally in Dublin.

It puts things in perspective when you look at stats in the cold light of day a 2,4% turnout is a lot of the total population to actually get their arses out on Saturday evening is huge, I would say ABC is a worried man.

Muckyboots

westtip wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Well down from what?

I think he was inferring 200 at a rally in Tuam is not many!!

The paper reported 200 people at the Tuam rally on a Saturday evening, I'd like to see 2 people turn up for a West on Track rally!

200 people on a populaton of 8242 (census last time) is 2.4% of the population,the population of Dublin is 1.25 million. 200 in Tuam is the equivalent of 30,000 turning up for a rally in Dublin.

It puts things in perspective when you look at stats in the cold light of day a 2,4% turnout is a lot of the total population to actually get their arses out on Saturday evening is huge, I would say ABC is a worried man.

I'd say he was inferring down from 650 that walked in the summer. In any event it was closer to 300 and politicians multiply by 4 as a rule of thumb to estimate voting numbers. So everything you said above too.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

I'd say he was inferring down from 650 that walked in the summer. In any event it was closer to 300 and politicians multiply by 4 as a rule of thumb to estimate voting numbers. So everything you said above too.

Yes indeed, the numbers are impressive for a town the size of Tuam, 300 as you say for the Saturday night rally, even if you split the difference with the paper report it is still 250, then the 650 for the march, 4000 hard copy signatures on the Tuam Greenway petition, out of a total population of of just over 8000! Any politician who ignores this is a fool! A double page spread of negative news about him in the primary local town newspaper that is probably seen by at least half the population, and these figures don't even include what is being said on social media or numbers of people in Tuam who have signed the Western Rail Trail petition on change.org. The numbers are stacking up!

The report in the local paper giving coverage of both of his political rivals in his own constituency; on his patch being allowed the chance to speak in his town to his people about this local Tuam issue is massive. Tuam is probably the key town now in which the greenway could become a key local electoral issue, and we know what Ireland is like in national elections when it comes to key local issues! Tuam is the town ABC draws most of his support from, and ABC is the one getting all the negative news coverage in his own town on this issue!

Boy oh boy, I don't live in Tuam but reading it all and knowing something about what is going on there, and being able to see a political situation, I'd say the three councillors who used the delaying vote on the counter proposal in Galway CC plus ABC, are at least concerned at present, (worried I would say!). It is early days before the election but if this is kept in the public eye and domain it will stick and it could have an electoral effect.

Losing that vote in Galway CC last week may have been a set back for the Greenway campaigners at the southern end of the Western Rail Trail, but the amount of additional publicity that has come out about it has only increased the debate on the issue, one cllr in Mayo famously said a few years ago the "Western Rail Corridor is not up for discussion", Hardly the case now!!!! This vote by Galway CC and the public reaction to it may well be the catalyst that gets this whole debacle driven over the line!

"Not up for discussion" - I don't think so!

eastwest

The smartest thing these blockers can do now is to come out with their hands up and get behind the people. All the people want is their greenway, and voters will forgive past stupidity if they get a result.
But will that happen? It might in the case of Canney, he's had the taste of life in Leinster House and he'll hate to be thrown out next time, so it's a real tug of war for him between his own ambitions and those of his handlers. My bet is he'll go with his own best interests, at least in public, but he's likely to use his influence with Ross to slow things down in the background and appease the wot cabal.
In other words, we're looking at stalemate.

Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

The smartest thing these blockers can do now is to come out with their hands up and get behind the people. All the people want is their greenway, and voters will forgive past stupidity if they get a result.
But will that happen? It might in the case of Canney, he's had the taste of life in Leinster House and he'll hate to be thrown out next time, so it's a real tug of war for him between his own ambitions and those of his handlers. My bet is he'll go with his own best interests, at least in public, but he's likely to use his influence with Ross to slow things down in the background and appease the wot cabal.
In other words, we're looking at stalemate.

That county councils should have any say, let alone veto, over regional or national transport strategy is just plain Ballymagash daft. Be like asking religious orders to prepare children for life in a liberal, globalised and multidenominational society- oh, and that too.

serfboard

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Claude Wilton

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

All the present traffic options from Tuam to Galway result in jams irrespective of the motorway. This is an inevitable consequence of dispersed development - and a major rethink about that model of planning for Galway and its hinterland, including Tuam, is badly needed.

serfboard

Claude Wilton wrote: »

All the present traffic options from Tuam to Galway result in jams irrespective of the motorway.

And some people are only finally starting to realise that in Galway now. So Park & Rides and Bus Lanes are going to have to be built - and a new one is being planned:

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

The plan is to provide a designated bus lane from the Parkmore exit on the N17 inwards towards the lights at the Tuam Road junction – knocking at least 20 minutes off journey times between Tuam and Galway city.
...
The National Transport Authority have confirmed in writing that they care “currently funding” the City and County Council’s development along the N17 from the lights at the junction near Fleming’s Garage to the Tuam side of the Parkmore Road.

Claude Wilton wrote: »

This is an inevitable consequence of dispersed development - and a major rethink about that model of planning for Galway and its hinterland, including Tuam, is badly needed.

Indeed - but TDs for Galway have made their careers out of getting planning permissions for constituents in rural areas, in such a way as to make a stranger looking at a map think that the "plan" is to disperse as widely as possible.

The consequence of this dispersed planning, and of major employment centres being nowhere near train lines, is 100% dependence on the car, reluctance to take the train even where it's available and a traffic nightmare at peak hours.

westtip

Courtesy of the Tuam Herald. That double page spread just for ABC

Attachment not found.

Del.Monte

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Relying on CIE/IE to propose reopening of any line..........dear God - this is the same moribund outfit that proposed a busway for the former Harcourt Street line. :rolleyes:

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Would that be 'Frank West on Track my daddy drove the last beet train out of Tuam Dawson'?
I'm surprised that he's a train spotter.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Would that be 'Frank West on Track my daddy drove the last beet train out of Tuam Dawson'?
I'm surprised that he's a train spotter.

I think its the Frank "when I was a county manager I had a toy train set in my office" Dawson.....possibly the same Frank? Shoorly some mistake Ed.

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

Relying on CIE/IE to propose reopening of any line..........dear God - this is the same moribund outfit that proposed a busway for the former Harcourt Street line.

indeed. and from the document posted by serfboard, IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE. you couldn't make this up. the only valid reason on that list for no reopening is the population. the motor way or bus services should have no baring on whether a line should or shouldn't be reopened, as roads exist in every country which has a railway.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. and from the document posted by serfboard, IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE. you couldn't make this up. the only valid reason on that list for no reopening is the population. the motor way or bus services should have no baring on whether a line should or shouldn't be reopened, as roads exist in every country which has a railway.

TEN-T.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE.

Surprised that IE/CIE is no longer run by rail enthusiasts but by business people who try and turn a profit ? But you know that is their mandate as a semi-state company- what else can they do? It's the government's job to ensure effective and sustainable public transport, not theirs.

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

Has one of them got a local business, is that the same guy?
If it is, he's really stupid; all local businesses depend on local.support to a greater or lesser degree.

Claude Wilton

Deleted User wrote: »

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

Let's not forget this - despite the ballyhoo the motorway hasn't alleviated traffic congestion travelling to and from Galway. The greenway proposals won't be the only potential blow-up that county councillors will be watching. In this case, planning for greater urban density in Tuam coupled with a reliable link to Galway will remain on the agenda.

https://www.joe.ie/news/worst-places-ireland-traffic-congestion-578558

eastwest

Claude Wilton wrote: »

Let's not forget this - despite the ballyhoo the motorway hasn't alleviated traffic congestion travelling to and from Galway. The greenway proposals won't be the only potential blow-up that county councillors will be watching. In this case, planning for greater urban density in Tuam coupled with a reliable link to Galway will remain on the agenda.

https://www.joe.ie/news/worst-places-ireland-traffic-congestion-578558

And it won't, until they get the ring road sorted.

Del.Monte

Muckyboots wrote: »

Surprised that IE/CIE is no longer run by rail enthusiasts but by business people who try and turn a profit ? But you know that is their mandate as a semi-state company- what else can they do? It's the government's job to ensure effective and sustainable public transport, not theirs.

CIE has never been run by railway enthusiasts unlike NIR - which benefited from same.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

CIE has never been run by railway enthusiasts unlike NIR - which benefited from same.

https://nigreenways.com/about/

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Surprised that IE/CIE is no longer run by rail enthusiasts but by business people who try and turn a profit ? But you know that is their mandate as a semi-state company- what else can they do? It's the government's job to ensure effective and sustainable public transport, not theirs.

who are these business people operating IE? the boss, david franks is a railway man for a start.
CIE's transport operations for the most part will never be profitable. their mandate as a semi-state is to provide public transport. it is not IE'S job to be promoting bus services instead of rail services, but as part of integration with their rail services, along with their job of operating and promoting rail services..

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

I will do my best ..... good point thanks for reminding me!!!!!

marno21

end of the road wrote: »

who are these business people operating IE? the boss, david franks is a railway man for a start.
CIE's transport operations for the most part will never be profitable. their mandate as a semi-state is to provide public transport. it is not IE'S job to be promoting bus services instead of rail services, but as part of integration with their rail services, along with their job of operating and promoting rail services..

Maybe IE with a debt of 160m and issues with pay rises for heavily unionised workers may not want to seek capital funding to open an expensive railway that will require a large annual operating subvention that shadows a motorway that opened 9 days ago?

end of the road

marno21 wrote: »

Maybe IE with a debt of 160m and issues with pay rises for heavily unionised workers may not want to seek capital funding to open an expensive railway that will require a large annual operating subvention that shadows a motorway that opened 9 days ago?

what IE might want or may not want isn't relevant, unless it's the betterment of the rail network as a whole. unions exist in most railway companies and most railway companies have motorways along part of their network.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

what IE might want or may not want isn't relevant, unless it's the betterment of the rail network as a whole. unions exist in most railway companies and most railway companies have motorways along part of their network.

And anyway, they have the LUAS in Dublin.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

And anyway, they have the LUAS in Dublin.

And the velorail in Kiltimagh.

Muckyboots

http://seankyne.ie/western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/ Wants a Greenway in his constituency but not in his neighbours. A case of Imby-ism. "With over 380,000 annual passenger journeys the service has far exceeded initial estimates on which the original business case was based. The opening of the new M17/M18 Gort to Tuam motorway has led to some predicting the death of the Western Rail Corridor and others calling for a greenway to be installed. I believe the M17/M18 is an important milestone in the development of transport infrastructure in the West. I am in favour of greenways and believe they bring benefits to communities – to visitors and locals alike. However, I also believe that the way to enhance infrastructure in the West of Ireland is not by developing one at the expense of another. We need to deliver greater transport connectivity in the West. Developing the Western Rail Corridor northwards to Tuam and Sligo achieves this. Furthermore the sustainability and lower environmental impact of railways – and public transport in general – mean they are essential in helping us to meet our climate change obligations. The Western Rail Corridor is also an integral part of the Atlantic Economic Corridor, a Government-backed initiative aiming for more balanced regional development, which as Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development, comes under my remit. The Western Rail Corridor is part of the solution and it needs to be in the Capital Plan"

eastwest

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://seankyne.ie/western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/ Wants a Greenway in his constituency but not in his neighbours. A case of Imby-ism. "With over 380,000 annual passenger journeys the service has far exceeded initial estimates on which the original business case was based. The opening of the new M17/M18 Gort to Tuam motorway has led to some predicting the death of the Western Rail Corridor and others calling for a greenway to be installed. I believe the M17/M18 is an important milestone in the development of transport infrastructure in the West. I am in favour of greenways and believe they bring benefits to communities – to visitors and locals alike. However, I also believe that the way to enhance infrastructure in the West of Ireland is not by developing one at the expense of another. We need to deliver greater transport connectivity in the West. Developing the Western Rail Corridor northwards to Tuam and Sligo achieves this. Furthermore the sustainability and lower environmental impact of railways – and public transport in general – mean they are essential in helping us to meet our climate change obligations. The Western Rail Corridor is also an integral part of the Atlantic Economic Corridor, a Government-backed initiative aiming for more balanced regional development, which as Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development, comes under my remit. The Western Rail Corridor is part of the solution and it needs to be in the Capital Plan"

He's a deluded fool, on lots of levels. Where is the funding to come from to build a railway, and to subsidise it heavily?
And where did he get the idea that hauling empty trains around Galway is sustainable? Same place he got the inflated wrc figures from maybe.
Galway will.never get a greenway with idiots like him on the council. They'll never get a railway either, but he can have a nice little earner in promising it.

Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

http://seankyne.ie/western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/ Wants a Greenway in his constituency but not in his neighbours. A case of Imby-ism. "With over 380,000 annual passenger journeys the service has far exceeded initial estimates on which the original business case was based. The opening of the new M17/M18 Gort to Tuam motorway has led to some predicting the death of the Western Rail Corridor and others calling for a greenway to be installed. I believe the M17/M18 is an important milestone in the development of transport infrastructure in the West. I am in favour of greenways and believe they bring benefits to communities – to visitors and locals alike. However, I also believe that the way to enhance infrastructure in the West of Ireland is not by developing one at the expense of another. We need to deliver greater transport connectivity in the West. Developing the Western Rail Corridor northwards to Tuam and Sligo achieves this. Furthermore the sustainability and lower environmental impact of railways – and public transport in general – mean they are essential in helping us to meet our climate change obligations. The Western Rail Corridor is also an integral part of the Atlantic Economic Corridor, a Government-backed initiative aiming for more balanced regional development, which as Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development, comes under my remit. The Western Rail Corridor is part of the solution and it needs to be in the Capital Plan"

He's a deluded fool, on lots of levels. Where is the funding to come from to build a railway, and to subsidise it heavily?
And where did he get the idea that hauling empty trains around Galway is sustainable? Same place he got the inflated wrc figures from maybe.
Galway will.never get a greenway with idiots like him on the council. They'll never get a railway either, but he can have a nice little earner in promising it.

His P. Sec. is Cllr Peter Feeney, WOT. Nuf said.

voz es

http://seankyne.ie/western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/ Wants a Greenway in his constituency but not in his neighbours. A case of Imby-ism. "With over 380,000 annual passenger journeys the service has far exceeded initial estimates on which the original business case was based. The opening of the new M17/M18 Gort to Tuam motorway has led to some predicting the death of the Western Rail Corridor and others calling for a greenway to be installed. I believe the M17/M18 is an important milestone in the development of transport infrastructure in the West. I am in favour of greenways and believe they bring benefits to communities – to visitors and locals alike. However, I also believe that the way to enhance infrastructure in the West of Ireland is not by developing one at the expense of another. We need to deliver greater transport connectivity in the West. Developing the Western Rail Corridor northwards to Tuam and Sligo achieves this. Furthermore the sustainability and lower environmental impact of railways – and public transport in general – mean they are essential in helping us to meet our climate change obligations. The Western Rail Corridor is also an integral part of the Atlantic Economic Corridor, a Government-backed initiative aiming for more balanced regional development, which as Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development, comes under my remit. The Western Rail Corridor is part of the solution and it needs to be in the Capital Plan"[/QUOTE]

BRILLIANT NEWS FOR THE WEST OF IRELAND!!!

eastwest

voz es wrote: »

http://seankyne.ie/western-rail-corridor-must-be-included-in-new-capital-plan/ Wants a Greenway in his constituency but not in his neighbours. A case of Imby-ism. "With over 380,000 annual passenger journeys the service has far exceeded initial estimates on which the original business case was based. The opening of the new M17/M18 Gort to Tuam motorway has led to some predicting the death of the Western Rail Corridor and others calling for a greenway to be installed. I believe the M17/M18 is an important milestone in the development of transport infrastructure in the West. I am in favour of greenways and believe they bring benefits to communities – to visitors and locals alike. However, I also believe that the way to enhance infrastructure in the West of Ireland is not by developing one at the expense of another. We need to deliver greater transport connectivity in the West. Developing the Western Rail Corridor northwards to Tuam and Sligo achieves this. Furthermore the sustainability and lower environmental impact of railways – and public transport in general – mean they are essential in helping us to meet our climate change obligations. The Western Rail Corridor is also an integral part of the Atlantic Economic Corridor, a Government-backed initiative aiming for more balanced regional development, which as Minister of State at the Department of Rural and Community Development, comes under my remit. The Western Rail Corridor is part of the solution and it needs to be in the Capital Plan"

BRILLIANT NEWS FOR THE WEST OF IRELAND!!![/QUOTE]

Those are not the true figures for the wrc, they are grossly inflated. They include figures for ennis Limerick and Athenry Galway, both lines that were already there before the white elephant ennis athenry line was built.
If kyne and his wot friends want to persist with this nonsense, why don't they come up with a source of funding? What do they suggest, that the tax cuts for paye earners in this week's budget be reversed next year to pay the capital cost? That a special toll be applied to the M17 to subsidise the running costs?

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

BRILLIANT NEWS FOR THE WEST OF IRELAND!!!

Those are not the true figures for the wrc, they are grossly inflated. They include figures for ennis Limerick and Athenry Galway, both lines that were already there before the white elephant ennis athenry line was built.
If kyne and his wot friends want to persist with this nonsense, why don't they come up with a source of funding? What do they suggest, that the tax cuts for paye earners in this week's budget be reversed next year to pay the capital cost? That a special toll be applied to the M17 to subsidise the running costs?[/QUOTE]

the figures are accurate. the service is galway to limerick, so of course it's going to include people going from limerick to ennis or athenry to galway if they board those trains. apparently there is also decent through numbers from limerick to galway.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

BRILLIANT NEWS FOR THE WEST OF IRELAND!!!

the figures are accurate. the service is galway to limerick, so of course it's going to include people going from limerick to ennis or athenry to galway if they board those trains. apparently there is also decent through numbers from limerick to galway.

Accurate or not the WRC south is still flagged for closure. It won't be closed but Kyne is simply throwing a sop to his Connemara councillors. You could be forgiven for suspecting that his statement is part of the behind the scenes deal that allowed them to postpone the Greenway motion. It's gutter politics and downright dishonest. He knows full well it won't be in the Capital Plan, but it takes the heat off his cronies for a few weeks in the hope that the Athenry/Tuam Greenway lobby might throw in the towel. They have done the opposite, thankfully.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

Those are not the true figures for the wrc, they are grossly inflated. They include figures for ennis Limerick and Athenry Galway, both lines that were already there before the white elephant ennis athenry line was built.
If kyne and his wot friends want to persist with this nonsense, why don't they come up with a source of funding? What do they suggest, that the tax cuts for paye earners in this week's budget be reversed next year to pay the capital cost? That a special toll be applied to the M17 to subsidise the running costs?

the figures are accurate. the service is galway to limerick, so of course it's going to include people going from limerick to ennis or athenry to galway if they board those trains. apparently there is also decent through numbers from limerick to galway.[/QUOTE]

That's fantasy economics. If the money hadn't been spent on ennis athenry, most of those figures would still have been achieved. If wot can't see this, it's no wonder they are still bleating on about building another white elephant north of Athenry.
Everybody can see this reality except the little Claremorris cabal, and no government in its right mind will repeat the ennis athenry debacle. However with people like Canney, kyne and O'Mahony holding positions of influence, all that is facing Galway and Mayo is stalemate and rejection of investment in infrastructure -- investment that counties like waterford are happy to grab.
The only light at the end of the tunnel in the west is the move by sligo to use their brains and grab what is available, although WOT will slow that down for as long as the can too.
It's no wonder the west lags behind the rest of the country.

marno21

end of the road wrote: »

the figures are accurate. the service is galway to limerick, so of course it's going to include people going from limerick to ennis or athenry to galway if they board those trains. apparently there is also decent through numbers from limerick to galway.

If so can we apply the same logic to Connolly-Rosslare? The many millions using the line mean we should have 10 minute frequency between Gorey and Rosslare?

ClovenHoof

eastwest wrote: »

Everybody can see this reality except the little Claremorris cabal, and no government in its right mind will repeat the ennis athenry debacle. However with people like Canney, kyne and O'Mahony holding positions of influence, all that is facing Galway and Mayo is stalemate and rejection of investment in infrastructure -- investment that counties like waterford are happy to grab.
The only light at the end of the tunnel in the west is the move by sligo to use their brains and grab what is available, although WOT will slow that down for as long as the can too.
It's no wonder the west lags behind the rest of the country.

There is a lack of sense in the West that damages them and they seek to blame the 'Dublin Government' instead. Look at the Apple centre in Athenry. The locals objected to a facility which would be making of their community. The sister facility in Denmark announced the same time and up and running. It's very likely that if movement does not happen soon Apple will not build the centre in Athenry. It would be like people in Dublin chasing Google and Facebook out of the city.


They are their own worst enemies. Same reason they think a single track train wibbly wobbly train line to no where is salvation while a cycleway which will bring in millions is a bad idea.

Claude Wilton

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is a lack of sense in the West that damages them and they seek to blame the 'Dublin Government' instead. Look at the Apple centre in Athenry. The locals objected to a facility which would be making of their community. The sister facility in Denmark announced the same time and up and running. It's very likely that if movement does not happen soon Apple will not build the centre in Athenry. It would be like people in Dublin chasing Google and Facebook out of the city.


They are their own worst enemies. Same reason they think a single track train wibbly wobbly train line to no where is salvation while a cycleway which will bring in millions is a bad idea.

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

JCX BXC

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is a lack of sense in the West that damages them and they seek to blame the 'Dublin Government' instead. Look at the Apple centre in Athenry. The locals objected to a facility which would be making of their community. The sister facility in Denmark announced the same time and up and running. It's very likely that if movement does not happen soon Apple will not build the centre in Athenry. It would be like people in Dublin chasing Google and Facebook out of the city.


They are their own worst enemies. Same reason they think a single track train wibbly wobbly train line to no where is salvation while a cycleway which will bring in millions is a bad idea.

Ah yes, those uneducated apes in the West, tis like a jungle round these parts.

Jaysus, your post is like an extract from a Nazi Propaganda newspaper.

eastwest

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is a lack of sense in the West that damages them and they seek to blame the 'Dublin Government' instead. Look at the Apple centre in Athenry. The locals objected to a facility which would be making of their community. The sister facility in Denmark announced the same time and up and running. It's very likely that if movement does not happen soon Apple will not build the centre in Athenry. It would be like people in Dublin chasing Google and Facebook out of the city.

They are their own worst enemies. Same reason they think a single track train wibbly wobbly train line to no where is salvation while a cycleway which will bring in millions is a bad idea.

To be fair to the people of Athenry, most of them want the Apple project to go ahead, just a couple of people have managed to stop.it.
Same with the greenway, most people want to see it happen but a small group of people have managed to stop it.
There's a bit of a pattern here.

ClovenHoof

eastwest wrote: »

To be fair to the people of Athenry, most of them want the Apple project to go ahead, just a couple of people have managed to stop.it.
Same with the greenway, most people want to see it happen but a small group of people have managed to stop it.
There's a bit of a pattern here.

Yes. Usually a priest and a few 'Real GAA Men' are involved everytime.

eastwest

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Yes. Usually a priest and a few 'Real GAA Men' are involved everytime.

Or a case of a minority riding roughshod over the majority.

hytrogen

ClovenHoof wrote:

There is a lack of sense in the West that damages them and they seek to blame the 'Dublin Government' instead. Look at the Apple centre in Athenry. The locals objected to a facility which would be making of their community. The sister facility in Denmark announced the same time and up and running. It's very likely that if movement does not happen soon Apple will not build the centre in Athenry. It would be like people in Dublin chasing Google and Facebook out of the city.

If a multinational wants a train network from their data centre to their head offices or good transport links for their employees we'll get them one, sure it's only E13billion were taxing them apparently..
Anyway the Dubs won the all-ireland so all bets are off now!;)

ClovenHoof wrote:

They are their own worst enemies. Same reason they think a single track train wibbly wobbly train line to no where is salvation while a cycleway which will bring in millions is a bad idea.

You're apartheid to cycling Vs trains is admirable, reread the article, it said a focus towards a diversity of tranport amenities along the western corridor, meaning both greenways and railway, what's so wrong with that? Or do you just loath the sense of "imperiality" trains represented still?

eastwest

hytrogen wrote: »

If a multinational wants a train network from their data centre to their head offices or good transport links for their employees we'll get them one, sure it's only E13billion were taxing them apparently..
Anyway the Dubs won the all-ireland so all bets are off now!;)


You're apartheid to cycling Vs trains is admirable, reread the article, it said a focus towards a diversity of tranport amenities along the western corridor, meaning both greenways and railway, what's so wrong with that? Or do you just loath the sense of "imperiality" trains represented still?

It's cycling and walking versus nothing, trains are simply not part of the picture.
The continuing naive belief by a vocal minority that trains will appear is the core of the problem.

ClovenHoof

The WRC supporters are at the stage of implying anyone against them to be Nazis or somehow imposing 'aparthide' upon them?

This is the mentality that doomed them from the start. The only thing that superficial victim complexes generate is isolation and failure.

It is easier than implementing proper planning and making decisions that consider long term sustainabilty.

JCX BXC

ClovenHoof wrote: »

The WRC supporters are at the stage of implying anyone against them to be Nazis or somehow imposing 'aparthide' upon them?

This is the mentality that doomed them from the start. The only thing that superficial victim complexes generate is isolation and failure.

It is easier than implementing proper planning and making decisions that consider long term sustainabilty.

Ah here can we have less of the patronising attitude please? I don't support the WRC, most certainly not any section after Claremorris, however your insults are quite sad really.

You can't just say anything you like if someone doesn't agree with your god handed mentality!

westtip

A bit of calm and facts here I think. Back in 2013 when SF/WOT cllr Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray was interviewed for Ear for ground, if my memory serves me right the programme was recorded in the summer for screening in the Autumn winter series of 2013/14. Aside from his famous "the western rail corridor is not on the table and is not up for discussion" Gerry nufd Murray also referred in that interview to EU funding that would be coming through in the next few years and news from the EU to this effect, he was a bit premature in his predictions. Gerry nufd Murray was referring to the European TEN=T Transport strategy which at the time was very much up for discussion, the final EU TEN-T strategy was approved by the EU parliament and accepted by 27 nation state governments in November 2013, Gerry nufd Murray was being interviewed a few months before this final bombshell hit West on Track. European TEN=T Transport strategy did not include any plans to fund or support the Western Rail Corridor. I have laboured on about this point many times, in a way it is the whole crux of the matter; it really makes no difference what the claims and counter claims are about numbers using Galway Limerick, It really makes no difference if Coca- Cola add ten more freight trains a week to the payload from Ballina, the simple thing that has to be accepted is that the Western Rail Corridor - due to the fact it was excluded from the extensive list of projects that will get support in this state for transport infrastructure.

The EU MEPs for the West of Ireland failed West on Track miserably on this count. At the time I wrote a short paper on this subject for all the cllrs in the west, it went to all of them, I am minded to update it and send it out again. It is attached to this post. Arguments and insults can go back and forth, this whole thing has been scrutinised at Government and EU structural funding level already. The simple fact of the matter is if the Independent alliance TD for Claremorris, Sean "Anyone but Canney" Canney even got Hans Christian Anderson to rise from the dead to write a new Western Rail Corridor Report, with fairy stories he would have us believe about freight and thousands of commuters from Tuam, it will make no difference, his fairy tales of the west would have to be sold to Europe. He would have to persuade central Govt here in Dublin that the maybe one or two capital transfer projects we might get part funding on from Europe each year, that we as a country to make a submission for funding for a project that is not included in TEN-T and that such a project is more important than say, the N25, N20, N17, N16 etc.

The simple point is it is not going to happen for one simple reason. Money and lack of it.

Read this again please and begin to understand the realities of life. I wrote it four years ago so references to some of the MEPs is redundant as they have since lost their seats.

Claude Wilton

westtip wrote: »

A bit of calm and facts here I think. Back in 2013 when SF/WOT cllr Gerry "not up for discussion" Murray was interviewed for Ear for ground, if my memory serves me right the programme was recorded in the summer for screening in the Autumn winter series of 2013/14. Aside from his famous "the western rail corridor is not on the table and is not up for discussion" Gerry nufd Murray also referred in that interview to EU funding that would be coming through in the next few years and news from the EU to this effect, he was a bit premature in his predictions. Gerry nufd Murray was referring to the European TEN=T Transport strategy which at the time was very much up for discussion, the final EU TEN-T strategy was approved by the EU parliament and accepted by 27 nation state governments in November 2013, Gerry nufd Murray was being interviewed a few months before this final bombshell hit West on Track. European TEN=T Transport strategy did not include any plans to fund or support the Western Rail Corridor. I have laboured on about this point many times, in a way it is the whole crux of the matter; it really makes no difference what the claims and counter claims are about numbers using Galway Limerick, It really makes no difference if Coca- Cola add ten more freight trains a week to the payload from Ballina, the simple thing that has to be accepted is that the Western Rail Corridor - due to the fact it was excluded from the extensive list of projects that will get support in this state for transport infrastructure.

The EU MEPs for the West of Ireland failed West on Track miserably on this count. At the time I wrote a short paper on this subject for all the cllrs in the west, it went to all of them, I am minded to update it and send it out again. It is attached to this post. Arguments and insults can go back and forth, this whole thing has been scrutinised at Government and EU structural funding level already. The simple fact of the matter is if the Independent alliance TD for Claremorris, Sean "Anyone but Canney" Canney even got Hans Christian Anderson to rise from the dead to write a new Western Rail Corridor Report, with fairy stories he would have us believe about freight and thousands of commuters from Tuam, it will make no difference, his fairy tales of the west would have to be sold to Europe. He would have to persuade central Govt here in Dublin that the maybe one or two capital transfer projects we might get part funding on from Europe each year, that we as a country to make a submission for funding for a project that is not included in TEN-T and that such a project is more important than say, the N25, N20, N17, N16 etc.

The simple point is it is not going to happen for one simple reason. Money and lack of it.

Read this again please and begin to understand the realities of life. I wrote it four years ago so references to some of the MEPs is redundant as they have since lost their seats.

What is the bigger point then? Keeping trains from running from Tuam to Galway, or putting a greenway over it? Those of us with long memories remember how the original WRC thread took a very long time to put its focus onto the greenway option.

Dargan Bridge

Claude Wilton wrote: »

What is the bigger point then? Keeping trains from running from Tuam to Galway, or putting a greenway over it? Those of us with long memories remember how the original WRC thread took a very long time to put its focus onto the greenway option.

The real point is stop the railway at all costs.