Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I'm sure that if it was examined in Canney's report, it would be a far more favourable option than reinstatement.
.

this is the issue about the mythical Canney Report to come on the Western Rail Corridor, what will the brief on the canney report be? who will be the "independent" consultants to write it? Will the public and all stakeholders have input on the questions to be addressed? Will it look at all the options (including greenway)

I think the reference point should be the report Sligo county council had commissioned on future options for the WRC in Sligo. This report which was not commissioned with any bias came clearly down on the side of the idea of a greenway. It also unequivocally stated the view of irish rail on the greenway option vis a vis the reinstatement of the railway, this is what it said on that subject:

Page 48 of the Sligo Report published in June 2016 (copy attached to this post) says this "Communication with Irish Rail and other greenway projects has repeatedly highlighted the absolute requirement of a clause in the greenway licence that requires the revocation of the licence if the line is reopened at any stage. This is strictly enforced and reemphasised by Irish Rail, who also require, where necessary, additional costs to be incurred in the development of the greenway to ensure future-proofing in the event of a reopening of the line."

Personally I don't think the "Canney report" will ever happen, it is just a can kicking exercise to stop the greenway, its the old adage of sure we can't get anything done till the report telling us to do nothing is published.

Complete waste of time the whole shambles of Government.

JCX BXC

westtip wrote: »

Sorry but MSA is?

Motorway service area AFAIK, like Barrack Obama Plaza for example.

westtip

JCX BXC wrote: »

Motorway service area AFAIK, like Barrack Obama Plaza for example.

Ah yes of course!!! Bizarre one wasn't allowed off this interchange! Two motorways crossing over each other, an ideal spot for people to meet for exchange of passengers, eg children at weekends of separated parents! to have business meetings, to have a travel lodge style budget motel with meeting facilities to rent, etc etc.

Also save the need for dual service stations on either side of the motorway - an MSA here off the junction would have provided for East West North South traffic usage - ie 4 flows of traffic instead of the usual one flow of traffic if it's an MSA on one side of a motorway!

Potential for true 24 hour facilities as opposed to closed after midnight and only get fuel service through a serving hatch!

Not to mention my bus interchange idea!

Reckon it would have created upwards of a hundred service related jobs in East Galway......

Dont the people who design these things actually consult with the people who are going to use them?

westtip

Anyway back on subject here is a report from this weeks Tuam Herald. The headline says it all about the kicking the can down the road.

"Ross refuses to clarify status of Athenry to Claremorris rail review"

http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/04/4146682-ross-refuses-to-clarify-status-of-athenry-to-claremorris-rail-review/

marno21

westtip wrote: »

Anyway back on subject here is a report from this weeks Tuam Herald. The headline says it all about the kicking the can down the road.



http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/10/04/4146682-ross-refuses-to-clarify-status-of-athenry-to-claremorris-rail-review/

Paraphrasing "Shane Ross knows there is zero hope of the Western Rail Corridor but doesn't want Mr Claremorris Freight Hub getting upset"

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

Paraphrasing "Shane Ross knows there is zero hope of the Western Rail Corridor but doesn't want Mr Claremorris Freight Hub getting upset"

Ah yes the TD for Claremorris AKA Sean (Anyone But Canney) Canney will stop this report at all costs, no report, no further votes in Galway county council asking awkward questions, no further debate, no greenway, no railway no nothing except weeds and rotting railway timbers and a lot of disgruntled voters in Claremorris AKA Tuam for Sean (Anyone But Canney) Canney to have lost .....hopefully.

Anyway, sure isn't great how doing nothing means you can do nothing wrong


....err or nothing right either!:D

voz es

Thankfully people are hea the turnout in Tuam was well down.

serfboard

marno21 wrote: »

Paraphrasing "Shane Ross knows there is zero hope of the Western Rail Corridor but doesn't want Mr Claremorris Freight Hub getting upset"

Can you imagine how "outraged" (since that was all he used to be able to do before he entered government became totally useless), Shane Ross would be if he were in opposition now?

"The Minister refuses to rule out spending hundereds of millions of euro on a train line that will never be used. Simply OUTRAGEOUS, and the Minister should resign immediately"

... or words to that effect.

westtip

Just looked at the double page spread in the digital version of the Tuam Herald, wow I have never seen reporting quite like in a local paper about a local TD, I reckon Sean "(Anyone But Canney)" Canney will be scurrying around the town buying up all the copies to bin them! If anyone can get hold of a copy post up a photo of the double page spread, it pans ABC, it exposes the Claremorris factor in the vote last week, it pans the Minister and it allows the two other sitting TDs a free run at Sean "(Anyone But Canney)" Canney's vote in Tuam.

The three local cllrs who voted against the motion also have their heads on the block in this article.

Sean "(Anyone But Canney)" Canney must have smoke like a steam engine coming out of his ears and nostrils! Any Tuam readers out there let's see it posted up here please!

Muckyboots

voz es wrote: »

Thankfully people are hea the turnout in Tuam was well down.

Well down from what?

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

Paraphrasing "Shane Ross knows there is zero hope of the Western Rail Corridor but doesn't want Mr Claremorris Freight Hub getting upset"

Perfect summation.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

Well down from what?

I think he was inferring 200 at a rally in Tuam is not many!!

The paper reported 200 people at the Tuam rally on a Saturday evening, I'd like to see 2 people turn up for a West on Track rally!

200 people on a populaton of 8242 (census last time) is 2.4% of the population,the population of Dublin is 1.25 million. 200 in Tuam is the equivalent of 30,000 turning up for a rally in Dublin.

It puts things in perspective when you look at stats in the cold light of day a 2,4% turnout is a lot of the total population to actually get their arses out on Saturday evening is huge, I would say ABC is a worried man.

Muckyboots

westtip wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Well down from what?

I think he was inferring 200 at a rally in Tuam is not many!!

The paper reported 200 people at the Tuam rally on a Saturday evening, I'd like to see 2 people turn up for a West on Track rally!

200 people on a populaton of 8242 (census last time) is 2.4% of the population,the population of Dublin is 1.25 million. 200 in Tuam is the equivalent of 30,000 turning up for a rally in Dublin.

It puts things in perspective when you look at stats in the cold light of day a 2,4% turnout is a lot of the total population to actually get their arses out on Saturday evening is huge, I would say ABC is a worried man.

I'd say he was inferring down from 650 that walked in the summer. In any event it was closer to 300 and politicians multiply by 4 as a rule of thumb to estimate voting numbers. So everything you said above too.

westtip

Muckyboots wrote: »

I'd say he was inferring down from 650 that walked in the summer. In any event it was closer to 300 and politicians multiply by 4 as a rule of thumb to estimate voting numbers. So everything you said above too.

Yes indeed, the numbers are impressive for a town the size of Tuam, 300 as you say for the Saturday night rally, even if you split the difference with the paper report it is still 250, then the 650 for the march, 4000 hard copy signatures on the Tuam Greenway petition, out of a total population of of just over 8000! Any politician who ignores this is a fool! A double page spread of negative news about him in the primary local town newspaper that is probably seen by at least half the population, and these figures don't even include what is being said on social media or numbers of people in Tuam who have signed the Western Rail Trail petition on change.org. The numbers are stacking up!

The report in the local paper giving coverage of both of his political rivals in his own constituency; on his patch being allowed the chance to speak in his town to his people about this local Tuam issue is massive. Tuam is probably the key town now in which the greenway could become a key local electoral issue, and we know what Ireland is like in national elections when it comes to key local issues! Tuam is the town ABC draws most of his support from, and ABC is the one getting all the negative news coverage in his own town on this issue!

Boy oh boy, I don't live in Tuam but reading it all and knowing something about what is going on there, and being able to see a political situation, I'd say the three councillors who used the delaying vote on the counter proposal in Galway CC plus ABC, are at least concerned at present, (worried I would say!). It is early days before the election but if this is kept in the public eye and domain it will stick and it could have an electoral effect.

Losing that vote in Galway CC last week may have been a set back for the Greenway campaigners at the southern end of the Western Rail Trail, but the amount of additional publicity that has come out about it has only increased the debate on the issue, one cllr in Mayo famously said a few years ago the "Western Rail Corridor is not up for discussion", Hardly the case now!!!! This vote by Galway CC and the public reaction to it may well be the catalyst that gets this whole debacle driven over the line!

"Not up for discussion" - I don't think so!

eastwest

The smartest thing these blockers can do now is to come out with their hands up and get behind the people. All the people want is their greenway, and voters will forgive past stupidity if they get a result.
But will that happen? It might in the case of Canney, he's had the taste of life in Leinster House and he'll hate to be thrown out next time, so it's a real tug of war for him between his own ambitions and those of his handlers. My bet is he'll go with his own best interests, at least in public, but he's likely to use his influence with Ross to slow things down in the background and appease the wot cabal.
In other words, we're looking at stalemate.

Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

The smartest thing these blockers can do now is to come out with their hands up and get behind the people. All the people want is their greenway, and voters will forgive past stupidity if they get a result.
But will that happen? It might in the case of Canney, he's had the taste of life in Leinster House and he'll hate to be thrown out next time, so it's a real tug of war for him between his own ambitions and those of his handlers. My bet is he'll go with his own best interests, at least in public, but he's likely to use his influence with Ross to slow things down in the background and appease the wot cabal.
In other words, we're looking at stalemate.

That county councils should have any say, let alone veto, over regional or national transport strategy is just plain Ballymagash daft. Be like asking religious orders to prepare children for life in a liberal, globalised and multidenominational society- oh, and that too.

serfboard

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Claude Wilton

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

All the present traffic options from Tuam to Galway result in jams irrespective of the motorway. This is an inevitable consequence of dispersed development - and a major rethink about that model of planning for Galway and its hinterland, including Tuam, is badly needed.

serfboard

Claude Wilton wrote: »

All the present traffic options from Tuam to Galway result in jams irrespective of the motorway.

And some people are only finally starting to realise that in Galway now. So Park & Rides and Bus Lanes are going to have to be built - and a new one is being planned:

The Connacht Tribune wrote:

The plan is to provide a designated bus lane from the Parkmore exit on the N17 inwards towards the lights at the Tuam Road junction – knocking at least 20 minutes off journey times between Tuam and Galway city.
...
The National Transport Authority have confirmed in writing that they care “currently funding” the City and County Council’s development along the N17 from the lights at the junction near Fleming’s Garage to the Tuam side of the Parkmore Road.

Claude Wilton wrote: »

This is an inevitable consequence of dispersed development - and a major rethink about that model of planning for Galway and its hinterland, including Tuam, is badly needed.

Indeed - but TDs for Galway have made their careers out of getting planning permissions for constituents in rural areas, in such a way as to make a stranger looking at a map think that the "plan" is to disperse as widely as possible.

The consequence of this dispersed planning, and of major employment centres being nowhere near train lines, is 100% dependence on the car, reluctance to take the train even where it's available and a traffic nightmare at peak hours.

westtip

Courtesy of the Tuam Herald. That double page spread just for ABC

Attachment not found.

Del.Monte

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Relying on CIE/IE to propose reopening of any line..........dear God - this is the same moribund outfit that proposed a busway for the former Harcourt Street line. :rolleyes:

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

http://wayofthetribes.ie/

As an accompaniment it looks like, to the ATM (Athenry-Tuam-Milltown) Greenway Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/athenrytuamgreenway/

They quote IE's document "The Future of Rail in Ireland: Rail Network Strategy Review (Vision 2030)" which explains the reasons why IE have ruled out reinstating the railway:

1. The dispersed and low population along the disused railway route isn’t remotely sufficient to fill trains.

2. There is a new motorway running alongside the railway alignment.

3. Well established local bus operators are faster, cheaper, more frequent and go to multiple destinations unlike a train service.

Incidentally, there were three people on Galway Bay FM this morning talking about infrastructural development for the West - Frank Dawson, former Roscommon County Manager, Mike Devane of Galway Chamber of Commerce and Maurice O'Gorman, also of Galway Chamber.

All of them spoke in favour of the railway.

Would that be 'Frank West on Track my daddy drove the last beet train out of Tuam Dawson'?
I'm surprised that he's a train spotter.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Would that be 'Frank West on Track my daddy drove the last beet train out of Tuam Dawson'?
I'm surprised that he's a train spotter.

I think its the Frank "when I was a county manager I had a toy train set in my office" Dawson.....possibly the same Frank? Shoorly some mistake Ed.

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

Relying on CIE/IE to propose reopening of any line..........dear God - this is the same moribund outfit that proposed a busway for the former Harcourt Street line.

indeed. and from the document posted by serfboard, IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE. you couldn't make this up. the only valid reason on that list for no reopening is the population. the motor way or bus services should have no baring on whether a line should or shouldn't be reopened, as roads exist in every country which has a railway.

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. and from the document posted by serfboard, IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE. you couldn't make this up. the only valid reason on that list for no reopening is the population. the motor way or bus services should have no baring on whether a line should or shouldn't be reopened, as roads exist in every country which has a railway.

TEN-T.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

IE are effectively trying to promote bus services, which in some or all cases may not even be operated by CIE.

Surprised that IE/CIE is no longer run by rail enthusiasts but by business people who try and turn a profit ? But you know that is their mandate as a semi-state company- what else can they do? It's the government's job to ensure effective and sustainable public transport, not theirs.

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

eastwest

Deleted User wrote: »

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

Has one of them got a local business, is that the same guy?
If it is, he's really stupid; all local businesses depend on local.support to a greater or lesser degree.

Claude Wilton

Deleted User wrote: »

When you mention ABC, don't forget to include local councillors Tom McHugh, Des Joyce and Billy Connelly. Wouldn't want people to forget those names, I know I won't.

I'm honestly getting angry at this point, at the bare faced cheek of this crowd.

Angry enough to start looking at what I can do to assist Greenway supporting politicians to be sure they get reelected.

Let's not forget this - despite the ballyhoo the motorway hasn't alleviated traffic congestion travelling to and from Galway. The greenway proposals won't be the only potential blow-up that county councillors will be watching. In this case, planning for greater urban density in Tuam coupled with a reliable link to Galway will remain on the agenda.

https://www.joe.ie/news/worst-places-ireland-traffic-congestion-578558

eastwest

Claude Wilton wrote: »

Let's not forget this - despite the ballyhoo the motorway hasn't alleviated traffic congestion travelling to and from Galway. The greenway proposals won't be the only potential blow-up that county councillors will be watching. In this case, planning for greater urban density in Tuam coupled with a reliable link to Galway will remain on the agenda.

https://www.joe.ie/news/worst-places-ireland-traffic-congestion-578558

And it won't, until they get the ring road sorted.