Do you think alcohol is poorly regulated?

DrumSteve

def wrote: »

Should the legal drinking age be 18?

If not , higher or lower?

If it was 16 (for beer and so on ) like it is in some european countrys would this reduce violence on the streets and encourage responsible use?How so?

If it was 20 (and 18 for spirits)would this encourage responsible use or reduce violence ?How so?

Do you think a pub or the person behind the counter should be fined ?(for selling kids drink)

Is fining more effective then revoking a permit?

Do you think alcohol companys should be allowed to advertise?

Are you writing a book? thats a lot of questions....

Alcohol is overly regulated, which, when coupled with Irish Peoples love for getting "one up" on the system, means we(for the most part) abuse it totally.

Whats needed is a change in attitude from everyone in this country. some people think its a badge of honour that they're irish and solely due to this fact they can drink anyone under the table.

Wazdakka

DrumSteve wrote: »

Are you writing a book? thats a lot of questions....
.

Probably a college paper..
Have you seen his other threads?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055816791
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055815140

*looks suspiciously at OP*

Herbal Deity

ejmaztec wrote: »

Don't they teach anything in schools about this drink attitude problem, or do they just sweep it under the carpet like everything else that they don't want to talk about?

I recall being taught how utterly dreadful alcohol was.

What was puzzling at 12 years old was why people would bother drinking alcohol in the first place if all it did was caused dizziness, was detrimental to motor skills, coordination, cognition, induced nausea etc.

Biased teaching of only the negatives has no effect.

def

Briana Rhythmic Sidekick wrote: »

To answer the op's question I think its over regulated. Off licenses closing at 10pm and pubs/night clubs having closing at 2:30 is ridiculous.

i think you mean poorly regulated ,, to strict on people who should be able to choose for themselves , to easy for kids to get it / not enough to stop people giving it to them / stop them using spirits

RobbieTheRobber

atavan-halen wrote: »

Wasn't that to cut down on underage drinking? Pretty pointless as most teenagers have their drink by 8-9pm before going out.

Wasn't that to try and reduce the binge drinking culture?

def

ScumLord wrote: »

Why should beer be given to younger people? You seem to be working under the incorrect assumption that beer is some sort of alcohol light. Just because it's got bubbles in it doesn't mean it's suitable for kids. Larger and cider get into your system rapidly, you'd almost be better off drinking spirits.

yes but in my mind beer is for socialising ,spirits is for getting locked out of your brains , and once you have downed that nagon theres no going back

also spirits make some people very agro

toiletduck

Way too over-regulated as it is.

token56

def wrote: »

parents who do a bad job at raising there kids need something /someone to blame ,"if schools are supposed to be teaching our children... it must be their fault"

every child on the first day of school should be given a list of what there parents should have /should soon teach them ,, parents should be your main educater ,not some person at the top of a room you go to everyday who shouts at you and tells you your not allowed go to the toilet etc

this is not the type of authority figure kids need to learn this stuff from " if this guys such a failure ,should i do the oppisite to avoid becoming a failure in life?"

I completely agree the book should stop with the parent, they should be your main educator on things like this. But there is a whole other discussion which could probably be had regarding bad parenting, on even kids seen alcohol abuse in the home and thinking its acceptable etc. But its probably better to be discussed another time.

I also agree the teacher and school normally has a negative attachment with things like authority and people telling you things you shouldn't be doing etc but it is still the best place to reach children as a group. While drinking problems are often related to the individual, there are also problems associated with group mentalities that can build up regarding what is acceptable with drink and drunken behavior. I think school is good place to try help with this group mentality that can sometimes build up. Also it doesn't have to be a teacher educating about this sort of stuff but possibly someone different who kids or young teenagers could possibly related to. There are bad aspects of alcohol which should be taught, but it doesn't all have to be negative stuff.

def

strobe wrote: »

I see a few people saying this, we need more education. I'm all for education but would it make the slightest bit of difference at all? Is there a single 14 year old in the country that would come out of a school run education dealy on alcohol and say "wow, I didn't know that about alcohol. Really it can make make you do things you wouldn't normally do? It can be addictive?" ect. What exactly are we going to educate people about that they don't all already know? Everyone young and old knows, for example, it's not a good idea to drink loads of drink really quickly on a night out, they just choose to do it anyways.

i think ,,, making the legal age for buying beer 16 and spirtits at 18/20 would send a strong message "educating" people that drinking is /should be about socialising not getting plastered ,and as a side effect take "kids" off streets ,they could go somewhere even if they couldnt afford to get drunk and if they misbehave they get kicked out .... thus giving them a reason to behave if they get told to move along in the streets ,,, thats it they just move up the road ,, once you drink in a pub a feild is a whole lot less appealing

def

Jay P wrote: »

I can't really see it turning people off wanting to drink, but it might turn people off drinking as much as humanly possible.
Maybe introducing kids to people with addiction problems might be one solution. I know that when I was in TY it made me think a lot more about alcohol when three men from AA came in to talk to us.

Saying that is kind of like saying that there's no point educating kids about the dangers of unprotected sex because they already know all about sex. It doesn't really make sense.

scare tactics are never very good , and i feel are a sign of either a sign of a lack of creativity in policy makers or some degree hatered in policy makers

def

DrumSteve wrote: »

Are you writing a book? thats a lot of questions....

naw ,maybe i should or at least a few leaflets,,

it was just so people wouldnt say yes/no ,,

token56

strobe wrote: »

I see a few people saying this, we need more education. I'm all for education but would it make the slightest bit of difference at all? Is there a single 14 year old in the country that would come out of a school run education dealy on alcohol and say "wow, I didn't know that about alcohol. Really it can make make you do things you wouldn't normally do? It can be addictive?" ect. What exactly are we going to educate people about that they don't all already know? Everyone young and old knows, for example, it's not a good idea to drink loads of drink really quickly on a night out, they just choose to do it anyways.

It doesn't have to be just teaching that "alcohol can be bad and unhealthy, you can become addicted etc". They can be taught its ok to consume alcohol in moderation etc. They can also be taught about acceptable behavior when drunk, serious stuff. Not just things that you yourself may do but as a group and also things that may be done to you. I've a bit of a grip with things like how consensual is consenting to sex when extremely drunk, this is probably more a humanities issue regardless. But anyway I think there are plenty of things that could be done in school that can improve kids future experiences of alcohol. I'm not trying to say take all the fun out it but just educate them that it can be used for fun without all the anti social behavior that is associated with it.

Maybe it wont make a difference, but I dont see much else being done in trying to help some of the drinking attitudes this country has and it is at least something which can be tried.

def

token56 wrote: »

there are also problems associated with group mentalities that can build up regarding what is acceptable with drink and drunken behavior.

cool kid at break after learning about drink " wats dat tik takin bout ,gettin locked in rapid"

other kids "but where can we get it ?"

cool k " down the offo beside ***** ,no boder , giv it to any one , get a nagen do ,its well cheaper ,just down it"

who do the kids pay more attention to?

they say (teachers)do you not think teachers talk to each other?

token56

def wrote: »

cool kid at break after learning about drink " wats dat tik takin bout ,gettin locked in rapid"

other kids "but where can we get it ?"

cool k " down the offo beside ***** ,no boder , giv it to any one , get a nagen do ,its well cheaper ,just down it"

who do the kids pay more attention to?

they say (teachers)do you not think teachers talk to each other?

sorry I'm not exactly sure what the point being made is?

Overheal

I think another factor is Repurcussions or lack thereof.

There is a serious air/underlying attitude in this country that the courts are not living up to their end of the bargain. Eddie ****ing Halvey - 7 months suspended sentence for drunk driving and Vehicular Manslaughter.

Honestly what Deterrent is there to a Pleb to drink responsibly? Sweet F*ck All.

def

token56 wrote: »

It doesn't have to be just teaching that "alcohol can be bad and unhealthy, you can become addicted etc". They can be taught its ok to consume alcohol in moderation etc. They can also be taught about acceptable behavior when drunk, serious stuff.

Maybe it wont make a difference, but I dont see much else being done in trying to help some of the drinking attitudes this country has and it is at least something which can be tried.

if drinking alcohol "in moderation " was taught as ok it would definately bring up some ackwerd questions about the next most used recreational drug which all the kids can buy because theres no age limit on it ... if you follow me

def

token56 wrote: »

sorry I'm not exactly sure what the point being made is?

group / herd mentality follow the "leader"

def

Overheal wrote: »

I think another factor is Repurcussions or lack thereof.

There is a serious air/underlying attitude in this country that the courts are not living up to their end of the bargain. Eddie ****ing Halvey - 7 months suspended sentence for drunk driving and Vehicular Manslaughter.

Honestly what Deterrent is there to a Pleb to drink responsibly? Sweet F*ck All.

thats my point exactly about bringing 16 year olds into pubs , misbehave your kicked out ,keep it up your barred , act like a kid older people give you funny looks or a bit of abuse ,,

it would completely change the mind set ,and get them off the streets

from my experiances if you have a group of kids 15+ (years of age)on the streets ,doing nothing , no where else to go ,it will only take one bad apple to set the rest down that road

very quickly they realise ,hey if this guy can rob 300+ cars get caught only 20 times and of those spend a few weeks locked up , total , they all very quickly have no respect for any law , if they wana do somthing they do it ,if a gardai comes along hes not the long arm of the law ,hes just this guy whos "spoiling their fun" ,the fact pot has no age limit doesnt help either (so they all do that and get away with it)

this is very dangerous for society in general, unfotunately ,i would say most people dont think" why is that kid a violent little thug ?",they just think " that kid is a violent little thug"

this is the attitude that needs to be addressed ,so possible problems are prevented not just delt with poorly when they happen

Jay P

def wrote: »

i think ,,, making the legal age for buying beer 16 and spirtits at 18/20 would send a strong message "educating" people that drinking is /should be about socialising not getting plastered ,and as a side effect take "kids" off streets ,they could go somewhere even if they couldnt afford to get drunk and if they misbehave they get kicked out .... thus giving them a reason to behave if they get told to move along in the streets ,,, thats it they just move up the road ,, once you drink in a pub a feild is a whole lot less appealing

No, lowering the drinking age would do a whole lot of damage. I don't see how it could be seen as a good thing. It'd just encourage kids to drink more, and to start even younger.

Overheal

Jay P wrote: »

No, lowering the drinking age would do a whole lot of damage. I don't see how it could be seen as a good thing. It'd just encourage kids to drink more, and to start even younger.

Tricky subject. One school of thought is that it reinforces the idea that Drinking is not something you need to Hide or be Ashamed of. And that in turn would lead to fewer closet alcoholics in Denial. I started drinking at 16, in pubs. My parents knew - werent happy about it, but much gladder it was a pub. The Publican happened to be an ex Cop. Frankly it was a safe place to learn my limit. And nowadays I barely drink at all.

The other is I guess the US school of thought, where the age is 21 and while underage drinking goes on theres certainly a different culture to it. But that basically makes it a completely different scenario and not all that relevant to the Irish scenario. The big difference though is Deterrence, if you get in an accident from drunk driving you could face 5 years or More. Right now thats just not really happening in Ireland. Its a far too lenient system based on blind Forgiveness.

CrazyRabbit

Alcohol is regulated just fine as it is. We just need to find a way to stop the assholes from drinking it.

Jay P

Overheal wrote: »

Tricky subject. One school of thought is that it reinforces the idea that Drinking is not something you need to Hide or be Ashamed of. And that in turn would lead to fewer closet alcoholics in Denial.

Would you mind explaining how? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see how this would be the case.

def

Jay P wrote: »

Would you mind explaining how? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see how this would be the case.

drinking "on the nak" ,somewhere thats illegal ..is not talked about like its illegal in any way ,, every one there knows its illegal ,it just makes it more fun,,this could have in its self, have a massive impact on the sub/concience thinking and reasoning of the child or teenager , this is unacceptable ,illegal,this is fun, this is about getting as drunk as i can afford , this is cool ,this is normal ,
and since the child or teenager never drinks with their parents , or other older more sensible people with whom the can socialise and learn from in a positive setting , only other people who wander around the local forest/feild or just plain out on the street, no respect for anything or anyone looking for trouble /money,

the gate way effect of under age drinking ,exposure when vunerable

if you made the drinking age 16 then all those "kids" see older people drinking ,maybe even start conversations with them ! Also there would be a far fewer possible negetive consequences ,and some one to say you have had enough, if you start a fight your gone , if you do it regularly your banned and maybe your freinds as well ,that would encourage them to keep each other calm , no spirits ,not enough money to drink every day but somewhere to go and possibly socialise sober in a pub with older people, i was finnished school at 16 (leaving done at 16,results at 17) ,,,,(but i had a beard),,,,,collage full of hippys,,,your not allowed purchase alcohol legaly,,,,see where this could go badly since you have this sub thought ,,illegal=fun,,excess=fun,,,which is the same as every kid that has ever gone on the nak,, the exact arguement could be me made for some thing else which is illegal for all ,but their is definatly no age limit on it , and lots of kids do it and by solely the grace a god it cant kill you ,but we'll leave that for a different place ,and time,

i think the mechinisation of agriculture really screwed ireland ,mass migration to the citys ,breaking up of communitys ,which self-regulated their moral values because old and young socialised with one another, there was no age limit / it was ignored ,no form of illegal alcohol consumption or excessive use ,strong stuff wasnt affordable,and if you became too drunk you were toyed with much older people(30,40,50,)who you knew and respected ,and could engage in life storys and discussion long into the moring ,learning all the while or perhaps only occationally between singing and so on because of the lack of speakers to blare heavy mind numbing muck to the centre of your soul,and what do you sing about?perceived injustice?life? fools incharge of the country?good times ? good people? bad people? we used to be the people of poets and proud equal and slightly drunken men and women

now we have masses of people who drink illegaly ,without this positive sensible respected and welcomed guidence,this break in contact between old and young ,at a crucial time in their lives when they begin to explore the world for them selves ,is a vunerable time ,if they have fun sociable and illegal drinking ,,it sets a mind set ,,values ,,values based on bad dance music (numbs the brain), very bad but popular hip hop music (women are bit*chs,im poplar because people want to fu*k me, ni**er, sell krack, SHOOT PEOPLE FOR WEARING A DIFFERENT COULOR T-SHIRT),or bad metal music (I WANT TO DIE ,I TRY TO KILL MYSELF), when they do go drinking legaly its probly not in the local its town or where ever their collage buddys are goin ,,,clubs more negitive music ,dosnt matter if you are kicked out ,plenty more places to go ,contact with drugs has probly already happened ,then its not just hash available ,its coke,pills etc,, remeber illegal=fun excess=fun,, i was told drinking and smoking hash are dangerous and addictive,, if this lad is having such a good time.... ,, remeber also drinking yourself to death requires physically large quantitys , hash cant kill you no matter how large it is ,,other drugs kill you very easily and a far more easly misused ,,excess =death ,certain addiction ,there are more heroin addicts in dublin than gardai in the country ,and we have one of the more statisically dangerous capitals in europe ,

what kind of differences is there between us and other great drinking nations ?,,that who drink compartively more peacefully ,and in general are less hostile when drunk ,and whos national identitys arent going like americas ,,,,guns,krack,war,hate

16,18,21 pick the ireland,france and america....

this is my frame of thought anyway ,maybe its complete nonsense what do i know i smoke illegal drugs sometimes but at least i dont drink excessively or regularly

Overheal

Well theres also the Wine thing in france, which kids can do much younger, with dillution. But its part of the same theory set - Wine is part of the meal, shared with your family, in a very constructive setting.

aidan24326

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Wasn't that (off-license closing) to try and reduce the binge drinking culture?

Nope. The government said at the time it was intended to try and cut down underage drinking. They never actually said how that would happen, because they haven't a clue of course. It wouldn't surprise me if it was really a deal with the publicans to help boost flagging pub trade (or something else like that at least).

def

Overheal wrote: »

Well theres also the Wine thing in france, which kids can do much younger, with dillution. But its part of the same theory set - Wine is part of the meal, shared with your family, in a very constructive setting.

they also ,in certain areas,and in austria,italy etc work the vinegardens(involes quite a few people), this involves working to help a relative or neighbour for free or very little and a bit of food an drink and involves quite a bit of singing and time to contemplate setting up good moral values even if you origionally came from ireland where these things just didnt happen....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age#Europe

pick out the countrys you would like to live in (europe)then look at the ages

steph1

aidan24326 wrote: »

Nope. The government said at the time it was intended to try and cut down underage drinking. They never actually said how that would happen, because they haven't a clue of course. It wouldn't surprise me if it was really a deal with the publicans to help boost flagging pub trade (or something else like that at least).

Yes I would be inclined to agree with you there but here in the West of Ireland the pub trade is dead at least during the week and its probably because of a few other factors e.g. getting bagged on the way to work which seems to be a common occurrence here.
Go into any major supermarket and stocking up on the booze has become part of the weekly shopping trip and people stay at home and drink at home some of them alone which is going to cause its own problems.
Think now this has backfired on them. I dont see any increases in people going to pubs and I know this as I am a taxi driver and this has led to a large decrease in my own business mid-week.

aidan24326

steph1 wrote: »

Yes I would be inclined to agree with you there but here in the West of Ireland the pub trade is dead at least during the week and its probably because of a few other factors e.g. getting bagged on the way to work which seems to be a common occurrence here.
Go into any major supermarket and stocking up on the booze has become part of the weekly shopping trip and people stay at home and drink at home some of them alone which is going to cause its own problems.
Think now this has backfired on them. I dont see any increases in people going to pubs and I know this as I am a taxi driver and this has led to a large decrease in my own business mid-week.

I'm originally from the West myself so I'm aware of how the pub trade has been hit in the rural areas especially. I have no idea if there was really any kind of deal with the publicans or anything like that, I was just throwing it out there as the type of thing that might have happened, because clearly the underage thing doesn't really stack up. And we're already well aware that politicians routinely lie about stuff like this (in fact at this stage it would probably be much more of a shock to find a politician actually telling the truth). I guess there's a reason former lawyers do well in the political sphere!

def

aidan24326 wrote: »

Nope. The government said at the time it was intended to try and cut down underage drinking. They never actually said how that would happen, because they haven't a clue of course. It wouldn't surprise me if it was really a deal with the publicans to help boost flagging pub trade (or something else like that at least).

dropping the age ,would do pubs a huge favour ,even if the teens were just buying a single ,coke most days ,20euro pocket money =4 points....

the penaltys for selling drink need to be better enforced and stricter,,and when i say that ,,this story is not what i mean ,,(happened to a friend of an older(50)friend

man walks up to offlicence ,,a teens standing there maybe 17,,mister please would ye get me 6 cans?,,,man says sure i was once the same,,,gets the drink ,,,steps outside looks around kids gone ,, replaced buy two gardai ,,it was a fec*in sting , hes fined nothing happens to the shop , no lie,,i think that is sick

in amsterdam ..when a cafe sells pot to a under 18 or allows them on the premises the place gets shut down and is never allowed open again and the people get fined ,as a result the second you walk up to the counter or are seen on the premises if id is not presented you are told to leave ,no ifs ands or buts definately no pot, i tryed it i was 17 but i had a beard ,looking back i feel a bit ashamed knowing if i had been caught it would have ended a few jobs ,and a lot of peoples fun...all in the name of my own fun, but then again i was fully bearded fairly well protected from eyes seeking under agers ,

that said you could use "stings" like this to enforce the laws get teens who have broken the law and are willing to change ,instead of sentencing them to ....nothing ,put them to use ,working with the gardai testing shops/pubs not people ,maybe not...

steph1

Well I am originally a Dub myself but living now in Mayo and I do like it here. But business in general is in a big downturn. The pubs are finding it hard I would say to attract any custom mid week but then again if people have to drive to work as most would in rural areas they are not going to run the risk of getting bagged. Also the smoking ban did not help either. So there are a number of issues here.
I have to say that I disagree with the 10pm closing of off licences. It is not fair on those who work late hours and might fancy a wine or a beer with their supper. Nothing wrong with that. We really are turning into the nanny state. I have been in other countries and have been into shops and even a takeaway in places like Spain and Greece and they have beer in the fridge which you can get at any time of the day or night and you dont see the level of drunkeness that I see here at the weekends. People just seem to go awol here with drink. Also I wish that there was some way to stagger the times that places empty out on a Saturday night. All out on the street at once and all pissed is a receipe for disaster and leads to all sorts of carry on.