Triax MPEG-4 DTT Receiver & HD Satellite and SD DTT MPEG 4 Combi Receiver

KELTICKNIGHTT

not a big difference between the 527 and 537 model outside of cert

watty

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

not a big difference between the 527 and 537 model outside of cert

ST-HD527 CI : Designed for Europe Mainland. No Freeview, Freesat or MHEG5 or Saorview, slot for mainland Europe PayTV CAM (Terrestrial or Satellite subscription services). CI is no use to most in Ireland. No Good for Topup TV SkySports in UK as it's not CI+ and no Freeview. Only basic Audio /Video compatibility in Ireland. Not 100% compatible in Ireland.

ST-HD537: Specifically for Irish Market. MHEG5 included. No facility for PayTV as that is wasted cost as there is virtually no payTV market outside of Sky/UPC who only allow their own boxes. It might be able to provide a UK FTA EPG via Internet, which would not break the Freesat rules. 100% Irish Digital Compatible even if not certified. In theory should be 100% compatible for Saorsat alone if MHEG5 is not disabled in Satellite mode. Not sure if any Diseqc, so may not do UK FTA + Saorsat.

From http://www.rte.ie/saorview/receiving.html

Key elements of the receiver specification include the following:

1. The receiver needs to be capable of decoding both Standard Definition (SD) and High Definition (HD) MPEG 4 signals. This is important as RTÉ is planning to replace its current SD RTÉ Two service with an RTÉ Two HD service on SAORVIEW. More HD services are likely to follow in the future.

2. The receiver needs to have MHEG5 middleware to decode RTÉ’s proposed new Digital Aertel Service and other possible interactive services.

See also http://www.saortv.info/about/mheg5/

BIG Difference. The ST-HD537 is particularly intended for Irish Market, not just a question of Certification and in reality the ST-HD527 was developed for Mainland European Market, including Terrestrial and Satellite PayTV.

scruffy66

STB wrote: »

Dont buy one.

There is a combo box about to come on the market that will do 7 day epg for both and LESS than 200.

Any sign of this box coming on the market stb , it would be great to have this on the market for the SAORVIEW launch in the summer .

It would also be great if humax would do some adjustments to their humax + box so we could record the SAORSAT channels and maybe other manufacturers of freesat hd and freesat hd+ boxes would follow suit, after all the market for freesat in england is quite small and to make these boxes with diseqc switches in them would be cheap and im sure there is a market for this in England as well, ie [access to epg and ability to watch and record channels from hotbird and astra 19 etc.

My wish list keeps getting BIGGER and BIGGER

watty

Humax does do Diseqc.
Diseqc is no extra HW and small amount of SW. The SW turns the 22kHz on/off anyway for band select. Diseqc is just pulse coded 22kHz.

The alleged Saorsat numbers are 2% of Irish Population, which is about 5% of UK Population. So not much extra market sadly.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

Humax does do Diseqc.
Diseqc is no extra HW and small amount of SW. The SW turns the 22kHz on/off anyway for band select. Diseqc is just pulse coded 22kHz.

The alleged Saorsat numbers are 2% of Irish Population, which is about 5% of UK Population. So not much extra market sadly.

But thats what i was saying there is a market in england for this other wise why would Humax and Technisat have the diseqc switch installed, as i say
there is a huge population in England that english is not their first language.
Just a bit of tweaking would make these boxes more accessible to non Freesat channels and of course recording should be an option.

we would be just benefiting from something, that is being improved upon for
the english market.

You dont really believe that 2% figure do you, its going to be about choice and price [ 28/ 9 degrees or 28/ DTT.

watty

No, the 2% is official figure. I think maybe closer to 10% or more will use Saorsat, if a "Freesat HD" PVR works on it sensibly.

I have no idea why the "other channel" feature is gratuitously sort of broken on "Freesat HD" Humax (which has Diseqc) and why it's better on Sagecom (which inexplicably has no Diseqc control).

All Sat receivers should have Diseqc.
It should be possible to add non-EPG channels to Favourites and record by manual Schedule at least.

There is non reason I think of that they should emulate Sky, and EU legislation should be expanded to make non-PayTV platform channels equally Accessible. Premiere in Germany lost in Court and that establish principle that FTA non-EPG channels have to work. But there is no legislation to define how easy that should be.

Light touch regulation is favoured because the theory it helps competition and that more competition helps consumer. Both these views are fallacies. Light touch regulation most just favours the largest company.

Winters

Picked up the ST-HD537 today, was looking at the MVision box but ended up going for the Triax. Smaller than I expected but nothing quite like a good typo on the back panel.

stanley1

any pros or cons to report on this box.

Winters

Very happy with it so far anyway, need to start playing with it only just got everything back together.

What was odd is the HDMI cable that came with it didn't seem to work, got a warning with no message. Changed it to a better HDMI cable I had lying about and have not had a problem with it at all since. I'll report back with more once I get used to it and figure more out.

STB

I agree it is specifically designed for Ireland, but on the back of an existing chipset and box family. If it is dvb-t tuner that is on board then it will be of no attraction to the UK market who use dvb-t2. The addition of MHEG5 whilst making it compatible with Saorview doesnt necessarily make it a good box.

• They should have included CI slots. Lots of people use third party subs and this will be an x for that group.
• Does the PVR facility work ?
• 7 day epg for sat. If there is an unofficial firmware that does the epggrab OTA like the Fortec Passions did then its a sellable box.

Whilst the 2% is the figure used for bad terrestrial reception fill in's a high percentage of the country may well choose to add it an existing setup if -

• Existing setups such as Freesat boxes allow free integration.
• A decent supply chain exist for sat solutions for reception at affordable prices.

watty

Hardly anyone uses 3rd party subs. A CI adds significant expense.

80 % sub UPC or Sky. This is a box for pay TV refusniks. Not subscribers to Al Jazeera or Tring etc, a very small percentage of the rest have other Mainland Europe sub.

The Satellite part is a pain without Freesat. Since Freesat is 40+ watchable TV and decent BBC interactive, I'd rather have a Freesat supporting box with bad support for Irish Digital than vice versa. But maybe it works with BBC interactive even though it might need to rely on internet for EPG info.

For people used to a lidl/B&Q/Aldi style sat Box, it will be fine for satellite and do Irish TV fine. but far too expensive. Nearly the price of a cheapest Irish Compatible TV. Nearly 1/2 price of a 42" HDTV for Saorview.

Anyway, I've just finished making my 8m Cat5e HDMI adaptor (just soldering and a €7 HDMI cable cut in half with 2x shielded Cat5e cables) to have PC with 2x Sat DVB-S2 PCI cards and Dual USB stick to have PC quad tuner recording in my radio shack. USB extension cable with RF cordless keyboard / Mouse for Living room. GT210 €40 card to do the 1080p50 properly.

It's too little of a product for too much money.

Winters

I already had Samsung tv so this was more a good way to get more/better reception on the existing Irish channels I had and boost that with feeding off the current Sky dish to get the UK ones. I was previously just running analog terrestrial which was a waste with a decent tv.

Just need to poke around the EPG more and try and clean up all the channels and find any that I don't have already tuned in. I have not tried the PVR yet, need to get one of my hard drives cleared and plug it in, going to do that this week. I really wasn't interested in any of the CI slots, this was more or less purely to gain access to the Saorview channels and the UK FTA.

Cost didn't bother me, think it was close enough to the value of a lot of the other combo prices, was also the easiest to pick up in time for bbcHD coverage of the 6 Nations next weekend

STB

scruffy66 wrote: »

Any sign of this box coming on the market stb , it would be great to have this on the market for the SAORVIEW launch in the summer .

It would also be great if humax would do some adjustments to their humax + box so we could record the SAORSAT channels and maybe other manufacturers of freesat hd and freesat hd+ boxes would follow suit, after all the market for freesat in england is quite small and to make these boxes with diseqc switches in them would be cheap and im sure there is a market for this in England as well, ie [access to epg and ability to watch and record channels from hotbird and astra 19 etc.

My wish list keeps getting BIGGER and BIGGER

QBOX HD Mini COMBO LINUX BOX - 199 EURO (except its more €250 now)

bbeeforsalmon

I hope to buy this box in the next day or 2, rather than wait for the saorview certification.

Can I use the RF out and LNB Out to carry the signals to the next room without the need for a Tri link kit?

If this is possible can I use a TV Aerial & Satellite Combiner to run one cable direct to the 2nd TV or to the current distribution amp used for terrestrial tv?

The 2nd TV is about 10 yrs old - will it work at all?

STB

bbeeforsalmon wrote: »

I hope to buy this box in the next day or 2, rather than wait for the saorview certification.

Can I use the RF out and LNB Out to carry the signals to the next room without the need for a Tri link kit?

If this is possible can I use a TV Aerial & Satellite Combiner to run one cable direct to the 2nd TV or to the current distribution amp used for terrestrial tv?

The 2nd TV is about 10 yrs old - will it work at all?

The LNB can be used to daisy chain to another satellite box and only then would you be able to watch the same transponder. You need to run another cable direct from a Quad LNB to another satellite box in order to watch other stations in the next room.

The RF loopthrough will carry the RF so that you can connect it to another mpeg4 digital set top box OR to carry the analogue RF to your TV. In other words it depends on the capabilities of your TV. No digital tuner - no digital terrestrial. Most TVs that old will only have analogue tuners.

Are you asking about an RF modulator ? ie watch the same station in the next room ? Then you will need to junction the combo box off the VCR Scart output to an RF modulator/old video recorder.

bbeeforsalmon

Thanks for the reply STB.
Yes I am talking about a modulator, in particular the one below and would hope to use a sky eye with it when I replace the old TV with a digital one.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/triax-trilink-kit.html

For the moment I think I will buy a new UHF aerial for saorview channels for use with the sthd537 for the main tv only and leave the current aerials and amps in place to feed the old analogue telly (in fact I have 2). When I get rid of these I can get the modulator to connect the 537 to 2 tv's.

Would it be ok to have the 2 uhf aerials on the one pole?

Hope this makes sense.

The Cush

bbeeforsalmon wrote: »

For the moment I think I will buy a new UHF aerial for saorview channels for use with the sthd537 for the main tv only and leave the current aerials and amps in place to feed the old analogue telly (in fact I have 2). When I get rid of these I can get the modulator to connect the 537 to 2 tv's.

Would it be ok to have the 2 uhf aerials on the one pole?

The existing "analogue" aerial should also do for Saorview just run a cable from a distribution amp to the main TV.

bbeeforsalmon

Thanks to The Cush for that - good thinking.

I didn't say that I also have an analogue BBC etc ariel which I hope to retain for the moment for my old tv's. The distribution amp is distributing both ariels in the one coax so this is what i will be connecting to the 537 as suggested by yourself - I hope this is ok???

The sat dish will supply the BBC etc digital channels for the new tv (no built in receiver) via the 537.

scruffy66

There is no doubt that Freetoair / saorview or freesat / saorview[saorsat] is and will be an alternative to pay TV.

But it is never going to be truly successful as an alternative to pay tv until both systems can be integrated in the one box with proper epg , red button ,automatic down loads , with choices of sd, hd and Hd + boxes.

Hopefully If this can happen it could end up being as big a success as Freeview is across the water and a real alternative to sky/ upc

watty

In UK they only need Freeview. Or Freesat if there is no signal.
Here we are wanting a local Terrestrial Service and Foreign Satellite Service that has proprietary data content. The likelihood of a true Freesat HD + Irish Digital Terrestrial (even if not Saorview Certified) PVR is slim to zero.

FreesatHD + (Saorsat via Diseqc and Other Channels in Favorites) is best hope for a future single box fully compatible with "Freesat HD" solution. That only needs small software change to existing "Freesat HD" PVRs.

Tony

Just spoke with the guys in Armstrongs who say the Saorview certification is held up with software issues.

watty

That's the advantage of certification. You can't be 100% sure for future simply using off air signal or reading the specs and ticking the boxes. Teracom actually verify compliance.

There is always a small risk with non-certified products, even when they "tick all the boxes".

Sam Russell

Yes that is true, but certification requires compliance with all issues, however trivial. For example, the detection of the signal strength needs to be displayed in a particular way that in no way effects the day to day operation of the unit.

I think that RTE NL should work towards self-certification as any modification of a unit would require re-certification. In other words, every new model needs a new certificate. Surely, once a company has certified a product, it is able to self-certify compliance.

It is a system that is not over-worked by the manufacturers. They appear to be happy to ignore the whole Saorview process.

watty

Well given the "false starts" to Irish Digital since 1999 and number of False start dates due to STUPID PayTV process from 2007 to 2010, I can understand that.

Philips appears to think we still using 2001 spec and not Nov 2008/Feb 2008 spec. (MHP rather than MHEG5).

I'm afraid self certification is a bit of a non-starter. Perdition is that way.

Tony

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that RTE NL should work towards self-certification as any modification of a unit would require re-certification.

RTE ruled this out when I met with them.

Sam Russell

Tony wrote: »

RTE ruled this out when I met with them.

Any reason?

Tony

Sam Russell wrote: »

Any reason?

They said they did not want to go that way becuse of others experience but to be honest I did not understand the logic.

Between 20K saorview certifiction fee and triax limiting the wholesale chain I don't have too much faith in the marketing logic going on here to be brutally honest. Triax box costing 60% more wholesale than the ferguson combo makes no commercial sense at all if growing the market is the object.

STB

Tony wrote: »

They said they did not want to go that way becuse of others experience but to be honest I did not understand the logic.

Between 20K saorview certifiction fee and triax limiting the wholesale chain I don't have too much faith in the marketing logic going on here to be brutally honest. Triax box costing 60% more wholesale than the ferguson combo makes no commercial sense at all if growing the market is the object.

And you are right if you want to ship lots of units you dont control distribution, unless of course you are trying to control the price. Well the product isnt certified as yet so there is no controlling factor.

Just looking into this area of MHEG5 bundling. I have come across a box that is widespread on the satellite market for all the wrong reasons (yes one of those boxes that thinks its your birthday) retailing for €90. Its being cloned to death. However the original manufacturers have a new Twin PVR version of it which has a modular approach to tuners and is based on the ST 7105 chipset, oh yeah it does MHEG5.

watty

Once you bother to figure out MHEG5, it's a zero cost.

Guessing:
I'd say teracom was picked when someone was sure Boxer was it for payTV. There are much cheaper certification labs. Sadly people can't be trusted to self-certify.

Sam Russell

Tony wrote: »

They said they did not want to go that way becuse of others experience but to be honest I did not understand the logic.

There is no logic if they are insisting that every iteration of a design must be re-certified. Take Sony, they produce a range of TVs, do all need seperate certification? Oh, what a surprise, no Sony TVs have been certified.

If the requirement was that a representative product was certified, and then the manufacturer could self-certify products after that. In other words, having cleard the jump, he knows what is involved. He then applies his new found knowledge to his complete range. Most products in a range are based on the same chassis and firmware with modifications where necessary. The following year's products are developments of this years. That is the way the business works.

It is ridiculous to expect manufacturers to go along with this nonsense.

Apogee

STB wrote: »

Just looking into this area of MHEG5 bundling. I have come across a box that is widespread on the satellite market for all the wrong reasons (yes one of those boxes that thinks its your birthday) retailing for €90. Its being cloned to death. However the original manufacturers have a new Twin PVR version of it which has a modular approach to tuners and is based on the ST 7105 chipset, oh yeah it does MHEG5.

Does this box have a name or is it the fourth secret of Fatima?

byte

Apogee wrote: »

Does this box have a name or is it the fourth secret of Fatima?

I assume it's some Dreambox model? *shrug*

liamtech

Does the new triax support BBC Red Button Features through satellite - being MHEG5 one would assume it does - But my mother always warned me about assumption being the mother of all **** ***!

I just think potential users should know all of the facts and features, which are currently unknown

Tony

Since its a Freesat feature would this not be unlikely unless they find some way of making it work with an internet derived EPG?

liamtech wrote: »

Does the new triax support BBC Red Button Features through satellite - being MHEG5 one would assume it does

STB

Apogee wrote: »

Does this box have a name or is it the fourth secret of Fatima?

Ahh theres interest. Such a drama queen, I know.

Interesting thing. 2 models under this name on the market. One has an Ali chipset (the one that is all over European/British websites under a variety of names including Openbox S9 but with single tuner and aimed at c/s clientele).

The other (this one) from the original OEM has the ST 7105 and is the new PVR twin tuner version. Because the other one is so rampant, its difficult to get your hand on this one, mind you its only new.

Some of the components dont inspire confidence. Infact they look like they might burn your house down, but you asked...... I dont have a price yet. Anorak Warning: Contains pictures of insides of box and modules etc.

http://openbox.ua/receivers/s9/

I've a list of new linux boxes coming out - many you may have seen before but which are now being released under new names with available modules (wifi etc). I'll post them in a new thread, there are a good few.

watty

Tony wrote: »

Since its a Freesat feature would this not be unlikely unless they find some way of making it work with an internet derived EPG?

I've heard that the red button is independent of Freesat EPG, because it's MHEG5.

Anyone with Sat card in Win7 PC care to comment?

watty

Unless it can take a Dual Tuner USB stick for DTT, it's not a full DTT/Sat PVR solution.


2 x PCI DVB-S2 S3200 Technotrend and 2x DTT in a single USB Stick on PC.

Gerry Wicklow

watty wrote: »

I've heard that the red button is independent of Freesat EPG, because it's MHEG5.

Anyone with Sat card in Win7 PC care to comment?

On my hybrid FreeView / FTA satellite Win7 setup the coloured buttons are only available on DTT and function perfectly. (MHEG5 text and ch301 content)

liamtech

The 537 does function with BBC interactive services - but thus far only with their textual services - the multi-screen options are as of yet inaccessible - i received confirmation when a friend got one of these boxes this morning - i dropped over to see it in action - VERY IMPRESSIVE - Might actually be worth the money - The menu system is extremely freesat like - down to the way it scans channels, and the layout - id say a few firmware updates from now and who knows!

Hopefully he will send me some pictures and i will post them

The fact that his multiscreen options are not working does not mean they wont work for everyone - i notcied the signal quality and strength of 12441V was very low from his satellite dish - I also noticed previously on my freesat box that in times of severe weather multiscreen use became unstable - And there are 48kmh winds today

Antenna

STB wrote: »

can be used to daisy chain to another satellite box and only then would you be able to watch the same transponder.

More than just the same transponder - other transponders of the same polarisation and same (either High or Low) section of band. That's approx 25% probability.
For example with the first receiver on Channel 4, you will have some BBC1 regions working (such as BBC1 London) but not others (such as BBC1 NI) on the second (chained) receiver

http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

Antenna

STB wrote: »

Kilkenny
Okay go to the dvb-t tuner and manual scan channel 52.

Mt Leinster, which is what would be covering Kilkenny city is not on 52. I assume its still on Ch 45.
You're thinking of a transmitter which is in south County Kilkenny listed on 52 for DTT to cover Carrick-on-Suir etc. But it doesn't cover the whole county of Kilkenny as well.

Winters

liamtech wrote: »

The 537 does function with BBC interactive services - but thus far only with their textual services - the multi-screen options are as of yet inaccessible - i received confirmation when a friend got one of these boxes this morning - i dropped over to see it in action - VERY IMPRESSIVE - Might actually be worth the money - The menu system is extremely freesat like - down to the way it scans channels, and the layout - id say a few firmware updates from now and who knows!

Hopefully he will send me some pictures and i will post them

The fact that his multiscreen options are not working does not mean they wont work for everyone - i notcied the signal quality and strength of 12441V was very low from his satellite dish - I also noticed previously on my freesat box that in times of severe weather multiscreen use became unstable - And there are 48kmh winds today

Here is a picture of BBC text running earlier that I took. It wont show the video streams like my Sky box does but these can be tuned in separately anyway.

Only thing I can't figure out at the moment is how to re-arrange the channels. Somewhat annoying having the ones I use regularly all scattered about even after deleting a load of the channels which prove to be nothing more than a waste of transponders on the astra satellites. Going to check out the pvr this evening once I finish cleaning up space on a spare hard drive.

Mayo Exile

liamtech wrote: »

The 537 does function with BBC interactive services - but thus far only with their textual services - the multi-screen options are as of yet inaccessible - i received confirmation when a friend got one of these boxes this morning - i dropped over to see it in action - VERY IMPRESSIVE - Might actually be worth the money - The menu system is extremely freesat like - down to the way it scans channels, and the layout - id say a few firmware updates from now and who knows!

Hopefully he will send me some pictures and i will post them

The fact that his multiscreen options are not working does not mean they wont work for everyone - i notcied the signal quality and strength of 12441V was very low from his satellite dish - I also noticed previously on my freesat box that in times of severe weather multiscreen use became unstable - And there are 48kmh winds today

Could/can you manually tune in these BBC multi-screens and store them in as separate channels on this box using the VPID/APID numbers available on websites such as Lyngsat I wonder?

watty

I wonder why the Text application works and the "button" application doesn't?

None to check on Saorview yet unfortunately. Pity they don't have a simple demo or game. There are plenty of free MHEG5 game demos they could stick on on the Carousel.

watty

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Could/can you manually tune in these BBC multi-screens and store them in as separate channels on this box using the VPID/APID numbers available on websites such as Lyngsat I wonder?

I imagine they appear as Stream1 .. Stream6 etc. They do on DVBviewer, ProgDVB and every Setbox I've ever set up on an automatic scan.

The problem is dual, quad and hex stream frames where the MHEG5 takes one part of frame an shows it either full screen, PIP or embedded in text at correct shape.

BBC are planning on increasing interactive content.

Maybe there will be software update.

Apogee

watty wrote: »

I wonder why the Text application works and the "button" application doesn't?

Perhaps because the 'red button' application redirects to the streams which are identified specially in the Sky/Freesat EPG and the MHEG5 app can't readily identify those streams on a FTA box?

ISTR it took the BBC quite a bit of time to implement the multiscreen red button on the Freesat boxes, long after they were initially launched.

watty

That's as good an explanation, actually best I've heard.

I can't get my head round a solution to that without it essentially being a Freesat box, seeing as I don't even know how an MHEG5 app identifies a video/audio stream even on plain vanilla DVB.

liamtech

It seems like a fine digital box- according to my pal the menu system is a bit annoying- the channels are completely out of order with no way to move, edit or rename them - All one can do is delete channels - Havent found a solution for him yet -

In short the 537 has many benefits of freesat - but some of the hindrance too - such as being incapable of moving channels in the guide -

Most curiously he reports the unit does not pick up the BBC feeds discussed above?!?! The only boxes im aware of that have this issue are freesat boxes - this only serves to reinforce the idea that this box is a freesat box in all but name!!!

STB

Antenna wrote: »

More than just the same transponder - other transponders of the same polarisation and same (either High or Low) section of band. That's approx 25% probability.
For example with the first receiver on Channel 4, you will have some BBC1 regions working (such as BBC1 London) but not others (such as BBC1 NI) on the second (chained) receiver

http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

Em - Most people operate favourite channel lists and dont have the whole of Astra's satellite regional results in their pruned list. I know this because I have went through a lot of satellite/combo boxes and know their limitations. The litmus test is for which is when it comes to recording on a single tuner dvb-s2/combo box and what you can watch whilst recording, which diaplays channels on the same transponder only, normally 3-5 channels. The very same principle for the very same limitational reasons. And never ITV/Ch 4 and BBC.

Antenna wrote: »

Mt Leinster, which is what would be covering Kilkenny city is not on 52. I assume its still on Ch 45.

You're thinking of a transmitter which is in south County Kilkenny listed on 52 for DTT to cover Carrick-on-Suir etc. But it doesn't cover the whole county of Kilkenny as well.

And I keep making that mistake. Your absolutely right, Mt Leinster to the east is covering Kilkenny City, on 45 not Suir Valley which is on 52. Cheers.

Mayo Exile

watty wrote: »

I imagine they appear as Stream1 .. Stream6 etc. They do on DVBviewer, ProgDVB and every Setbox I've ever set up on an automatic scan.

The problem is dual, quad and hex stream frames where the MHEG5 takes one part of frame an shows it either full screen, PIP or embedded in text at correct shape.

BBC are planning on increasing interactive content.

Maybe there will be software update.

Cheers watty. Was thinking of this as I stored the BBC streams at 12.441V (stream 3 0 etc) as individual channels on a Strong FTA receiver using the VPID/APID numbers. Handy way of getting them if you cant access them interactively. 7 streams are available at this frequency.