Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Zebra3

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Route map

I think the decision to go with shorter trams is short sighted and a serious error of judgement. The 60m length is not much more than the luas green line and they are absoutely wedged morning rushour. Add to that airport passangers with suitcases and luggage and were all set for another fiasco.

Im just back from Munich an I had the pleasure of ridinding around on the ubahn and sbahn. Munich is not terribly larger than Dublin and they opperate up to 120m heavy rail trains (3 double carriges). Taking into account the larger population, 90m trams would have been the right choice for the paltry extra expense.

Look on the bright side.

It'll never be built.

crushproof

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Route map

I think the decision to go with shorter trams is short sighted and a serious error of judgement. The 60m length is not much more than the luas green line and they are absoutely wedged morning rushour. Add to that airport passangers with suitcases and luggage and were all set for another fiasco.

Im just back from Munich an I had the pleasure of ridinding around on the ubahn and sbahn. Munich is not terribly larger than Dublin and they opperate up to 120m heavy rail trains (3 double carriges). Taking into account the larger population, 90m trams would have been the right choice for the paltry extra expense.

Any sensible person can see that the 60m length in totally inadequate and will lead to spending more in the future (as well as the associated closures - remember the DART in the early 2000s).

But they don't care, why would they? When was the last time they had to rely on the bus from Swords? Or get stuck in gridlock on the N3? Or get delayed on the DART due to congestion on the Loopline bridge? I'm fuming tonight.

Zebra3

crushproof wrote: »

Any sensible person can see that the 60m length in totally inadequate and will lead to spending more in the future (as well as the associated closures - remember the DART in the early 2000s).

But they don't care, why would they? When was the last time they had to rely on the bus from Swords? Or get stuck in gridlock on the N3? Or get delayed on the DART due to congestion on the Loopline bridge? I'm fuming tonight.

Yep, any problems with getting about and you call the guards.

Ministers should have to spend one day a week on public transport.

murpho999

crushproof wrote: »

Any sensible person can see that the 60m length in totally inadequate and will lead to spending more in the future (as well as the associated closures - remember the DART in the early 2000s).

But they don't care, why would they? When was the last time they had to rely on the bus from Swords? Or get stuck in gridlock on the N3? Or get delayed on the DART due to congestion on the Loopline bridge? I'm fuming tonight.

Well the difference must be the frequencies. Luas's come at least every 5 minutes and with the new Metro they are saying every 2 mnutes find that hard to believe as the Dart is only every 15 minutes, even at peak times which is a disgrace.

Irish Steve

The only use of this shambles in respect of the airport will be people that work there, and don't need to bring luggage of any sort, given that there is NO connection to ANY other public transport system at either end, so if you were to be so stupid as to expect to connect to anything, this half baked mess won't provide it.

I can't help wondering if the Dardistown stop will become the one for staff to use, there will be a new off airport staff car park there, so that the DAA (effectively the government) can develop the massive number of acres that are at present in use for (essential) staff parking for other things.

scouserstation

This is nothing but a PR stunt, election buying by the government .But what is really depressing me is that I sit in my car every day going to work in heavy traffic that seems to be getting worse every year and because of where i live public transport just isnt an option for me.
This city badly needs investment in railway infrastructure, we need to have a network of lines serving all major suburbs and population centres, and we need an underground railway in the city centre, its as simple as that. We need it now, not in 15, 20 or 30 years. If things keep going the way they are then this city is going to grind to a halt within the next couple of years. I just hope that the next government comes in and has the balls to make the changes that are needed in our public transport network.

donvito99

Irish Steve wrote: »

The only use of this shambles in respect of the airport will be people that work there, and don't need to bring luggage of any sort, given that there is NO connection to ANY other public transport system at either end, so if you were to be so stupid as to expect to connect to anything, this half baked mess won't provide it.

I can't help wondering if the Dardistown stop will become the one for staff to use, there will be a new off airport staff car park there, so that the DAA (effectively the government) can develop the massive number of acres that are at present in use for (essential) staff parking for other things.

Connects to the green line at Stephens green, and really ought to connect with the red line on OCS and commuter/future dart at drumcondra.

But no matter as this is never getting built.

liam24

donvito99 wrote: »

Connects to the green line at Stephens green, and really ought to connect with the red line on OCS and commuter/future dart at drumcondra.

But no matter as this is never getting built.

If this gets built and there isn't an exit within 20m of the platform of the red Luas at Abbey street, it's an abject failure of a project.

Bray Head

The context is the still historically-low spend on capital investment as a share of GDP.None of the media reports has highlighted this.

Capital plan is [URL="file:///C:/Users/enrights/Downloads/NCIP-Online.pdf"]here[/URL].


Transport capital spend is set to nearly double by 2021, but slowly, and from its very low base of just over €1bn now.



By way of context, in 2008 capital expenditure on land transport was nearly €3bn.

Split between road and public transport. Public transport spend actually set to fall by 2017 (presumably as Luas Cross City gets finished).

prunudo

As somebody who will probably never use this 'possible' service (I live in north wicklow) it still really annoys me the way the media have lapped up this announcement.
Listening to the misinter yesterday all I could hear was political waffle. He keeps going on about value for money and redesigning projects to suit our needs. There doesn't seem to be any desire to be future proofing these projects, instead it's just little sound bites of BS.
The government had a great chance to start something good regarding public transport yet they've sold a lame duck I fear, between this and the scraping of Dart underground.
And what's to stop the next government scrapping MN in 4-5 years because it doesn't suit THEIR wishes, absolutely nothing.

Lenton Lane

Grandeeod wrote: »

A post in this very thread (page 103) going back to January 2012. It was right on the money. Sorry I don't know how to link it properly. But here's a screen grab image of it. Well worth a read.

Big pat on the back!

Attachment not found.

You must be very pleased with yourself ;-)

Lenton Lane

jvan wrote: »

As somebody who will probably never use this 'possible' service (I live in north wicklow) it still really annoys me the way the media have lapped up this announcement.
Listening to the misinter yesterday all I could hear was political waffle. He keeps going on about value for money and redesigning projects to suit our needs. There doesn't seem to be any desire to be future proofing these projects, instead it's just little sound bites of BS.
The government had a great chance to start something good regarding public transport yet they've sold a lame duck I fear, between this and the scraping of Dart underground.
And what's to stop the next government scrapping MN in 4-5 years because it doesn't suit THEIR wishes, absolutely nothing.

You are 100% correct. MN will never see the light of day.

MJohnston

At least it seems like the internet media readers aren't convinced by this latest bs:
http://www.thejournal.ie/metro-north-will-it-happen-2359300-Sep2015/

Grandeeod

Lenton Lane wrote: »

You must be very pleased with yourself ;-)

Stop that.:D

Lenton Lane

Grandeeod wrote: »

Stop that.:D

Speaking of which, the Irish Railway Developments blog weighs in with their own view of the Capital Investment Plan...

https://irishrailwaydevelopments.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/capital-investment-plan-less-to-it-than-meets-the-eye/

medoc

What location at the airport has been proposed for the metro north station? How well do people here think it will integrate with the current terminal layouts etc?

IngazZagni

I am surprised with the extent of negativity but also the contrasting views between this forum and elsewhere. Obviously here there is strong criticism about the plans not going far enough but a huge amount of comments I see on the likes of Facebook are in strong contrast. These people are saying it is a disgrace that they are going ahead with Metro North, it's not needed and a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere. I think it highlights the strong pressure the Government are under from both sides of the argument and this does seem to be a compromise.

Well hopefully in 11 years time we will be celebrating the successful opening on Metro North! Much like the success of Luas, minus the lack of a city centre connection of course.

Edit: I'd also be interested to know the location of the stop at the airport. How close will it be to the terminals etc?

MJohnston

IngazZagni wrote: »

I am surprised with the extent of negativity but also the contrasting views between this forum and elsewhere. Obviously here there is strong criticism about the plans not going far enough but a huge amount of comments I see on the likes of Facebook are in strong contrast. These people are saying it is a disgrace that they are going ahead with Metro North, it's not needed and a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere. I think it highlights the strong pressure the Government are under from both sides of the argument and this does seem to be a compromise.

Well hopefully in 11 years time we will be celebrating the successful opening on Metro North! Much like the success of Luas, minus the lack of a city centre connection of course.

To be frank, this is why democratic politics can be such a ****show sometimes - infrastructure developments (like many other types of development) should be made entirely in a technocratic way, because the general population (and I include myself here) frankly just isn't informed enough to make informed opinions. Instead we constantly sway the opinion of weak-willed career politicians who have little interest in serving the community, rather they're out to protect their next term in office. So instead of the best decision being made, we get the most popular one. This in turn, is why it's so very important that we have competent, non-partisan (not unbiased), and incisive journalists about - but we absolutely don't, at least in the infrastructure sphere.

Bray Head

How else would posters propose we sanction the expenditure of very large amounts of our money other than by the votes of representatives elected by popular ballot?

Zubeneschamali

Bray Head wrote: »

How else would posters propose we sanction the expenditure of very large amounts of our money other than by the votes of representatives elected by popular ballot?

Part of the negative reaction here is caused by the form of the announcement.

Headline: METRO NORTH!

Subhead: 5 year capital plan includes Metro North!

Article: No, not THIS 5 year plan. Maybe the one after next.

crushproof

medoc wrote: »

What location at the airport has been proposed for the metro north station? How well do people here think it will integrate with the current terminal layouts etc?

Good question. Probably a silly questions, but is there a vague chance that they prepared some sort of station underneath Terminal 2....or am I away with faeries? :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

These people are saying it is a disgrace that they are going ahead with Metro North, it's not needed and a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere

this is going to sound ignorant, but anyone saying that area of the city doesn't need a proper rail based transport connection, doesn't have a clue. IF a cheapo option was adequate, it would have been jumped at here years ago by politicians, who see anything spent on anything other than tax cuts or welfare increases as wanton waste!

These people complaining that its OTT etc, what do they want done with the money, more money thrown on the world class welfare rates or what? I am assuming, that is mostly the demographic that has the issue with it...

I don't even know why there are bothering with New Metro North, its saving peanuts in the scheme of things and a good bit inferior options. Stick with original metro north, it already has planning and design done...

I may email FF Td's in the north Dublin area (see if they could get the original metro north on their manifesto, to start asap), it is a big potential vote winner in that area IMO...

say there is a "saving" of €500,000,000 on NMN v OMN, how much of that will now go on the redesign, planning, going through the courts etc & with the remainder, say €400,000,000 a lot of that filters back to the government anyway. So IMO for Dublin and the country to be without this project for another 5 years before it starts, for an inferior project, to save pocket change, is total madness!

donvito99

A lot of the "ah shure how many hospotal beds could ya get for dah" Facebook commenting electorate could be done away with if we had a Government that could sell the benefits of infrastructure and a Dept of Transport with a bit of gusto.

Idbatterim

A lot of the "ah shure how many hospotal beds could ya get for dah"

do they ever ask how many prison spaces we could get for dah?

How many hoshpitel beds could we get if we cut the world class welfare system or the government actually took on the problems with the HSE! This isn't an either or, this third world transport system here is unacceptable and a JOKE for a rich European capital, with so many worlds who's who companies European headquarters here, IFSC etc!

I put this post up on another thread on this forum a minute ago, going to put it here also! See the email I have just sent Alan below!

Just posted the below on the journal.ie article, gonna put it here too. Initially I thought, ok the cost cutting exercise is better than Luas and makes some sense, on further reflection, i.e. the below, I am now not so sure, that is is anything other than a pass the parcel job from FG and Labour!!!

IT (MN a version of it) will happen, the question is when, if they haven't been able to worm their way out of it, despite their best attempts, after that recession, its a matter of time. I wouldn't be surprised to see the start date brought forward, as the current one is a total joke. As usual, things here will grind to a halt, before things get into action. Ok so I have just taken a look at the figures, the Aecom report said revised metro north, would "save" €461,000,000. Now we have to go through consultation, design, appeals, court etc again, what will that cost? then bare in mind that a significant amount of any spent, flows back to the government anyway & that New metro north is an inferior solution. So we have planning permission for a great scheme, that is good to go and Dublin will be left with the current sham scenario for half a decade minimum before construction allegedly commences, when we have planning NOW for a fit for purpose scheme, to save what, the pocket change that has been mentioned?! This is totally insane! If they don't think numbers will be as high as expected when the first report was completed, which is total BS and just a get out option by the way. Simply purchase less rolling stock for day 1, at least that can be rectified quickly and would cut the headline cost, because all they give a toss about is the headline cost, not value...


I just emailed this to Alan Farrell, who arranged the meeting the other night in Swords!



Quote:

Dear Alan, I wished to attend your meeting on Monday, but got delayed in work and then in town at 7:15pm, trying to get from Ranelagh to swords by driving (via the port tunnel), which is ironic, because with Metro North I could get from Ranelagh to Swords in a reasonable and consistent time without a car!


I have to register my disbelief at the current scenario we find ourselves in, great that we didn't get the Luas option out to the airport, that was a complete joke, but from a country that wrote the book on none or inadequate planning and get away with it jobs, nothing would have surprised me!



As usual, things here will grind to a halt, before things get into action. I have just taken a look at the figures, the Aecom report said revised metro north, would "save" €461,000,000. Now we have to go through consultation, design, appeals, court etc again, what will that cost? then bare in mind that a significant amount of any spent, flows back to the government anyway & that New metro north is an inferior solution. So we have planning permission for a great scheme, that is good to go and Dublin will be left with the current sham scenario for half a decade minimum before construction allegedly commences, when we have planning NOW for a fit for purpose scheme, to save what, the pocket change that has been mentioned?! This is totally insane! If they don't think numbers will be as high as expected when the first report was completed, which is total spin and just a get out option by the way. Simply purchase less rolling stock for day 1, at least that can be rectified quickly and would cut the headline cost, because all they care about is the headline cost (and how sellable this is to the various interests), not value...


This isn't some new revised fit for purpose scheme, where the "savings" actually make sense, i.e. something like that which has been proposed New metro north, for a minimum billion euro saving. This is an inferior option with mickey mouse savings., with no planning permission!


I look forward to your response.


Shane ****** (FG voter in 2011)

Zebra3

Bray Head wrote: »

Split between road and public transport. Public transport spend actually set to fall by 2017 (presumably as Luas Cross City gets finished).

It's quite ironic that as our government rolls out its plan to spend money on flood defences due to global warming that they are spending more money on roads than public transport.

You couldn't make up the stupidity of it all. :rolleyes:

Grandeeod

crushproof wrote: »

Good question. Probably a silly questions, but is there a vague chance that they prepared some sort of station underneath Terminal 2....or am I away with faeries? :rolleyes:

You aren't just away with the fairies, you are actively smoking the best weed ever with them.:D

alias no.9

crushproof wrote: »

Good question. Probably a silly questions, but is there a vague chance that they prepared some sort of station underneath Terminal 2....or am I away with faeries? :rolleyes:

There's a rail concourse under T1 believe it or not

Not sure about T2

Grandeeod

alias no.9 wrote: »

There's a rail concourse under T1 believe it or not

Not sure about T2

No there isn't. It's a sub basement and not intended to be a rail concourse.

T2 has nothing despite it being built while MN was in development.

cgcsb

If they are hoping to get it going by 2021, what about the next 6 years? The planning amendments aren't all that extensive. It'll also drag metro north to the next election. Will we also see dart underground reincarnated in 2021? What's actually happening in the next 5 years? Electrification to balbriggan??

donvito99

cgcsb wrote: »

What's actually happening in the next 5 years?

As depressing as it sounds, I think the fairest assessment is fúck all.