A new political party registering in a few weeks

Permabear

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Permabear

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Marcus de Brun

Be jaypers poor auld de brun is on the ropes.

"So you're effectively calling for a 1916-style violent insurrection to depose the elected representatives of the Irish people?"

Why does every revolution have to be a violent one?

Suggested reading:

Life and Times of Ghandi
Civil disobedience by Thoreau

Why so much violence towards the notion that change can and should occur outside of the context of the present broken democratic system.. perhaps your democracy has become the new.. or the old fundamentalism...

Amhran Nua

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

Should I find others within Fis Nua or beyond who also feel that the establishment of a new government would be best achieved on the basis of the aforementioned principles of withdrawl from the Dail and the establishment of an executive committee which can function in the capacity of an alternate political establishment.. I will be delighted to proceed in that direction. in MY opinion this will become more necessary as the present system continues to collapse before our eyes. However I might be wrong and democracy might save the day .... but I am not holding my breath.

That's alright Marcus, thanks for answering honestly and openly. If you could communicate to the rest of the party that it would be interesting to get an authorised representative in, the public would like a chat...

donegalfella wrote: »

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Feel free to start your own, true to the principles of open competition. Amhrán Nua, trendsetters from day one.

Marcus de Brun

donegalfella wrote: »

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What a country we might live in if but a fraction of this anger and anti-newness were directed at our present establishment.

I intend to stand in the next election as a candidate for north Dublin, and for my patients who are shafted by a corupt medical establishment that is protected by a corupt political establishment. If I stand as a Fis Nua candidate or as an independent... or as a member of the Universal Ninny Party I will still have my own opinions and will stick firmly to my distatse for broccoli. Should the opportunity arrise to eject the government and to bring McReavy, Ahern, the Anglo golden circle, the former regulator to justice.... I will be ready and willing to do so.

ei.sdraob

Its hard to beat "Soldiers of Destiny" when it comes to naming parties

Permabear

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Amhran Nua

donegalfella wrote: »

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Oho! This should be good! Have we got an ETA?

Marcus de Brun

I've read both, but I fail to see how the non-violent pacifism of Thoreau or Ghandi relates to your evident admiration for the bloodthirsty fanatics who orchestrated 1916.

Will always remain an admirer of those who are willing to sacrifice more than paper and ink for the sake of Ireland.

I dont think that Pearse and Connolly drank anyones blood... I think they gave their own... despite the laughter of others.... and so that you might be free to call them bloodthirsty and burn the tricolour if you so choose.

Permabear

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imme

interesting article in the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sciencetoday/2010/1014/1224281057593.html
on societal evolution in relation to politics.

Marcus de Brun

Interesting article imme.. certainly makes good sense to identify an evolutionary process in institutions like politics.. however couldnt the same be said for all instiutions... the evolution of medicine, or law or education etc..?

What is most interesting is the picture accompanying the article.. which seems to suggest that the modern careerist politician like those in the photograph have evolved from more primitive ancestors..

yet recent history would seem to patently refute this.. Regardless of political abillities the intellectual calibre of politicians like De Valera, Lemass, Grattan is hardly less evolved than our contemporaries: Bertie, Bush, Swarzenegger..

it would seem that evolution may be moving in the opposite direction and leadership today is more simian than sapien. One need only recall the recent News of the World advertisement with our Former Taoiseach.. making an utter fool out of himself and the state, crouched in a wardrobe drinking tea 'never thought I'd end up in here he he he'... Or our present Taoiseach presenting to radio interviews.. either hung-over of half jarred and the laughing stock of American talk shows..

I have no problem with the concept of political evolution but the direction of that process is more suggestive that complete idiocy is the ultimate end point.

Mahatma coat

@Marcus De Bruin

Hello Good Sir, I wish to lend my support you your fledgling organisation, is there an online form which I may use to register myself as a member of your wonderous organisation????

tomasocarthaigh

Itll end up like Germany, two eco parties, and none with much power.

Marcus de Brun

tomasocarthaigh wrote: »

Itll end up like Germany, two eco parties, and none with much power.

Any political party with but a smidgeon of cop on, common sense, or a relationship with external reality is an 'eco party'.. the degree of eco differs between parties and is hopefully a reflection of the ecological realities of the day.

why go to the bother of writing something that has absolutely no meaning other than suggest your own dissatisfaction with 'eco'

dan_d

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

What a country we might live in if but a fraction of this anger and anti-newness were directed at our present establishment.

I intend to stand in the next election as a candidate for north Dublin, and for my patients who are shafted by a corupt medical establishment that is protected by a corupt political establishment. If I stand as a Fis Nua candidate or as an independent... or as a member of the Universal Ninny Party I will still have my own opinions and will stick firmly to my distatse for broccoli. Should the opportunity arrise to eject the government and to bring McReavy, Ahern, the Anglo golden circle, the former regulator to justice.... I will be ready and willing to do so.

Setting aside evolution....where in North county dublin do you intend to run? And as what - an independent or a member of a party?

And is it not a bit difficult to be seen to be fighting against a corrupt medical establishment that you're a member of, and that (I assume) you've benefitted from over the years?

The reason I ask is that I am a resident of North County Dublin, and I'd be interested to know whether you'll appear on my doorstep. Right now, I don't want to know about politicians, and there's very little any of them can say to make me believe they have anything other than their own self interests at heart. Or that they have any kind of ability to think outside the box, think in terms of the country, rather than the local area. I'm aware you're not actually a politician, however should you appear on my doorstep at some point in the future, that'll be a starter question for you! (and don't quote James Reilly at me, he was a doctor I attended when I was younger and it would take a lot for me to vote for him.....)

Marcus de Brun

Mahatma coat wrote: »

@Marcus De Bruin

Hello Good Sir, I wish to lend my support you your fledgling organisation, is there an online form which I may use to register myself as a member of your wonderous organisation????

Hello Mahatma

Unfortunately I have no 'fledgling organisation'.. however I have recently become a member of a political party that is made up of some good people who are anxious to make a difference. They are called Fis Nua and an application is available on their web site. It is free to join.

M

Marcus de Brun

dan_d wrote: »

Setting aside evolution....where in North county dublin do you intend to run? And as what - an independent or a member of a party?

And is it not a bit difficult to be seen to be fighting against a corrupt medical establishment that you're a member of, and that (I assume) you've benefitted from over the years?

The reason I ask is that I am a resident of North County Dublin, and I'd be interested to know whether you'll appear on my doorstep. Right now, I don't want to know about politicians, and there's very little any of them can say to make me believe they have anything other than their own self interests at heart. Or that they have any kind of ability to think outside the box, think in terms of the country, rather than the local area. I'm aware you're not actually a politician, however should you appear on my doorstep at some point in the future, that'll be a starter question for you! (and don't quote James Reilly at me, he was a doctor I attended when I was younger and it would take a lot for me to vote for him.....)

Dan

I intend to stand a candidate for North Dublin and will be in competition with the well funded Dr. Reilly... I probably wont be quoting him should I be knocking on doors.

My views on the medical establishment that I have benefitted from and am a meber of .. as you correctly point out are outlined in this recent article to the medical times.

State-sanctioned corruption in Irish medicine — Irish Medical Times

I too worry about politicians knocking on my door.. and I wonder if we could come up with some kind of a sign like a star, or a smear of lambs blood on the front door that might keep them/us all away.

Marcus

sensibleken

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

Dan

I intend to stand a candidate for North Dublin and will be in competition with the well funded Dr. Reilly... I probably wont be quoting him should I be knocking on doors.

My views on the medical establishment that I have benefitted from and am a meber of .. as you correctly point out are outlined in this recent article to the medical times.

State-sanctioned corruption in Irish medicine — Irish Medical Times

I too worry about politicians knocking on my door.. and I wonder if we could come up with some kind of a sign like a star, or a smear of lambs blood on the front door that might keep them/us all away.

Marcus

Do you mean Dublin-North? I think it should be clear what constituency you intend to run in.

North Dublin has several constituencies

Marcus de Brun

there were a frightening number of I's in that last post.

IrishTonyO

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

I am not Fis Nua and I do not represent Fis Nua in anay capacity other than being a member..

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

Dan

I intend to stand a candidate for North Dublin and will be in competition with the well funded Dr. Reilly... I probably wont be quoting him should I be knocking on doors.


Marcus

So you are running as an independent? As if you were running for Fis Nua then you would be representing them in some way surely.

Marcus de Brun

I have yet to discuss with the Party whether they would be happy to have me as a candidate for Dublin North or possibly spokesman for health.

If they are, I will happily stand as a Fis Nua candidate. Because I agree with much of Fis Nua Policy and proposals. Most importantly because I believe that good people make a good party... which will make good policy... and so on.

To my mind policy is a simple matter. Politics as we have all forgotton is a branch of the dicipline of philosophy. Once greed is removed from the political establishment policy becomes a simple matter because it is subjected to the rules of philosophy intellect and logic... and is no longer compromised by greed and self interest.

Finding out how many houses are needed by a growing population is a simple statistic that could be accomplished by an inter-cert child. The reason we have 280k empty housing units around the country is not because of poor policy or a lack of policy.. but because policy was and continues to be undermined by greed. It is the same for most policy in health education law, justice...

The Constitution of Ireland expressly prohibts greed of the banking sector and the concentration of national wealth in the hands of a few and the constitution has been flouted and compromised by...greed. The greed is not just of the political establishment.. it is reflective of a need for us to effect a change in our national identity... a change where success is not measured by a number plate on the front of ones car.. or the size of ones bank balance but rather as Martin Luther King has said... by the content of ones character.

Those aspects of Fis Nua policy which I do not agree with I will attempt to change... and in that process I might be convinced of alterations to my own opinions.. the overal judge is that of logic, intellect reason and philosophy... which cannot function in the context of primitive human greed.

Iwasfrozen

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

The Constitution of Ireland expressly prohibts greed of the banking sector and the concentration of national wealth in the hands of a few.

Where?

Marcus de Brun

Article 45
2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:

i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.

ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.

iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.

iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.

IrishTonyO

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

Article 45
2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:

i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.

ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.

iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.

iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.

Article 16 states that any citizen over the age of 21 can run for parliament and parliament is elected by proportional representation, but you don't seem to agree with this

Marcus de Brun

Article 16 states that any citizen over the age of 21 can run for parliament and parliament is elected by proportional representation, but you don't seem to agree with this

I have no control over what you choose to "seem". You do your seeming for your own reasons.

"THE MEN who have led Ireland for 25 years have done evil, and they are bankrupt. They are bankrupt in policy, bankrupt in credit, bankrupt now even in words. They have nothing to propose to Ireland, no way of wisdom, no counsel of courage. When they speak, they speak only untruth and blasphemy. Their utterances are no longer the utterances of men. They are the mumblings and the gibberings of lost souls.”
Patrick Pearse Christmas 1915

If you feel it is unconstitutional to seek removal of the boot from our heads then you are indeed entitled to you opinion.

Their are greater and lesser truths in any constitution, the impune devasatation of a National economy and the transferring of half a million of its citizens to the dole ques does not entitle criminals to hide behind their interpretation of Atricle 16.

IrishTonyO

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

Article 16 states that any citizen over the age of 21 can run for parliament and parliament is elected by proportional representation, but you don't seem to agree with this

I have no control over what you choose to "seem". You do your seeming for your own reasons.

I do my 'seeming' from your article and your statements saying an unelected group should run the country. Not very hard to see the reasons there.

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

"THE MEN who have led Ireland for 25 years have done evil, and they are bankrupt. They are bankrupt in policy, bankrupt in credit, bankrupt now even in words. They have nothing to propose to Ireland, no way of wisdom, no counsel of courage. When they speak, they speak only untruth and blasphemy. Their utterances are no longer the utterances of men. They are the mumblings and the gibberings of lost souls.”
Patrick Pearse Christmas 1915

YAWN, quotations, quotations, even the devil can cite scripture for his own purpose

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

If you feel it is unconstitutional to seek removal of the boot from our heads then you are indeed entitled to you opinion.

Their are greater and lesser truths in any constitution, the impune devasatation of a National economy and the transferring of half a million of its citizens to the dole ques does not entitle criminals to hide behind their interpretation of Atricle 16.

I don't feel it is unconstitutional to replace a democratically elected government with an unelected new 'aristocrisy' , it IS unconstitutional.
So you would want people to allow you to run in a democratic election and then try and get rid of the process that gave you power?

Marcus de Brun

"I don't feel it is unconstitutional to replace a democratically elected government with an unelected new 'aristocrisy' , it IS unconstitutional.
So you would want people to allow you to run in a democratic election and then try and get rid of the process that gave you power?"

Your devotion to democracy is interesting.. especially when one considers that democracy has sanctioned: Adolf Hitler and the NAZI's, George W. Bertie Ahern and many more....

In the first instance if you feel that our present government is in its essence a democratically elected government you should examine the figures.

Roughly 60% turn out at a General election. Fianna fail...., even with a majority of over 50% would represent 30% of the voting population (itself a fraction of the population)... however since coalition with unscrupulous smaller parties is the norm these decades.... This means that Fianna fail and their business sponsors to maintain control of the state in spite of the reality that they have been sanctioned to do so by less than 2.5 out of every 10 voters.... I reckon Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot... had a stronger democratic mandate.

I wish to effect political change, however this will not be easily accomplished in the context of a democracy that (in spite of or despite noble ideals) has been corrupted and undermined by the democratic institution itself.

As such I seek election... as that is the only available entry point into Dail Eireann.. however once inside I expect to effect real change in the context of accountability, health, education and the disestablishment of institutional and individual greed as the primary dictator of national policy.

If this can be done by democratic means within the Dail it will be done. If the house can be convinced to bring McCreavy and Ahern to trial and extradition orders made out for those bankers in hiding in America and elsewhere.. I will be happy to proceed. However if as I suspect... this cannot be achieved in the context of a corrupted Dail that is the mere puppet of big business and banking officials. I would not throw the towel in as George Lee has done..

I would at that point consider the establishment of a new Dail and have that new Dail write legislation that is no longer in the service of vested interests but in the service of the country. Naturally that New Dail would initially lack a democratic mandate, however at the next election or a referendum the people of Irealnd would have an opportunity to choose between two political institutions.

If they choose to run with Fianna fail/fianna Gael/Labour ....vis the traditional Dail... I will be happy to emigrate and leve them to it.

However I would enter the Dail under no illusions that change can definately be effected there. Once this becomes clear I would walk... with like-minded individuals Fis Nua or no Fis Nua, Greens, Sin Fein or the Universal Ninny Party.

If there are no like minded individuals and the majority of elected TD's feel as you do... that our democracy will one day come up trumps .... I would be happy to walk alone.. and emigrate. (Vancouver looks quite appealing)

Should the people of Ireland feel that a new Dail is what is needed they will at last have that option.. and indeed the people of Ireland can then decide through referendum or election.

Democracry has its place in the politics of a New Ireland but Democracy has also had a role in the materialism that has come to dominate our national vision.

So in the long answer to your question... Yes... it is my intention to use Democracy in order to change Democracy... in keeping with Darwins notions that all things can and must evolve... and regardless for how much some might wish to stay in the trees.

Justin Collery

IrishTonyO wrote: »

I don't feel it is unconstitutional to replace a democratically elected government with an unelected new 'aristocrisy' , it IS unconstitutional.

Ahh hold on now!

Just because the constitution says you can't do something doesn't make it unconstitutional! :P

There's going to be a LOT of crazies running for election next time out. In case there is any confusion these Fis Nua people pro port to be greens but their economics is straight from the communist manifesto. That makes them communist in my book. Marcus is looking for some form of intelligentsia rule. Communists and intelligentsia don't have a great history, but hey, as I say, lots of crazies out there next time out.

I started out saying how wonderful it was to have a new party, even if I didn't agree with it. Choice is good. However when that party wants to impose the removal of democracy...mmm, interesting.

sensibleken

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

"I don't feel it is unconstitutional to replace a democratically elected government with an unelected new 'aristocrisy' , it IS unconstitutional.
So you would want people to allow you to run in a democratic election and then try and get rid of the process that gave you power?"

Your devotion to democracy is interesting.. especially when one considers that democracy has sanctioned: Adolf Hitler and the NAZI's, George W. Bertie Ahern and many more....

.

aaaand Godwin'd

Marcus de Brun

"when that party wants to impose the removal of democracy...mmm, interesting. "

There is indeed something being 'imposed'... or rather superimposed ...on top of my words. This is very interesting.

My guess is that the process of criticism based upon twisting ... and the inuendo of ....mmm interesting, is actually just as intersting as the notion that democracy has failed us.

It seems to me that in Ireland possibly as a product of our history there is a tendency to be dismissive of new ideas.. rather than consider them on their merits. Possibly because of the unspoken assumption that the dismisser.. is dismissive because deep down ... he or she 'simply knows better' and is wiser or has a better grasp of the facts.

I wonder if this tendency arrises from our Catholic up-bringing? The traditional figure of the distant irish father....? Or our colonial past.... where for many years we were anxious to please and impress our masters... rather than to defend and prove with argument and logic.

It remains a possibility that the individual desire to oppress his own intellect and opt for the sound bites of populist reason... might stem from our history as a subjugated people? In any case, one wonders if the defenders of democracy really enjoy any of the freedoms they attribute to democracy when what they speak are the words of mass opinion... and not those of an individual.

To dismiss an argument as being "un democratic" or "mmmm interesting..." declares nothing other than ones personal affinity for the majority view.

If you wish to defend democracy you should be mature enough to do it with words.. other than pander to the majority view... with the usual pro-democratic hackneyed slurs that we have all heard before.

There are many who will laugh at the notion that democracy has failed but Hyaenas and Chimps can also laugh... why not defend democracy with that same faculty that renders us different to other animals.. and as such enjoy those very freedoms democracy affords us all.

Marcus de Brun

"Marcus is looking for some form of intelligentsia rule. Communists and intelligentsia don't have a great history, but hey, as I say, lots of crazies ...."


Who exactly are these "inteligentsia"

Are these perhaps the intelligent members of society?

I assume that if the intelligent members of society are "crazies".. it would follow that the stupid people are not crazy... and as such ones stupidity is a good reflection of ones intelligence... makes some sense in a crazy sort of way and.... as you say yourself very : "mmmmm interesting"

IrishTonyO

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

"when that party wants to impose the removal of democracy...mmm, interesting. "

There is indeed something being 'imposed'... or rather superimposed ...on top of my words. This is very interesting.

My guess is that the process of criticism based upon twisting ... and the inuendo of ....mmm interesting, is actually just as intersting as the notion that democracy has failed us.

It seems to me that in Ireland possibly as a product of our history there is a tendency to be dismissive of new ideas.. rather than consider them on their merits. Possibly because of the unspoken assumption that the dismisser.. is dismissive because deep down ... he or she 'simply knows better' and is wiser or has a better grasp of the facts.

I wonder if this tendency arrises from our Catholic up-bringing? The traditional figure of the distant irish father....? Or our colonial past.... where for many years we were anxious to please and impress our masters... rather than to defend and prove with argument and logic.

It remains a possibility that the individual desire to oppress his own intellect and opt for the sound bites of populist reason... might stem from our history as a subjugated people? In any case, one wonders if the defenders of democracy really enjoy any of the freedoms they attribute to democracy when what they speak are the words of mass opinion... and not those of an individual.

To dismiss an argument as being "un democratic" or "mmmm interesting..." declares nothing other than ones personal affinity for the majority view.

If you wish to defend democracy you should be mature enough to do it with words.. other than pander to the majority view... with the usual pro-democratic hackneyed slurs that we have all heard before.

There are many who will laugh at the notion that democracy has failed but Hyaenas and Chimps can also laugh... why not defend democracy with that same faculty that renders us different to other animals.. and as such enjoy those very freedoms democracy affords us all.

Never mind Fis Nua, I reckon The Monster Raving Looney Party would want you on board.

Marcus de Brun

In keeping with sensible Ken's definition of intelligence .. the Raving Looney Party is clearly the way to go.

Could you send me on a membership form... or will I just write my name and address on the back of a fiver and send that on?

Marcus de Brun

"Marcus is looking for some form of intelligentsia rule. Communists and intelligentsia don't have a great history, but hey, as I say, lots of crazies ...."

let me paraphrase.

"Marcus thinks that intelligent people should be in government. We know from history that intelligent people and Communists are a bad idea because like Communists intelligent people are crazy.. "


I blame the education system.

Killer Pigeon

Why doesn't anyone just go and found an Irish Lib. Dem. Party?

sensibleken

Marcus de Brun wrote: »

In keeping with sensible Ken's definition of intelligence .. the Raving Looney Party is clearly the way to go.

Could you send me on a membership form... or will I just write my name and address on the back of a fiver and send that on?

what was my definition of intelligent?

Marcus de Brun

Apologies Semsible Ken.. so much muck being flung in my direction hard to see at times..

That definition was by jcollery.. not yourself.

"There's going to be a LOT of crazies running for election next time out. In case there is any confusion these Fis Nua people pro port to be greens but their economics is straight from the communist manifesto. That makes them communist in my book. Marcus is looking for some form of intelligentsia rule. Communists and intelligentsia don't have a great history, but hey, as I say, lots of crazies out there next time out."

Liam Byrne

If it's being founded by a Green who supported NAMA & the Anglo bailout, or one of the many who have abandoned the "polluter pays" principle, then forget it.

sceptre

I'm locking this as the "registering in a few weeks" statement was, well, let's just say overly optimistic and we now have a designated stickied thread for such announcements (yes, even including the groupings that actually register when they say they will).