White Irish leave, Black Irish stay....may be trouble ahead?

christina_x

topper75 wrote: »

... so there is a wave of Scandinavian immigrants headed our way?



Who jou talkin' bout Willis?

Inbreeding might happen in Iceland (fine lookin' folk funnily enough!) but not in a place washed over by Fir bolg, Celt, Norse, Saxon, Norman, Flemish, German, Dane, Lowland Scot, Palatine, Huguenot... you get my drift.

America has produced some stunners thanks to people from all over the world reproducing, so you never know what we could ahve in 50 years time!!

Foxhound38

topper75 wrote: »

... so there is a wave of Scandinavian immigrants headed our way?



Who jou talkin' bout Willis?

Inbreeding might happen in Iceland (fine lookin' folk funnily enough!) but not in a place washed over by Fir bolg, Celt, Norse, Saxon, Norman, Flemish, German, Dane, Lowland Scot, Palatine, Huguenot... you get my drift.

Have you never seen The Playboy of the Western World or visited Tipperary then? It happened plenty back in the day!

mike65

darkman2 will start his race war yet!

Kasabian

Personally I couldn't care less what the colour of a person's skin is unless it is purple . Purple people freak me out. :rolleyes:

Right wing crap thread as usual.

topper75

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Have you never seen The Playboy of the Western World or visited Tipperary then? It happened plenty back in the day!

I would have taken that play more seriously if I had known it was real.

Point taken on Tipperary though.

up for anything

darkman2 wrote: »

It is logical that if so many white Irish are leaving and not so many black Irish then the racial divide increases - no?

If we are all Irish what is the problem?

What will the racially mixed Irish do about staying versus emmigration? Go backwards and forwards on the Rosslare-Fishguard ferry without ever getting off?

If there are more 'black Irish' in the country than 'white Irish' will Guinness then have to come up with a radical marketing ploy to appeal to the new demographic and sell pints of white with black heads?

Am I allowed to call you a tosser without getting an infraction?

Kiwi_knock

Terry wrote: »

Where are the huge numbers of Black people that everyone is talking about?

They are hiding in the Dublin mountains ready to sweep down and conquer the city when enough White people have left.

Seriously the only racial divide is created in the minds of people who believe there is a divide.

boc123

Grimes wrote: »

There is an issue with changing ethnicities and national identities that should be discussed without calling racism on the OP.

I think we are where Britain was after the war and in 20 - 30 years will have a simular ethnic diversification. There are obviously positive and negative aspects to this, depending on your point of view.

IMHO people are as entitiled to fear a change in national identity as are those who welcome it.

Im unaware of the OP's previous posting past.

Ireland will evolve the same as Britain. Communities living in isolation. Look at Bradford and Blackburn. The offical British government term is "parrallel communities". This means they are in the same town but do not interact together. The Birmingham city council tried a few years ago to build mixed housing estates, it was a massive failure.

Ireland's ethnic population will continue to increase, due to a.) more immigration and b.) higher birthrate of immigrant communities.

Eventually a party who opposes mass immigration will be formed as is the case in all other European countries. What the outcome of this is will be hard to guess, it will not however lead to a more harmonious society.Ireland will have race riots at some stage, there isn't a country in Europe where this hasn't happened.

The representation on boards always seems to say everything is fine. The feelings I get from people on the street/pub is one of increasing hatred.

Banned Account

boc123 wrote: »

Ireland will evolve the same as Britain. Communities living in isolation. Look at Bradford and Blackburn. The offical British government term is "parrallel communities". This means they are in the same town but do not interact together. The Birmingham city council tried a few years ago to build mixed housing estates, it was a massive failure.

Ireland's ethnic population will continue to increase, due to a.) more immigration and b.) higher birthrate of immigrant communities.

Eventually a party who opposes mass immigration will be formed as is the case in all other European countries. What the outcome of this is will be hard to guess, it will not however lead to a more harmonious society.Ireland will have race riots at some stage, there isn't a country in Europe where this hasn't happened.

The representation on boards always seems to say everything is fine. The feelings I get from people on the street/pub is one of increasing hatred.

So, depsite the fact that we have the opportunity to see at first hand the futility of going down this route, you're saying that there are still people who will do this?

The increasing hatred in the pub - why? Why the need for hatred - why is it that a narrow minded bunch of neandethals feel that all their woes are down to people who have a different pigmentation or spaek a different language? Perhaps the truth is that their herd mentalities make them incapable of stringing together a logical thought process so it just becomes easier to punch people in the face.

orourkeda

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

So, depsite the fact that we have the opportunity to see at first hand the futility of going down this route, you're saying that there are still people who will do this?

The increasing hatred in the pub - why? Why the need for hatred - why is it that a narrow minded bunch of neandethals feel that all their woes are down to people who have a different pigmentation or spaek a different language? Perhaps the truth is that their herd mentalities make them incapable of stringing together a logical thought process so it just becomes easier to punch people in the face.

Ever heard of racism?

It does exist you know. Always has and always will.

He's probably right about the race riots. It would seem that it's only a matter of time.

Tordelback

topper75 wrote: »

There is an annoying PC attitude on boards generally though that views all multiculturalism as cool and welcome, but at the same time despises that which is native to Ireland.

My point was not 'hate the Irish', my point was that the country's present and future problems were created by the those who are Irish by birth, culture and pasty skin tones, not by the imaginary waves of Africans that the OP fears. Fear the greedy morons that shovel uncounted billions into a financial black hole, not my hard-working mannerly neighbours.

boc123

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

So, depsite the fact that we have the opportunity to see at first hand the futility of going down this route, you're saying that there are still people who will do this?

I'm just pointing out how I believe it will evolve. There isn't a country in the world where it hasn't panned out like this. Ireland will be no different. People like to live amongst their own, all people, not just the host community. Ireland will gradually divide into certain areas, there will of course be slight overlap.

boc123

orourkeda wrote: »

Ever heard of racism?

It does exist you know. Always has and always will.

He's probably right about the race riots. It would seem that it's only a matter of time.

I hope you're not pointing the racism finger at me?

Banned Account

boc123 wrote: »

I'm just pointing out how I believe it will evolve. There isn't a country in the world where it hasn't panned out like this. Ireland will be no different. People like to live amongst their own, all people, not just the host community. Ireland will gradually divide into certain areas, there will of course be slight overlap.

If what you're saying is true, I do not want to live amongst my own.

boc123

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

If what you're saying is true, I do not want to live amongst my own.

All humans do it. It's a tribal thing.

biko

I don't see an issue as long as newcomers are integrated and adapt to Irish society.
For instance Nigerians already love Guinness (second largest market) but we need to make sure ghettoisation (Nigerian/whatnot only estates) are avoided. I see it in Scandinavia and Britain and nothing good will come from that.
A controlled pace of intake is also needed to make sure the newcomers are housed and given something to do and don't just show up and start living on benefits.

orourkeda

boc123 wrote: »

I hope you're not pointing the racism finger at me?

No. I'm just saying that it exists. Irish people are no different to anyone else in this respect

orourkeda

biko wrote: »

I don't see an issue as long as newcomers are integrated and adapt to Irish society.
For instance Nigerians already love Guinness (second largest market) but we need to make sure ghettoisation (Nigerian/whatnot only estates) are avoided. I see it in Scandinavia and Britain and nothing good will come from that.

Impossible. Is the state supposed to tell people where to live?

grizzly

Anything the can diversify the Irish gene pool is a good thing. I've seen the big eared boys on farms.

Banned Account

boc123 wrote: »

All humans do it. It's a tribal thing.

Perhaps I'm not human then - after some of the recent threads knocking around, perhaps that's no bad thing either.

FUNKY LOVER

irish person whose house is been reclaimed due to failure of morgage sees foreign person living in house and driving a car and collecting money whilst not working=???

boc123

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Perhaps I'm not human then - after some of the recent threads knocking around, perhaps that's no bad thing either.

The world would probably be better off without humans

Foxhound38

I'm racist against racist people - deport them all I say, so the rest of us can live in peace!

lugha

boc123 wrote: »

Ireland will evolve the same as Britain. Communities living in isolation. Look at Bradford and Blackburn. The offical British government term is "parrallel communities". This means they are in the same town but do not interact together. The Birmingham city council tried a few years ago to build mixed housing estates, it was a massive failure.

Ireland's ethnic population will continue to increase, due to a.) more immigration and b.) higher birthrate of immigrant communities.

Eventually a party who opposes mass immigration will be formed as is the case in all other European countries. What the outcome of this is will be hard to guess, it will not however lead to a more harmonious society.Ireland will have race riots at some stage, there isn't a country in Europe where this hasn't happened.

The representation on boards always seems to say everything is fine. The feelings I get from people on the street/pub is one of increasing hatred.

This is a far more measured way of considering the problem (if there is one), as was the post which this was a reply to, certainly when compared with the OP's opening gambit of (paraphrasing) "isn't there a fierce number of blacks around the place altogether?"

But I don't see any evidence that we are on a path to any appalling vista. After the economic collapse, and with the likely slashing of welfare which will soon come, we are not going to be attracting substantially greater numbers to our shores anymore. And local dark mutterings aside, I don't see much evidence of a rise in xenophobia. When a BNP type party starts to emerge, perhaps we could worry then.

Wibbs

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

So, depsite the fact that we have the opportunity to see at first hand the futility of going down this route, you're saying that there are still people who will do this?

The increasing hatred in the pub - why? Why the need for hatred - why is it that a narrow minded bunch of neandethals feel that all their woes are down to people who have a different pigmentation or spaek a different language? Perhaps the truth is that their herd mentalities make them incapable of stringing together a logical thought process so it just becomes easier to punch people in the face.

If history is anything to go by boc123's take is more likely to be the one that wins out. I hate to break it to you, but humans are social herd/pack animals. That's a given. We may be able to intellectualise it out, but en masse we still have the underlying "them and us" thing going on. It's nothing to do with "race" either. Colour is just an easy way to mark the "other" out.

Look at Ulster. Same race, indeed exact same genetic stock* and look at the tribalism that has marred the place. The wrong surname could get you killed. If say protestants had been black it would just have been easier to point them out. Without black people around we were quite happy to point out Prods/fenians/knackers/west Brits/culchies/etc for many a century. In some eyes even a white Irish person, born and bred right down to his or her DNA isnt a real Irish person unless they follow the GAA, speak Irish, hate da britz, while sticking a finger in their ear and singing about dead Irish martyrs.

Going on past history in other nations where large populations have moved in there is damn near always strife. The populations don't have to be particularly large either, just obvious and vocal. You hear little about Chinese/Asian people in these debates, yet they have a big enough population here.

There is an opportunity to change the record, but we have to do it soon. We have to avoid ghettoisation like the very plague. A hard one as similar people from similar cultures will naturally band together. The oul herd instinct again. I'd say it should start with education and mixing of kids at an early age. We have to integrate there. Personally I would ban all culturally driven type schools, or make it a requirement that such schools have(and I hate the word) quotas of difference.


* The people of these two islands are very closely related(and humans worldwide are among the most genetically "inbred" of animals). Including the English BTW. For all the Saxon invasion of England talk, they left suprisingly little enough DNA behind. Same with the "Celtic" Irish. We're not Celts. In both cases it was as much if not more a cultural interchange as a genetic one.

Dravokivich

"White Irish leave, Black Irish stay....may be trouble ahead?"

and moonlight and love and romance... lets face the music and dance!

El Weirdo

grizzly wrote: »

Anything the can diversify the Irish gene pool is a good thing. I've seen the big eared boys on farms.

If you see a lovely field with a family having a picnic, and there’s a nice pond in it, you fill in the pond with concrete, you plough the family into the field, you blow up the tree, and use the leaves to make a dress for your wife who’s also your brother.

boc123

lugha wrote: »

This is a far more measured way of considering the problem (if there is one), as was the post which this was a reply to, certainly when compared with the OP's opening gambit of (paraphrasing) "isn't there a fierce number of blacks around the place altogether?"

But I don't see any evidence that we are on a path to any appalling vista. After the economic collapse, and with the likely slashing of welfare which will soon come, we are not going to be attracting substantially greater numbers to our shores anymore. And local dark mutterings aside, I don't see much evidence of a rise in xenophobia. When a BNP type party starts to emerge, perhaps we could worry then.

Hopefully your right, I work with people from all over the world, it's brilliant. It's just in private I see a lot of anger that would never be expressed in public situations.

Anyway, I think we have bigger things to be worrying about, mainly Peak Oil.
For anyone who hasn't heard of it, google it and that will really put the frighteners of you

Banned Account

Wibbs wrote: »

If history is anything to go by boc123's take is more likely to be the one that wins out. I hate to break it to you, but humans are social herd/pack animals. That's a given. We may be able to intellectualise it out, but en masse we still have the underlying "them and us" thing going on. It's nothing to do with "race" either. Colour is just an easy way to mark the "other" out.

Look at Ulster. Same race, indeed exact same genetic stock* and look at the tribalism that has marred the place. The wrong surname could get you killed. If say protestants had been black it would just have been easier to point them out. Without black people around we were quite happy to point out Prods/fenians/knackers/west Brits/culchies/etc for many a century. In some eyes even a white Irish person, born and bred right down to his or her DNA isnt a real Irish person unless they follow the GAA, speak Irish, hate da britz, while sticking a finger in their ear and singing about dead Irish martyrs.

Going on past history in other nations where large populations have moved in there is damn near always strife. The populations don't have to be particularly large either, just obvious and vocal. You hear little about Chinese/Asian people in these debates, yet they have a big enough population here.

There is an opportunity to change the record, but we have to do it soon. We have to avoid ghettoisation like the very plague. A hard one as similar people from similar cultures will naturally band together. The oul herd instinct again. I'd say it should start with education and mixing of kids at an early age. We have to integrate there. Personally I would ban all culturally driven type schools, or make it a requirement that such schools have(and I hate the word) quotas of difference.


* The people of these two islands are very closely related(and humans worldwide are among the most genetically "inbred" of animals). Including the English BTW. For all the Saxon invasion of England talk, they left suprisingly little enough DNA behind. Same with the "Celtic" Irish. We're not Celts. In both cases it was as much if not more a cultural interchange as a genetic one.

But here's the cut as I see it. If, indeed you are right about the herd instinct, then we will never be able to sort this out - that's a point that I can't accept. As long as there are some individuals who do not draw divides along these lines, then it remains the case that the "them and us" mindset is not nature but nurture.

People are conditioned to think they way they do - saying that it's a natural urge is a cop out used by biggots and those to lazy or stupid to want to put in the effort to embrace humanity and it's many strands of diversity.

For this reason, I am and always will be, unwilling to accept this stance from any of my fellow human beings after all, all that is needed for evil to prosper is that good men do nothing.

billy the squid

paky wrote: »

op i agree with you.

so many people on this site find it hard to discuss this issue with any sense of maturity.

personally i feel the current ethnic state of ireland is in complete dissarray.

ireland has completely lost its identity and has become europes prostitute.

state of the place

What is the Irish identity?

KeithAFC

What is wrong with people who have different skin colour? This thread is pathetic.

mike65

Short, freckled, drunk, bad clothes. Oh sorry I meant noble, literate, progressive, quite swish.

Nodin

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh it's in the back of your mind and everyones. Be politically correct and devoid of reality if you wish....

Projecting. Try not to.

darkman2 wrote: »

It is logical that if so many white Irish are leaving and not so many black Irish then the racial divide increases - no?

The only thing increasing and causing a "racial divide" as far as I can tell is people such as yourself.

Amhran Nua

boc123 wrote: »

Ireland will evolve the same as Britain.

Sorry, but Ireland has already demonstrated it won't evolve in the same way as Britain. If 6 million migrants had landed in Britain over the course of a couple of years, there would be race riots in the streets. They already had bloody race riots over much less. And this is the equivalent economic migration into Ireland from 2004 to 2006.

Wibbs wrote: »

If history is anything to go by boc123's take is more likely to be the one that wins out. I hate to break it to you, but humans are social herd/pack animals. That's a given.

People aren't meat robots running around on automatic, and this is particularly true of people in Ireland I find. Most are willing to take new people on a case by case basis. Just because the rest of Europe and the USA are unable to break the knuckle dragging tribal mold doesn't mean the Irish are as badly off.

Craebear

@ OP

Stormfront.org

orourkeda

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I'm racist against racist people - deport them all I say, so the rest of us can live in peace!

If I'm not mistaken that makes you a racist.

Foxhound38

orourkeda wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken that makes you a racist.

But only against racist people - the last people that it's alright to discriminate against

Nodin

orourkeda wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken that makes you a racist.

But you are mistaken - unless you can point out a seperate race of racists existing amongst us.

py2006

KeithAFC wrote: »

What is wrong with people who have different skin colour? This thread is pathetic.

You really need to read the thread before posting! I don't think anybody suggesting there was!

Nodin

Foxhound38 wrote: »

But only against racist people - the last people that it's alright to discriminate against

In fairness, deporting the sad sacks would be far too harsh, and give them a sense of importance they really don't deserve. Better to keep them and watch their rage and frustration as the world rumbles over and past them.

gbee

paky wrote: »

personally i feel the current ethnic state of ireland is in complete dissarray. ireland has completely lost its identity and has become europes prostitute.

Apart from the paid ads in 'Lonely Planet' the US are advising tourist to go to Latvia or Lithuania as there is more native culture there, without the high prices.

Native Irish workers are still being shunned at the dole queues and denied benefits.

Another thread has over 80,000 foreign nats claiming here ~ we need a better breakdown as we do have a term for EU citizens and that was not used.

KeithAFC

py2006 wrote: »

You really need to read the thread before posting! I don't think anybody suggesting there was!

Not from some of the posts iv seen.

Kiwi_knock

Just on the topic of Ghettoes, is there any part of any Irish city or town which you would class an immigrant ghetto or on the way to being an immigrant ghetto? I honestly do not think there is. Is there any area you feel wary walking through because of the immigrant population? I think the answer to that is no again. I am not saying that Ghettoes will never spring up in Ireland but that Ghettoisation is a good bit in the future not here in the now. We have a chance to spread an understanding of multiculturalism.

More efforts should be made in school to spread multiculturalism. In most classes there will be one child of a different ethnic background but rarely is much explored about the child's backgorund beyond is country of birth or heritage. I think especially in Primary schools more should be done to acknowledge and celebrate the ethnic background of students. I do not think it would be much trouble for a teacher to devote a week to teaching about a child's background. Such a learning a few facts about that country and learning a bit of the language. It would be a welcome break for the kids and also spread multiculturalism.

We have a good chance of avoiding the ghettoisation of our country is we promote multiculturalism at a young age.

boc123

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Sorry, but Ireland has already demonstrated it won't evolve in the same way as Britain. If 6 million migrants had landed in Britain over the course of a couple of years, there would be race riots in the streets. They already had bloody race riots over much less. And this is the equivalent economic migration into Ireland from 2004 to 2006.

I believe your wrong. Evolving does not mean the 2 year period you refer to, it is over the long term. I believe we will develop more or less the same as all other countries on earth.

Ireland already is developing the way Britain has, just to a lesser extent due to the time frame. Immigration into Britain in the modern era started after world war 2, In Ireland it was in the mid 1990's.

Foxhound38

Nodin wrote: »

But you are mistaken - unless you can point out a seperate race of racists existing amongst us.

My theory is that racist people share more DNA with crabs than humans, they just look like us... I guess that makes me racist towards crabs then too...

In seriousness though, I never understood the whole desire to keep the nation ethnically pure - it's just some arbitrary set of norms that people identify with. Would those same people also insist that people should only mix with those born in the same hospital as them, because that is essentially the argument many of them make...

Kasabian

Darkman2

When you decide to comebak to the crap stirring thread you have begun can you let me know how many people of other ethnics you know personally and how many if any you refer to as friends.

Just curious

bizzo

I have Zero problem with being driven in a taxi by a foreigner, being treated by a doctor who doesnt have the same surname as me or serving a pint to a guy who cant pronounce the name of the drink. Point im making is that those who come over to work here legitimately shouldnt be painted with the same brush as those who get off the plane and head straight to the social welfare office. Thats where the system is funked.
Sure wouldnt you ring all your buddies back home if you went to a country where they hand out free dosh every week without having to lift a finger.

The mind boggles!!

Nodin

Foxhound38 wrote: »

My theory is that racist people share more DNA with crabs than humans, they just look like us... I guess that makes me racist towards crabs then too...

In seriousness though, I never understood the whole desire to keep the nation ethnically pure - it's just some arbitrary set of norms that people identify with. Would those same people also insist that people should only mix with those born in the same hospital as them, because that is essentially the argument many of them make...

Hmmmm. We must see if theres a species of crab that drag their claws across the ground as they walk before jumping to conclusions.

southsiderosie

I think people are being far too pessimistic about immigration in the long term.

First, as another poster mentioned, black migrants are a small percentage of the population.

Second, unlike places like France, they aren't all shoved into horrible housing estates outside of town.

Third, the black immigrant community in particular has shown great interest in integration. African immigrants are very interested in politics, and stand for office/vote in rates that are far higher than what one would expect given their population. And the native Irish population has shown that they are willing to vote for immigrant candidates (regardless of their race) at a local level if they feel that those candidates are involved enough in their communities.

Finally, despite the muttering and nasty comments from taxi drivers, I'm not really worried about mass mobilization in the streets against immigrants given that the Irish show little inclination to engage in protest politics (unless it involves French footballers).

Kasabian

"Southern Man"

Southern man
better keep your head
Don't forget
what your good book said
Southern change
gonna come at last
Now your crosses
are burning fast
Southern man

I saw cotton
and I saw black
Tall white mansions
and little shacks.
Southern man
when will you
pay them back?
I heard screamin'
and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long?

Southern man
better keep your head
Don't forget
what your good book said
Southern change
gonna come at last
Now your crosses
are burning fast
Southern man

Lily Belle,
your hair is golden brown
I've seen your black man
comin' round
Swear by God
I'm gonna cut him down!
I heard screamin'
and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long?

The new republic

:rolleyes: