Northern Irish at the Irish Embassy in London?

changes

The unionists could be there as subjects of the crown who share an island with the irish. They were there in support of prince charles and not to be visited by prince charles (as any irish person there was).

Iwasfrozen

gurramok wrote: »

Perhaps you should read Junders post 2 posts above yours. Why label the Unionists Irish when they don't want to?

And it ain't bigotry, if you venture up north you'd know a sizeable chunk of the Unionist community do not identify with being Irish despite them having heritage here!

I'm not trying to label anyone Irish or British. Unlike certain posters here I acknowledge and respect the right of those born in Northern Ireland to both Irish or British citizenship, or both!

And yes, hating British people is bigotry.

sensibleken

does it really matter to your life if someone calls themselves british.

*group hug*

gurramok

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'm not trying to label anyone Irish or British. Unlike certain posters here I acknowledge and respect the right of those born in Northern Ireland to both Irish or British citizenship, or both!

And yes, hating British people is bigotry.

So, you recognise that Mr/Miss O'Brien from Bellaghy, Derry is as Irish as us, yes ?

And yeh, Mr/Miss Trimble can reject Irishness and proclaim Britishness as they see fit?

I don't hate British people, i'm listening to their excellent rock music now

sensibleken wrote: »

does it really matter to your life if someone calls themselves british.

*group hug*

No, it does not. They are decent folk like ours, its their establishment that uses jingoism to further political aims that is the problem.

Rebelheart

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Are you really that stupid or are you just trying to be obtuse? People born in Northern Ireland have a right to be British. I don't know why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder but you'd better get over it fast. No-one likes a bigot.

Tut. Tut. The number of times you've accused various posters of having chips on their shoulders/hating people/being stupid can only lead to one conclusion, and that is that you're projecting your own evidently lower standards and qualities on to others.

Are you still angry about messing up your Leaving Cert last summer because you decided to cop-out and get an OCD about posting on Boards.ie? Sorry, but it's not our fault. Duh. (although you're undoubtedly blaming Irish!)

And anyway, your initial claim was that 'People living in Northern Ireland have the right to call themselves British. Whether or not you like that is inconsequential.' From the above you don't seem to like the fact that people living in the Six Counties also have the right to call themselves Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever else they want to. There's really no sense in losing your temper and calling people "stupid" simply because you failed to articulate your point intelligently in the first place. Duh (again).

blorg

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But to be pedantic, there is no such thing as a British Citizen. There are Subjects of the United Kingdom alright.

That is incorrect. British citizen and British subject are two different things. British citizens are not British subjects.

KeithAFC

charlemont wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tamf5CI1yVY&playnext=1&list=PLFC8C6AA21EFC0F94&index=97



check out David Ervine's take on it...

Just because its David Ervine does not mean he is correct in his general assement. A lot of Unionists aren't Irish. They are more Scottish than Irish.

getz

KeithAFC wrote: »

Just because its David Ervine does not mean he is correct in his general assement. A lot of Unionists aren't Irish. They are more Scottish than Irish.

born in ireland you are irish,you do not have to be a irish citizen to be a irishman,

KeithAFC

getz wrote: »

born in ireland you are irish,you do not have to be a irish citizen to be a irishman,

No your not. People born in Northern Ireland, does not make them Irish.

getz

KeithAFC wrote: »

No your not. People born in Northern Ireland, does not make them Irish.

citizens of the republic have no right to tell other people who are born in ireland that they are not irish,

junder

getz wrote: »

born in ireland you are irish,you do not have to be a irish citizen to be a irishman,

Thats ok then as I was not born in Ireland, I was born in northern ireland

blorg

Someone can be both Irish and British, just as one can be Scottish and British. There is no contradiction here. Ian Paisley was always very clear that he considered himself an "Irishman." This does not mean that he was a citizen of Ireland.

Iwasfrozen

gurramok wrote: »

So, you recognise that Mr/Miss O'Brien from Bellaghy, Derry is as Irish as us, yes ?

Providing Mr/Miss O'Brien from Derry wants to be Irish then yes. Everyone born in Ireland has the right to be irish.

gurramok wrote: »

And yeh, Mr/Miss Trimble can reject Irishness and proclaim Britishness as they see fit?

Yes, everyone in Northern Ireland has the right to call themselves British if they want.

gurramok wrote: »

I don't hate British people, i'm listening to their excellent rock music now

Good to hear it.

Rebelheart wrote:

Tut. Tut. The number of times you've accused various posters of having chips on their shoulders/hating people/being stupid can only lead to one conclusion, and that is that you're projecting your own evidently lower standards and qualities on to others.

Well it's hard to engage in sensible discussion with someone named Rebelheart. Having said that I don't think I've called you stupid.

Rebelheart wrote:

Are you still angry about messing up your Leaving Cert last summer because you decided to cop-out and get an OCD about posting on Boards.ie? Sorry, but it's not our fault. Duh. (although you're undoubtedly blaming Irish!)

I didn't mess up my leaving cert. I needed to pass in Irish to get into UCD and I knew from my pre-results that I needed help. So I got grinds and even though I hated it I worked hard at Irish and got my C1 in ordinary level, which got me into my desired course.

Rebelheart wrote:

And anyway, your initial claim was that 'People living in Northern Ireland have the right to call themselves British. Whether or not you like that is inconsequential.' From the above you don't seem to like the fact that people living in the Six Counties also have the right to call themselves Chinese, Vietnamese or whatever else they want to. There's really no sense in losing your temper and calling people "stupid" simply because you failed to articulate your point intelligently in the first place. Duh (again).

What are you talking about? Of course people have the right to call themselves Chinese in Northern Ireland.

Cú Giobach

KeithAFC wrote: »

Just because its David Ervine does not mean he is correct in his general assement. A lot of Unionists aren't Irish. They are more Scottish than Irish.

When I meet a 3rd or 4th generation Irish/American I often smile to myself when they refer to themselves as Irish.

Quote Junder:
Thats ok then as I was not born in Ireland, I was born in Northern Ireland.

FYP my bold.

And I was born in southern Ireland.
We were both born in different parts of Ireland. Just like someone born in Glasgow was born in Britain.
Ireland is the name of the island you were born on.
You can call yourself anything you like but you can't change this.

junder

Does somebody born in the republic of Ireland have the right to call themselves British?

Cú Giobach

junder wrote: »

Does somebody born in the republic of Ireland have the right to call themselves British?

From the way people use the term "British", apparently you could be born anywhere on (or off) the planet and refer to yourself as British, I would imagine Ireland would be included in this.

Iwasfrozen

Cú Giobach wrote: »

From the way people use the term "British", apparently you could be born anywhere on (or off) the planet and refer to yourself as British, I would imagine Ireland would be included in this.

Not really. Most people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Northern_Ireland

What's more:

Wikipedia wrote:

As part of the United Kingdom, people from Northern Ireland are British citizens. They are also entitled to Irish citizenship by birth which is covered in the 1998 Belfast Agreement between the British and Irish governments, which, provides that: it is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly [the two governments] confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland

So to answer your question Junder. No, people born in the republic are not British citizens.

Cú Giobach

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So to answer your question Junder. No, people born in the republic are not British citizens.

Unless they have one parent born in the UK.

Iwasfrozen

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Unless they have one parent born in the UK.

Yes, unless they have one parent born in the UK.

blorg

junder wrote: »

Does somebody born in the republic of Ireland have the right to call themselves British?

If you move to the UK (including NI) and go through naturalisation there, yes, you could. Otherwise, no.

junder

A person born in northern ireland can claim Irish citizenship, but a person born in the republic of Ireland can't claim british citizenship. Hardly fair

Bottle_of_Smoke

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Says that on your passport, does it?

It does actually say British Citizen on the inside, looked at my flatmate's one before.

Cú Giobach

junder wrote: »

A person born in northern ireland can claim Irish citizenship, but a person born in the republic of Ireland can't claim british citizenship. Hardly fair

Why?
The same goes for people born in France, Germany......(very long list)...etc

junder

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Why?
The same goes for people born in France, Germany......(very long list)...etc

There are those in the republic that feel British, now I know the republic has by and large taught these people to keep thier heads down, but you would think that now in the spirit of peace and reconciliation that these people, often contemptuously referee as west Brits, have the right to claim citizenship of the country they feel most affinty to. Now I do hope that you are not going to say that these people should have to move from were they were born, because that would be wrong now wouldn't it, and might just fall under one if the various ism's, such as sectarianism or even racism.
What anybof this has to do with france or Germany though is beyond me

KeithAFC

junder wrote: »

There are those in the republic that feel British, now I know the republic has by and large taught these people to keep thier heads down, but you would think that now in the spirit of peace and reconciliation that these people, often contemptuously referee as west Brits, have the right to claim citizenship of the country they feel most affinty to. Now I do hope that you are not going to say that these people should have to move from were they were born, because that would be wrong now wouldn't it, and might just fall under one if the various ism's, such as sectarianism or even racism.
What anybof this has to do with france or Germany though is beyond me

They should move to Ulster then, their true home.

Iwasfrozen

junder wrote: »

There are those in the republic that feel British, now I know the republic has by and large taught these people to keep thier heads down, but you would think that now in the spirit of peace and reconciliation that these people, often contemptuously referee as west Brits, have the right to claim citizenship of the country they feel most affinty to. Now I do hope that you are not going to say that these people should have to move from were they were born, because that would be wrong now wouldn't it, and might just fall under one if the various ism's, such as sectarianism or even racism.
What anybof this has to do with france or Germany though is beyond me

If people in Ireland were given the chance to become British citizens then they would also have to be given a vote. Which apart from anything else would be un-democratic because British laws wouldn't affect them.

Cú Giobach

junder wrote: »

There are those in the republic that feel British, now I know the republic has by and large taught these people to keep thier heads down, but you would think that now in the spirit of peace and reconciliation that these people, often contemptuously referee as west Brits, have the right to claim citizenship of the country they feel most affinty to. Now I do hope that you are not going to say that these people should have to move from were they were born, because that would be wrong now wouldn't it, and might just fall under one if the various ism's, such as sectarianism or even racism.
What anybof this has to do with france or Germany though is beyond me

I'm sorry to have to tell you this Junder but here in the real world people can't just pick and choose their desired citizenship based on their love of a country.
The world doesn't work like that, because things would get ever so slightly complicated and unstable, not to mention undemocratic.

Iwasfrozen

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I'm sorry to have to tell you this Junder but here in the real world people can't just pick and choose their desired citizenship based on their love of a country.
The world doesn't work like that, because things would get ever so slightly complicated and unstable, not to mention undemocratic.

Try telling that to Republicans up North.

Cú Giobach

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Try telling that to Republicans up North.

Do you really want to open that particular can of worms.

Iwasfrozen

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Do you really want to open that particular can of worms.

God no, it's the last thing I want to do. But in all seriousness you have to look at things logically. Try telling hard nosed Republicans "in the real world people can't just pick and choose their desired citizenship based on their love of a country" and they'd probably kneecap you.