Social Welfare cut but Public Service Pay not ?

caseyann

the_syco wrote: »

Ah, you mean the bonus for doing nothing. Never quite got that. Esp when I don't get a xmas bonus, and I F**KING WORK :pac:


I do hope, with that sort of line, you cannot afford alcohol, smokes, or any holidays...

I dont understand all these people who arent getting Christmas bonuses I always got one in every job i ever had.

And another thin people who can afford things like that on social welfare shouldnt be on it as they are obviously living beyond their means and skiving or working or criminals.
And they are few and far between.

wonderfulname

Its like AH here with all the b*tching :P

caseyann

ntlbell wrote: »

Again, not sure what that has to do with the question?

people often cite how great things are. when they state the uk for child care it's fine when you explain the SW in the UK is 1/3 it is here they state "ah but its cheaper to live"

The grass is not always so green.

The point is if these were put in place we would have alot more single parents out working and not feeling trapped and backed into a corner.

ntlbell

caseyann wrote: »

I dont understand all these people who arent getting Christmas bonuses I always got one in every job i ever had.

And another thin people who can afford things like that on social welfare shouldnt be on it as they are obviously living beyond their means and skiving or working or criminals.

you seem to think what happens in your world happens everywhere else.

I've never had a bonus many private sector companies don't have bonuses unless you're in something like a comission based job.

Jobs with xmas bonuses not sales/commision based, tend to be lower paid non profesional jobs.

ntlbell

caseyann wrote: »

The point is if these were put in place we would have alot more single parents out working and not feeling trapped and backed into a corner.

How?

we're not hiring mothers anymore?

Godge

ntlbell wrote: »

If you need child care during the summer months in primary that would be two months. you could get a live in au pair relativley cheap compared to a creche and you have reduced the child care from 12 months to 2.

.

Wow, you really have no idea.

Do you realise there are Christmas and Easter breaks, mid-terms etc. Primary schools are supposed to open for 183 days. In reality it is around 170. Given that there are approximately 220 working days in the year for an ordinary worker after public holidays and annual leave, that still leaves 50 days for childcare on top of the 170 for after-school care.

A live-in au pair as a solution. What are you suggesting? A Filipino or Latvian girl hired illegally? Because that is the only way to do it relatively cheaply. If you do it properly and legally, pay an agent, employers PRSI etc, it costs a minimum of €300 per week for an au pair. You would need to earn a lot to justify that!

caseyann

ntlbell wrote: »

you seem to think what happens in your world happens everywhere else.

I've never had a bonus many private sector companies don't have bonuses unless you're in something like a comission based job.

Jobs with xmas bonuses not sales/commision based, tend to be lower paid non profesional jobs.

But they can pay their own bonuses
Well you are obviously on one of those fixed contract high wages?

ntlbell

Godge wrote: »

Wow, you really have no idea.

Do you realise there are Christmas and Easter breaks, mid-terms etc. Primary schools are supposed to open for 183 days. In reality it is around 170. Given that there are approximately 220 working days in the year for an ordinary worker after public holidays and annual leave, that still leaves 50 days for childcare on top of the 170 for after-school care.

Generally people get paid leave, this could be used for breaks. if you don't have enough built up, you're paying half day crech for those days.

not a big issue, but if you want to find a way not to be able to do it, you will.

Godge wrote: »

A live-in au pair as a solution. What are you suggesting? A Filipino or Latvian girl hired illegally? Because that is the only way to do it relatively cheaply. If you do it properly and legally, pay an agent, employers PRSI etc, it costs a minimum of €300 per week for an au pair. You would need to earn a lot to justify that!

I'm suggesting a live au-pair I'm not sure why fillipino and lativian people have been thrown in this wow. I'm not suggesting anyone break the law.

Mcwood

Funny as it gets we are deviating our precious times, to those who in the first place create all this mess. gritty and corrupt bankers and bureaucrats that for the next 4 years... Ohh!! I mean, 5 years are going to make a profit out of our pockets for something that these cunning people created in the first place.

No one wants to be unemployed or to be cut, all what I have to say is that in these times we all need to keep together as a unit in order for us as people to move and function, people need to be more in solidarity with each other and stand up and make your voice hear to those that think we don't have a choice and are running this mad circus.

Solidarity and fairness with the poorest of our society.

WHU

Max Power1 wrote: »

IMO the dole wasnt cut enough.

€188 per week is still WAY too high for social welfare payments.

Really, try living on it.

ntlbell

WHU wrote: »

Really, try living on it.

Since people are all too quick to point out how great other countries are.

Try living in poland on 50e a week which gets cut if you don't find a job after 6 months.

Try living in the uk on almost 1/3 of the irish payment.

It is more than enough to do what it is designed to do, a stop gap from one job to the next. it's not a career choice.

WHU

ntlbell wrote: »

Since people are all too quick to point out how great other countries are.

Try living in poland on 50e a week which gets cut if you don't find a job after 6 months.

Try living in the uk on almost 1/3 of the irish payment.

It is more than enough to do what it is designed to do, a stop gap from one job to the next. it's not a career choice.

I never wrote about other countries, the UK or it being a career choice.

ntlbell

WHU wrote: »

I never wrote about other countries, the UK or it being a career choice.

You didn't but it has been mentioned on the thread, i'm pointing out how generous our SW system is compared to other countries.

"try living on it" is not much of an argument.

0O7

bla bla bla..... give us more money for doing nothing

Duiske

0O7 wrote: »

bla bla bla..... give us more money for doing nothing

Who is asking for more money ?

galway2007

mixednuts wrote: »

I really do not want to start off the Private 'v' Public employee argument again , but this to me is one of the most unfair aspects of the 2011 Budget .

The Croke Park agreement done great to protect existing jobs in the Public Service (fair play) but it should not stop the tide going out for public service employee's when everyone else is going down .

If Wages/Welfare are been lowered it should be across the Public service aswell.

The Croke Park agreement is just another failed contract by the same people that have been agreeing contracts for the future of our country for decades to come ...This does not inspire confidence .:(

What sort of idiot are you????????????
14 % pay cut already the PS
15000 jobs gone another 13000 to go
10 cut to all new workers
Massive pension reform to all new workers in ps and I am sure it will be rolled out to all in the PS
We have taken the same hit again yesterday as all other tax payers

So please tell me what planet are you on??????????
To me it sound like you sit on you ass allay and just complain
I am quite happy with the budget as at long last the private sector worker got a taste of the pain the public sector worker got last year

galway2007

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished :rolleyes:?? Thats not a cut, because as far as I'm concerned & anyone else who every got it, it was a substancial cut!

They should have never got a xmas bonus just like there freinds in the private sector should not have got a bonus for screwing people
Ie The bankers

WHU

ntlbell wrote: »

You didn't but it has been mentioned on the thread, i'm pointing out how generous our SW system is compared to other countries.

"try living on it" is not much of an argument.

Either is someone saying cut it more just because they are secure in employment.
While I do see the fraustration of those woking and having their money cut while those on the dole are getting money, I am shocked at the attitude of some here.

ntlbell

WHU wrote: »

Either is someone saying cut it more just because they are secure in employment.
While I do see the fraustration of those woking and having their money cut while those on the dole are getting money, I am shocked at the attitude of some here.

It's nothing to do with frustration it's to do with affordability and the SW being used for what it's designed for.

We can't afford the levels of SW, we need to bring it down to a level where it gives a very basic standard of living during a stop gap in employment.

Leiva

galway2007 wrote: »

What sort of idiot are you????????????
14 % pay cut already the PS
15000 jobs gone another 13000 to go
10 cut to all new workers
Massive pension reform to all new workers in ps and I am sure it will be rolled out to all in the PS
We have taken the same hit again yesterday as all other tax payers

So please tell me what planet are you on??????????
To me it sound like you sit on you ass allay and just complain
I am quite happy with the budget as at long last the private sector worker got a taste of the pain the public sector worker got last year

First things first ..

I am no idiot

What sort of idiot are you????????????

and I work extremely hard excuse you

To me it sound like you sit on you ass allay and just complain

My original post was to make the point that the Croke Park Agreement done its part to protect the existing Public service workers ,and well done. But didnt i somewhere read that wages wont be reviewed unless the country faces extreme financial pressures ...well if getting a IMF €85billion bail out aint been under financial pressure then I dont know what is .
For that the Croke Park Agreement should now be null and void .

The FF speel is that we are now going back to 2006 levels in most sections of the Budget (taxation , Social ) why aint the Public Service Pay ?
Simple question not trying to provoke .

Whats also lacking from similar Threads to this is the incremental increases (graphed) that the Public service got since the early 2000's

ntlbell

galway2007 wrote: »

What sort of idiot are you????????????
14 % pay cut already the PS

how was it a 14% cut? if your talking about pension levy, this is not a pay cut, people in the private sector have to provide their own pensions and it will be money you get back.

galway2007 wrote: »

15000 jobs gone another 13000 to go

15,000 are gone? source? were these part-time/contracters or permanent staff? redudency's?

galway2007 wrote: »

10 cut to all new workers

This doesn't affect anyone in the PS currently.

galway2007 wrote: »

Massive pension reform to all new workers in ps and I am sure it will be rolled out to all in the PS

You mean the pensions are now going to be brought into a state they should have been previously?

galway2007 wrote: »

So please tell me what planet are you on??????????
To me it sound like you sit on you ass allay and just complain
I am quite happy with the budget as at long last the private sector worker got a taste of the pain the public sector worker got last year

what has the private sector pain got to do with your employer not being able to afford your wages?

WHU

ntlbell wrote: »

We can't afford the levels of SW, we need to bring it down to a level where it gives a very basic standard of living during a stop gap in employment.

I agree with you on this, it is designed as a short measure and I truly belive those on it longer should recieve less than say those that have just lost jobs. But, the cost of living needs to decline too, electric, gas, coal and food have all risen, although food has declined slightly, recently it is on the increase again.
So yes I do agree it is being used for what it was not designed for, and it is not sustainable, but I don't agree with is the attitude of some saying, I'm working they're getting money for nothing, take it from them etc etc..
I really hope those with this type of attitude do not find themselves out of work on the dole and trying to make ends meet, temporary or not.

ntlbell

WHU wrote: »

I agree with you on this, it is designed as a short measure and I truly belive those on it longer should recieve less than say those that have just lost jobs. But, the cost of living needs to decline too, electric, gas, coal and food have all risen, although food has declined slightly, recently it is on the increase again.

The cost of living and income go hand in hand, if landlords are getting handouts in rent allowance it will put a floor on rent and keep it high.

My electricity and gas have came down a lot compition there with the likes of bord gais and air tricity in the market. not sure where your shopping but tesco and lidl seem to be in a race to the bottom, food hasn't been this cheap for a long time. the cost of living is reducing.

WHU wrote: »

So yes I do agree it is being used for what it was not designed for, and it is not sustainable, but I don't agree with is the attitude of some saying, I'm working they're getting money for nothing, take it from them etc etc..
I really hope those with this type of attitude do not find themselves out of work on the dole and trying to make ends meet, temporary or not.

all public spending needs to be cut, this happens to include SW it's not their just targeting SW

Stark

caseyann wrote: »

I dont understand all these people who arent getting Christmas bonuses I always got one in every job i ever had.

And another thin people who can afford things like that on social welfare shouldnt be on it as they are obviously living beyond their means and skiving or working or criminals.
And they are few and far between.

Never had a christmas bonus myself. The only people I know who were under the impression that companies regularly gave out christmas bonuses were those who were told so by their union reps.

_michelle_ wrote: »

Really what about the christmas bonus that was abolished ??

It got linked to performance.

kermitpwee

whatawaster wrote: »

I sympathise with everyone who's suffered a fall in income.

But 2 points:

1) The cost of living is falling, and will probably fall back further, so in real terms any drop in income is not as severe as it is in nominal terms.

This is where the government is fooling people., The price of essentials is not falling. Esb, oil, petrol these are increasing and there are many more. Sure the price of services like restraunts is falling but sure who is going there now anyway? The price of a 52 inch tv has fallen dramatically and so has a house but sure who is buying these anyway. The people are been fooled. on the average Consumer price index things maybe cheaper but in a recession people dont buy luxuries they buy essentials and these essentials have not fallen.

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=CPM01C1.asp&TableName=January+to+2010&StatisticalProduct=DB_CP

As you can see there are a lot of things on the rise since Jan2010.

galway2007

mixednuts wrote: »

First things first ..

I am no idiot and I work extremely hard excuse you

My original post was to make the point that the Croke Park Agreement done its part to protect the existing Public service workers ,and well done. But didnt i somewhere read that wages wont be reviewed unless the country faces extreme financial pressures ...well if getting a IMF €85billion bail out aint been under financial pressure then I dont know what is .
For that the Croke Park Agreement should now be null and void .

The FF speel is that we are now going back to 2006 levels in most sections of the Budget (taxation , Social ) why aint the Public Service Pay ?
Simple question not trying to provoke .

Whats also lacking from similar Threads to this is the incremental increases (graphed) that the Public service got since the early 2000's

well go to this link and you might understand that once again public sector workers are paying more than any other worker
http://budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Part%20C%20-%20Annexes%20to%20SBM%20FINAL.pdf
Then come back and finish your rant
draw you a picture???

ntlbell

kermitpwee wrote: »

This is where the government is fooling people., The price of essentials is not falling. Esb, oil, petrol these are increasing and there are many more. Sure the price of services like restraunts is falling but sure who is going there now anyway? The price of a 52 inch tv has fallen dramatically and so has a house but sure who is buying these anyway. The people are been fooled. on the average Consumer price index things maybe cheaper but in a recession people dont buy luxuries they buy essentials and these essentials have not fallen.

board gais and air tricty are offering significant discounts, how it not falling?

people on SW shouldn't need to use much petrol/diesel for the majority of cases.

I don't need the goverment to tell me the cost of living is going down I can see it for myself anyone who can't is doing something wrong.

fliball123

_michelle_ wrote: »

Well I wasnt looking for a slagging match but if your going to start go right ahead........ I can ram my christmas bonus where exactly?? Would you like me to have told my children that when Santa couldnt get a few essential for Christmas? Sorry for your wages being cut but nobody can say that it wasnt a cut as it was, simple as!

The head on you Paccington...sure the p.s come out with the pension levy as a cut...so if thats a pay cut so is the xmas bonus for unemployed

tails_naf

cson wrote: »

I'm a big proponent for Social Welfare reform but I must say your post is highly disingenuous.

It is not a choice for some people whether to work or claim JSA - some simply can't obtain employment at the present time.

I tend to agree, it is hard but not impossible.

I have a carpenter doing a few jobs for me (just finished building a new house, which I can afford as I saved and only built and borrowed very modestly).

This guy is flat out - working 7 days a week and 12 hours + a day, and not doing the jobs for cash. He's doing honest, good hard work.

Why is he so busy? because he has a reputation for doing work at a good price. He's not looking for boom prices. Quite a few people who are out of work don't want to go back to 2005 levels, so won't work.

Over the course of the build I encountered many trades who flat out refused to work for prices per hour/job that someone would have jumped at in 2005

fliball123

Blondini wrote: »

This is exactly what you are doing. Let me tell you a story.

After I graduated I was a private sector worker up until 2002.

I then voluntarily left the private sector and took a public sector job for much much much less money because I wanted a change in direction. My choice - no regrets.

I earn less now in 2010 in the public sector than I did in 2002 in the private sector.

When I made this decision every single person that I knew thought I was mad because I was basically "demoting myself" , "throwing my career away" ,"heading for financial ruin" and I actually had people laugh at me.

Now fast forward to 2010 and guess what .. From these same people I now hear "You're a cute hoor" , "Sure you're paid too much" , "Why don't you take a pay cut" etc etc et-f*ckin-cetera

I am sick of the hypocrisy and short-term memory of the f*ckin Joe Duffy and Indo masses. Jumping on any bandwagon regardless of the facts.

Sick of it.

Facts are P.S is overpaid end of story