Cronin to Leinster,Keatley and Carr in talks with clubs

colster

There's another issue that hasn't been considered is that there are lot of foreign clubs looking at players in the Leinster and their Academy. I think if a young lad had a choice between going to Connacht or say Leceister/Wasps where they could tie in a rugby playing career with education as Ian Humphreys did I think they'd choose the latter.

Diom

Lads I think that there is too much being read into the "facilitation" thing. The only change is that there will be an active policy of looking at Connacht as an option for over-staffed areas of other provinces.

porterbelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you give me 2 reasons why "Leinster Ltd" would prefer their "second string" players to play for Connacht instead, and have to rely on the 19/21 year olds anytime we are short?

What benefits do Leinster get? Thats what I've found it hard to see.

Surely what would be more beneficial for both, would be for players who aren't getting gametime, aren't being exposed, and are surplus to requirements at Leinster, but would certainly strengthen and develop both themselves and the team at Connacht, to make that move?

This is what happened with Keatley, with Carr too. They weren't getting the opportunities, and headed west to show what they could do.

Its a similar thing to when we discussed SOB not playing in the AIs, or Ross. And most posters said "fair enough, just gonna have to show Kidney that they can do it week in, week out at top level Leinster games".

Sometimes you don't fit in a team, or you're a member of a crazily overpowered back row squad, and you just need a bit of breathing space to kick into the next gear. I don't think players like Conway, or Ruddock need that space. They're progressing fantastically within the Leinster setup.

Players who haven't gotten enough out of the setup, players like Morris and D.Kearney to some extent, may prefer to challenge out west, developing confidence and getting gametime.

At the end of the day, it's shouldn't be up to "Leinster Ltd", it should be up to the players and the IRFU. The players need to have a bit of foresight and realise that they're going to suffer by not playing regular rugby, and the IRFU must try to maximise their resources. They must keep their word as well to Connacht. They said they want to get fringe players from other provinces who are potential internationals move west, for the sake of the improvement of Connacht and to give us a fair chance, for the sake of the players themselves and for the sake of the national team. I'm sorry, but Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan don't fall into that category, and I'm not convinced that Dave Kearney and Niall Morris do either. Conway and Ruddock certainly do.

In my opinion, players who take the plunge and decide to move to Connacht to get games and better themselves should be paid better than those who play 'A' rugby and warm benches. There should definitely be a pay structure in place that brings Connacht up to the same level as the other provinces because until this is in place, players will not see the attraction of Connacht. The system is fundamentally wrong for Connacht to attract players and the IRFU must reassess this.

danthefan

porterbelly wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the player managent system. They were away playing internationals. The Player management system is designed between international windows when Kidney and co decide when someone should be rested during the Magners League so that they are fresh come the end of the season and aren't over worked and pick up injuries. The IRFU pay the wages, so they're entitled to call the shots. But they do it in a fair way that all internationals are rested at different times.

SOB played one game. One game in about 6 weeks.

jolley123

porterbelly wrote: »

They must keep their word as well to Connacht. They said they want to get fringe players from other provinces who are potential internationals move west, for the sake of the improvement of Connacht and to give us a fair chance, for the sake of the players themselves and for the sake of the national team. I'm sorry, but Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan don't fall into that category, and I'm not convinced that Dave Kearney and Niall Morris do either. Conway and Ruddock certainly do.

While I agree that Connacht need help in their improvement, I totally disagree with your attitude. Saying you don't want Keogh and Hogan, instead you will have Conway and Ruddock, is just as unfair. Conway, first of all, is a product of the very impressive domestic level in Leinster and so therefore Leinster deserve the right to hold him close. Secondly, I'm sure if you were to ask him wether he wanted to play for Connacht, he would say no. You say you don't want players like Morris or Kearney, then I would say your expectations are too high. The new system isn't going to be one where say you lose Cronin so you get someone close to his calibre. When the IRFU said fringe players, I'm fairly certain they meant players like Kearney, Hogan and Morris. Players who don't and most likely won't get gametime at their province.

Provinces like Leinster and Munster are at the level they are, not only because of the IRFU's help but because of their domestic level that they have put a lot of time and effort into and because of the support they have generated. Connacht at the moment need to inject rugby at a school/club based level and try and gain more support. They can't rely on outside factors to do everything for them.

porterbelly

jolley123 wrote: »

While I agree that Connacht need help in their improvement, I totally disagree with your attitude. Saying you don't want Keogh and Brennan, instead you will have Conway and Ruddock, is just as unfair. Conway, first of all, is a product of the very impressive domestic level in Leinster and so therefore Leinster deserve the right to hold him close. Secondly, I'm sure if you were to ask him wether he wanted to play for Connacht, he would say no. You say you don't want players like Morris or Kearney, then I would say your expectations are too high. The new system isn't going to be one where say you lose Cronin so you get someone close to his calibre. When the IRFU said fringe players, I'm fairly certain they meant players like Kearney, Brennan and Morris. Players who don't and most likely won't get gametime at their province.

Provinces like Leinster and Munster are at the level they are, not only because of the IRFU's help but because of their domestic level that they have put a lot of time and effort into and because of the support they have generated. Connacht at the moment need to inject rugby at a school/club based level and try and gain more support. They can't rely on outside factors to do everything for them.

Who's Brennan?

jolley123

porterbelly wrote: »

Who's Brennan?

Meant Hogan, I'll edit it.

sock puppet

colster wrote: »

McLaughlin, O'Brien and Jennings would be ahead of all those guys and Heaslip is a certain starter.

Not really based on recent Ireland squads. McLaughlin and Jennings will be fighting it out with those players for the final spot and both going seems unlikely.

Deleted User wrote: »

Muldoon is injured, McLaughlin is also injured.
I meant from currently selectable players.

Quinlan wont wear green again imo.

Oh right. Well then you're right it's a definite possibility. I was thinking more about the WC where Kidney would imo go for the more experienced players.

porterbelly

porterbelly wrote: »

At the end of the day, it's shouldn't be up to "Leinster Ltd", it should be up to the players and the IRFU. The players need to have a bit of foresight and realise that they're going to suffer by not playing regular rugby, and the IRFU must try to maximise their resources. They must keep their word as well to Connacht. They said they want to get fringe players from other provinces who are potential internationals move west, for the sake of the improvement of Connacht and to give us a fair chance, for the sake of the players themselves and for the sake of the national team. I'm sorry, but Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan don't fall into that category, and I'm not convinced that Dave Kearney and Niall Morris do either. Conway and Ruddock certainly do.

In my opinion, players who take the plunge and decide to move to Connacht to get games and better themselves should be paid better than those who play 'A' rugby and warm benches. There should definitely be a pay structure in place that brings Connacht up to the same level as the other provinces because until this is in place, players will not see the attraction of Connacht. The system is fundamentally wrong for Connacht to attract players and the IRFU must reassess this.

Good post, helps me see your point of view. But to be fair if you're looking at it from the players viewpoint, its very difficult to say "X should go there". We don't know much about any of the players other than their abilities. Its not as easy as just wearing a new Jersey, joining a new team could be **** scary for some of these lads, especially when you consider that they've probably sweat tears for Leinster since they were teenagers.

Its like what I said in the "Ferris should move" thread. Sometimes its heart over head. In fact, its heart over head a lot of the time in rugby! See lads out there half dead and refusing to come off the pitch. It really isn't as clear cut a decision for us to postulate on as "you will play twice as many games if you go to Connacht".

I would actually say that the Connacht academy will suffer as a result of these loans, players like O'Halloran, who is one of the most skillfull players I've ever seen, might get their growth stunted when these new players come through. This of course could actually be completely wrong and the competition spurs them on further, but we wont actually know for maybe 2/3 years if the system is working.

profitius

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you give me 2 reasons why "Leinster Ltd" would prefer their "second string" players to play for Connacht instead, and have to rely on the 19/21 year olds anytime we are short?

What benefits do Leinster get? Thats what I've found it hard to see.

Surely what would be more beneficial for both, would be for players who aren't getting gametime, aren't being exposed, and are surplus to requirements at Leinster, but would certainly strengthen and develop both themselves and the team at Connacht, to make that move?

This is what happened with Keatley, with Carr too. They weren't getting the opportunities, and headed west to show what they could do.

Its a similar thing to when we discussed SOB not playing in the AIs, or Ross. And most posters said "fair enough, just gonna have to show Kidney that they can do it week in, week out at top level Leinster games".

Sometimes you don't fit in a team, or you're a member of a crazily overpowered back row squad, and you just need a bit of breathing space to kick into the next gear. I don't think players like Conway, or Ruddock need that space. They're progressing fantastically within the Leinster setup.

Players who haven't gotten enough out of the setup, players like Morris and D.Kearney to some extent, may prefer to challenge out west, developing confidence and getting gametime.

-The players learn a lot more and progress faster by playing games.
-Leinster learn about the players quicker so if the players are not good enough they can give opportunities to somebody else. The system of bringing through young players will be greatly improved and Leinster will reap the benefits in the long term.
-The player wages are off the Leinster payrole.
-Young academy players might get a few games for Leinster.
-Munster and Leinster can fill problem positions with the likes of Cronin and keatley. So Connacht has helped there.
-Connacht benefit by having a stronger squad which will make them more competitive.
-Connacht don't have to buy in as much NIQ players.
-Irish rugby improves and the Ireland national team is better which will attract more people to rugby.

profitius

profitius wrote: »

-The players learn a lot more and progress faster by playing games.
-Leinster learn about the players quicker so if the players are not good enough they can give opportunities to somebody else. The system of bringing through young players will be greatly improved and Leinster will reap the benefits in the long term.
-The player wages are off the Leinster payrole.
-Young academy players might get a few games for Leinster.
-Munster and Leinster can fill problem positions with the likes of Cronin and keatley. So Connacht has helped there.
-Connacht benefit by having a stronger squad which will make them more competitive.
-Connacht don't have to buy in as much NIQ players.
-Irish rugby improves and the Ireland national team is better which will attract more people to rugby.

-Debateable
-Untrue, obviously having them in their own training regimes and seeing them week in week out will make it far easier to track their progress.
-Not really true, but not a problem as is anyway?
-Young academy players don't need to be getting more exposure than they already are. There's a reason that Leinster's academy has been spectacularly successful.
-So the previous situation is used as an example of how this new situation is different? Makes no sense!
-Connacht are Leinster's competitors, being cut-throat and ruthless, we don't want them to be better!
-Again, irrelevant in the Leinster context.
-Somewhat more relevant, and as an Irish Rugby fan as a whole, I would agree with. But I still feel that there is so little chance of this being an improvement on the previous scenario from Leinster's point of view.

Leinster's academy has been an incredible success, I hope everyone can agree with me there?
What people are proposing is that Connacht now become an "Academy-Academy" or similar.

But why?

Leinster have brought players through incredibly well, but there are players who haven't come through as fast as could've been hoped. These are the players who could benefit from this new programme. The players who Leinster see as regulars in 2 years wont be leaving. It just doesn't make enough sense!

CouchSmart

LEINSTER SQUAD 2010/11...

FORWARDS: Leo Cullen, John Fogarty, Jason Harris-Wright, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Nathan Hines, Trevor Hogan, Shane Jennings, Stephen Keogh, Ronan McCormack, Jack McGrath*, Kevin McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien, Ed O'Donoghue, Mike Ross, Rhys Ruddock*, Paul Ryan*, Eoin Sheriff*, Richardt Strauss, Devin Toner, Heinke van der Merwe, Stan Wright, Mariano Galarza, Clint Newland.

BACKS: Shaun Berne, Isaac Boss, Andrew Conway, Gordon D'Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald, Shane Horgan, David Kearney, Rob Kearney, Brendan Macken*, Fergus McFadden, Niall Morris*, Isa Nacewa, Paul O'Donohoe, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin O'Malley, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton


*Denotes Development Contract

Leinster Academy Panel 2010/11: Noel Reid, Darren Hudson, Ben Marshall, Jack O’Connell, John Cooney, Sam Coghlan Murray, Jordi Murphy (all Year 1), Dominic Ryan, Michael Keating, Ian Madigan, Mark Flanagan, Ciaran Ruddock, Stewart Maguire (all Year 2), Ian McKinley, Tom Sexton, Eamonn Sheridan (all Year 3)

Just thought I'd add the squads, wouldn't be surprised to see Tom Sexton head west. Dunno who else will. Talk of Rhys Ruddock or Dom Ryan leaving is just stupid, they've been getting plenty of game time.

http://leinsterrugby.ie/4912.php
http://leinsterrugby.ie/4833.php

smurphy29

There does seem to be a bit of an attitude that Leinster somehow owes the rest of the country for producing a steady stream of players.

I cannot get over talk of Dom Ryan and Rhys Ruddock needing to 'go west' for gametime. The two lads are 20 and are getting buckets of exposure - Ryan got 40 HEC minutes last week! Is there any other province that is giving 20yr olds this much exposure?

porterbelly

I don't think Dominic Ryan was mentioned about possible players to go west, it was Paul Ryan. Ruddock has been held back a bit this season with the emergence of Dominic Ryan and with Kevin McLaughlin to return he'll be pushed further down the pecking order. A year in Connacht would do him alot of good but then again I doubt he'll want to go and I can't see Leinste letting him go either.

Don't get me wrong, Leinster don't owe Connacht anything. But that has changed somewhat with the recent new dawn for Connacht and the promises that were made by the IRFU, about how Leinster, Munster and Ulster (although I expect nothing off them) were going to help us out and let selected players come west. That's the whole point of the argument, we got a guarantee from the IRFU that we would helped out in terms of funding and players being moved west to boost our ranks. And by selected players, it was under the criteria of 'fringe player who doesn't get much gametime and could be a future international'. It was overseen by Declan Kidney and agreed by the 3 provinces.

We're not asking the provinces to bend over backwards for us, we're asking them to keep their word.

jolley123

porterbelly wrote: »

I don't think Dominic Ryan was mentioned about possible players to go west, it was Paul Ryan. Ruddock has been held back a bit this season with the emergence of Dominic Ryan and with Kevin McLaughlin to return he'll be pushed further down the pecking order. A year in Connacht would do him alot of good but then again I doubt he'll want to go and I can't see Leinste letting him go either.

Ruddock is too valuable to take IMO. With the world cup coming, Heaslip,SOB and maybe even McLaughlin will be away. Paul Ryan I would agree should go, but Ruddock is too valued. I can see Tom Sexton/JHW/Morris/Flanagan/Keating/CRuddock and maybe McKinnley being realistic choices, and like I said Paul Ryan.

ambid

porterbelly wrote: »

I don't think Dominic Ryan was mentioned about possible players to go west, it was Paul Ryan. Ruddock has been held back a bit this season with the emergence of Dominic Ryan and with Kevin McLaughlin to return he'll be pushed further down the pecking order. A year in Connacht would do him alot of good but then again I doubt he'll want to go and I can't see Leinste letting him go either.

Don't get me wrong, Leinster don't owe Connacht anything. But that has changed somewhat with the recent new dawn for Connacht and the promises that were made by the IRFU, about how Leinster, Munster and Ulster (although I expect nothing off them) were going to help us out and let selected players come west. That's the whole point of the argument, we got a guarantee from the IRFU that we would helped out in terms of funding and players being moved west to boost our ranks. And by selected players, it was under the criteria of 'fringe player who doesn't get much gametime and could be a future international'. It was overseen by Declan Kidney and agreed by the 3 provinces.

We're not asking the provinces to bend over backwards for us, we're asking them to keep their word.

Well said.

The big picture is the development of young Irish players for the benefit of Irish rugby. Connacht has a key role in that. Ireland have been very successful at u-20 level recently so there are lots of good Irish players capable of playing Magners level who're not getting a game. That's not good for Irish rugby. The model that worked for Keatley, Carr, Cronin and Hagan can in time work for others to help those players, the other provinces, Connacht, and Irish rugby.

Connacht works. They were terrific at the start of this year and did well in the Amlin last year. Irish rugby needs a strong Connacht, and our young players reach a stage in development when they need more games at Magners level than they're now getting.

For me it's a matter of who. The why is obvious.

ambid

jolley123 wrote: »

Ruddock is too valuable to take IMO. With the world cup coming, Heaslip,SOB and maybe even McLaughlin will be away. Paul Ryan I would agree should go, but Ruddock is too valued. I can see Tom Sexton/JHW/Morris/Flanagan/Keating/CRuddock and maybe McKinnley being realistic choices, and like I said Paul Ryan.

...and a couple of lads from Munster (Nagle/ Foley/ Zebo?) and Ulster (O'Connor/ Marshall?).

PhatPiggins

ambid wrote: »

...and a couple of lads from Munster (Nagle/ Foley/ Zebo?) and Ulster (O'Connor/ Marshall?).

You could add Ryan Caldwell to that list. Still relatively young but way down the pecking order. Looked decent in the early ML games though.

whysomoody

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jamie Hagan was highly rated as a good scrummager when he was at Leinster, and even played for the senior team, he certainly didn't just learn that when he arrived in Connacht.

No thye didn't! Hagan wasn't even offered an academy contract at Leinster, he was playing for Greystones and brokered a deal with Connacht. Hagan himself will tell you Leinster shafted him.

Morf wrote: »

Any you can say for certain that none of these players could have possibly broken through at their original provinces in an injury crisis etc.?
No! They wouldn't have, they were well down the pecking order, It would have taken a plane crash for some of them to feature!

I give credit to Connacht but i honestly think if Carr, Cronin and Keatley had the same amount of attention at Leinster and Munster they would probably be further on in their development than they are now.

They weren't getting that though, so in that sense Connacht improved them.

porterbelly wrote: »

At the end of the day, it's shouldn't be up to "Leinster Ltd", it should be up to the players and the IRFU. The players need to have a bit of foresight and realise that they're going to suffer by not playing regular rugby, and the IRFU must try to maximise their resources. They must keep their word as well to Connacht. They said they want to get fringe players from other provinces who are potential internationals move west, for the sake of the improvement of Connacht and to give us a fair chance, for the sake of the players themselves and for the sake of the national team. I'm sorry, but Stephen Keogh and Trevor Hogan don't fall into that category, and I'm not convinced that Dave Kearney and Niall Morris do either. Conway and Ruddock certainly do.

In my opinion, players who take the plunge and decide to move to Connacht to get games and better themselves should be paid better than those who play 'A' rugby and warm benches. There should definitely be a pay structure in place that brings Connacht up to the same level as the other provinces because until this is in place, players will not see the attraction of Connacht. The system is fundamentally wrong for Connacht to attract players and the IRFU must reassess this.

This, like a lot of the arguments put forward, bascially rest on whether you would prefer to see Leinster Ltd do well or the Irish rugby team do well. Personally I'd sacrifice any H cup win for any province for 10 years, if Ireland could win a World cup.

ambid

PhatPiggins wrote: »

You could add Ryan Caldwell to that list. Still relatively young but way down the pecking order. Looked decent in the early ML games though.

Gives away an awful lot of penalties though doesn't he? But yeah he is useful.

jolley123

ambid wrote: »

...and a couple of lads from Munster (Nagle/ Foley/ Zebo?) and Ulster (O'Connor/ Marshall?).

Don't know about O'Conner seeing as he is cover for Humphreys. Although Jackson is quite the prodigy I hear, so maybe he will be awarded that role

sock puppet

jolley123 wrote: »

Don't know about O'Conner seeing as he is cover for Humphreys. Although Jackson is quite the prodigy I hear, so maybe he will be awarded that role

If Ruddock is too valuable to Leinster then Jackson is worth even more to Ulster given the dearth of options there now.


edit: or maybe you meant Jackson would take over as back-up to Humphreys?

jolley123

sock puppet wrote: »

If Ruddock is too valuable to Leinster then Jackson is worth even more to Ulster given the dearth of options there now.


edit: or maybe you meant Jackson would take over as back-up to Humphreys?

That is what I meant.

sock puppet

jolley123 wrote: »

That is what I meant.

Ah. O'Connor has a big boot which is something I haven't seen from Nikora (open to correction). I wouldn't call him underrated by any means but if he could improve his accuracy he'd be worth a shot. If Ulster could get Steenson back (anyone know if he's on the radar?) he could well be released.

porterbelly

whysomoody wrote: »

No thye didn't! Hagan wasn't even offered an academy contract at Leinster, he was playing for Greystones and brokered a deal with Connacht. Hagan himself will tell you Leinster shafted him.


They weren't getting that though, so in that sense Connacht improved them.


This, like a lot of the arguments put forward, bascially rest on whether you would prefer to see Leinster Ltd do well or the Irish rugby team do well. Personally I'd sacrifice any H cup win for any province for 10 years, if Ireland could win a World cup.

Leinster can still do well and win a Heineken Cup without some of their young lads. The point being made is that they won't feel the effect of them leaving and that's why it's better all round if they move to Connacht for 1/2 years. Conway will be 5th choice winger come next season and they'd still have McFadden to play on the wing as well as Dave Kearney and Niall Morris, Rhys Ruddock will be 6th choice in the back row, that's if you rate him behind Dominic Ryan and Kevin McLaughlin and ahead of Paul Ryan. They might get a look in in the odd Magners League game against 1/2 of the weaker teams and a few minutes here and there off the bench, but this is nothing on a full season at Connacht. At the end of the day, Leinster will not miss these lads and it would not effect their march towards silverware. It would benefit Connacht Rugby, Irish Rugby and Leinster Rugby in the long run when these lads want to return in year or 2 with games under their belt and vastly improved. Win, win, win.

whysomoody

porterbelly wrote: »

Leinster can still do well and win a Heineken Cup without some of their young lads. The point being made is that they won't feel the effect of them leaving and that's why it's better all round if they move to Connacht for 1/2 years. Conway will be 5th choice winger come next season and they'd still have McFadden to play on the wing as well as Dave Kearney and Niall Morris, Rhys Ruddock will be 6th choice in the back row, that's if you rate him behind Dominic Ryan and Kevin McLaughlin and ahead of Paul Ryan. They might get a look in in the odd Magners League game against 1/2 of the weaker teams and a few minutes here and there off the bench, but this is nothing on a full season at Connacht. At the end of the day, Leinster will not miss these lads and it would not effect their march towards silverware. It would benefit Connacht Rugby, Irish Rugby and Leinster Rugby in the long run when these lads want to return in year or 2 with games under their belt and vastly improved. Win, win, win.

I agree with all of this, I think the argument of them playing a handful of ML games for Leinster doesnt wash, give them proper full seasons, see how they react and learn.

Your approach to a game will change dramatically when you start every week, you see the benefits of your own self-improvement and then if you are as good as you are made out to be, you will be welcomed back with open arms, and if not you could forge a career where otherwise you wouldnt.

profitius

smurphy29 wrote: »

There does seem to be a bit of an attitude that Leinster somehow owes the rest of the country for producing a steady stream of players.

I cannot get over talk of Dom Ryan and Rhys Ruddock needing to 'go west' for gametime. The two lads are 20 and are getting buckets of exposure - Ryan got 40 HEC minutes last week! Is there any other province that is giving 20yr olds this much exposure?

Connacht is getting less money than leinster, Ulster or Munster in return for those provinces agreeing to loan out players to Connacht. So therefore an agreement is an agreement. Leinster is part of Irish rugby and Irish rugby is trying to develop the game all over the country so Leinster could be helping to grow the game in Connacht while benefiting themselves in many way. Its not as though Connacht is a rival either.

As a Munster fan I'd be happy to see 10 fringe squad players from Munster move to Connacht to help them develop instead of sitting on their arses on benches.

danthefan

porterbelly wrote: »

Leinster can still do well and win a Heineken Cup without some of their young lads. The point being made is that they won't feel the effect of them leaving and that's why it's better all round if they move to Connacht for 1/2 years. Conway will be 5th choice winger come next season and they'd still have McFadden to play on the wing as well as Dave Kearney and Niall Morris, Rhys Ruddock will be 6th choice in the back row, that's if you rate him behind Dominic Ryan and Kevin McLaughlin and ahead of Paul Ryan. They might get a look in in the odd Magners League game against 1/2 of the weaker teams and a few minutes here and there off the bench, but this is nothing on a full season at Connacht. At the end of the day, Leinster will not miss these lads and it would not effect their march towards silverware. It would benefit Connacht Rugby, Irish Rugby and Leinster Rugby in the long run when these lads want to return in year or 2 with games under their belt and vastly improved. Win, win, win.

Any chance you'd name a Leinster XXIII without all our players who'll go to the RWC + players you think should go to Connacht?

jolley123

People seem to forget that the players have a say. Nevermind wether Leinster want Conway and Connacht need Conway. Or wether it is good for his development. I'm pretty sure Conway himself would never want or choose to leave Leinster for Connacht.


No offence intended of course.

CouchSmart

Conway has a full contract with Leinster, why would he leave?

CIARAN_BOYLE

CouchSmart wrote: »

Conway has a full contract with Leinster, why would he leave?

ibly because he will have to deal with, fitz, nacewa, carr, horgan, kearney ahead of him in the back three and the need to occasionally blood youngsters for experience reasons further reducing his gametime. Not saying that he is going to go but if he doesn't I wouldn't be surprised to see D Kearney and Morris go.

Johnie Eales

its_phil wrote: »

Thats from the Irish Times

Looks like the men of the playboy mansion are moving on. Devastated,but always knew it was going to happen thought we might get one more year out of the lads.They've been great servants and if the deals do go through,they will be missed.

Just interested to see if Leinster fans think Cronin can take hooker spot off Strauss?

I'm both a Leinster and Cronin fan, he's a line-out throw away fro being brilliant, but Leinster are better off with Strauss. Isn't he Irish qualfied in 2 years anyway?

CouchSmart

Johnie Eales wrote: »

I'm both a Leinster and Cronin fan, he's a line-out throw away fro being brilliant, but Leinster are better off with both. Isn't he Irish qualfied in 2 years anyway?

FTFY

jolley123

Johnie Eales wrote: »

I'm both a Leinster and Cronin fan, he's a line-out throw away fro being brilliant, but Leinster are better off with Strauss. Isn't he Irish qualfied in 2 years anyway?

I remember someone on this forum saying he's qualified around september 2011?

Utopia Parkway

jolley123 wrote: »

People seem to forget that the players have a say. Nevermind wether Leinster want Conway and Connacht need Conway. Or wether it is good for his development. I'm pretty sure Conway himself would never want or choose to leave Leinster for Connacht.


No offence intended of course.

And if he didn't want to go that's fine. You can't make players move and I doubt Connacht would want someone who didn't want to be there anyway.

Eventually though some young players who have talent but are not getting much gametime should be encouraged to consider Connacht as an option for a year or two. The fact that there is a World Cup on late in 2011 seems to be working against Connacht for next season as the other provinces seem to be stockpiling players knowing that the internationals will miss a fair portion or the early part of the season.

Because of that it looks like it will be a tough season next year for Connacht (well I guess most seasons are) having lost 3 of their best players and replacements not so easy to come by in a Wolrd Cup year. Hopefully Elwood can pull a rabbit or two out of the hat.

jolley123

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Eventually though some young players who have talent but are not getting much gametime should be encouraged to consider Connacht as an option for a year or two. The fact that there is a World Cup on late in 2011 seems to be working against Connacht for next season as the other provinces seem to be stockpiling players knowing that the internationals will miss a fair portion or the early part of the season.
.

I agree with you about players who are not getting much gametime. It's just some people on this thread think that Ruddock and Conway fit into that category, when(at the age of 20) they are getting plenty of gametime and will get even more in the future. The names that should be considered are players like Flanagan/PRyan/Morris/Keating, guys who are about 23/24,talented, but aren't getting a look in.

smurphy29

Exactly, jolley, exactly. It's a world cup year next year, Shaggy isn't getting any younger, there'll be injuries... Conway will get his chances. The chap only left school what... 18 months ago? He's had plenty of exposure so far, coming along very nicely. And he'll get even more next year.

irishbucsfan

The idea that Rhys Ruddock would be better suited leaving Leinster to go to Connacht so that he could play a few more games is laughable. He would be best suited staying in Leinster, with their better facilities and better coaches, and learning from great pros like BOD and Heaslip and Johnno Gibbes. Even if that means playing a few B&I Cup games (against English Championship teams who would give Connacht a good game).

Same goes for any Leinster/Munster player on full contracts. I think the fact that we're going into a World Cup season makes it much less likely that players will be willing to leave Leinster/Munster.

profitius

Maybe the loans could start around december next season. Thats when Connacht's squad is usually starting to stretch and all the internationals will be back with the provinces too. Not great timing for Connacht but new arrivals should boost the small squad.

I'd agree too about U20 players going to Connacht. Conway is very young yet. The likes of Morris and Sheridan are at the right age to move and even Ruddock is fully developed and mature.

Utopia Parkway

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The idea that Rhys Ruddock would be better suited leaving Leinster to go to Connacht so that he could play a few more games is laughable. He would be best suited staying in Leinster, with their better facilities and better coaches, and learning from great pros like BOD and Heaslip and Johnno Gibbes. Even if that means playing a few B&I Cup games (against English Championship teams who would give Connacht a good game).

Well that attitude isn't all that helpful either. The one that says sure Connacht are useless anyway with substanded facilites. Extend that argument and why should anyone bother going there if that's the case? Once you get into that mindset the whole point of maintaining Connacht as a viable entity seems kinda pointless.

its_phil

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Even if that means playing a few B&I Cup games (against English Championship teams who would give Connacht a good game).

Seriously?!:mad:

ambid

jolley123 wrote: »

I remember someone on this forum saying he's qualified around september 2011?

Not sure about that. This is his second season and he needs to be here a full three years to qualify. There was an article on him a few months ago on either the Irish Times or Independent website which said he'll be qualified sometime around Autumn 2012 (if I remember correctly).

He is a terrific player though.

CouchSmart

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Even if that means playing a few B&I Cup games (against English Championship teams who would give Connacht a good game).

its_phil wrote: »

Seriously?!:mad:

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/12473.php

porterbelly

CouchSmart wrote: »

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/12473.php

Freak result, they happen. We haven't the luxury of bringing in quality players when we rotate our team.

CouchSmart

porterbelly wrote: »

Freak result, they happen. We haven't the luxury of bringing in quality players when we rotate our team.

Yep. Was just pointing out that Connacht playing against a Championship side would definitely be competitive.

irishbucsfan

its_phil wrote: »

Seriously?!:mad:

I meant that more as a compliment to the Championship teams.

And yes I believe it. For example look at how well Exeter are doing this year in the Premiership.

its_phil

CouchSmart wrote: »

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/12473.php

http://www.magnersleague.com/matchcentre/5107.php;)

EDIT:Sorry man just having a bit of fun

CouchSmart

its_phil wrote: »

http://www.magnersleague.com/matchcentre/5107.php;)

RuggieBear

ffs grow up the pair of you

its_phil

CouchSmart wrote: »

Haha.Your very good with photoshop!;)

That was a sad day for me personally,the slagging i got off my Leinster mates for it when my argument of "you've won just as many HC as us" went out the window!:p

Seriously though,can i just ask Leinster fans what players think could develop better by being at Connacht rather than the Leinster?
I think Tom Sexton,McKinley and Jordi Murphy would come on a huge amount by joining Connacht