Cronin to Leinster,Keatley and Carr in talks with clubs

Lawstudent1 · 19-12-2010 04:09PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Leinster have alot of backrows coming through, but Munster wouldn't look too bad for Wally's and Quinny's retirements, although Wallace still has a season or two in him; He is still Ireland's strongest ball carrier but he has lost some of his pace. O'Mahony and Butler are great prospects and there are another few there that will most likely make it. Munster's young players are probably a year or two too young to replace the legends yet though.

My problem is look at the difference in quality between O'Mahony and Butler and Dominic Ryan and Ruddock despite being the same age. Its up in the air whether Butler and O'Mahony will go onto be internationals let alone class internations but I think its safe to say Ruddock and Ryan will be.
We hear all the time that the IRFU is in charge of the provinces well if thats the case why are Leinster allowed so many quality backrow players when they're needed elsewhere. I mean Leinster already have 2/3 of what should be the Irish backrow in O'Brien and Heaslip and probably have the future Irish 6 and 7 in Ruddock and Ryan. Then they have quality like Shane Jennings and Kevin McLaughlin who when fit was first choice 6 after Ferris.

Oh and now they've gone and signed the best upcoming hooker in the country and Carr....and they'll probably keep all their prospects as well how is that fair

Cpt_Blackbeard · 19-12-2010 04:40PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

My problem is look at the difference in quality between O'Mahony and Butler and Dominic Ryan and Ruddock despite being the same age. Its up in the air whether Butler and O'Mahony will go onto be internationals let alone class internations but I think its safe to say Ruddock and Ryan will be.
We hear all the time that the IRFU is in charge of the provinces well if thats the case why are Leinster allowed so many quality backrow players when they're needed elsewhere. I mean Leinster already have 2/3 of what should be the Irish backrow in O'Brien and Heaslip and probably have the future Irish 6 and 7 in Ruddock and Ryan. Then they have quality like Shane Jennings and Kevin McLaughlin who when fit was first choice 6 after Ferris.

Oh and now they've gone and signed the best upcoming hooker in the country and Carr....and they'll probably keep all their prospects as well how is that fair

I think its perfectly fair, if you produce the players you should reap the rewards.

Butler is a fantastic prospect and has great ball skills. He just needs to work on his size before he breaks into the Munster team. O'Mahony was the Irish U20 captain and will make it. The difference is that Leinster brings players through more quickly.

danthefan · 19-12-2010 04:41PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

My problem is look at the difference in quality between O'Mahony and Butler and Dominic Ryan and Ruddock despite being the same age. Its up in the air whether Butler and O'Mahony will go onto be internationals let alone class internations but I think its safe to say Ruddock and Ryan will be.
We hear all the time that the IRFU is in charge of the provinces well if thats the case why are Leinster allowed so many quality backrow players when they're needed elsewhere. I mean Leinster already have 2/3 of what should be the Irish backrow in O'Brien and Heaslip and probably have the future Irish 6 and 7 in Ruddock and Ryan. Then they have quality like Shane Jennings and Kevin McLaughlin who when fit was first choice 6 after Ferris.

Oh and now they've gone and signed the best upcoming hooker in the country and Carr....and they'll probably keep all their prospects as well how is that fair

Why the hell should Leinster develop players for other provinces? How is that fair?

And you realise players aren't pieces of meat, right? You know, guys might actually want to play for their own province. Ryan is getting games at Leinster at 20 years old why would he be interested in moving somewhere else? Leinster are the best team in Ireland and have by far the best record recently when it comes to developing young players.

I assume you'd rather Cronin went to Munster? Cronin, Flannery and Varley would all be there, exactly the sort of situation you're moaning about.

its_phil · 19-12-2010 04:42PM

What Connacht need now for next season is:

1.A hooker-Tom Sexton from Leinster perhaps?
2.A Backrow-Jordi Murphy could be a great option imo or Butler
3.A secondrow-???
4.Outhalf-Madigan/Cusack
5.Wing-Zebo if Munster dont see him fitting in to first 22 yet,and with Carr leaving this is the chance for O'Halloran (when injury free) to take his chance.
6.Center-???

Oh and Euan Murray can join connacht because we only play games on cold Friday nights!:D

its_phil · 19-12-2010 04:44PM

danthefan wrote: »

I assume you'd rather Cronin went to Munster? Cronin, Flannery and Varley would all be there, exactly the sort of situation you're moaning about.

I'd assume he'd prefer they stay at Connacht.

Lawstudent1 · 19-12-2010 04:49PM

danthefan wrote: »

Why the hell should Leinster develop players for other provinces? How is that fair?

And you realise players aren't pieces of meat, right? You know, guys might actually want to play for their own province. Ryan is getting games at Leinster at 20 years old why would he be interested in moving somewhere else? Leinster are the best team in Ireland and have by far the best record recently when it comes to developing young players.

I assume you'd rather Cronin went to Munster? Cronin, Flannery and Varley would all be there, exactly the sort of situation you're moaning about.

Well we hear all the time that the provinces are only branches of the IRFU and that the national team always comes first so how is it in the national interest to have the likes of McLaughlin, Dominic Ryan and Ruddock on the bench or not even in the 22 for most games when they could be starting elsewhere
And for the record I wanted Cronin to stay put. I think Carr should have gone to Munster though. If we're honest with the quality of Leinster's squad currently and the amount of players coming through they have no excuse to be signing players. I'm an Irish fan first and foremost and I dont want the careers of McLaughlin, Ryan, Ruddock, Cronin, Carr, Conway stunted by going to or staying at a team where they may not get consistent game time when theres game time available

danthefan · 19-12-2010 04:51PM

its_phil wrote: »

I'd assume he'd prefer they stay at Connacht.

There's no point in them staying at Connacht, they'll get nowhere there.

Cronin has the chance to be the first choice hooker in an all Irish front row in one of the best teams in Europe, somebody please explain the downside to me?

its_phil · 19-12-2010 04:56PM

danthefan wrote: »

There's no point in them staying at Connacht, they'll get nowhere there.

Cronin has the chance to be the first choice hooker in an all Irish front row in one of the best teams in Europe, somebody please explain the downside to me?

Because I'm a Connacht fan,and one of our best players is leaving thats the downside for my province.

danthefan · 19-12-2010 04:57PM

its_phil wrote: »

Because I'm a Connacht fan,and one of our best players is leaving thats the downside for my province.

Ah yes, that's certainly fair enough.

I meant in the context of the conversation though, Lawstudent1 is talking about the good of Irish rugby.

Lawstudent1 · 19-12-2010 04:58PM

its_phil wrote: »

What Connacht need now for next season is:

1.A hooker-Tom Sexton from Leinster perhaps?
2.A Backrow-Jordi Murphy could be a great option imo or Butler
3.A secondrow-???
4.Outhalf-Madigan/Cusack
5.Wing-Zebo if Munster dont see him fitting in to first 22 yet,and with Carr leaving this is the chance for O'Halloran (when injury free) to take his chance.
6.Center-???

Oh and Euan Murray can join connacht because we only play games on cold Friday nights!:D

I'd like to see the following go to Connacht
1. Kyricao from Ulster as hes third choice there anway
2. Rhys Ruddock from Leinster as hes currently 3rd choice soon to be 4th with McLaughlin coming back
3. Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan as both have no chance of getting ahead of the players ahead of them
4.Paul O'Donahoue - Hes not getting any game time at Leinster
5. Andrew Conway - for a season or two on loan he could develop his game
6. Ian Madigan - could be very useful as utility full back/outhalf
7. Dave Kearney - Leinster have no use for him with Carr coming
8. Niall Morris - See above

It should be a case of give and take.

danthefan · 19-12-2010 04:59PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

I'd like to see the following go to Connacht
1. Kyricao from Ulster as hes third choice there anway
2. Rhys Ruddock from Leinster as hes currently 3rd choice soon to be 4th with McLaughlin coming back
3. Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan as both have no chance of getting ahead of the players ahead of them
4.Paul O'Donahoue - Hes not getting any game time at Leinster
5. Andrew Conway - for a season or two on loan he could develop his game
6. Ian Madigan - could be very useful as utility full back/outhalf
7. Dave Kearney - Leinster have no use for him with Carr coming
8. Niall Morris - See above

It should be a case of give and take.

Would you seriously think about some of these? There is absolutely no chance of Devin Toner moving to Connacht. It's a laughable idea.

Foxtrol · 19-12-2010 05:01PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

My problem is look at the difference in quality between O'Mahony and Butler and Dominic Ryan and Ruddock despite being the same age. Its up in the air whether Butler and O'Mahony will go onto be internationals let alone class internations but I think its safe to say Ruddock and Ryan will be.
We hear all the time that the IRFU is in charge of the provinces well if thats the case why are Leinster allowed so many quality backrow players when they're needed elsewhere. I mean Leinster already have 2/3 of what should be the Irish backrow in O'Brien and Heaslip and probably have the future Irish 6 and 7 in Ruddock and Ryan. Then they have quality like Shane Jennings and Kevin McLaughlin who when fit was first choice 6 after Ferris.

Oh and now they've gone and signed the best upcoming hooker in the country and Carr....and they'll probably keep all their prospects as well how is that fair

The IRFU might be in charge of the provinces but they cant force the players to move if they don't want to. Most of the young Leinster lads are in college in Dublin, have family and friends there and have probably dreamed of playing for Leinster in a Heineken Cup Final. Im sure the IRFU would bite off Ruddock or Ryans hand if they came to them saying they wanted to move West but until they are told by Leinster they are surplus to requirements or a time comes where they arent happy with their first team involvement I cant see how the IRFU can force a guy to move to the other side of the country and expect them to be happy about it. Felix Jones has shown that if a player wants to move between provinces there's little their home province can do about it.

As far as Butler and O'Mahony are concerned we cant see how far along they are with their development because they aren't getting any proper opportunities for decent game time. Leinster on the other hand have been blooding their young players and are now reaping the rewards. Im not saying Leinster are perfect in this regard as before his breakthrough McLaughlin nearly quit rugby all together due to his lack of game time. On current trends I see nothing that would give me any hope that Munster would put a 20 year old backrow on the bench in a must win Heineken match if there were more experienced options available.

its_phil · 19-12-2010 05:05PM

danthefan wrote: »

Ah yes, that's certainly fair enough.

I meant in the context of the conversation though, Lawstudent1 is talking about the good of Irish rugby.

But is Cronin 100% guaranteed to start in that front-row?Im sad that the 3 bucks are leaving and all 3 have given some great moments to the fans over the last 3 years and it would only have been naive to think they would be at connacht forever from the offset.

But i think it's irritating for connacht fans because the 3 players are going from starting at connacht to another province where they are not guaranteed game time.I think the three should have stayed one more year,just to develop a bit more.

WeeBushy · 19-12-2010 05:08PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

I'd like to see the following go to Connacht
1. Kyricao from Ulster as hes third choice there anway
2. Rhys Ruddock from Leinster as hes currently 3rd choice soon to be 4th with McLaughlin coming back No way will Leinster let him go, he's one of the most talented youngsters in the country. They'll let Keogh go first
3. Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan as both have no chance of getting ahead of the players ahead of them Both of them are in the 22 for their province, silly suggestion
4.Paul O'Donahoue - Hes not getting any game time at Leinster Been injured for most of this season, hasn't had much of a chance to get game time
5. Andrew Conway - for a season or two on loan he could develop his game A season long loan possibly, but I'm sure Leinster will want to be in charge of their most talented young back coming through
6. Ian Madigan - could be very useful as utility full back/outhalf 3rd choice ouhalf, and as we have seen important to Leinster in the case of injuries
7. Dave Kearney - Leinster have no use for him with Carr coming
8. Niall Morris - See above

It should be a case of give and take.

Wishful thinking for a lot of those suggestions. Would of course be great for Connacht, but their provinces are never going to let them go because they are important squad members.

Someone like Keogh probably wont be needed next season at Leinster so they can afford to let him go, but we're talking about some of the best sides in Europe, they are going to be hell bent on having the best possible squad to compete in the magners and heniken cup. And the players will want to be involved in these sides becasue they are at teh highest level.

its_phil · 19-12-2010 05:11PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

I'd like to see the following go to Connacht
1. Kyricao from Ulster as hes third choice there anway
2. Rhys Ruddock from Leinster as hes currently 3rd choice soon to be 4th with McLaughlin coming back
3. Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan as both have no chance of getting ahead of the players ahead of them
4.Paul O'Donahoue - Hes not getting any game time at Leinster
5. Andrew Conway - for a season or two on loan he could develop his game
6. Ian Madigan - could be very useful as utility full back/outhalf
7. Dave Kearney - Leinster have no use for him with Carr coming
8. Niall Morris - See above

It should be a case of give and take.

The last 3 are the only ones i think we would have a shot at signing

Jedwardian · 19-12-2010 05:43PM

For a long time I agreed with the line of thinking that one province shouldn't "hoard" talent but the game is changing.

Just to be clear, I'm a Leinster fan. I want Leinster to compete with the top teams in Europe and challenge for Magners League crowns and Heineken Cup titles year on year. At the moment Toulouse are the standard bearers in European rugby. Look at their squad:
http://www.stadetoulousain.fr/Effectif-16.html

Toulouse have two internationals in every position. They need a squad of this size because injuries take their toll, international breaks denude them of players, they play well over 30 club games per season and they need to rotate players to keep their squad fresh. All of this is true for Leinster also.

Sean Cronin is needed because Richardt Strauss is currently the only realistic option available to Leinster. Having Richardt Strauss and Sean Cronin fighting for the hooker spot will raise both their games, be good for Leinster and good for Ireland. Fionn Carr doesn't fill as pressing a need but as we saw yesterday, Leinster were forced into picking a centre on the left wing. Having a finisher like Carr makes that less likely to happen and it also allows the team to rest Shane Horgan and Isa Nacewa more often.

In the backrow, Leinster can't afford to lose Kevin McLaughlin, Rhys Ruddock, Dominic Ryan or Shane Jennings. With the World Cup next September and October, Jamie Heaslip and Sean O'Brien are probably going to be in New Zealand for a large portion of the Magners League before Christmas. The four other backrowers will all be needed to make up for the absence of the internationals. Come 2012/13 it may be possible to lose one of those players but that's not the case next season.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 19-12-2010 06:15PM

Jedwardian wrote: »

Sean Cronin is needed because Richardt Strauss is currently the only realistic option available to Leinster. Having Richardt Strauss and Sean Cronin fighting for the hooker spot will raise both their games, be good for Leinster and good for Ireland.

As a Munster fan I'd much prefer that Cronin and Varley both fight it out for the Munster Jersey, but we just have too much depth at 2 these days. In a perfect world Fla should be given until the WC to find fitness. If he can't get fit, Cronin should come to Munster to fight it out with Varley. Personally I'd have Varley ahead of Cronin right now, but he would be fantastic in the last 30 when he could run rings round the opposition forwards with his pace.

I don't want Munster to have to come up against Cronin, but with Varley Sherry Fogarty and Fla we have great talent at 2. If Leinster are looking for a sub Hooker, Fogarty would be a good player. He needs to work on his throwing but he is good in the loose.

danthefan · 19-12-2010 06:16PM

Fogarty is rubbish.

Jedwardian · 19-12-2010 06:21PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

If Leinster are looking for a sub Hooker, Fogarty would be a good player. He needs to work on his throwing but he is good in the loose.

Leinster aren't looking for a sub hooker, they're looking for a second starting calibre hooker. Much like you want to see Sean Cronin go to Munster to fight it out with Damien Varley, I want Cronin to come to Leinster to fight it out with Richardt Strauss.

thomond2006 · 19-12-2010 06:23PM

danthefan wrote: »

Fogarty is rubbish.

Rubbish at throwing while excellent in the loose. Shame really.

If he's out of contract in May I wouldn't keep him at Munster with Sherry looking an awesome prospect.

danthefan · 19-12-2010 06:27PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rubbish at throwing while excellent in the loose. Shame really.

If he's out of contract in May I wouldn't keep him at Munster with Sherry looking an awesome prospect.

And he's a hooker. So he's rubbish.

thomond2006 · 19-12-2010 06:33PM

danthefan wrote: »

And he's a hooker. So he's rubbish.

I'm agreeing with you.

19-12-2010 06:34PM

Why would you ever look to sign a "Sub" player?

That is a nonsense argument.

Leinster play X amount of games a year, and nobody plays them all. Rugby is a rough and ready game, and injuries occur.

Replacements are required frequently, and having players of "Starting" quality to call on at all times is a must.

The Boss to Leinster swap made no sense to me until I got my head around how to be a winning team. You can't play the same game every week, you need to be flexible, have a 9 or a 2 or a 1-15 that play a little bit different.

Leinster really aren't far off having a 30man squad with no weaknesses. (10 is our only big problem imo)

ambid · 19-12-2010 06:41PM

Lawstudent1 wrote: »

I'd like to see the following go to Connacht
1. Kyricao from Ulster as hes third choice there anway
2. Rhys Ruddock from Leinster as hes currently 3rd choice soon to be 4th with McLaughlin coming back
3. Devin Toner or Donnacha Ryan as both have no chance of getting ahead of the players ahead of them
4.Paul O'Donahoue - Hes not getting any game time at Leinster
5. Andrew Conway - for a season or two on loan he could develop his game
6. Ian Madigan - could be very useful as utility full back/outhalf
7. Dave Kearney - Leinster have no use for him with Carr coming
8. Niall Morris - See above

It should be a case of give and take.

Agree with most of this:
1. Kyriacou - Good suggestion. Experienced and Irish Qualified.
2. Ruddock - No chance. Leinster need him in a world cup year. After that Leinster should free up their back rows. IRFU spending a fortune on South Africans in Ulster who don't seem much better than the Leinster lads.
3. Toner - No chance. He's been great this season. Leinster need at least 3 class second rows.
3. Donnacha Ryan - Maybe. His progress seems to stall. At his age he needs to be more than a sub.
4. Paul O'Donoghue - Good suggestion but is he better than Frank Murphy?
5. Conway - Good suggestion. Loan could help everybody - but not in RWC year.
6. Madigan - Leinster need him, short of cover for Sexton.
7. Dave Kearney - yeah a move probably suits everybody, but after RWC
8. Morris - same as above

I'd also suggest:
9. Ed O'Donoghue - after RWC
10. Niall O'Connor - not getting a game in Ulster
11. Ian Nagle - maybe a loan as not getting a game in Munster
12. Barry Murphy - the forgotten man
13. Ian McKinley - 4th choice fly half at Leinster but a good player

Exeter also have a lot of Irish lads if the IRFU want to bring them home.

Leinster & Munster will both probably be releasing 12 or so players during the world cup. If Ireland get to the quarters, and if they need to give those guys a break afterwards, the provinces mightn't get internationals back until early/ mid November. In that case the provinces will need squads of 38 - 40 to cover the 12 they'll lose to the RWC.

It will create a bottleneck though unfortunately, and after the 30 internationals come home a lot of players who should be playing Magners League level won't be getting a game.

Shame there is no winter transfer window !

JustinDee · 19-12-2010 07:20PM

I think people are forgetting the one important factor in where a player plays: what the player wants.
They are not simply 'placed' at a province.

ambid · 19-12-2010 07:29PM

JustinDee wrote: »

I think people are forgetting the one important factor in where a player plays: what the player wants.
They are not simply 'placed' at a province.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that.

Posters are simply speculating on who might be good options to improve Connacht.

Obviously players decide where they want to play. Nobody has suggested otherwise.

porterbelly · 19-12-2010 08:14PM

If anyone mentions that Trevor Hogan and Stephen Keogh would be great signings for Connacht again I'll go cracked. Neither are near good enough, they never get a game with Leinster and would add nothing too us. Hogan would be 5th choice with us behind Swifty, Mike McCarthy, Upton and Andrew Browne. Swifty and McCarthy put in huge work for us, Upton is a decent lineout operator and Browne has hit some good from recently on the blindside. How long will it take Hogan to get back up to the speed of playing 1st team rugby after a couple of years not near a 1st team.

Stephen Keogh is a very average no8 who wouldn't add a new dimension to our team. Muldoon is playing out of position at 8 at the minute although he broke his arm on Friday night, and Muldoon is a quality player, way better at 6 though, Mike McComish is a solid operator, and we haven't seen much of Ezra Taylor but he has more to offer than Keogh. I would love to see George Naoupu back in a Connacht jersey and we should be targetting the likes of Rhys Ruddock/Peter O'Mahony, Ruddock being the preffered option.

I can't understand some of the greediness of Leinster fans. Suggesting Keogh or Jordi Murphy is poor form. When you consider the options Leinster have when all are fully fit : Heaslip, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, D.Ryan, Ruddock, Paul Ryan and the come Keogh and Murphy. 7 good options. 2 of these aren't going to see games much, the most likely being Paul Ryan and Ruddock. They'll go nowhere playing A rugby and getting a few minutes here and there in the Magners League. Some will say why should Leinster have to give away players, but it will hardly effect them if they aren't going to be playing and the likelihood is the players will be vastly improved 2 years down the line and may want to return.

Andrew Conway is wasting his time in Leinster with Carr's arrival. Carr, Nacewa, Luke Fitz and Shaggy are all ahead of him. Some will say Shaggy will be phased out but I disagree becuase he offers a completely differnt dimension to the other 3 with his height, strength and catching. Conway should come west for 2 years, play regular rugby and he'll reap the rewards. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

At the end of the day, Connacht need to get players who can improve the team and make an impact so that we can improve and get up the table. We aren't going to do that getting academy players like Jordi Murphy or journeymen like Trevor Hogan and Stephen Keogh. In fairness, Leinster have gotten Cronin and Carr off us, the least we deserve is a few decent players in return.

irishbucsfan · 19-12-2010 08:30PM

porterbelly wrote: »

If anyone mentions that Trevor Hogan and Stephen Keogh would be great signings for Connacht again I'll go cracked. Neither are near good enough, they never get a game with Leinster and would add nothing too us. Hogan would be 5th choice with us behind Swifty, Mike McCarthy, Upton and Andrew Browne. Swifty and McCarthy put in huge work for us, Upton is a decent lineout operator and Browne has hit some good from recently on the blindside. How long will it take Hogan to get back up to the speed of playing 1st team rugby after a couple of years not near a 1st team.

Stephen Keogh is a very average no8 who wouldn't add a new dimension to our team. Muldoon is playing out of position at 8 at the minute although he broke his arm on Friday night, and Muldoon is a quality player, way better at 6 though, Mike McComish is a solid operator, and we haven't seen much of Ezra Taylor but he has more to offer than Keogh. I would love to see George Naoupu back in a Connacht jersey and we should be targetting the likes of Rhys Ruddock/Peter O'Mahony, Ruddock being the preffered option.

I can't understand some of the greediness of Leinster fans. Suggesting Keogh or Jordi Murphy is poor form. When you consider the options Leinster have when all are fully fit : Heaslip, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, D.Ryan, Ruddock, Paul Ryan and the come Keogh and Murphy. 7 good options. 2 of these aren't going to see games much, the most likely being Paul Ryan and Ruddock. They'll go nowhere playing A rugby and getting a few minutes here and there in the Magners League. Some will say why should Leinster have to give away players, but it will hardly effect them if they aren't going to be playing and the likelihood is the players will be vastly improved 2 years down the line and may want to return.

Andrew Conway is wasting his time in Leinster with Carr's arrival. Carr, Nacewa, Luke Fitz and Shaggy are all ahead of him. Some will say Shaggy will be phased out but I disagree becuase he offers a completely differnt dimension to the other 3 with his height, strength and catching. Conway should come west for 2 years, play regular rugby and he'll reap the rewards. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

At the end of the day, Connacht need to get players who can improve the team and make an impact so that we can improve and get up the table. We aren't going to do that getting academy players like Jordi Murphy or journeymen like Trevor Hogan and Stephen Keogh. In fairness, Leinster have gotten Cronin and Carr off us, the least we deserve is a few decent players in return.

Here is a connacht fan who wants to take players that Connacht have had no hand in developing, and then calls Leinster fans greedy when we suggest they take players we aren't using. :pac:

And if Connacht don't want Stephen Keogh then I'll be delighted to keep him. He was one of our best players at times in the ML last season. He would be a class act for Connacht.

19-12-2010 08:36PM

porterbelly wrote: »

I can't understand some of the greediness of Leinster fans. Suggesting Keogh or Jordi Murphy is poor form. When you consider the options Leinster have when all are fully fit : Heaslip, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, D.Ryan, Ruddock, Paul Ryan and the come Keogh and Murphy. 7 good options. 2 of these aren't going to see games much, the most likely being Paul Ryan and Ruddock. They'll go nowhere playing A rugby and getting a few minutes here and there in the Magners League. Some will say why should Leinster have to give away players, but it will hardly effect them if they aren't going to be playing and the likelihood is the players will be vastly improved 2 years down the line and may want to return.

Come off it.

Leinster are a competitive team. They want the best team/best pool of players to pick from at all times.

Connacht are their opponents twice a year, and compete in the same league. Why would they actually weaken their own player pool while strengthening a competitors? What genuinely good results can come of that from Leinster Ltd's view?

The only players that will move anywhere are those that don't cut it at Leinster. Or those who choose to battle it out with another challenge out west as opposed to fighting for medals. Looking at it from player's perspectives, playing week in week out for Connacht could definitely be deemed preferable to fighting for a spot in the Leinster back row. But who are we to say anything about the players' individual preferences?

Selfish of the club perhaps, but very understandable.

Jedwardian · 19-12-2010 08:36PM

porterbelly wrote: »

2 of these aren't going to see games much, the most likely being Paul Ryan and Ruddock. They'll go nowhere playing A rugby and getting a few minutes here and there in the Magners League. Some will say why should Leinster have to give away players, but it will hardly effect them if they aren't going to be playing and the likelihood is the players will be vastly improved 2 years down the line and may want to return.

I hear what you're saying and agree with respect to Paul Ryan. A stint in Connacht would do him the world of good. I disagree wholehearedly about Rhys Ruddock though. Even though he's just turned 20, he's played 6 times for Leinster already this season and has an international cap to his name. With the World Cup coming up next season he's going to get plenty of opportunities. Going to Connacht will be of no benefit to him.

porterbelly wrote: »

Andrew Conway is wasting his time in Leinster with Carr's arrival. Carr, Nacewa, Luke Fitz and Shaggy are all ahead of him. Some will say Shaggy will be phased out but I disagree becuase he offers a completely differnt dimension to the other 3 with his height, strength and catching. Conway should come west for 2 years, play regular rugby and he'll reap the rewards. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Again I completely disagree. He was starting to get a run of games before his injury against Ospreys. He'll feature on plenty more occasions before the end of the season. Fitzgerald is going to the World Cup, as is Rob Kearney which will open up more opportunities for him next year. Michael Keating, Niall Morris, Brendan Macken, Dave Kearney, Eamon Sheridan, Darren Hudson and Noel Reid are far more realistic targets for Connacht.

Cronin to Leinster,Keatley and Carr in talks with clubs

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