Mother died of hypothermia after council turned heat off

Caoimhín

banquo wrote: »

(I live in the Ballymun area.)

Do you know if the heating was broken or if the council turned it off?

BostonB

banquo wrote: »

...The lady in question had made both written and personal appeals to her local TD, Noel Ahern, for either the heating to be turned on for a limited time each night, or for a contribution to purchase an alternative form of heating.

(I live in the Ballymun area.)

One paper says they appealed to have it fixed.

ejmaztec

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Other flats in that block were empty as regeneration was ongoing. I'm sorry but have to proof that they didn't try to re-house her?

Or is that just an assumption?

The greatest assumption that I would make, is that a local authority wouldn't make any of its properties uninhabitable, without providing alternative accommodation for its tenants.

Another assumption I'm making is that the Council is probably busily looking for a scapegoat to get itself off the hook.

Gulliver

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

You haven't actually read the article, have you?

Yes, I did read it. She contacted the Minister for Housing to get the matter fixed. She contacted the council. There was NO mention in the article that she had tried to keep her body warm on the night in question.

Look, I'm not bashing the poor woman that died, it's the reaction that "the council KILLED her" that annoys me. The second article says she had a "borderline personality disorder". If true,why was she left alone in a freezing flat? Why didn't the HSE step in and get her fast-tracked?

dublin99

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

Dublin City Council had no regard for their responsibility as accomodation provider/ landlord. Perhaps all these civil servants should be moved from their posh city offices and rehoused in the empty Ballymun flats with no heating for a week during the next cold snap! Talking about a taste of their own medicine.

Dudess

Yeah, because office lackeys are personally responsible for their managers' decisions.

If the block was mostly unoccupied though, had she been given a directive to vacate the flat?

Although:

Irish Examiner wrote:

The inquest heard how she had contacted Dublin City Council in relation to the matter but was told the heating would not be turned back on as a number of flats around her had been vacated and were empty and because regeneration was ongoing.

Feck it, that's harsh. And why should she stay somewhere else? That was her home. What if she had nowhere else to go? Did the council just assume she had access to an alternative source of heat?

I find it hard to believe the council could have been that unthinking, it's not in the business of deliberately letting people die - still though, a dreadful mistake by them...

Had it foreseen the consequences, it would surely be required to provide her and other occupants with alternative accommodation.

Caoimhín

dublin99 wrote: »

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

If that is indeed the case then there should be an investigation into the matter.

BostonB

dublin99 wrote: »

The heating system was deliberately turned off to save money as the whole block had to be heated and there were only a few tenants living in it - a lot of heat would be wasted in the vacant derelict flats, many with no windows etc...

Dublin City Council had no regard for their responsibility as accomodation provider/ landlord. Perhaps all these civil servants should be moved from their posh city offices and rehoused in the empty Ballymun flats with no heating for a week during the next cold snap! Talking about a taste of their own medicine.

If it was turned off, why were they appealing to have it "fixed".

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Gulliver wrote: »

Yes, I did read it. She contacted the Minister for Housing to get the matter fixed. She contacted the council. There was NO mention in the article that she had tried to keep her body warm on the night in question.

Look, I'm not bashing the poor woman that died, it's the reaction that "the council KILLED her" that annoys me. The second article says she had a "borderline personality disorder". If true,why was she left alone in a freezing flat? Why didn't the HSE step in and get her fast-tracked?

It doesn't say she didn't try to keep herself warm either.

The decision that the council made lead to her death.

Not sure what the following has to do with anything.

The victim, who had a borderline personality disorder, also suffered from back pain.

Kennie1

Caoimhín wrote: »

Would it be cold hearted to suggest that if she had no obvious physical or psychological problems, why is it societies responsibility to keep her warm?

Yes it is cold hearted. We are supposed to live in a civilised country for pitys sake.

RIP and thoughts for her children and family.

dublin99

Dudess wrote: »

If the block was mostly unoccupied though, had she been given a directive to vacate the flat?

She had been on a waiting list to be rehoused by the council but apparently was not a priority case even she had two young children. Anyone with a choice would get out of that place pronto.

Ironically, if she had rented from a private landlord (say with rent allowance) she is legally entitled to certain standards in the flat in terms of heating etc. If heating/water etc if off for an extended period of time, she could have been entitled to alternative accomodation at the landlords expense and any disputes would be dealt with by the PRTB. Unfortunately you have no such rights even to basic heating when your landlord is a public body.

jackiebaron

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

:mad:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0129/1224288526625.html
I have never before heard of the likes of this, basically someone needs to be done for manslaughter.

Haven't read through the posts but have the usual suspects come out saying she's only got herself to blame?

BostonB

dublin99 wrote: »

....If heating/water etc if off for an extended period of time, she could have been entitled to alternative accomodation at the landlords expense....

I don't think thats true. Can you back that up with anything?

Ditto, the heating was deliberately turned off, rather than broken?

maringo

a person on their own suffering from hypothermia would be very vulnerable.

The Mayo Clinic describe hypothermia on as follows:
Symptoms By Mayo Clinic staff
Shivering is your body's automatic defense against cold temperature — an attempt to warm itself. Constant shivering is a key sign of hypothermia. Signs and symptoms of hypothermia include:
* Shivering
* Clumsiness or lack of coordination
* Slurred speech or mumbling
* Stumbling
* Confusion or difficulty thinking
* Poor decision making, such as trying to remove warm clothes
* Drowsiness or very low energy
* Apathy, or lack of concern about one's condition
* Progressive loss of consciousness
* Weak pulse
* Shallow breathing
A person with hypothermia usually isn't aware of his or her condition, because the symptoms often begin gradually and because the confused thinking associated with hypothermia prevents self-awareness.

BostonB

Hypothermia isn't the question. The question is why did she want to stay in the house with no heating.

Capt'n Midnight

banquo wrote: »

or for a contribution to purchase an alternative form of heating.

I missed that bit earlier

Cheap Thrills!

BostonB wrote: »

Hypothermia isn't the question. The question is why did she want to stay in the house with no heating.

What makes you think she wanted to stay there?

BostonB

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

What makes you think she wanted to stay there?

Don't get hung up on a word. I'll rephrase it. The question is why did she stay in a place with no heating. To say she had no choice, or that she had choice is to make an assumption based on no information.

Its just so sad.

Cheap Thrills!

BostonB wrote: »

Don't get hung up on a word. I'll rephrase it. The question is why did she stay in a place with no heating. To say she had no choice, or that she had choice is to make an assumption based on no information.

Its just so sad.

Yes, we don't know if she had a choice.

But the sad thing is no way did she realise she would die by staying there.

Lots of people probably did the same in cold snaps and were ok. You wouldn't reasonably expect to die.

Poor girl

A Dub in Glasgo

My God, I have never seen such idiotic postings like some of those in this thread (and I post primarily on politics and soccer forums!!)

Gulliver

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

It doesn't say she didn't try to keep herself warm either.

Exactly - there's too much missing from this story to put all the blame in one place.

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

The decision that the council made lead to her death.

The decision to turn off the heating was reprehensible, a miserly exercise. However the council weren't the only ones who could have helped here - the HSE (see below), the mother, the brother and the friend (who had keys) they could also have prevented this tragedy.

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

Not sure what the following has to do with anything.

The victim, who had a borderline personality disorder, also suffered from back pain.

It was mentioned in the second article quoted earlier in the thread. Did you not read it?

Also, if you had read the rest of my post, I questioned why she had not received help from the HSE for example from a Mental Health Nurse.

dublin99

BostonB wrote: »

I don't think thats true. Can you back that up with anything?

Ditto, the heating was deliberately turned off, rather than broken?

The minimum physical standards for rental properties are outlined in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 and 2009. A landlord has to "provide heating appliances for every room lived in". A landlord has to respond to requests/ repairs if the rented within a reasonable time frame. If a Landlord is non responsive or is taking too long and the property is inhabitable, the tenant can get things fixed and get a reimbursement from the landlord. I recall when a neighbour caused a major water problem when she installed a jacuzzi and we had no water in the top floor apartment, the landlord immediately offered an alternative apartment for our use until it was fixed.

The Ballymun heating was turned off - it was ironically turned back on the day after Rachel's dead body was found.

Kennie1

The girl asked her parents to look after her kids, it would appear that she had the best interests for her kids at heart by providing the best she could for them by making sure they were warm and comfortable. If like me she probably did not want to take advantage of her parents and over crowding her peraents home, so dont we all put out kids before ourselfs but this time judgeing by the information that is available she paid the ultimatable price and if she or her parents of indeed the corperation new what was going to happen, things would have been different. The real question is how is this unfortunate incident going to change things for the needy, is this going to be another incident that gets a headline and is forgotten a week later by all. As said previously stated there are homeless people that sleep on streets every night of the week and it happens to them as well but the papers dont report as they dont make the headlines because nobody cares because they maybe drug addicts and alcholicies and so on, but dont forget that they are real people that have feelings of cold, fear, heartache, dispear, sadness, regret and so on.

Fitzerb

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

RIP.

Prison sentences for manslaughter should be handed down to those responsible.

Hate to tell you this but WE are responsibile.

How come we always look to blame someone and never ask how could I help.

Fitzerb

Is really says something for our society when the headlines are about an election and this story is small print. I know we dont have all the facts but you can see this uncaring attitude growing in our society. We are all to blame and we should all question our responses to others who are in trouble. That includes me as well

Dyr

Gulliver wrote: »

Also, if you had read the rest of my post, I questioned why she had not received help from the HSE for example from a Mental Health Nurse.

I knew a guy who pleaded with the HSE to take his son into care because he was such a threat to himself..they fobbed him off and fobbed him off. That night, the lad threw himself off the same flats that this woman died in. I went to school with the young fella, he was nicknamed smiley because back then he was a happy go lucky kid. Point being, if you're relying on the HSE to intervene, you're f***ed.

The other point being that you don't have a f***king clue what role this womens mental condition played in her death.

What you do know from that report is that she died, alone in her own home from hypothermia and her landlord did'nt think it was worth the effort to heat that home. If that is true then, in a moral world, the c**ksuckers who decided that deserve prison but that will never happen. Instead the corpo will settle out of court with a large wad of our tax money like they always do and continue on their merry way like they always do.

mickydoomsux

Fitzerb wrote: »

Hate to tell you this but WE are responsibile.

How come we always look to blame someone and never ask how could I help.

No. Just no.

We all already "helped" plenty when we payed tax to fund this womans social housing.

The fact that what we contributed may well have been managed poorly by the council or HSE or whoever is entirely another matter. This was an utterly preventable situation on so many levels and there are numerous people to "blame" as it were.

BostonB

dublin99 wrote: »

The minimum physical standards for rental properties are outlined in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2008 and 2009. A landlord has to "provide heating appliances for every room lived in". A landlord has to respond to requests/ repairs if the rented within a reasonable time frame. If a Landlord is non responsive or is taking too long and the property is inhabitable, the tenant can get things fixed and get a reimbursement from the landlord. I recall when a neighbour caused a major water problem when she installed a jacuzzi and we had no water in the top floor apartment, the landlord immediately offered an alternative apartment for our use until it was fixed......

A heating device could be a one bar electric fire. You said " entitled to alternative accomodation at the landlords expense". Where is that in that document, or about tenant able to get things fixed themselves. I just can't find either. I don't think that entitlement exists. I'm open to correction. That a landlord did it, doesn't mean they are obliged by law. I only ask, because it might mislead someone if you're not correct.

Fitzerb

mickydoomsux wrote: »

No. Just no.

We all already "helped" plenty when we payed tax to fund this womans social housing.

The fact that what we contributed may well have been managed poorly by the council or HSE or whoever is entirely another matter. This was an utterly preventable situation on so many levels and there are numerous people to "blame" as it were.

Do you really think a caring society is built by paying taxes.
So in that logic the person who pays the most tax is the most caring towards society.

Paying your taxes is a legal obligation. We are all responsible for the society we build. Taxes dont build a caring society they fund it.

mickydoomsux

Fitzerb wrote: »

Do you really think a caring society is built by paying taxes.
So in that logic the person who pays the most tax is the most caring towards society.

Paying your taxes is a legal obligation. We are all responsible for the society we build. Taxes dont build a caring society they fund it.

Caring doesn't stop people from dying of hypothermia unfortunenately.

What was needed here was better management of this womans prediciment and that means proper use of taxpayers money. She should have been housed in accomodation that was properly heated. If she had mental issues she should have had proper medical help. All these things cost money and the fact that they supposedly weren't provided makes me wonder about what in the hell was the full story here.

x in the city

this is tragic but something is very amisss

A normal woman of 30 would never die of cold as pointed out, sure it was cold, but people suck up this cold weather in much worse climates than Ireland (outside..) and dont die.

I suspect she was frail, malnurished, maybe a druggie.. who know, she may have had a weak immune system or something.

but to have the council turn off the heating is scandalous. fu|ktards.

30 years is very young for this to happen, so we need to know some more, having the guardai say the place was 'freezing', is not exactly gil grissom stuff.:rolleyes:

Nehaxak

I read the first post, clicked the last post and I don't really care to read the rest as I'm sure it's already descended into a pile of shít from the usual FG voting right wing element, but to set the record straight on a number of matters, having lived for a number of years myself in the flats in Ballymun.

1. You have no control over the heating, it is, or was, all provided during the winter months by a boiler house on the Ballymun road - of which you paid a nominal fee toward, on top of whatever rent you were paying.

2. Any flat suffered dreadfully if the heating was either turned off or had failed (which it did regularly) due to the lack of insulation (there isn't any) and draughty window frames of which every single one was at fault. Generally the flats when the heating was turned off, were like a walk in freezer. Again, you had no control over the heating, when it did actually work. Couple that with the extreme cold and try imagine how cold it was.

3. Use of portable electrical heaters were pointless, even large heaters were mostly pointless because a) they'd usually knock the trip switch off due to the failing electrical system in the flats which couldn't handle them most of the time, and/or the state of the electrical wiring which ended up burning out due to the load put on the wires from the drain on the heater. Portable gas bottle heaters are not allowed to be used by tenants by Dublin City Council. Besides all that, the wailing gale that blows through the flats coupled with the extreme cold when the heating was off meant you'd need at least 2 or 3 heaters in a room just to bring the temperature up to a comfortable level at all, if even that and if the electrics didn't trip out after the first few minutes of switching the first one on anyway.

4. The flats complex she lived in were and are rife with drugs, serious crime, gangs, and a shít load of strung out junkies - the vast majority of whom are not even from Ballymun at all but given the complete neglect of the area by DCC it's considered more or less an area where you can go and do wtf you want without interference. Some flats in her block are well known crack houses, yes crack houses.
For her to leave the flat unattended for a single night would certainly lead to it being not just burgled but destroyed and probably set on fire.
So you can excuse her having some consideration for the little she did own and wanting to hold on to it.

5. When other flat blocks on Sillogue road were being taken apart (First and second block now emptied, third block nearly there), Dublin City Council had to install temporary heating units outside the blocks, for each block, to ensure heating was supplied to residents still there. If they did not do this and because the first and second blocks were under the starting phase of demolition, the remaining blocks would've been without any heating at all due to being cut off from the boiler house.
DCC should have supplied the same to the other flat blocks, with people still in them, including where this woman lived, but they decided not to do this or supply any alternative. Feel free to phone the county managers office in DCC on Monday morning and request the minutes of the meetings where the decisions were taken on the matter and provide the results of the votes cast on same. All minutes and decisions on same are public record, though you may now have to request same under FOI as I'm sure they'll find some reason to protect their arses, especially with the election looming and the parties of the county councillors involved canvassing for votes in the area. Her writing to Noel Ahern for help was a waste of time but she didn't know that, he never gave a shít about anyone here apart from his developer buddies, some of the very same ones who are still involved in the regeneration, even after being through NAMA and whatever else.

6. You're not allowed rent allowance when in a council house/flat. The rent is or can be low enough anyway, depending on your income so rent allowance is not necessary - so you can stop with that bullshít when making whatever self serving inhuman points you're trying to make. You pay 9 euro for the heating a week, on top of whatever rent it is you're paying, even when the heating is off. Which is fine, great when it's working.

Apart from all of that, a young woman, a mother of two small kids, is dead.
Whatever your view points, at least have a bit of fúcking respect for the dead woman, her family and her two kids she's left behind now with no mother to care for them and keep your ignorant views in regards social welfare, single mothers or whatever other bullshít to yourself and for some other thread unrelated to a woman who is dead due to complete neglect by the state, DCC and the TD's/county councillors who couldn't be arsed even bothering to care.

Millicent

x in the city wrote: »

this is tragic but something is very amisss

A normal woman of 30 would never die of cold as pointed out, sure it was cold, but people suck up this cold weather in much worse climates than Ireland (outside..) and dont die.

I suspect she was frail, malnurished, maybe a druggie.. who know, she may have had a weak immune system or something.

There was nothing mentioned about any of that in the coroner's report and someone who knew the girl has been on to say that Rachel didn't drink, smoke or take drugs. A couple of people have also posted about how easy it was for them to get hypothermia and how they didn't even realise it so I think at this point it would be wise not to make guesses like the above. The family's had enough grief without people (not just you but others on the thread) insinuating the poor girl was a junkie.

Spudmonkey

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

You haven't a clue about her situation. Just assumptions. Will you be voting FF in the not so distant future? It's this type of thinking that lets things like this happen. Ignore the wreckless actions of those in a position of power and blame it on the dead woman.

No more than you have buddy yet you seem to be the one making assumptions. I'm reading it exactly as I'm seeing it from the report. And because I'm not making assumptions I'm not as noose hungry as some of the posters around. I'm actually much more open to hearing the full story before I start baying for blood.

Lose the tinfoil hat roll-eyes boy.

Spudmonkey

ejmaztec wrote: »

You must have choked on your cocoa when that happened.

If this is what you've resorted to I'm sure this is the end of this discussion.

RMD

Millicent wrote: »

There was nothing mentioned about any of that in the coroner's report and someone who knew the girl has been on to say that Rachel didn't drink, smoke or take drugs. A couple of people have also posted about how easy it was for them to get hypothermia and how they didn't even realise it so I think at this point it would be wise not to make guesses like the above. The family's had enough grief without people (not just you but others on the thread) insinuating the poor girl was a junkie.

I highly doubt she was a drug addict or anything of the kind mentioned but there is certainly something amiss here. A healthy 30 year old women doesn't die in her sleep due to hypothermia in shelter even if it is unheated. If that was the case we'd wake up to find the majority of Dublin's homeless who aren't staying in hostels dead tomorrow morning. There is certainly something amiss here.

Millicent

RMD wrote: »

I highly doubt she was a drug addict or anything of the kind mentioned but there is certainly something amiss here. A healthy 30 year old women doesn't die in her sleep due to hypothermia in shelter even if it is unheated. If that was the case we'd wake up to find the majority of Dublin's homeless who aren't staying in hostels dead tomorrow morning. There is certainly something amiss here.

A couple of people here have stated how easily they got hypothermia without realising it. She could have just been susceptible. I don't know enough about the condition to be entirely positive but since she'd been to the doctor to get a note to give to the council, I doubt she could have predicted that she would get it. If she was a slim girl, she'd be more prone to it, AFAIK.

discus

6. You're not allowed rent allowance when in a council house/flat. The rent is or can be low enough anyway, depending on your income so rent allowance is not necessary - so you can stop with that bullshít when making whatever self serving inhuman points you're trying to make. You pay 9 euro a week, even when the heating is off. Which is fine, great when it's working.

9 quid on rent? That'd leave a bit of cash to buy an electric heater.

Until the inquest is finished, I'll hold my breath.

Coriolanus

Stupid to stay in an apartment that she'd obviously decided wasn't fit for habitation by her children.
RIP and all, but this sounds like an easily preventable death, both by herself and by the council.

Einhard

Nehaxak wrote: »

I read the first post, clicked the last post and I don't really care to read the rest as I'm sure it's already descended into a pile of shít from the usual FG voting right wing element, but to set the record straight on a number of matters, having lived for a number of years myself in the flats in Ballymun.

1. You have no control over the heating, it is, or was, all provided during the winter months by a boiler house on the Ballymun road - of which you paid a nominal fee toward, on top of whatever rent you were paying.

2. Any flat suffered dreadfully if the heating was either turned off or had failed (which it did regularly) due to the lack of insulation (there isn't any) and draughty window frames of which every single one was at fault. Generally the flats when the heating was turned off, were like a walk in freezer. Again, you had no control over the heating, when it did actually work. Couple that with the extreme cold and try imagine how cold it was.

3. Use of portable electrical heaters were pointless, even large heaters were mostly pointless because a) they'd usually knock the trip switch off due to the failing electrical system in the flats which couldn't handle them most of the time, and/or the state of the electrical wiring which ended up burning out due to the load put on the wires from the drain on the heater. Portable gas bottle heaters are not allowed to be used by tenants by Dublin City Council. Besides all that, the wailing gale that blows through the flats coupled with the extreme cold when the heating was off meant you'd need at least 2 or 3 heaters in a room just to bring the temperature up to a comfortable level at all, if even that and if the electrics didn't trip out after the first few minutes of switching the first one on anyway.

4. The flats complex she lived in were and are rife with drugs, serious crime, gangs, and a shít load of strung out junkies - the vast majority of whom are not even from Ballymun at all but given the complete neglect of the area by DCC it's considered more or less an area where you can go and do wtf you want without interference. Some flats in her block are well known crack houses, yes crack houses.
For her to leave the flat unattended for a single night would certainly lead to it being not just burgled but destroyed and probably set on fire.
So you can excuse her having some consideration for the little she did own and wanting to hold on to it.

5. When other flat blocks on Sillogue road were being taken apart (First and second block now emptied, third block nearly there), Dublin City Council had to install temporary heating units outside the blocks, for each block, to ensure heating was supplied to residents still there. If they did not do this and because the first and second blocks were under the starting phase of demolition, the remaining blocks would've been without any heating at all due to being cut off from the boiler house.
DCC should have supplied the same to the other flat blocks, with people still in them, including where this woman lived, but they decided not to do this or supply any alternative. Feel free to phone the county managers office in DCC on Monday morning and request the minutes of the meetings where the decisions were taken on the matter and provide the results of the votes cast on same. All minutes and decisions on same are public record, though you may now have to request same under FOI as I'm sure they'll find some reason to protect their arses, especially with the election looming and the parties of the county councillors involved canvassing for votes in the area. Her writing to Noel Ahern for help was a waste of time but she didn't know that, he never gave a shít about anyone here apart from his developer buddies, some of the very same ones who are still involved in the regeneration, even after being through NAMA and whatever else.

6. You're not allowed rent allowance when in a council house/flat. The rent is or can be low enough anyway, depending on your income so rent allowance is not necessary - so you can stop with that bullshít when making whatever self serving inhuman points you're trying to make. You pay 9 euro a week, even when the heating is off. Which is fine, great when it's working.

Apart from all of that, a young woman, a mother of two small kids, is dead.
Whatever your view points, at least have a bit of fúcking respect for the dead woman, her family and her two kids she's left behind now with no mother to care for them and keep your ignorant views in regards social welfare, single mothers or whatever other bullshít to yourself and for some other thread unrelated to a woman who is dead due to complete neglect by the state, DCC and the TD's/county councillors who couldn't be arsed even bothering to care.

I wrote a post just now questioning the rush to condemn, and entirely place responsibility for this woman's death on, the Council. I looked at the article, and thought that there was probably more to all this than we are aware of. Having read your post though, I revised my initial opinion in light of your points, and deleted my post.

I have a problem though with the way you seek to characterise and negatively label anyone who has the temerity to offer a different viewpoint- they're the "right wing element", driven by ideological sentiment than by genuine concerns. It happens far too often here in AH, and in society in general, and it smacks of nothing more than seeking to close down debate, and censor varying opinions, by impugning the motivations of those who dare to hold them. Nothing is ever black and white, and people are entitled to hold differing opinions about matters without having them summarily dismissed as ideological posturing. It's a pity, because you made some excellent observations in your post.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

x in the city wrote: »

this is tragic but something is very amisss

A normal woman of 30 would never die of cold as pointed out, sure it was cold, but people suck up this cold weather in much worse climates than Ireland (outside..) and dont die.

I suspect she was frail, malnurished, maybe a druggie.. who know, she may have had a weak immune system or something.

but to have the council turn off the heating is scandalous. fu|ktards.

30 years is very young for this to happen, so we need to know some more, having the guardai say the place was 'freezing', is not exactly gil grissom stuff.:rolleyes:

This post is full of bullshít.

More and more assumptions... when will people ever learn?

Everybody knows 30 year olds are immune to cold/death etc etc. You know when your 30, you don't need to wear clothes no matter where you are on the planet. Such an awesome age. Seriously... :rolleyes:

Spudmonkey wrote: »

No more than you have buddy yet you seem to be the one making assumptions. I'm reading it exactly as I'm seeing it from the report. And because I'm not making assumptions I'm not as noose hungry as some of the posters around. I'm actually much more open to hearing the full story before I start baying for blood.

Lose the tinfoil hat roll-eyes boy.

Care to point out the assumptions I made?


The council contributed to this womans death, it's that simple. Don't try to over complicate things. It's really simple if people could just take their blinkers off and actually take a look at the case.

One can only judge with what's before him/her.

Mike 1972

If the subject of this thread had been a dead celebrity it would have been locked ages ago.

ebixa82 wrote: »

People talking about manslaughter is just ill informed, sensationalistic bullsh.it!

Whereas those posts speculating on the basis of no information whatsoever
that the victim was an alco/junkie/scumbag*/suicidal/not paying bills/otherwise "blameworthy" are.........:rolleyes:

* On that score a lot of people here seriously need to take a long fucking look in the mirror :mad:

panda100

I didn't know that so many of AH posters were patholigists?! How else can they contradict and challenge the findings of experienced, trained professionals whom have already concluded she died of hypothermia.

Spudmonkey

Jasiah Rapid Trauma wrote: »

Care to point out the assumptions I made?


The council contributed to this womans death, it's that simple. Don't try to over complicate things. It's really simple if people could just take their blinkers off and actually take a look at the case.

One can only judge with what's before him/her.

Because you have read a story and made up your mind that (a) is guilty and (b) is innocent even though I have seen nothing to suggest that from the same article. I think had the woman been ill-informed and her heating turned off without her knowing then yes there is a case for negligence. There are no assumptions in that theory.

It just means I'd defer my pitch-fork sharpening until I know more details on the case but as I can this mob are already on the march I think I'll sit this one out.

steddyeddy

RMD wrote: »

I highly doubt she was a drug addict or anything of the kind mentioned but there is certainly something amiss here. A healthy 30 year old women doesn't die in her sleep due to hypothermia in shelter even if it is unheated. If that was the case we'd wake up to find the majority of Dublin's homeless who aren't staying in hostels dead tomorrow morning. There is certainly something amiss here.

Em yes there is, the council turned off a womans heating causing her to die of hypothermia. I dont care wheter she was a drug addict, had a heart problem or was a heavy drinker. The council turned off her heating.

decent ppl

who the hell do u think u r????? dublin corpo r at fault here not her! u didnt no her i did. this is 2 every idiot that has put up a stupid comment about rach, get a f***ing grip an go **** stir else wer... R.I.P hun u always have a friend in me hun x

Annasopra

Nevore wrote: »

Stupid to stay in an apartment that she'd obviously decided wasn't fit for habitation by her children.
RIP and all, but this sounds like an easily preventable death, both by herself and by the council.

did you expect her to go sleep on the streets?

CiaranC

Scumbag is a term bandied about AH all the time. This thread is awash with scumbags, and probably not a tracksuit between them.

ejmaztec

Spudmonkey wrote: »

If this is what you've resorted to I'm sure this is the end of this discussion.

No, that was just an interim piece of sarcasm which I was compelled to bring in.

albeit

I do not know the circumstances in this case, but I do know that drunkenness can make you fall asleep in a very cold place, where you wouldnt otherwise be able to fall asleep because of the cold.