Eddie Hobbs goes over the edge

Riskymove

black francis wrote: »

And for me it's not really about the fact that it's almost exclusively private sector pensions being raided (remember to add that line in I mentioned earlier)

No I would agree with that statement, it is mostly private sector workers affected

btw
in cases where PS have a fund its more likely to be people who will fall well short of full service and therefore will have a reduced occupational pension

the examples I know of are women who returned to the workplace after raising children or people who moved in form private sector late on

as tax law only allows pensions to a certain level, its unlikely anyone intending to recieve full service would invest money in one, especially with reducing tax relief etc.

beeftotheheels

black francis wrote: »

It's the principle of raiding peoples savings - and no matter how the government dress this up, it's what it amounts to.

And that is a fair point and one which will always arise when a new type of tax is introduced, it will depart from our previous expectations of what was to be taxed and we will struggle with it.

Ideologically a wealth tax on pensions (which are good) is completely different to a raise in the rates of tax, or a change to the tax base, or an increase in indirect tax on fags (which are bad).

But being different does not necessarily mean that it is wrong. In this case the levying of a tax on our future pensions gets weighed up against the possibility of stimulating the economy now.

I think we're going to see a lot more "new" taxes as the government tries to grapple with the deficit and shrinking economy.

The perceived wisdom that bold things like smoking should be taxed, while good things like pensions should not be taxed will be suspended for a while (I'm not advocating cutting the tax on fags, I'm suggesting that economic concerns will outweigh any other concerns for a while).

Once we get out of this mess then I would be completely in favor of getting rid of the levy and encouraging pension investment by individuals. It is an abhorrent tax in the normal scheme of things, just we are no where near normal at the moment.

invinciblePRSTV

black francis wrote: »

There's no doubt that a line has been crossed with this raid on peoples pensions.

Yes the ending of over generous tax reliefs endowed during bubble times really is crossing the line, shur it is....., what next, you going to complain because section 23 tax reliefs were abolished in the December budget?

black francis wrote: »

Idiotic posters on this thread like invinciblePRSTV and his ilk can waffle all they like about it being a claw-back of tax relief but the same argument could be used to raid peoples savings accounts - "sure we should have been taxing you at 45% instead of 41% so we're taking some of the money back".

I'm dealing in the facts here, me feiners like yourself can put your fingers in your ears and your hands over your eyes and pretend we're not in a fiscal crisis and that generous tax reliefs aren't subsidies. People like me who don't hold a biased viewpoint will point to this as one og many over generous provisions made during the bubble years.

black francis wrote: »

I understand that the government need to raise money from imaginative sources to fund this "jobs initiative" and as a tax-payer I'm will to contribute what's fair - but this completely undermines trust in the government and in a worst case will lead to a flight of capital from the country if people think their savings are fair game.

I have no doubt what you consider "fair" is other people sharing the pain instead of your pension pot.

Frank Black

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

I have no doubt what you consider "fair" is other people sharing the pain instead of your pension pot.

And I have no doubt you're a troll trying for a reaction.

Frank Black

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yes the ending of over generous tax reliefs endowed during bubble times really is crossing the line, shur it is....., what next, you going to complain because section 23 tax reliefs were abolished in the December budget?

By the way - you do know the difference between the ending of a tax relief and a raid on a pensions fund don't you?

probably not.

invinciblePRSTV

black francis wrote: »

And I have no doubt you're a troll trying for a reaction.

You're the one throwing the insults around. So answer me this, what funds the jobs initiative instead of this levy on pensions plans?

black francis wrote: »

By the way - you do know the difference between the ending of a tax relief and a raid on a pensions fund don't you?

probably not.

Lol, this coming from the guy who maintains that tax reliefs aren't a public subsidy. Here have a little read of this document, particularly under the taxation headings.

http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Budget%202011%20Leaflet.pdf

No mention of a "raid on pensions fund' just the ending of over generous tax reliefs. The Celtic tiger is over, severe austerity is here, you're just going to have to deal with it.

sceptre

black francis and invinciblePRSTV both get a forum holiday of seven days for repeatedly personalising the discussion and trading insults. None of the rest of us have time or patience for such behaviour. The forum charter is pretty clear.

/mod

themandan6611

waster81 wrote: »

The pension industry could easily cut their fees and there would be no impact at all

or they could cut jobs instead :rolleyes:

doomed

Ireland still has a lot of wealth and much of this was accumulated by people benefiting from exactly the same policies that got us into trouble or sits in pension pots that were subsidised by the State. Is it really fair that all of that money is untouchable?

What part of sharing the pain do we not get?

eric hoone

doomed wrote: »

Ireland still has a lot of wealth and much of this was accumulated by people benefiting from exactly the same policies that got us into trouble or sits in pension pots that were subsidised by the State. Is it really fair that all of that money is untouchable?

What part of sharing the pain do we not get?

Fair point. Though what worries me is the inherent conflict of interests of allowing a group of fifty-something senior civil servants and their political cronies draft our fiscal policies. The same group of civil servants and who were allowed to offer their performance related bonuses as their pay cut. Who will soon walk away, like their ministers, from so called public service with 6 figure tax free lump sums and half their finishing salaries guaranteed. More like self service for these suits. Shame on them

Dannyboy83

Sorry, I've not had a chance to read the thread in full, so apologies if I'm repeating here, but David McWilliams warned about this 2 months ago:
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/03/09/keep-an-eye-on-your-savings-you-can-be-sure-the-state-is

With the news today of upwards of 80 credit unions in trouble, it probably won't be long before we start seeing pawn shops opening up again!!