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Eircom "three strikes" system investigated by Data Protection Commissioner

  • 19-06-2011 11:07am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭


    http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number9.12/irish-dpa-investigates-three-strikes

    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2011/06/300-false-accusations-data-protection.html

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72849388#post72849388

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056300017
    The Irish Data Protection Commissioner is investigating the Eircom / music
    industry three strikes system, a report in the Sunday Times has revealed.
    According to the story by Mark Tighe, predictions that Eircom would end up
    falsely accusing innocent users have now proved correct, with over 300 users
    wrongfully being sent a "first strike" letter accusing them of sharing
    music.

    Eircom have admitted to the mistakes, stating that "this was due to a software failure caused when the clocks went back last October".

    Hi Eircom.

    I was wondering what the official response is to this? You have taken it upon yourselves to be a quasi-legal police force and patrol our network connections and monitor our downloads. In this case, turns out you have falsely accused hundreds of your own customers of being criminals. If the Gards made claims on paper accusing hundreds of innocent people of being criminals, what would be the outcome there?

    I am wondering as an Eircom customer should I be worried that you are allowing foreign nationals/private foreign multi-national corporations and other third parties to monitor/police us or the fact that your companies technical abilities are so inept, by your own admission, that as an innocent customer I may at some point be falsely accused by your company of being a criminal and being actively involved in criminal activity when there is no evidence of this.

    It also bothers me that this story made headlines in the UK, USA, New Zealand, and Australia yet never even made the papers here in Ireland. It's like it was intentionally omitted from the one place it was most relevant, a feat which I don't think is coincidental. Your customers have the right to know when events like this transpire. Hiding them makes the ordeal seem even more criminal.

    I await your reply.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 309 ✭✭OMG Its EoinD


    CptSternn wrote: »
    http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number9.12/irish-dpa-investigates-three-strikes

    http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2011/06/300-false-accusations-data-protection.html

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72849388#post72849388

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056300017



    Hi Eircom.

    I was wondering what the official response is to this? You have taken it upon yourselves to be a quasi-legal police force and patrol our network connections and monitor our downloads. In this case, turns out you have falsely accused hundreds of your own customers of being criminals. If the Gards made claims on paper accusing hundreds of innocent people of being criminals, what would be the outcome there?

    I am wondering as an Eircom customer should I be worried that you are allowing foreign nationals/private foreign multi-national corporations and other third parties to monitor/police us or the fact that your companies technical abilities are so inept, by your own admission, that as an innocent customer I may at some point be falsely accused by your company of being a criminal and being actively involved in criminal activity when there is no evidence of this.

    It also bothers me that this story made headlines in the UK, USA, New Zealand, and Australia yet never even made the papers here in Ireland. It's like it was intentionally omitted from the one place it was most relevant, a feat which I don't think is coincidental. Your customers have the right to know when events like this transpire. Hiding them makes the ordeal seem even more criminal.

    I await your reply.


    Just so you know , I wouldn't expect toooooo much of a detailed reply here , as these guys seem more like tech and customer support and would not be able to speak on the behalf of Eircom unless specifically told to.

    Or maybe I'm wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,962 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Im_EoinD wrote: »
    Just so you know , I wouldn't expect toooooo much of a detailed reply here , as these guys seem more like tech and customer support and would not be able to speak on the behalf of Eircom unless specifically told to.

    Or maybe I'm wrong.

    and who would you ring if you got one of these letters in the door but never used torrents etc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭java


    CptSternn wrote: »
    You have taken it upon yourselves to be a quasi-legal police force and patrol our network connections and monitor our downloads.

    eircom don't do the monitoring. Suggest you have a look at the faqs:
    http://www.eircom.net/notification/legalmusic/faqs

    Particularly point 18


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭gerryk


    You mean this?
    The music industry will monitor illegal downloads in the same way it already does. It will then pass that information (in the form of IP addresses) to eircom. Their process for data collection has been reviewed and approved by the Office of Data Protection Commission (ODPC).

    Seems to say very little.
    There is little or no way to tie, without reasonable doubt, an IP address to a person, or a download to intent to pirate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭thefinalstage


    This is an interesting perdicament that eircom find themselves in now. I am watching with baited breath for the outcome and official response.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    and who would you ring if you got one of these letters in the door but never used torrents etc?

    An ISP with a reasonable policy on such issues, i.e. any of eircom's competitors.
    There are plenty of other options out there!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 Carcis


    Hello, I'm an eircom customer!

    Unfortunately, there are still many places around the country in which eircom remains the only option.

    Like across the street from Galway City Coucil, located 2 mins walk from Eyre Square, Galway city centre!

    I am literally forced to use this inferior service providor, apparently due to poor city planning.

    I often wonder how many eircom customers remain eircom customers out of such circumstances. What a pathetic business model that would be, yet entirely believable from the way I hear people being treated.

    * Carcis has just realised that he has in fact been saving to migrate to a country, not to find work, but to find and live in a country with clean, safe drinking water, and highly-available, low-cost, high-speed internet access *


    Mother Ireland, you've been good to me. But now that I've grown up I see your just an alcoholic lickarse.

    (Is some kind of Eircom Customers Anonymous in which I can share my personal stories of shame and frustration with other recovering eircom customers?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,019 ✭✭✭kirving


    There's a awful lot of mis-information being thrown around.

    eircom don't monitor your downloads(or uploads) and couldn't care less what you download.

    Anti-piracy companies monitor torrents and record the IP addresses of people who are downloading lots. They then sort these and tell eircom that they found one of their IP addresses downloading.

    eircom then send you a letter telling you to stop. No information gets passed the other way, i.e: to the record companies.

    eircom, I believe, couldn't afford to fight the IMRA in court, so had to settle for this as a compromise. UPC are a giant european company, and pretty much told the IRMA to take a jump. IRMA wouln't dare take them to court, and UPC have also vowed to fight all the way to prevent this shite.

    It's totally unfair on eircom, so I think the competition autohrity should step in as it's not a fair market if one company's customers are being alienated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 Carcis


    Though that is how it is now, eircom did not have to bend the knee.

    The following is a solicitors letter from IRMA threatening Blacknight. The IRMA mistook the webhosting company for an internet service provider, and in ensuing frustration Michele posted it on their blog along with their reply, to help clear up all bits and peices of quotes and general confusion.ed


    The scan of the letter is attached. Sorry it's in pdf.
    Here is the original file:
    http://blog.blacknight.com/images/irmaletter.pdf
    here is the original blacknight article:
    http://blog.blacknight.com/irma-threatens-irish-isps.html

    Blacknights response is pretty damn badass.

    Personally I felt like shouting this when I read it:
    "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Carcis wrote: »
    Hello, I'm an eircom customer!

    Unfortunately, there are still many places around the country in which eircom remains the only option.

    Like across the street from Galway City Coucil, located 2 mins walk from Eyre Square, Galway city centre!

    I am literally forced to use this inferior service providor, apparently due to poor city planning.

    I often wonder how many eircom customers remain eircom customers out of such circumstances. What a pathetic business model that would be, yet entirely believable from the way I hear people being treated.

    * Carcis has just realised that he has in fact been saving to migrate to a country, not to find work, but to find and live in a country with clean, safe drinking water, and highly-available, low-cost, high-speed internet access *


    Mother Ireland, you've been good to me. But now that I've grown up I see your just an alcoholic lickarse.

    (Is some kind of Eircom Customers Anonymous in which I can share my personal stories of shame and frustration with other recovering eircom customers?)


    I fully agree with you on the planning issue, but you do have a few options available!

    You can use *any* one of a large number of other operators who use eircom's access equipment. Bitstream providers do not just resell eircom's DSL internet product entirely. They just use eircom's exchange / local DSL infrastructure to access your home.

    This policy only applies to people using eircom's retail DSL service. Not to people who are using other DSL providers.

    The other companies use eircom's DSLAMs and voice exchanges, but the data is routed back onto their networks at various nodes all over the country and does not ultimately go over eircom's network.

    So, you're not stuck with one provider, although your line rental's ultimately still paid to eircom unless you completely ditch your landline and go with cable or a wireless product.

    Even the smallest telephone exchange in the country has access to a wide range of wholesale/bitstream providers for voice and DSL.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 Carcis


    You've got me there.
    I remember being wooed by the high speed bundle that was offered, but only when I recieved my first bill did I Sherlock Holmes that the prices quoted in the advertising were before VAT. "All nice and roped in?" the bill seemed to inquire "it chaffs some but you get used to it" it seemed to insist. VAT of €75 is quite the difference to the likes of me, but buying out a contract is not an option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Carcis wrote: »
    You've got me there.
    I remember being wooed by the high speed bundle that was offered, but only when I recieved my first bill did I Sherlock Holmes that the prices quoted in the advertising were before VAT. "All nice and roped in?" the bill seemed to inquire "it chaffs some but you get used to it" it seemed to insist. VAT of €75 is quite the difference to the likes of me, but buying out a contract is not an option.

    Consumer products have to be advertised WITH VAT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Flashgordon197


    If you get one letter does that mean they have effectively monitoring you for now on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    If you get one letter does that mean they have effectively monitoring you for now on?

    Hi Flashgordon
    Receiving one letter does not really affect situation. Basically if music is detected as having been illegally uploaded or downloaded eircom will be made aware of this and will then advise customer. This link offers a full explanation of the process and ratinal behind this action.
    Hope this answers your query, if not or you have another question let us know.
    Tony


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Dermo


    Hi Flashgordon
    Receiving one letter does not really affect situation. Basically if music is detected as having been illegally uploaded or downloaded eircom will be made aware of this and will then advise customer. This link offers a full explanation of the process and ratinal behind this action.
    Hope this answers your query, if not or you have another question let us know.
    Tony

    Tony, am I correct in thinking that eircom do absolutely no checks to verify that traffic was moving through common file sharing ports on the IP addresses provided by IRMA via Dtecnet and that there is no appeals process in place for cases where old but still used eircom routers have been broken into thanks to obvious flaws in the WEP key creation? Or when someone is spoofing an IP address?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    Dermo wrote: »
    Tony, am I correct in thinking that eircom do absolutely no checks to verify that traffic was moving through common file sharing ports on the IP addresses provided by IRMA via Dtecnet and that there is no appeals process in place for cases where old but still used eircom routers have been broken into thanks to obvious flaws in the WEP key creation? Or when someone is spoofing an IP address?

    I honestly don't know the answer to this Dermo but will see what I can dig up. Any customer who has been advised that they are in violation of illegal file sharing can appeal and we can and have looked into these cases.
    Wil be back to you with a response to your query as soon as I can.
    Tony


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Flashgordon197


    I got to be honest with you-will now be switching to UPC as soon as they hit my area . I dont like the BIG Brother mentality. Also When I recently rang UPC-they had the exact misspelled address that eircom had. Which means my data is being shared! They claimed they didnt get it from Eircom.Ya right!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭eircom: Tony


    I got to be honest with you-will now be switching to UPC as soon as they hit my area . I dont like the BIG Brother mentality. Also When I recently rang UPC-they had the exact misspelled address that eircom had. Which means my data is being shared! They claimed they didnt get it from Eircom.Ya right!

    Hi flashgordan
    obviously sorry to lose your custom but I understand your position on this issue. Cannot explain the email address, unusual for for rival ISP's to exchange information unless transferring accounts?
    Tony


  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Flashgordon197


    Hi flashgordan
    obviously sorry to lose your custom but I understand your position on this issue. Cannot explain the email address, unusual for for rival ISP's to exchange information unless transferring accounts?
    Tony


    I did not switch provider but UPC claimed they did not get it from you. Not my e mail address-my home address misspelt exactly like you do it. No coincidence. They gave a company name who gave it to them. I cant recall the name. Look on one level illegal downloading is wrong but music has been passed on freely for hundreds of years and will continue to be so. You basically looked at my private data. Find another way of policing the internet. You Cant even guarantee my address is not being freely sold! Think I might lodge complaint against Eircom To data commissioner. Interesting to see outcome of their complaint about three strikes nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Lister1


    I would suspect they had acess to the address via geodirectory...

    http://www.geodirectory.ie/About-GeoDirectory.aspx


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    I dont like the BIG Brother mentality.

    Then you'd better get off the Internet all together. Switching to another ISP, like UPC, will not stop the monitoring of your music downloading (if that's what you're doing). It is the music industry that are monitoring the illegal sharing of music through various online services, not ISPs, and not eircom.

    Changing ISP will not stop that, and you will still be monitored. The only difference is that not all ISPs are cooperating with the music industry.


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