Denver Broncos Thread

spiralism

he threw pretty well tonight in the time he was given, for what its worth, 6/7 for 91 yards. orton with 2/6 for 37

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

he threw pretty well tonight in the time he was given, for what its worth, 6/7 for 91 yards. orton with 2/6 for 37

Pre-season though means nothing. Watching the Pats tonight and Hoyer and Mallett had all day in the pocket to launch footballs.

And if you look at the throws the majority bar one of them was a long pass. The Backs and WR spruced up the amount of yards. Again it goes back to his long wind up he ends up throwing short passes.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Pre-season though means nothing. Watching the Pats tonight and Hoyer and Mallett had all day in the pocket to launch footballs.

aye, though it proved that tebow isnt that bad in an actual game situation after getting criticised for not performing well in practice... it is only preseason though, sure brady quinn has looked good too

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

aye, though it proved that tebow isnt that bad in an actual game situation after getting criticised for not performing well in practice... it is only preseason though, sure brady quinn has looked good too

Again dude these are true reflection of game situations. Pre-season is nothing more than an advanced practice scrimmage. Game 3 of the Pre-season is when you start to see some sort of competition as starters are getting ready.

But as Llyod and myself and others have said Tebow cant pass the football. Short passes will only get you so far. And that article I posted earlier shows that the Broncos probably wont give him the time to fix his issues.

Remember who drafted Tebow as his project.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Again dude these are true reflection of game situations. Pre-season is nothing more than an advanced practice scrimmage. Game 3 of the Pre-season is when you start to see some sort of competition as starters are getting ready.

But as Llyod and myself and others have said Tebow cant pass the football. Short passes will only get you so far. And that article I posted earlier shows that the Broncos probably wont give him the time to fix his issues.

Remember who drafted Tebow as his project.

he's already proved he can pass and go deep at that, even if it was against a crappy houston defence

Michael lombardi's opinion is a lot different to what Elway and Fox might actually do as well

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

aye, though it proved that tebow isnt that bad in an actual game situation after getting criticised for not performing well in practice... it is only preseason though, sure brady quinn has looked good too

No it doesn't, some of his completed throws looked pretty poor. The incompleted one was flat out horrendous.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

HE. CANNOT. THROW.

HE CAN THROW. Remember he only started 3 games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb1zHpeBeZM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As for the rest, remember this dude? How about this guy, he was huge for the position. This beast could get it done with his feet before a horrific injury, and this guy ran for nearly 3k yards in essentially five seasons.

I can show you about 50 guys that you would be certain would make it in the NFL that didn't. Tebow has these intangibles that just make him so much better than all these other guys. Its going to be hard for Tebow under John Fox though, his playbook has never been QB friendly, either that or he is just the unluckiest coach in football because every QB has struggled more often than not in his system.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Vick will start for a genuine contender this year backed up by Vince Young. Seriously man, this idea that 'the next great running QB will revolutionize the position' is dead wrong. The NFL has had numerous run happy QBs, it is aware of them, and they can succeed. But all of the above names (apart from Stewart I guess) could all THROW THE ****ING FOOTBALL. They could exist with 3 step drops, run pro sets efficiently, etc.

Who is saying that? I'm certainly not saying it. There are exceptions to every rule. Look at Favre, he should never have made it or lasted so long given all the problems he had and with his gunslinger attitude where he would risk an interception to get the big score. Look at Brees, only 6' tall but he is one of the best in the league. For me Tebow's biggest strengths are his desire to win, to improve himself everyday, the way he inspires others. He can throw the ball, he is not the best there will ever be at it, he is not the worst either but his attitude has brought him a long way to this point and it will bring him a lot further. McDaniels knows more about QBs than most in the NFL, he improved Orton in his first year in Denver, Brady had a ridiculous season throwing 50 tds under him, Matty Cassel had an excellent season under him too. This man took Tebow in the first round of the draft, for me that means an awful lot. There were rumours that Belichick was going after him too and he has praised him many times.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The NFL will never deny players that are good enough their shot. It is a true meritocracy in that respect - everyone wants to win and they'll play whoever they think can help them to achieve that end (and gamble with loads of players who 'might' in the process). But Tebow just doesn't have the skills.

Again you keep pumping out the same line that Tebow doesn't have the skills. He is a winner thats the most important thing. Look at Joe Flacco, full of the right throws proper mechanics and all that but the guy just can't get it done when it matters most.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Of course, when players like Tebow fail there will be no shortage of college fanboys there who just don't wish to understand why.

What are we to take from this?

Is it a my name is LuckyLloyd and I am an expert on Quarterbacks and anybody who thinks Tebow will make it is dumb? Seriously is that the line you are taking here?

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

HE CAN THROW. Remember he only started 3 games.

Well of course taking someone's point literally about throwing is easy to disprove. Personally when I talk about his throwing its inaccurate and requires long wind ups. Notice in your video that every pass he makes he has ample time in the pocket. Notice every time he gets rushed he runs. As for that first pass in the Vid ALL the WR work.

Anyone can dump a long ball into the corner of the endzone into double coverage and hope someone pulls it in. In fact I remember last year after that game it was broken down in highlights and many said it was a hit and hope. WR did all the work getting that ball in.

Tebow still needs a lot of work and Denver it seems are not willing to give it to him. His footwork sucks and his throwing motion and passes are average. He needs far too much work and for him to make it in the NFL someone is going to have to work with him as a team and give him time. And personally I dont see anyone doing it if Denver offload him the end of the season.

The issue of Tebow is like the Manning Brady arguments going to come down to agree to disagree.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

McDaniels knows more about QBs than most in the NFL, he improved Orton in his first year in Denver, Brady had a ridiculous season throwing 50 tds under him, Matty Cassel had an excellent season under him too. This man took Tebow in the first round of the draft, for me that means an awful lot. There were rumours that Belichick was going after him too and he has praised him many times.

Just read this again. You hit the nail on the head here when we talk about Tebow needs work. McDaniels SAW potential in Tebow to be a pro. McDaniels knew he wasn't ready right away but believed he could work with him. The problem here is McDaniels no longer controls his project.

The NFL is a business and finding a team with patience and time to develop Tebow could be hard work unless the Rams pick him up and re-unite him with McDaniels.

As for Belichick Tebow would have sat on our bench as 3rd string had we taken him and you wouldn't have seen him take a snap in 2 years with Brady still there. That and the fact Hoyer is most likely going to be Bradys back up until someone else like Mallet moves him from the Depth. Oh and it was just a rumour.

Black Swan

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Pre-season though means nothing.

Indeed.

Chucky the tree

Being a winner is the most important trait to being an nfl quarterback. :pac: There are loads of 2nd/3rd string QB players who have/do work just as hard as Tebow to improve and get better, problem is they don't have the natual talent and skills required and that's Tebow's problem. I mean if in your 2nd year as an NFL quarterback and all you can do is the play-action then you're in big trouble.

Rented Mule

Orton is not the flashiest QB in the NFL. He is an outstanding game manager and a proven NFL QB who won't hurt you in game situations.

The only situation that I can see Tebow performing well in would be goal line situations. He is more athletically gifted than Orton in this situation.

The idea that you have play Tebow because he was a 1st round pick is laughable. McDaniels completely reached with this pick to take a player who would have been available several rounds late You don't waste a pick like this on a 'project', and that's exactly what you have in Tebow.

Denver has a completely new regime this season. A regime that was obviously not too fond of what McDaniels did in his short tenure. John Elway is reported to have not been to fond of the Tebow pick. If Tebow is going to be a full time starting QB in the NFL, it will most likely be in his next contract with another team.

tallaghtoutlaws

Steve_O posted this up in the pre-season thread and I missed this in the highlights. But this sums up Tebow right now and why he has work to do. This is one of the things Andy Reid stressed with Vick not to do. Don't depend on your feet.

But in this instance Tebow clearly wasn't thinking and if you do stuff like this in the regular season you will find yourself warming a bench.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Stev_o wrote: »

Got to laugh at this play from Denver vs Cowboys.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/09000d5d8216516a/Tebow-Turnaround

The penalties sum that play up. The problem with a QB that chooses to use his feet. Make sure you don't cross the line of scrimmage when throwing. Also make sure your linemen haven't gone too far downfield as the minute you run they will look to block for you. If you throw that ball and they have gone beyond 5 yards penalty on you. Oh and you might get some blocks in the back.

See this right here is what coaches dont like in Athletic QBs.

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Is it a my name is LuckyLloyd and I am an expert on Quarterbacks and anybody who thinks Tebow will make it is dumb? Seriously is that the line you are taking here?

Tebow will make it as a football player, not as a starting QB. And yes, people who don't get that are dumb.

boccy23

Saw Orton play when I was in Indiana for Purdue and have followed him all through his college and pro career so I think Denver is mad to even look at Tebow. Orton is a very good Pro QB and could be even better if given a chance.

But I have to say, it is fun to watch Tebow play. He goes down Hard!! You're just waiting for when he is going to get opened up.

spiralism

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Tebow will make it as a football player, not as a starting QB. And yes, people who don't get that are dumb.

is this the Fullback/Tight End thing again? If Tebow doesnt make it as a QB, he wont make it full stop probably. And to say that he certainly wont make it as a starting QB is ludicrous. Maybe he won't sure, but theres more evidence right now that he will make it than not

I'll say this, if you could combine Orton's passing skills with Tebow's Intangibles, you'd have some player

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

is this the Fullback/Tight End thing again? If Tebow doesnt make it as a QB, he wont make it full stop probably. And to say that he certainly wont make it as a starting QB is ludicrous. Maybe he won't sure, but theres more evidence right now that he will make it than not

I'll say this, if you could combine Orton's passing skills with Tebow's Intangibles, you'd have some player

He's a second year QB who still can't do a 3 step drop. Can't seem to sit in the pocket and go through his reads at all either. Apart from the play action fake and then going long down the field there really isn't much he can do as a QB.

spiralism

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's a second year QB who still can't do a 3 step drop. Can't seem to sit in the pocket and go through his reads at all either. Apart from the play action fake and then going long down the field there really isn't much he can do as a QB.

despite this, he looked good in his 3 starts, kept us competitive against two teams that had badly blown us out earlier in the season and won us a match against houston on his own. If we'd had orton in through to the end of the season we'd have taken 3 hammerings and ended up 3-13

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

If we'd had orton in through to the end of the season we'd have taken 3 hammerings and ended up 3-13

This made me laugh out loud. So its all Orton's fault for your bad record? For fooks sake I have heard it all now. As for Denver winning those games you are mad if you think it was just Tebow that won them. The Broncos had nothing to play for than pride at that point.

Orton would have opened up on the Texans also. Their secondary was the worst in the NFL as for the other 2 games they could have gone either way. Sure Tebow might have sparked the players up for 3 games but lets face it the season was over and the coaching staff should have done that at the start of the season. But for his football skills were average at best and you could see his flaws.

Got to love it the blaming Orton for the loses though. Broncos fans quickly turning into Eagles fans looking for a scapegoat.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

This made me laugh out loud. So its all Orton's fault for your bad record? For fooks sake I have heard it all now. As for Denver winning those games you are mad if you think it was just Tebow that won them. The Broncos had nothing to play for than pride at that point.

Orton would have opened up on the Texans also. Their secondary was the worst in the NFL as for the other 2 games they could have gone either way. Sure Tebow might have sparked the players up for 3 games but lets face it the season was over and the coaching staff should have done that at the start of the season. But for his football skills were average at best and you could see his flaws.

Got to love it the blaming Orton for the loses though. Broncos fans quickly turning into Eagles fans looking for a scapegoat.

no, but Orton was playing some awful stuff by that stage in the season, he would definitely have got us blown out against Oakland and SD (he had in the two reverse fixtures) and wouldnt have been able to muster a comeback against Houston. He'd probably have put up pretty numbers and lost in all 3 games, it was the story of the season for him.

I'm not blaming Orton for any of those losses, don't be ridiculous. Having the #32 Defence in the NFL contributed to nearly all of those losses (cept @ Kansas i suppose and maybe Arizona, he was unnaturally bad in those games) far more than Orton did

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

no, but Orton was playing some awful stuff by that stage in the season, he would definitely have got us blown out against Oakland and SD (he had in the two reverse fixtures) and wouldnt have been able to muster a comeback against Houston. He'd probably have put up pretty numbers and lost in all 3 games, it was the story of the season for him.

How on earth can you say he would have definitely lost them? I wouldn't have even said he would have won them. Without him actually playing the games you are doing nothing more than speculating.

He had two bad games all season long and they were the Chiefs and Cardinals and were the 2 games before he got dropped. Even with those two bad games and only 13 games played he was still hovering around the Top 10 on average in stats out of all the QBs in the NFL

I'm not blaming Orton for any of those losses, don't be ridiculous. Having the #32 Defence in the NFL contributed to nearly all of those losses (cept @ Kansas i suppose and maybe Arizona, he was unnaturally bad in those games) far more than Orton did

You have a funny way of showing it. No offense dude but your posts imply it for the most part and then at the end you say "Oh im not blaming Orton". Denver were sh1te last year and even Tom Brady would have suffered in that offense. Orton is a better QB than Tebow and John Fox and Elway even see that now. Tebow needs work and Orton doesn't and Orton if given the right ingredients can do a solid job for the Broncos. But like the Eagles the fans will throw Orton under the bus in every opportunity when games don't go their way.

Syferus

Agreed, which is why Denver have boxed themselves into a hole now if they plan on keeping both of them. Either commit to Tebow being the QB of the future and gear the organisation towards accelerating his development or just trade him to someone and be done with it, his trade value isn't going to increase from being a bench warmer for a couple more years.

smackbunnybaby

According to ESPN Tebow has dropped to 3rd, behind Brady Quinn.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/8/20/2374878/tim-tebow-brady-quinn-denver-broncos-depth-chart-position-battles

eagle eye

He really needs to get out of Denver right now. Pick up the phone BB, give them a 5th rounder for him!;)

spiralism

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

According to ESPN Tebow has dropped to 3rd, behind Brady Quinn.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/8/20/2374878/tim-tebow-brady-quinn-denver-broncos-depth-chart-position-battles

Denver press has Quinn as looking very very good so far in training camp, he impressed in Dallas too.

Dunno what to make of this Tebow craic but people need to calm down with talk of shipping him already, he is not the first QB to spend his second year sitting behind a more experienced starter.

I dont really care who wins the job as long as it ends up being the best option for the team tbh. Orton could do a fine job with a good running game and defence (see his last year at chicago), Tebow definitely has the potential, and Quinn seems vastly improved...

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

He really needs to get out of Denver right now. Pick up the phone BB, give them a 5th rounder for him!;)

You can **** right off with that idea. I dont want him anywhere near the Patriots. We don't need a project right now or ever. Hoyer and Mallett are good enough.

spiralism

Orton on fire tonight, he'll probably check out now with 10/13, 135 and a TD. That's what i like to see

frostie500

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

Heu really needs to get out of Denver right now. Pick up the phone BB, give them a 5th rounder for him!;)

You can **** right off with that idea. I dont want him anywhere near the Patriots. We don't need a project right now or ever. Hoyer and Mallett are good enough.

Yeah I was very impressed by hoyer in the preseason poker, dont see the jagsmatch bit he looks like another player the pats can trade away for a high pick and then develop Mallet, easily the best pure passer of this years rookie class.
In relation to tebow being moved to third string its important to remember the nfl an rules on qbs-if the third stringer plays for the final quarter he has to stay in for the rest of the game therefore Denver cant even use him for gadget plays like they did last year.
With nothing invested in him by the headland and elway there is little chance of him making.it in Denver. Great college player but it dont transmit o the nfl.
Good to see Quinn playing in a system that suits him, himself and leinhart have the potential to spring a few surprises this year I think

spiralism

frostie500 wrote: »

Yeah I was very impressed by hoyer in the preseason poker, dont see the jagsmatch bit he looks like another player the pats can trade away for a high pick and then develop Mallet, easily the best pure passer of this years rookie class.
In relation to tebow being moved to third string its important to remember the nfl an rules on qbs-if the third stringer plays for the final quarter he has to stay in for the rest of the game therefore Denver cant even use him for gadget plays like they did last year.
With nothing invested in him by the headland and elway there is little chance of him making.it in Denver. Great college player but it dont transmit o the nfl.
Good to see Quinn playing in a system that suits him, himself and leinhart have the potential to spring a few surprises this year I think

They've changed that rule this year, the third QB can start active and come in at any time now

Quinn looked pretty good alright last night yeah. would have had two TD passes only for a tip drill on 2nd and goal

Stev_o

I don't think their is any team that's willing to take a punt on him unless he's put on waivers. Really is a giant fall for the guy.