Irish wings for World Cup

gooch2k9

Thats good anyway, won't have players trying to over achieve in order to get on the plane.

theboss80

gooch2k9 wrote: »

When does the squad get announced? After the England game?

totallegend wrote: »

Nope, next Sunday, i.e. squad will be locked in before the England game.

Its Monday 22nd when final travelling squad announced.

GerM

McNaughton announced today that Bowe's foot is progressing but he won't be involved again next weekend. We're facing the prospect of him going into the WC seriously undercooked.

totallegend

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Thats good anyway, won't have players trying to over achieve in order to get on the plane.

Yeah. Maybe that's why Ryan has got through 160 minutes of rugby and made no impression on anyone.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

McNaughton announced today that Bowe's foot is progressing but he won't be involved again next weekend. We're facing the prospect of him going into the WC seriously undercooked.

If he gets one game against England plus a handy run-out in the RWC opener, he'll be alright I'd say. He was playing right up to the end of the ML season so he's not in the same boat as Flannery/Murphy/Ferris etc.

Amazotheamazing

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah. Maybe that's why Ryan has got through 160 minutes of rugby and made no impression on anyone.

Ryan was one of our top three tacklers yesterday (DOC had 8, Leamy and Ryan had 7 each), that's what you expect your 6 to be doing, especially when you give your 7 licence to run with the ball. Now, he wasn't great, he wasn't in the same class at 6 as Ferris or SOB can be, but he was good. Imo, he's done enough to be counted as third choice lock, in part because Cullen hasn't really grabbed his chance so far.

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

If he gets one game against England plus a handy run-out in the RWC opener, he'll be alright I'd say. He was playing right up to the end of the ML season so he's not in the same boat as Flannery/Murphy/Ferris etc.

Possibly but I would still have a concern about him. He hasn't trained properly at all for several weeks now according to reports so he doesn't have a pre-season under his belt. We saw in the 6N that he took a few games to get going after his injury. If Bowe does not get a full 80 minutes against England and USA (which won't be much of a test for him anyway) I'd have concerns with him going up against a razor sharp Ioane.

ionadnapóca

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm just a massive Fitz fan. He does so much work. He's a fantastic all around rugby player

Saying that I understand a wingers job is (conceivably) to score tries. Fitzgerald doesn't do that. So what is the answer? Discard Fitzgerald and waste all that ability? I hope it isn't. He's probably among the most talented all around players we've got. Maybe a position change for him?

Im a big fan of his as well. & his position change has to be out of the matchday 22. Out of Form. Plain and simple.
14. Bowe, 11. Earls
22. Murphy (if fit) / Jones (Kearney covering wing from .15)

McFadden & Trimble get the nod for the squad. Assuming Wallace wont be!

Luckycharm

Starting wings for me are Bowe and Earls. Earls is winger should be kept there he is a predator and knows where the tryline is. Trimble is playing well and would have him on the bench.
Fitz wouldn't make the plane for me - I reckon 50% of any moves he is involved in lead to turnovers - forcing things too much. I don't remember any major turnovers from Trimble in last 2 games. If fitz is to go I would like to see him tried in the centre where I think his skill set is more suited for.

LostPassword

Earls and Bowe are the incumbents for a good reason and will be until they show that they are significantly out of form or somebody else shows that they are in seriously good form. As neither Bowe nor Earls has played on the wing yet this year, it would be silly to suggest dropping them. Earls got a go at outside centre, to see whether he could cover that position in case of an injury to one of our starting centres, giving us greater flexibility in bench options. I thought he passed that test and played reasonably well for a man in his first game of the season, playing out of position. One over-thrown pass is the only real mistake he made in my book - other than that he looked sharp. He has shown that he can hold his own against a serious centre partnership, which will have, I would say, pleased the Irish management.

On the other side of the coin, Trimble has played pretty well and is definitely the man most likely to step in if one of the incumbents is hopelessly out of form in the next few games.

Both Fitz and McFadden have played fine in their appearances but neither has done anything much to really put any pressure on the incumbents.

LostPassword

Luckycharm wrote: »

I don't remember any major turnovers from Trimble in last 2 games.

He knocked the ball on when hitting the line at pace and taking contact at least twice in the first 2 games. Mind you, it takes a bit of match practice to get used to the physical intensity required to perform skills while being smashed by giant back-rows, and everybody was doing it, so I wouldn't really hold it against him.

Gelio

I would put Trimble ahead of Earls ATM but obviously the coaches see far more than we do. I think McFadden Should go but as Cover for the entire back line. He's not really a wing.

Ardillaun

GerM wrote: »

I've looked at the Earls incident again and I'd have to go with my initial reaction. A half decent pass would have put McFadden in. All that was required was a flat pass for him to run onto. Bonnaire was running towards Earls on a diagonal and not specifically covering McFadden. He was also slowing up. Unless Bonnaire flung himself into the air and slapped the ball, he wouldn't have been able to disrupt the pass; he wasn't in the line of a potential pass. A grubber through should have seen McFadden touch down also.

For me it has to be Bowe and Trimble. Though undoubtedly confident, Earls has become too fond of short kicks - a bit like those Fitz sidesteps - and he's not the most intimidating tackler on the planet. I don't relish the thought of D'Arcy and Earls trying to stop the big lads down under - they were very shaky against France. Trimble is a much safer bet in defence and offers more height for cross-kicks. He's not as natural a footballer as Earls but he is more reliable.

I don't know who is the fastest Irish back. Against Northampton, the Leinster crowd all looked fairly pedestrian when Ashton and Foden got their breaks. Maybe Earls is faster?

Anyway, who plays wing is one of those nice problems like scrum-half. We're spolit for choice and they're all pretty good and it doesn't matter a whole lot. The big worry must be the tight five and esp tighthead. Our cupboard is empty there. Mike Ross, stay well.

Luckycharm

LostPassword wrote: »

Earls and Bowe are the incumbents for a good reason and will be until they show that they are significantly out of form or somebody else shows that they are in seriously good form. As neither Bowe nor Earls has played on the wing yet this year, it would be silly to suggest dropping them. Earls got a go at outside centre, to see whether he could cover that position in case of an injury to one of our starting centres, giving us greater flexibility in bench options. I thought he passed that test and played reasonably well for a man in his first game of the season, playing out of position. One over-thrown pass is the only real mistake he made in my book - other than that he looked sharp. He has shown that he can hold his own against a serious centre partnership, which will have, I would say, pleased the Irish management.

On the other side of the coin, Trimble has played pretty well and is definitely the man most likely to step in if one of the incumbents is hopelessly out of form in the next few games.

Both Fitz and McFadden have played fine in their appearances but neither has done anything much to really put any pressure on the incumbents.

You do realise we are 8 months into this year and both have plenty on the wing for Ireland
Ardillaun- earls defence is fine and big wingers don't seem to be in vogue at the moment bar Banahan, none of the SH wingers are really massive the ozzie wingers are both pretty small, quick and Elusive.

bamboozle

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Ryan was one of our top three tacklers yesterday (DOC had 8, Leamy and Ryan had 7 each), that's what you expect your 6 to be doing, especially when you give your 7 licence to run with the ball. Now, he wasn't great, he wasn't in the same class at 6 as Ferris or SOB can be, but he was good. Imo, he's done enough to be counted as third choice lock, in part because Cullen hasn't really grabbed his chance so far.

i dont think Ryan took any clean lineout ball against France, he certainly did nothing of note on the french lineout.

mansman

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

he's done enough to be counted as third choice lock, in part because Cullen hasn't really grabbed his chance so far.

Ryan doesnt even get first team time at Munster, i doubt he will be there ahead of Cullen.

Cullen has bags of experience and although nothing out of this world he is generally a safe pair of hands.

GerM

Cullen did alright against Scotland and was poor against France. If anyone should be in consideration for the 3rd choice lock spot, it should be MOD. He was probably Munster's best player in the opening 4 months of the season on the back of being POTY last season. Kidney's desire to see Ryan play as a 5.5 has shafted him in my opinion.

phog

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah. Maybe that's why Ryan has got through 160 minutes of rugby and made no impression on anyone.

There's none so blind as those who will not see

athtrasna

ooops...for a minute I thought I'd clicked on a thread about Wings...not forwards

Tomorrow's selection will tell a lot. Fitzgerald on the team against Connacht would indicate his chance of a seat on the plane is diminishing.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I think I would consider Trimble to be in possesion of a first choice wing jersey at the moment. That said there are three more matches between now and the first big match in the WC. I would expect Earls and Bowe to both get a shot to claim a shirt and if they come good they should get the starting positions.

danthefan

You can't have 2 non-lineout 2nd rows in your 22. DOC and Ryan played together against London Irish in the HEC, it was a disaster and Ryan was immediately dropped. Cullen hasn't done especially well though either in the warm ups so we're not in a great spot in this regard.

totallegend

phog wrote: »

There's none so blind as those who will not see

Only outdone in blindness by those whose red-tinted glasses obscure everything else.

Ardillaun

Luckycharm wrote: »

You do realise we are 8 months into this year and both have plenty on the wing for Ireland
Ardillaun- earls defence is fine and big wingers don't seem to be in vogue at the moment bar Banahan, none of the SH wingers are really massive the ozzie wingers are both pretty small, quick and Elusive.

Fair enough but the NZ, SA and French guys are usually outside big centres. With Earls we will have light lads all the way through from the scrum. The line has defended extremely well all year but I suspect we'll cave in the last quarter of a big game without more mass. I think of the way Tuilagi ran right over BOD in the Leicester HC game or Rougerie over ?Darce in the 6N if memory serves. That's when someone like Trimble might make the difference.

Ashton and Foden are quick. Judging by the Northampton game, we don't have too many backs in that category. For all his skill, Kearney is NOT the quickest. I don't know about Earls. The last obviously fast Irish wing I can think of was Denis Hickie.

Systic

I've been reading through this forum the last few days and I just want to say something.

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing rugby rather than just blindly defending any players who happen to be from their province? From what I can see, firstly there are a majority of Munster supporters here and secondly they cannot take any criticism of any of their players at all.

This Ulster man's short lived stay here is over. I'll leave you Leinster/Connacht and Munster fans to battle it out

Adios Amigos!

gooch2k9

Can someone tell me what a 5.5 is? I've played rugby and never heard the term...

Hagz

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Can someone tell me what a 5.5 is? I've played rugby and never heard the term...

It's just a term that's being used to describe someone who can do a job at both blindside and lock.

Hagz

Systic wrote: »

I've been reading through this forum the last few days and I just want to say something.

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing rugby rather than just blindly defending any players who happen to be from their province? From what I can see, firstly there are a majority of Munster supporters here and secondly they cannot take any criticism of any of their players at all.

This Ulster man's short lived stay here is over. I'll leave you Leinster/Connacht and Munster fans to battle it out

Adios Amigos!

Have a look at your own posts before you go round spouting nonsense. I think you'll find that you yourself are quite "provincially blinded". Not only have you spent a vast amount of time talking about Trimble like he's god, you also spent a lot of time displaying your lack of knowledge when you wrote about Earls this season.

It's a pity your leaving. There are very few Ulster fans who stick around.

Systic wrote: »

I'm calling for Trimble's inclusion on the basis of his form on the wing all season.

Nice to see Wallace getting all abuse despite doing everything that was asked of him. Meanwhile Leamy gets off scot free :rolleyes:

Systic wrote: »

I said he did nothing of note last season which he didn't. The guy is overhyped to high heavens, if he was from Ulster it would be a different story altogether.

To be honest I think theres nothing between Earls and Fitzgerald and they're both miles behind Trimble.

Trimble on the other hand was excellent. Sorry if Ulster wingers arent fashionable

Systic wrote: »

Earls did absolutely nothing of note in the 6N. He didn't even score a try, Trimble actually looks far more dangerous. Maybe its because hes not from Leinster or Munster though

Systic wrote: »

Thats right, Trimble has been playing much better. If Horgan could play 11 I would have him ahead of Earls and Fitzgerald as well. The fact is Earls has done very little this year at 11 whereas Trimble has looked very, very good. It doesn't help that Trimble is unfashionable though for many supporters.

phog

totallegend wrote: »

Only outdone in blindness by those whose red-tinted glasses obscure everything else.

Where have I talked up a Munster player in this thread or either of the match threads?

Trevor Kent

Ardillaun wrote: »

Fair enough but the NZ, SA and French guys are usually outside big centres. With Earls we will have light lads all the way through from the scrum. The line has defended extremely well all year but I suspect we'll cave in the last quarter of a big game without more mass. I think of the way Tuilagi ran right over BOD in the Leicester HC game or Rougerie over ?Darce in the 6N if memory serves. That's when someone like Trimble might make the difference.

Ashton and Foden are quick. Judging by the Northampton game, we don't have too many backs in that category. For all his skill, Kearney is NOT the quickest. I don't know about Earls. The last obviously fast Irish wing I can think of was Denis Hickie.

Really?? I always thought he had plenty of gas.

GerM

Trevor Kent wrote: »

Really?? I always thought he had plenty of gas.

He does. It's one of those myths that for some reason grew and is now implanted in the public psyche. People see a big enough bloke with a big boot and assume that he's not fast.