Do protestors have jobs?

MungBean

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Quitting is for losers and socialists.

Keep going you'll eventually get a bite.

landsleaving

Oddjob wrote: »

No, they're generally wasters who will protest about any old bollocks.

Like Richard Boyd Barrett.

Richard Boyd Barrett... the TD? Yeah, total waster, it's easy to get into politics and get elected anyway.

Sure all he does is sit in the dail all day and have a bit of a protest every second weekend. Lazy git.

*Be advised, sarcasm detectors may be in danger of overloading*

landsleaving

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Socialist loonies with real jobs? Don't make me laugh.

Where's Pauleta these days? He's better at this.

MungBean

landsleaving wrote: »

Richard Boyd Barrett... the TD? Yeah, total waster, it's easy to get into politics and get elected anyway.

Sure all he does is sit in the dail all day and have a bit of a protest every second weekend. Lazy git.

*Be advised, sarcasm detectors may be in danger of overloading*

I find it interesting that Boyd Barrett would be related to unemployed wasters faster than other TD's. Despite Boyd Barrett being one of the few TD's that isnt trying to do the state for every penny he can.

People are quick to link socialism to unemployment and benefit "fraud". But how is politicians on 100-200k a year claiming everything they possibly can from the state for expenses, secretaries, phone calls and a litany of other things to ensure the personally profit as much as possible any different than a citizen doing the same thing when on welfare ?

Bergkamp 10

I love how people abuse and mock anyone with socialistic viewpoints or continue to embarrass themselves with the phrase , "left wing loons", are also the people who day in day out cry and whinge about Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael and Labour and everything else.

How about you make up your minds?

sensibleken

Your absolutely right

SHUT UP! BE HAPPY!
CONTENTMENT IS NOW ENFORCEABLE BY LAW.

Oranage2

PseudoFamous wrote: »

I'd say I probably work a helluva lot harder than you do, as a "lazy student". I'll bet you don't have a 62-68 hour week to do due to living 80km away from your work or study because you can't afford to live nearer (Due to fees, surprisingly). I'll bet you don't get up at 6am to be back at 9pm. I also have homework, study and assignments to do, adding many hours to that figure.

I'd appreciate you to not make such sweeping generalisations, thanks.

It's not really work is it your not getting paid par se, and I'd appreciate if you thanked me for affording you the luxary of college since its my taxes that cover you're grant and college fees.

Gee Bag

There was a lad on Hunger Strike outside the Dail a couple of years ago because he wanted an enquiry into something ot other. More than once when I walked by him when he was having a cup of tea and a kit-kat!!!!!!

sensibleken

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's not really work is it your not getting paid par se, and I'd appreciate if you thanked me for affording you the luxary of college since its my taxes that cover you're grant and college fees.

no it isnt. Its mine, and he's welcome to it if it means people will be sufficently educated in the difference between work and employment.

Oranage2

sensibleken wrote: »

no it isnt. Its mine, and he's welcome to it if it means people will be sufficently educated in the difference between work and employment.

My 4 year old nephew does about 20-30 hours a week - education cant be that hard -

Anyway most college courses are a joke these days basically just glorified colouring in and doing jig saws.

MungBean

Oranage2 wrote: »

My 4 year old nephew does about 20-30 hours a week - education cant be that hard -

Anyway most college courses are a joke these days basically just glorified colouring in and doing jig saws.

I'm starting to wonder why I bother coming on here anymore. Theres just too many people intent on killing that tiny bit of faith I have left in humanity.

I'm forced to agree with you regards education though. Anything that taught you how to read and write cant be good.

Micky Dolenz

The only thing worse then a protestor is a sheep. sheep who will happily be lead to the slaughter. With a baa baa here and a baa baa there.

Nodin

...this thread really is a good indication of why things have panned out in this country as they have over the last 90 years.

tbh

Nodin wrote: »

...this thread really is a good indication of why things have panned out in this country as they have over the last 90 years.

Bollocks in fairness. this is a great country to live in. You should see some of the ****holes I've been to.

Micky Dolenz

tbh wrote: »

Bollocks in fairness. this is a great country to live in. You should see some of the ****holes I've been to.

I tend to agree with Nodin. We could always compare ourselves to places worse off then us, why not compare ourselves to places that are better off?

How we as a nation ever won our freedom is beyond me sometimes, we have no fight, we'll happily take whatever sh*t is put in front of us and beg for more.

People are dying in this country because we have a mismanaged health service. Over a person a day kills themselves because we can't or won't tackle mental health.

OAP frezze in the winter and are barely hanging on because we can't look after our elderly. Kids with special needs are doomed. Parents of disabled children getting there only rest bite removed becasue we can't afford even the most basic courtesy, the list goes on and on.

All the while the country gears up for a mutli million race to appoint a meaningless figure head.

Go figure.

Nodin

tbh wrote: »

Bollocks in fairness. this is a great country to live in. You should see some of the ****holes I've been to.

(I used watch the Sumo on Ch4. I don't use them lads as an excuse to say I'm not a fat cunt).

...when you can compare yourself to the arse end of rural india, Burma or wherever, its hard not to look good. However we still have problems of accountability, corruption, social equality and attitudes to address.

tbh

Nodin wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

Bollocks in fairness. this is a great country to live in. You should see some of the ****holes I've been to.

(I used watch the Sumo on Ch4. I don't use them lads as an excuse to say I'm not a fat c[SIZE="2"]un[/SIZE]t).

...when you can compare yourself to the arse end of rural india, Burma or wherever, its hard not to look good. However we still have problems of accountability, corruption, social equality and attitudes to address.

Point taken and respected. However, you have a computer, internet access, freedom of expression, access to welfare and public health and education, albeit imperfect. compared to 90% of the world dude, you're laughing.

Mike 1972

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They have part time jobs at Placards-R-Us. Protests are just a corporate ploy for the placard making industry.

I remember reading something about some country (Japan IIRC) where they have professional protesters as in actually making a living from it.

If youre really pi$$ed of about something but too many calls on your time/energy to do something about it you can just pay one of these guys to protest on your behalf.

Apparently a lot of trade unions use them to picket employers rather than having their own members risking losing more than they gain through going on strike and seemingly it works on a lot of Japanese companies as they consider such pickets bad for their public image.

Must being kinda wierd being a professional protester though out demonstrating for something or other one one day and agein' it the next ?

tbh

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They have part time jobs at Placards-R-Us. Protests are just a corporate ploy for the placard making industry.

I remember reading something about some country (Japan IIRC) where they have professional protesters as in actually making a living from it.

If youre really pi$$ed of about something but too many calls on your time/energy to do something about it you can just pay one of these guys to protest on your behalf.

Apparently a lot of trade unions use them to picket employers rather than having their own members risking losing more than they gain through going on strike and seemingly it works on a lot of Japanese companies as they consider such pickets bad for their public image.

I've actually seen this. Four guys protesting against the emperor using a van that played crowd noises. Sounded like there were thousands of them!

Micky Dolenz

tbh wrote: »

Point taken and respected. However, you have a computer, internet access, freedom of expression, access to welfare and public health and education, albeit imperfect. compared to 90% of the world dude, you're laughing.

So you should settle for what you have,never question anything or try to make things better?

Gee Bag

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The only thing worse then a protestor is a sheep. sheep who will happily be lead to the slaughter. With a baa baa here and a baa baa there.

Having seen the state of some of those crustie girls I think the sheep would make a sexier choice

joela

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The only thing worse then a protestor is a sheep. sheep who will happily be lead to the slaughter. With a baa baa here and a baa baa there.

Yeah but that is assuming that there are no shades in between either end of the scale. How do you define a sheep, other than a woolly mammal, because you could argue that those who jump on the bandwagon to protest are just as sheeplike. I actually like the socialist ideal, it sounds pretty fair to me but humans just don't seem to have the capacity to not want power and more than others. Unfortunately I think socialism has been stolen as a label for those who seem to have an inexplicable desire to cause chaos, lie and not necessarily bother to learn the facts either.

I asked if protestors have jobs because I wonder how, if they have, they can take so much time off. I probably should have referred to them as activists but then that give activists a bad name. I find it extremely hypocritical that people describing the government and companies as fascist and dictatorial are willing to take money from the people they profess to hate.This money was generated as revenue for the people they hate from the people they profess to be protecting for the purposes of paying them to not work?

Again I am not discussing people who protest about causes they are informed about and truly believe in, I would hope that these would be the protestors who don't harangue people or send hate messages. I'd imagine from the response on here that these are the people who work, have opinions and while not "sheep" also understand that the system isn't going to change overnight and we can only keep chipping away at it.


Anyway I guess calling people leftie loons is not correct but assuming those of us who work for change through the system are sheep is just as bad. For what it is worth having an opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean the other person is automatically a sheep Mr Moderator.

TheyKnowMyIP

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So you should settle for what you have,never question anything or try to make things better?

Not unless you are willing to move.

tbh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

Point taken and respected. However, you have a computer, internet access, freedom of expression, access to welfare and public health and education, albeit imperfect. compared to 90% of the world dude, you're laughing.

So you should settle for what you have,never question anything or try to make things better?

Yeah, that was clearly my point. and obviously the best way to make things better is to post about how **** the country is on boards.

Micky Dolenz

joela wrote: »

For what it is worth having an opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean the other person is automatically a sheep Mr Moderator.

I didn't say it had. And Please call me Micky.

So you rate your protestors? How do you know if they are well informed or truely believe in the cause they protest against? Is their work status a reflection on their belief system?

Would you respect a protestor more if they had a job and protested in their spare time?

The Waltzing Consumer

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

So you should settle for what you have,never question anything or try to make things better?

Yeah definately true, but keeping with the theme of the thread, these guys who go from cause to cause, protesting the weather pretty much, are not aiming for what you aim.

Many of these were praising the actions of the Greeks when they were protesting and evading paying any bloody tax, there were many posters, socialists or not, who were so hopeful that crap would happen here, they were praying for it, thinking it would help and change things for the better.

Fast foward to the present, Greece is even more f**ked and striking is just part of the work day now, Ireland, kept it's head, and yeah still tons and tons of work to do but looks likely to be the country who have performed well above the expectations when compared to the other f**ed countries in Europe, we could have growth for two consecutive quarters, I am reading more job creations stories every week and we could be on our way to the final too!

:pac:

tbh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

The only thing worse then a protestor is a sheep. sheep who will happily be lead to the slaughter. With a baa baa here and a baa baa there.

And the only thing worse than a sheep is a sheep who thinks he's a wolf

Micky Dolenz

tbh wrote: »

Yeah, that was clearly my point. and obviously the best way to make things better is to post about how **** the country is on boards.

What was your point exactly?

TheyKnowMyIP

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I didn't say it had. And Please call me Micky.

So you rate your protestors? How do you know if they are well informed or truely believe in the cause they protest against? Is their work status a reflection on their belief system?

Would you respect a protestor more if they had a job and protested in their spare time?

I would respect them more if they just stopped protesting. Banging on in public about stuff you don't really have any control over is just wasted oxygen and pisses off people trying to go about their daily lives.

To me, most of em are clowns.

Not to mention you just look like an idiot and once you make enough noise, end up on the INTERPOL list. Want to change something? Do something about it through the legal system. Protests are the lowest form of initiative.

tbh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

Yeah, that was clearly my point. and obviously the best way to make things better is to post about how **** the country is on boards.

What was your point exactly?

You're attributing to me an argument I never made. Why don't you just write whatever you want and assume my point is whatever it is you're arguing against.

SafeSurfer

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I would respect them more if they just stopped protesting. Banging on in public about stuff you don't really have any control over is just wasted oxygen and pisses off people trying to go about their daily lives.

To me, most of em are clowns.

Not to mention you just look like an idiot and once you make enough noise, end up on the INTERPOL list. Want to change something? Do something about it through the legal system. Protests are the lowest form of initiative.

Next there will be people out on the streets protesting about the protesters.

Do those protesting about the protesters have jobs?

Micky Dolenz

tbh wrote: »

You're attributing to me an argument I never made. Why don't you just write whatever you want and assume my point is whatever it is you're arguing against.

That's the best you can come up with. Strong reasoning there.

4leto

Union protesters have jobs,

Nurses have jobs.

parker kent

My old boss was a protester and she had a fairly well paid position.

Protesters can get holidays from their day jobs too you know!

tbh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

You're attributing to me an argument I never made. Why don't you just write whatever you want and assume my point is whatever it is you're arguing against.

That's the best you can come up with. Strong reasoning there.

Its not the best I can come up with. Its me telling you I couldn't be arsed clarifying an already simple point. And once again what I write and what you read seem to be poles apart. So probably best if we leave it there - by all means tho feel free to get the last word with a pithy reply.

TheyKnowMyIP

I have two jobs, actually:)

Anyway, Unions are another problem entirely. I hate Unions. Look at Jack O Connor for example, that guy is on quite alot of money for someone who claims to be "for the people". Clowns the lot of em. Hard work will get you anywhere. Don't like working for others? Self employment is the rage these days.

Noisemakers, the lot of em. Your employment rights are explicit usually through state membership, not union membership.

Micky Dolenz

parker kent wrote: »

My old boss was a protester and she had a fairly well paid position.

Protesters can get holidays from their day jobs too you know!

A mate of mine who lives in the UK has a good profession and I saw him on RTE news protesting at Dale farm :P

Dudess

I can't take a simplistic view on this: I don't have a problem with protests, have taken part in them, and have huge respect for many, many people who are standing up for something - and have researched the facts, take a balanced view, and don't resort to bully tactics.
However, I cannot ****ing stand the way some groups with a particular vested interest hijack something irrelevant to them. It does happen. One that springs to mind is a bunch of auld fellas in Cork marching against the closure of an orthopaedic hospital. Then, along comes SF, then the Palestine solidarity heads, then the Socialist Workers Party - if they just wanted to join the protest, fair enough, but they were obviously using this particular demo to push their own agendas... seeing as they didn't get rid of their banners and whatnot.
Then, there ARE the protestors who are just bandwagon-jumping **** - I despise those who go on about "looney lefties" but I have just as little time for those people who jump on any Indymedia type bandwagon, don't bother researching the facts, spew fallacies, and bitch about capitalism and big corporations... while benefitting from these things (whether it be the dole or a job or consumerism) - the Teresa Treacy case obviously being a prime example. Doubt those tools would give up their electricity. And a lot of them seem well-heeled and not really familiar with hardship.
I'm quite passionate about the Palestine cause, but I actually can't stand the self-righteousness of some of those people who go on marches for it.

I also do find it ridiculous the way people regularly bitch and moan about how we Irish are complacent and never get out and do anything... on the internet. I know it's been said before - over and over - but the irony still seems to be lost on some.

I see where both Micky/Nodin and tbh are coming from - there are a lot of improvements needed in this country, but some peeps (mostly just teenage kids to be fair) compare it to some ****ing third world nightmare zone... which is idiotic.

Nodin

tbh wrote: »

Point taken and respected. However, you have a computer, internet access, freedom of expression, access to welfare and public health and education, albeit imperfect. compared to 90% of the world dude, you're laughing.

My personal circumstances are such that these days not only am I laughing, I'm on the pigs back. I fail to see how that means I should then say 'Fuck the Hindmost' and let on everybody and everything is fine and dandy.

tbh wrote: »

Yeah, that was clearly my point. and obviously the best way to make things better is to post about how **** the country is on boards. .

Unless you know posters here personally, you've no idea what they do, why they do it or why they don't before they arrive here and make some remark or other.

mikemac

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Anyway, Unions are another problem entirely. I hate Unions.

Hard work will get you anywhere.

Your employment rights are explicit usually through state membership, not union membership.

If only it was that simple

Not everyone can fight their corner, the young lad on the factory floor may struggle in a meeting with management in a multi-national. It's intimidating for some
A teenager in a hotel can't always deal with bullying managers. And bullying is rife in the hotel industry

Yes legislation is there but hotels don't fire you, they just cut your hours and give them to a new hire. You get no hours so you leave, you were not fired

So you are able and self confident and assertive and good for you.
Unions are there to help all members.

And yes work hard. But if you do unpaid overtime constantly and there is zero opportunity of a promotion or a bonus out of it, you are a sucker.

joela

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I didn't say it had. And Please call me Micky.

So you rate your protestors? How do you know if they are well informed or truely believe in the cause they protest against? Is their work status a reflection on their belief system?

Would you respect a protestor more if they had a job and protested in their spare time?

You are being deliberately obtuse now. No I do not "rate" my protestors, I was merely trying to demonstrate that there are many places along the scale and if mine doesn't equal yours then it still doesn't make me a sheep. Maybe I could start a website www.rateyourprotestors.com

FWIW I have protested, I have green ideals, strong belief in the importance of the natural environment, I care about the food crisis in Africa etc etc However I also happen to have to pay my bills, feed my family and have the odd jaunt somewhere so this is why I initially wondered how committed activists manage it? I still stand by my opinion that if they are committed activists they either should be supporting themselves through work or by being completely self-sustaining. So if they work then how the feck do they manage to get off and protest so much.

Any enough said now, we've established there are varying viewpoints and that some of us are woolly mammals and some are lefty loons.

tbh

Nodin wrote: »

tbh wrote: »

Point taken and respected. However, you have a computer, internet access, freedom of expression, access to welfare and public health and education, albeit imperfect. compared to 90% of the world dude, you're laughing.

My personal circumstances are such that these days not only am I laughing, I'm on the pigs back. I fail to see how that means I should then say 'F[SIZE="2"]uc[/SIZE]k the Hindmost' and let on everybody and everything is fine and dandy.

tbh wrote: »

Yeah, that was clearly my point. and obviously the best way to make things better is to post about how **** the country is on boards. .

Unless you know posters here personally, you've no idea what they do, why they do it or why they don't before they arrive here and make some remark or other.

Not interested in your backstory, with respect, I react to what you actually post, as opposed to the potential reasons for you posting it. Got something constructive to say? Deadly - all ears. Want to just post that the country is crap? Expect to get called on it.

ed2hands

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I would respect them more if they just stopped protesting. Banging on in public about stuff you don't really have any control over is just wasted oxygen and pisses off people trying to go about their daily lives.

To me, most of em are clowns.

Not to mention you just look like an idiot and once you make enough noise, end up on the INTERPOL list. Want to change something? Do something about it through the legal system. Protests are the lowest form of initiative.

Couldn't disagree more old chap.

tbh

ed2hands wrote: »

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I would respect them more if they just stopped protesting. Banging on in public about stuff you don't really have any control over is just wasted oxygen and pisses off people trying to go about their daily lives.

To me, most of em are clowns.

Not to mention you just look like an idiot and once you make enough noise, end up on the INTERPOL list. Want to change something? Do something about it through the legal system. Protests are the lowest form of initiative.

Couldn't disagree more old chap.

Well lets see whos first to take back control of their economy - and therefore their welfare system - the Irish sheep or the Greek bulldogs.

SafeSurfer

Of course people could stop protesting, moaning on boards etc. They could set up their own political party and seek to effect real political change.

However that is much more difficult to do than say.
Take the US, where the protests are taking place. The most powerful democracy in the world has a 2 party system. Its a choice between Coke and Pepsi.
Why is it difficult to break into poltics in the US? Because it is the sport of the rich with a few rare exceptions.

Ireland is not much better. A virtual 2 party system FF+ vs FG/lab, thats your choice.

How long have newly formed political parties lasted? PDs gone, Greens almost gone, Democratic Left gone, Socialists, PBP we'll see how long they last.

Remember before the last election Dunphy, O'Toole, Mc Williams et al looked set to form a new political party then gave up?

So in the absence of politics that reflect the concerns of individuals or groups of course there are going to be protests, whether its a broad global issue like anti war to a local issue like no Plyons in Offaly etc.

Maybe after another few years of austerity politics in Ireland will change for ever and there will be an alternative to Tweedle Dumb/Tweedle Dee.

SafeSurfer

tbh wrote: »

Well lets see whos first to take back control of their economy - and therefore their welfare system - the Irish sheep or the Greek bulldogs.

Thats an easy one Greece will default first.

joela

http://video.l3.fbcdn.net/cfs-l3-snc4/79048/683/188975267784344_52531.mp4?oh=4044b9df5143a9bdcb54afdf48543e00&oe=4E90B000&l3s=20111006130808&l3e=20111008131808&lh=0fceeaf9d2e42e7c5f616

Micky Dolenz

No body wants the country to default or collaspe, or indeed the Eurozone.

You can't even compare the Irish situation to the Greek one and visa versa.

I'm not for a second suggesting we storm the Dáil, but sometimes people need to stop and think of others.

Look around, there is loads wrong and largely we let it happen. People protest and it's a annoyance to some. We live in a culture were protesting is looked down on, regardless of what the protests are about. Feckin farmers, feckin nurses, fecking students, feckin etc. We live in a country were "shur I'm grand" rules.

joela

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No body wants the country to default or collaspe, or indeed the Eurozone.

You can't even compare the Irish situation to the Greek one and visa versa.

I'm not for a second suggesting we storm the Dáil, but sometimes people need to stop and think of others.

Look around, there is loads wrong and largely we let it happen. People protest and it's a annoyance to some. We live in a culture were protesting is looked down on, regardless of what the protests are about. Feckin farmers, feckin nurses, fecking students, feckin etc. We live in a country were "shur I'm grand" rules.

Listen there are protests and protests, many that make headlines are not necessarily protests for positive or important reasons. Note the word many in the last sentence, not all protests. Then the important protest needs to happen and it isn't on the agenda for those who normally protest or if it is they go over the top and feck it up for the rest of us. The kind of protest that we should be making definitely isn't happening and the ones that are happening are the ones that end up ensuring ALL protests and protestors are dismissed. Oh god I am probably rating my protestors now, tiredness is getting to me.

tbh

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

You can't even compare the Irish situation to the Greek one and visa versa.

Why not? the root causes for the problems in both economies are exactly the same - both countries relied too much on cheap credit. The only difference is how the two countries are reacting to the problem. Greeks are rioting, Irish are rolling their sleeves up. And getting called sheep for doing it.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We live in a culture were protesting is looked down on, regardless of what the protests are about..

That's clearly not true. You don't remember the peace marches I take it?

We live in a country were "shur I'm grand" rules.

latest available figures (2008/9) from the oecd - 9th highest country for charitable donations as a percentage of gdp, 19th highest country in absolute terms, 4th most generous country when comparing donations per citizen.

The arguments you're putting forward simply don't stack up.