Life on the dole

EGAR

Robdude wrote: »

Personally - I think everyone on the dole (at least, every able-bodied person) should be required to perform 20 hours of community service each week in order to get their payments.

A lot of people on the dole complain that they feel worthless. This would give them some sense of purpose. And lord knows, there are plenty of jobs to be done. Some of it could even be considered valuable training for when these people return to the work-force.

Working 20 hours per week still gives job seekers plenty of time to search for a job and the hours could be flexible to allow job interviews. This might even discourage people from abusing the system - now it's not free money, it's an honest, decent paying part-time job that will keep food on the table until you can find something better.

The tax payers win too - they are still paying for the dole benefits but now they get something tangible; even if it's someone as simple as cleaner streets and parks.

Many who are on the dole now have lost their jobs in the recession and can't find new ones, they have worked years and contributed.

Faith+1

EGAR wrote: »

No, unfortunately it is illegal.

No I'd say Fortunately It's Illegal.

Arianna_26

Robdude wrote: »

Personally - I think everyone on the dole (at least, every able-bodied person) should be required to perform 20 hours of community service each week in order to get their payments.

A lot of people on the dole complain that they feel worthless. This would give them some sense of purpose. And lord knows, there are plenty of jobs to be done. Some of it could even be considered valuable training for when these people return to the work-force.

Nice.

Robdude wrote: »

Working 20 hours per week still gives job seekers plenty of time to search for a job and the hours could be flexible to allow job interviews. This might even discourage people from abusing the system - now it's not free money, it's an honest, decent paying part-time job that will keep food on the table until you can find something better.

The tax payers win too - they are still paying for the dole benefits but now they get something tangible; even if it's someone as simple as cleaner streets and parks.

Now, you do realize that people already employed by city and county councils to do this kind of work and that they are paid for it.

What do you suggest, we fire them and get the jobless to do it instead just so the taxpayers feel like they are getting something back?

Killer Pigeon

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Key phrase you missed from my post... "in a previous thread".

Like i said, all this trolly **** from you have been done, and i am aware of your genuine opinions. I look forward to you hopefully evolving your trolling game in 2012.

Trolling and garnering a higher "Thanks" count in 2012 is my goal.

L1011

Faith+1 wrote: »

No I'd say Fortunately It's Illegal.

Not for much longer. We have to legislate for the legal route in the Constitution or there's trouble. Mid 2012 and we'll enter the 20th Century.

smallBiscuit

I think that 95% of people on the dole, hate it and are desperately trying to find work. It's that other 5%, they give the rest a bad name.
Some, like people I grew up with are lifers, multiple generation of people on the dole, even through the boom. Our my neighbour, and husband, who not only never worked, but have refused training courses. As the wife said, why do a course, when we can sit here, and get money anyway?he
This attitude, these people, are the problem, they give the rest a bad name.

This is my view, it may not be a great view, but it's mine.

Robdude

EGAR wrote: »

Many who are on the dole now have lost their jobs in the recession and can't find new ones, they have worked years and contributed.

Which is why I think the dole should exist.

I don't think asking people to work part-time for their pay check is too much to ask. And if anyone isn't willing to work part-time for the dole, they must not need the money.

EGAR

Faith+1 wrote: »

No I'd say Fortunately It's Illegal.

As I am pro choice I say unfortunately abortion is illegal.

But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.:rolleyes:

theg81der

teaandtoast wrote: »

Congratulations on your pregancy! hope everything goes well for you.

I would love to have a child but I really want it to have all the oppertunities available to them in life to prosper without struggling so maybe in the future when things get better, will see what happens. That is not to say people who are on low income cannot give alot to their children but every situation is different.

I so agree with what your saying and if I didn`t have problem with fertility and wasn`t in a now or never situation it would have been great to wait but thats not life for me. I`m really sad about not being able to do things the way I had planned.

Robdude

Arianna_26 wrote: »

Nice.



Now, you do realize that people already employed by city and county councils to do this kind of work and that they are paid for it.

What do you suggest, we fire them and get the jobless to do it instead just so the taxpayers feel like they are getting something back?

'These people' refers to people collecting the dole while unemployed. I don't see the need to bold it. I was recently unemployed for several months. It's not an insult - it's words that describe what I'm talking about.

And, from what I've seen around where I live, while there might be city employees who get paid to clean up - they are either understaffed or incompetent. Certainly there is *something* of value people on the dole can contribute to society for 15-20 hours per week...

EGAR

Robdude wrote: »

Which is why I think the dole should exist.

I don't think asking people to work part-time for their pay check is too much to ask. And if anyone isn't willing to work part-time for the dole, they must not need the money.

Hold on a minute, and here was me thinking people who pay tax contributed already to their OWN dole should they be unfortunate enough to lose their job?

woodoo

The dole should have been cut again this year and some of the savings used to help the newly unemployed who have mortgages and bills. Mr and Mrs Mclayabout on the dole longer than 3 years should be on about €100 per week each max.

Robdude

EGAR wrote: »

Hold on a minute, and here was me thinking people who pay tax contributed already to their OWN dole should they be unfortunate enough to lose their job?

Is that how the system works?

Does a certain amount of the tax I pay get placed into a 'RobDude's Dole Fund' that I can collect when I'm unemployed - until it runs out?

Or does everyone pay a percentage and everyone who meets the requirements can collect?

Because those are two very different systems. If you think the dole should be a savings account where nobody ever gets more out than they put in - I would agree; asking people to work for the money they paid already is silly.

But if you have a system where someone can choose to collect more than they put in, and even have generations of people who don't work and focus on collecting the dole instead - I see nothing but benefit by requiring work in exchange for the check.

Arianna_26

Robdude wrote: »

'These people' refers to people collecting the dole while unemployed. I don't see the need to bold it. I was recently unemployed for several months. It's not an insult - it's words that describe what I'm talking about.

And, from what I've seen around where I live, while there might be city employees who get paid to clean up - they are either understaffed or incompetent. Certainly there is *something* of value people on the dole can contribute to society for 15-20 hours per week...

I doubt there would be enough community service to go around though. There are nearly half a million people unemployed.

Besides I think the reason they introduced the internship schemes was so that the unemployed could contribute without being given the same kind of work as those who offend.

EGAR

Robdude wrote: »

Is that how the system works?

Does a certain amount of the tax I pay get placed into a 'RobDude's Dole Fund' that I can collect when I'm unemployed - until it runs out?

Or does everyone pay a percentage and everyone who meets the requirements can collect?

Because those are two very different systems. If you think the dole should be a savings account where nobody ever gets more out than they put in - I would agree; asking people to work for the money they paid already is silly.

But if you have a system where someone can choose to collect more than they put in, and even have generations of people who don't work and focus on collecting the dole instead - I see nothing but benefit by requiring work in exchange for the check.

Unlike yourself, I wasn't sarcastic. I thought that is what *stamps* ie National Insurance contributions are for?

LighterGuy

I tell ya,
Ireland is a shower of begrudgers ..

- people working begrudge people on the dole.
- people on the dole begrudge people working.
- people begrudge someone doing a nixer.
- people begrudge anyone who has money.

geez people.

Robdude

Arianna_26 wrote: »

I doubt there would be enough community service to go around though. There are nearly half a million people unemployed.

Besides I think the reason they introduced the internship schemes was so that the unemployed could contribute without being given the same kind of work as those who offend.

Once everything imaginable is done, scale back the hours. Or introduce a graduated hour requirement - first 2 months - you don't have to do anything, next 2 months - you need to donate 4 hours of your time, next 2 months 8 hours, etc, etc.

If the only downside is we might have so many people doing worthy tasks that we run out - I think it's a great idea.

fat__tony

LighterGuy wrote: »

I tell ya,
Ireland is a shower of begrudgers ..

- people working begrudge people on the dole.
- people on the dole begrudge people working.
- people begrudge someone doing a nixer.
- people begrudge anyone who has money.

geez people.

Its twats like those you have described which make me very glad not to be living in the country anymore.

People like that show the country up for the dump that it is.

Robdude

EGAR wrote: »

Unlike yourself, I wasn't sarcastic. I thought that is what *stamps* ie National Insurance contributions are for?

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought you only had to meet the minimum number of payments to qualify. As long as you do that - you can get on the dole. The amount you get out is not limited to the amount you've contributed.

Arianna_26

Robdude wrote: »

Once everything imaginable is done, scale back the hours. Or introduce a graduated hour requirement - first 2 months - you don't have to do anything, next 2 months - you need to donate 4 hours of your time, next 2 months 8 hours, etc, etc.

If the only downside is we might have so many people doing worthy tasks that we run out - I think it's a great idea.

I think that there are a few downsides to your proposal tbh.

1. People are already employed (however inefficiently) to do the type of work you are suggesting.

2. Community service is more commonly given to offenders - the unemployed person would then be treated the same as someone who has done harm to society.

EGAR

Robdude wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought you only had to meet the minimum number of payments to qualify. As long as you do that - you can get on the dole. The amount you get out is not limited to the amount you've contributed.

I don't know which is why I asked.

So you don't know, I don't know - WHO can enlighten us?

bryaner

44leto wrote: »

Tough man sorry to hear, I really hope it gets better, but don't lose heart and keep looking it will get better.

Cheers dude thanks hope all is good with you..

uck51js9zml2yt

Its tough not having a wage but im retraining and got and honours degree last year and doing a postgrad now.
Just hope there's a job at the end of it all.

Gareth2011

Robdude wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought you only had to meet the minimum number of payments to qualify. As long as you do that - you can get on the dole. The amount you get out is not limited to the amount you've contributed.

Yes you need certain amount of stamps to get on it for a certain lenght of time but you can't be on JSB for more than 312 days regardless. Doesnt matter if you have worked for the last 20 years you will still get JSB for 312 days. If you re-qualify for it fine but that only for another 9 months. After the JSB runs out you are means tested for JSA and as far I know know you can get that indefinatly which to me is the stupidest past and current governments have ever done. No point in giving someone money to stay at home for the rest of their lives unless its a disability.

Gareth2011

EGAR wrote: »

I don't know which is why I asked.

So you don't know, I don't know - WHO can enlighten us?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html

wolfpawnat

I would do anything to not be in this position, but then there are those always be those who will say I chose this, I don't want to contribute, I want to live like this, barely getting by, worrying about birthdays/xmas.

I have a toddler and no xmas tree/decorations and will finally be able to get his present (yes one singular present that will have to be from both Santa and his parents!)

But sure not to worry. Many of the employed know me better than I do apparently!!!! :rolleyes:

counterlock

Robdude wrote: »

Personally - I think everyone on the dole (at least, every able-bodied person) should be required to perform 20 hours of community service each week in order to get their payments.

A lot of people on the dole complain that they feel worthless. This would give them some sense of purpose. And lord knows, there are plenty of jobs to be done. Some of it could even be considered valuable training for when these people return to the work-force.

Your balance and reasonable opinion has no home in AH

Your right though. You should be obliged to do something to improve your local community if you are not contributing taxable income. Lord knows, it might just make life a bit better in this country

LighterGuy

Too many people get a hard time for being on the dole!

Im on it 2 years. Living with my dad. I am on about 262 euro a week cause I also get rent allowance cause i say i am living with my friends brother. What you want me to be a 100 a week? :rolleyes:

Now, lets see who actually reads this bit thats hidden. Cause I am actually joking. lol. But your blood was boiling for a second tho, right? lol.

Overheal

bigneacy wrote: »

None if your business what he does with his dole payment. Would you prefer he lived hand to mouth weekly and stayed on the live register?

If someone chooses to spend €18 a week on beans and bread and save the other €170 it's absolutely no concern of yours.

He saved what he could and got himself back on his feet. Fair play to him, he made sure he is no longer a burden to the state. Your attitude stinks.

Yeah no sh!t, he took your money and left the country with it.

billybudd

I begrudge the fact i dont begrudge.

Millicent

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah no sh!t, he took your money and left the country with it.

Really, it was specifically that poster's money? Have the Gardaí been informed?

Overheal

Millicent wrote: »

Really, it was specifically that poster's money? Have the Gardaí been informed?

Getting really pedantic aren't we? He took tax dollars and gave the state or the taxpayer back nothing in return.

Squaredude

Hate being on the dole.Hopefully be able to get some sort of a job out of the course i'm doing and get off the dole.

Millicent

Overheal wrote: »

Getting really pedantic aren't we? He took tax dollars and gave the state or the taxpayer back nothing in return.

I thought we were just engaging in mutual hyperbole for the craic there. He took PRSI Euros (just to be really pedantic), managed to impressively save enough to emigrate when there are 450,000 vying for jobs, and now is no longer a strain on public resources. What exactly is your argument here? That he should have stayed on the dole because he wasn't entitled to use his ingenuity, available resources and ambition to emigrate and find a career for himself?

Spunge

Overheal wrote: »

Getting really pedantic aren't we? He took tax dollars and gave the state or the taxpayer back nothing in return.

his life's not over, he may be able to comeback and secure employment here with his new found experience. And in between that time he will have cost the taxpayer nothing.

bebostunnah

I dont know why dole scroungers arent made to farm WoW gold

Triangla

Saving 20 a week for two years would give you over 2,000. Enough for cheap ticket to Oz plus 1k starting off money. Very doable savings wise.

I've never been on the dole but don't begrudge those that are. Sure there are some wasters out there but you have that in every walk of life.

Of course the dole shouldn't be too high but it shouldn't have people just scraping by either.

If someone decides to spend every penny of their dole in marks and Spencers buying gourmet food that's their own business. If they decide to cut back, save what they can and sacrifice a bit to save and emigrate that's their business.

I say fair play to the person that did that, must have been tough scraping the money together over the two years.

padd b1975

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah no sh!t, he took your money and left the country with it.

The air freshner market collapsed on his departure.

padd b1975

fat__tony wrote: »

Its twats like those you have described which make me very glad not to be living in the country anymore.

People like that show the country up for the dump that it is.

Says the guy still posting on a largely Irish internet forum.

Just can't cut yourself off totally??

I've been back living the dole lifestyle now for the last fortnight.. Working 5 or 6 hours a week and living of some savings instead. I'm happy I'm only doing it for another week maybe cause I'm getting a bit lethargic. Still make it out of the house and do shlt but I bought a hammock for my bedroom and get stuck in it every morning for hours.

Johnny Foreigner

teaandtoast wrote: »

Being on welfare would have a bad effect on anyone.
For my experiences I found that people on welfare can be in one or in a combination of these situations:

a) lack skills and qualifications for the skills required jobs available in Ireland now
b) lack self confidence
c) have undiagnosed mental health/addiction/alcohol problems
d) Are in a trap they don't know how to get out of or don't have the knowledge, resources and support available to them that they can acess, that can be necessary to enable them to towards education, training and employment
e) on welfare because it is the only way to survive based on their circumstances
f) Are temporarily on welfare while trying and planning to take the next step in their life employment or emigration
g) Are at risk of suffering depression and developing a mental illness
h) Can be afriad to get out of their comfort zone of the security of welfare because it takes a lot of emotionally and psycholgically to try to get a job and they fear they will be knock down even further when rejected so many times.

I think you can simply categorise people on he dole into the following 2 groups:
1. Those who want to work, but can't get a job due to the recession.
2. Those who do not want to work.

Johnny Foreigner

Faith+1 wrote: »

Me from Nigeria, Free Money, House and Car. Love this Country, Love the Irish.

That's not fair comment.
I wouldn't exclude the rest of West Africa.

Overheal

Millicent wrote: »

I thought we were just engaging in mutual hyperbole for the craic there. He took PRSI Euros (just to be really pedantic), managed to impressively save enough to emigrate when there are 450,000 vying for jobs, and now is no longer a strain on public resources. What exactly is your argument here? That he should have stayed on the dole because he wasn't entitled to use his ingenuity, available resources and ambition to emigrate and find a career for himself?

more that I reckoned the point was for dolees to return to employment to keep the tax machine greased up - but I get your point.

Johnny Foreigner

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

I think you can simply categorise people on he dole into the following 2 groups:
1. Those who want to work, but can't get a job due to the recession.
2. Those who do not want to work.

You forgot no3. People who don't want to work but have the recession as an excuse now.

BillyMitchel

bryaner wrote: »

Pure sh!t, no money, selling anything thats not nailed down to get some pressies for the lads for Christmas, old clothes and no new ones on the horizon, mortgage arrears (awaits no one forced you to get a mortgage brigade) canceled sky, went off the smokes (good thing I know).

Afraid to answer the door, feeling of self loathing, not opening envelopes any more etc etc..

Sound tough. Chin up and hopefully 2012 will be better for you.

Recent graduate, same story no jobs went on the dole for about 6 months saved and came to Korea and worked.. Going home early Feb though and probably back on it and even worse back to the parents at 30 years of age. Ireland is a pretty grim place at the moment.

melekalikimaka

Deleted User wrote: »

You forgot no3. People who don't want to work but have the recession as an excuse now.

also no.4 those who find now they are on the dole that its not worth it working, especially for minimum wage, cos 'they're better off on the dole'

bryaner

melekalikimaka wrote: »

also no.4 those who find now they are on the dole that its not worth it working, especially for minimum wage, cos 'they're better off on the dole'

How would I be better off on the dole than on minimum wage? €93.60 dole minimum wage €300, even if I was on the top rate of €188.00 I'd still be €112.00 better off..

Captain McDuck

I think all people, regardless of circumstance, who are on the dole are scrounging scumbags who should be taken out in front of their loved ones, raped and then shot in the face.

Mod:
Idiot troll banned.

melekalikimaka

bryaner wrote: »

How would I be better off on the dole than on minimum wage? €93.60 dole minimum wage €300, even if I was on the top rate of €188.00 I'd still be €112.00 better off..

travel expenses/ work clothes etc etc, then benefits

bryaner

melekalikimaka wrote: »

travel expenses/ work clothes etc etc, then benefits

Work clothes? I think you'll find that most on minimum wage have them supplied i.e a uniform of some description, travel expenses none as I'd cycle anywhere within a 30 kilometer radius, and benefits I get none..