What planet is Noonan living on?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Tipp Man

V_Moth wrote: »

I think you are failing to see the point being made by some posters here regarding emigration - it is not good. Unfortunately Noonan's make it out that he regards it as "something the young people do".

Ultimately he (or his PR handlers) just doesn't seem to realise that exporting Ireland's most educated people now and in the future will do absolutely nothing to improve the countries chances of economic recovery.

Funny the same thing was said in the 1980's (when 2 of my sisters emigrated) when emigration was also huge and yet the 1990's was probably the best period ever for the Irish economy. Amazing

Regarding the "something the young people do" - lets be realistic here - of course it is. Even in the "good" times thousands of young and/or newly graduated Irish went travelling - for a while it was the thing to do after Uni, or after a couple of years work. It is most definately not a new phenomen.

the major difference now to say 5-10 ago is that there is much less options available now

Biggins

conorhal wrote: »

Wow. It took FF 14yrs to reach the levels of arrogance, delusion and denial that FG seem to have managed to acheive in a mere 10 months!..... /slow hand clap.

With an absolute, must be(?) record breaking amount of u-turns by them in less that a year?
(See my site: www.unitedpeople.ie for list)

conorhal wrote: »

I presume that we can now expect the usual statement on RTE from Noonan about 'comments taken out of context' etc....

If they mention it at all!
Seeing as others will, I suppose they will have to eventually.

Tipp Man

Biggins wrote: »

The exposing of such a clear possible error of judgement should never be done in half measures.
To do so I feel, allows such silly people to slip away with their possible daftness - only to possibly continue in the same vein?

Apologies to you if my exposing his possible daftness to as much people as possible, offends you.

P.S.
Some of the quotes were in fact to aid you in showing actual numbers that have left.

I know there are thousands leaving so no need for you to highlight it

Biggins

Tipp Man wrote: »

I know there are thousands leaving so no need for you to highlight it

You might know it and absolutely fair enough.
Others however might additionally be interested as to actual numbers.

Bloodly hell, you try to be helpful, give additional data and you get shot down for it!
Unreal!

This section likes to deal in accuracy - not just relying on generalisation most of the time.
If I can aid that - I try.
Pardon ruddy me!

tayto lover

What Noonan's statement does tell us is how far removed he and his likes are from the ordinary people of Ireland. In a country where people are supposed to be treated as equal statements like this show up the chasm that actually exists between the "haves" and the "have nots".
His children who left, not because they had to, would have no problem returning and getting everything handed to them from their rich daddy with his bond-holdings and his land and wealth. The ordinary emigrant would get it hard to muster the cost of a flight home for a funeral or a visit. I know that first-hand.
People should make a point of remembering that statement at the next election.
Meanwhile Noonan is purring like a spoilt cat after his Troika masters patted his back for victimising the same people he is now insulting.

folan

sounds like hes trying to save face

People dont leave Ireland cause we cant generate employment for them, its cause they want to see the world.

while this bs may work for his international plan, its definatly a massive kick in the teeth to all those who have been looking for jobs and have left in pure exasperation.

Tefral

I wrote him an email

Mr. Noonan,

I am writing to you to outline my disgust at your comments in the media that it is a “lifestyle choice” to move abroad and not actually for work.

I am a Limerick man, I grew up in the City from which you live, I was educated in Ardscoil Ris and then in Limerick IT. I graduated from Limerick IT in 2008 with a Degree in Quantity Surveying. I moved to Dublin to get work as Limerick didn’t have any openings for Quantity Surveyors at the time.

I spent 3.5 years working for a Company in Dublin (a year of this being on a 3 day week). I paid my numerous taxes into the economy and in the end I was given a simple choice by my Boss: move to the office in London or be let go. Instead of joining the dole queue I packed up my life and moved to London as there are no jobs I can do in Ireland.

I’m afraid to say you seem very out of touch with reality. I voted for Fine Gael in the last elections in the hope you and your party would stir things up and in particular I was hoping your very hard attitude would give us something to stand behind. However reading comments about moving on for a “lifestyle choice” is absurd.

I am over here in London using Skype to keep in touch with my family and my partner and everybody I know. I don’t want to be using my education for which the Irish paid for to be contributing to another country taxes. I’m over here putting down hours looking at ways I can make my relationships work. I spend a fortune trying to fly home as often as I can.

I am only one of many. I have looked into jobs at lower pay and all that, however there is a glass ceiling and a glass floor. All I get is “Why would I employ you when you will leave at the first opportunity to get a job in your degree discipline” I got a truck licence in the hope it would be a fall back; however I'm met with the above line. I had no choice but to move away, as bankers and incompetent politicians ruined my country – our country.

I have many friends who have gone as far as Australia and Canada to get work; they go over on Working Holiday Visas in the hope of getting “sponsored” and can start a life there. Many have to return to Ireland, but most if not all go back under another form of visa in the hope of spending just one more year working, because “There is nothing to go back to”. The working holiday visa is the cheapest way of getting there, many are not Holidaying at all contrary to your belief.

Fine Gael are doomed to failure if you do not pull your head out of the sand and realise it’s not a lifestyle choice, its NO CHOICE. Fianna Fail had their head in the sand and look where that got them.. very few were re-elected and in the end the EU made a scapegoat out of us. If you fall asleep at the wheel of a car, then you are more than likely going to get killed.

I would like a reply to this email from a fellow Limerick Person, but I don’t hold much hope with an attitude like that.

Regards,

Jonathan Cronin
(An Irish man abroad because I had NO Choice.)

jbkenn

I read this utterance from Mickey Noonan as news came through that my nephew who "lifestyle choiced" to the West Coast of the U.S.A has been taken seriously ill, his Mom is in Dublin airport awaiting the arrival of his Dad, who has been forced by lack of work to "lifestyle choice" to mainland Europe, so they can join up and fly to the U.K. to get a flight to the U.S. to be at their sons bedside.

All I can say Mickey, as one of your constituents, is, you have proven, if proof were ever needed, that you are nothing more than a jumped up County Councillor from Gouldavoher, with a mindset to match.

Sunnyisland

conorhal wrote: »

Wow. It took FF 14yrs to reach the levels of arrogance, delusion and denial that FG seem to have managed to acheive in a mere 10 months!..... /slow hand clap.

I presume that we can now expect the usual statement on RTE from Noonan about 'comments taken out of context' etc....[/QUOTE]



Michael noonan said on rte news that he was taken out of context and he said that some people leave Ireland etc etc .

D1stant

[QUOTE=
Michael noonan said on rte news that he was taken out of context etc .[/QUOTE]


Oh. thats ok then. Phew

Biggins

realies wrote: »

conorhal wrote: »

Wow. It took FF 14yrs to reach the levels of arrogance, delusion and denial that FG seem to have managed to acheive in a mere 10 months!..... /slow hand clap.

I presume that we can now expect the usual statement on RTE from Noonan about 'comments taken out of context' etc....

Michael noonan said on rte news that he was taken out of context and he said that some people leave Ireland etc etc .

D1stant wrote: »

Oh. thats ok then. Phew

Indeed, sure we can trust him!
Of course if there is a recording of the interview, no doubt he will ask for a copy and produce it.

Pride Fighter

He has form with this in the past. He was very cold to the victims of blood tainting in the mid 90's as minister for health. You'd think he'd learn his lesson.

Biggins

Pride Fighter wrote: »

He has form with this in the past. He was very cold to the victims of blood tainting in the mid 90's as minister for health. You'd think he'd learn his lesson.

Its not as if there isn't enough teachers around the Dail to teach him!

tayto lover

You just cannot hide arrogance, it always shines through in the end.
Noonan has it in spades.

Sierra Oscar

Very insensitive comment to make, although Noonan does have a tendency to be blunt with his opinions . . . he certainly does not shy away from letting them out of the bag!

Sand

Noonan gets his speaking points from the DoF civil servants. They told him to say emigration was motivated by a youthful desire, not by the failures of the DoFs policies. Much as they told Mary Coughlan the same thing. The common thread between Noonans and Coughlans equally derranged comments in that they were being advised on what to say by the civil service.

BlaasForRafa

Tipp Man wrote: »

Funny the same thing was said in the 1980's (when 2 of my sisters emigrated) when emigration was also huge and yet the 1990's was probably the best period ever for the Irish economy. Amazing

Rubbish, pure and utter rubbish. I assume that you are just taking the role of opposing for oppositions sake on this thread as what you are saying is factually incorrect. The 80's was a decade of MASSIVE unemployment and of massive emigration.

Through the 90's the economy improved and through that decade and the early to mid 2000's we had irish people immigrating back to this country because of the employment opportunities.

Now that massive unemployment is back we have massive emigration. It dosen't take a genius to figure out the link between the two but Noonan seems to be more concerned with spoofing bulls--t.

Liam Byrne

Michael Noonan wrote:

A lot of people want to get off the island,”

Yes we do. We want to go live in an ethical country where greed and lack of ethics and lack of common sense aren't rewarded.

****wit doesn't cover this. It was horrendous the time some FF ****head said it recently and it's horrendous now.

mandrake04

Tipp Man wrote: »

I wonder are the people who have emigrated as up in arms about this as the people who are still in Ireland??

Seems to me he is right - the lads n lasses who have gone to Australia for instance are nearly all having a ball and doing well for themselves. Given the option, in my circle of friends and acquintances anyway, very few of them have any inclination of coming back to Ireland to live. Same goes for a few lads i know in Canada

To be fair there its not that easy to actually stay in Oz once the Holiday visa runs out, sure there are huge figures of young Irish people (25000+) in Australia maybe a few thousand might qualify for sponsorship but the rest days are numbered.

2010/2011 was the mass exodus, 2012/2013 will be mass return.

casandra

How UNEQUAL is society when politicians are given soft interviews and air time to ( spout ) express their views at will when the CITIZENS of the state have no immediate FORUM OF REPLY. Would it be possible for every radio/tv station to have a revolving panel - recognised by the government - of ordinary people to comment and agree or disagree with these comments -- GIVE THE POPULACE A VOICE

Cookie_Monster

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh it's a ''lifestyle'' choice, people aren't moving because of a lack of jobs, they're moving because overall it's shít here, much much better. :rolleyes:

that's why we went and left good jobs in IRL to do...

View

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes we do. We want to go live in an ethical country where greed and lack of ethics and lack of common sense aren't rewarded.

Even the best countries don't meet those criteria and many countries would - hard and all as it is to believe - consider us towards the top (of the better half) of the league table.

View

Noonan's comments come close to echoing the remarks of the late Brian Lenihan Senior in the '80s - "We can't all live on a small island" - which were made also while discussing emigration.

thebman

Sand wrote: »

Noonan gets his speaking points from the DoF civil servants. They told him to say emigration was motivated by a youthful desire, not by the failures of the DoFs policies. Much as they told Mary Coughlan the same thing. The common thread between Noonans and Coughlans equally derranged comments in that they were being advised on what to say by the civil service.

I guess it is just easier to blame Noonan than realise the above is probably more accurate.

jank

RichardAnd wrote: »

Perhaps but that doesn't change the fact that Noonan has made an outrageously inaccurate statement.

Many older people in this country seem to think that all the young get up to is socialising and looking for a good time. Noonan's remark demonstrates this wonderfully.

In fairness from what I see here with my own eyes ALOT of Irish people are here just on the piss. Now not all are like this but the vast majority of Irish people leave Ireland on Temp visas. These are not premanent and visa's run out in 12/24 months. Eventually these people will have to return home.

Some of course will get permanent status the majority will not. It was a foot in mouth moment for Noonan no doubt but the faux outrage is pointless. There was some good news yesterday regarding the meeting with the troika, yet this item dominated the headlines.

God, we love to be misserable dont we.

If someone gave Ireland a cheque for 100 billion euro we would probably complain that we have to go to the bank to lodge it and wait a few days for it to clear!

Im actually dreading going back for a visit in April, think all the negativity which im gladly not subjected to here on a daily basis will overwhelm me.

*Note to self, must listen to Joe Duffy to climatise*

shanered

Absolutely deisgracefully out of touch statement.
Its this mindset that makes people give up on this country and leave, this arrogence!

batistuta9

I think there's some truth in what he's saying a lot of people who are heading off are going to travel/have a better lifestyle than they would in ireland.

not everyone who's left has done so because they don't see a future for themselves here, obviously some are but i think some of the people have gone as they see this as the best time to do it - people have left jobs to go to australia - something people wouldn't have done a few years ago but will do it now because they see everyone else going. That maybe a minority of people but it's happening

JustinDee

Quoted out of context. Look at the entire reply or watch his explanation on yesterday's 6 o'clock news.

As usual, anonymous outrage-addicts go in with guns blazing and heads down.

jank

batistuta9 wrote: »

I think there's some truth in what he's saying a lot of people who are heading off are going to travel/have a better lifestyle than they would in ireland.

not everyone who's left has done so because they don't see a future for themselves here, obviously some are but i think some of the people have gone as they see this as the best time to do it - people have left jobs to go to australia - something people wouldn't have done a few years ago but will do it now because they see everyone else going. That maybe a minority of people but it's happening

I left a permanent role in 2008 to go to NZ before all the $hit hit the fan. Some people genuinely do want to see the world even though there may be jobs at home. I work in IT and from what I hear at home getting a job wouldnt be too much of an issue. A lot of it is a personal choice. There are lots of germans, swedes, chinese, brazilians and a **** load of french people here too from what I see. Not all those economies are in the tank! The world is a lot more mobile, high skilled labour is constantly in flux. So yes, what Nonan said about "young" people is kinda right only that irish people like to be outraged.