What planet is Noonan living on?

Biggins · 19-01-2012 02:22PM #1

Noonan: Young emigrants ‘not driven away by unemployment’

MICHAEL NOONAN HAS said that most emigration by young Irish people is a “free choice of lifestyle” and played down the impact of the country’s unemployment rate on people moving abroad.

“It’s a small island. A lot of people want to get off the island,” the Finance Minister told the media at a briefing on the fifth quarterly review of Ireland’s bailout programme by the Troika of the European Commission, ECB and IMF.
He pointed to the experience of his own family saying that three of his five children are living abroad and that in their case it was a lifestyle choice to move away from Ireland.

The country’s unemployment rate is currently 14.3 per cent with over 180,000 classified as long-term claimants on the Live Register. A recent survey found that four-in-ten people saw no future for themselves in Ireland.
But Noonan said that unemployment was not driving emigration: “It’s not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

Figures published last December showed that over 76,000 people had left the country in the year to April 2011 – an increase of nearly 17 per cent – with over half of those being Irish.

“There are always young people coming and going from Ireland,” Noonan also said while adding that the country needed to ensure that people leaving were well enough educated to seek employment abroad.
“What we have to make sure is that our young people have the best possible education, right up to third level,” he said.

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonan-young-emigrants-not-driven-away-by-unemployment-331911-Jan2012/?new_comment=1#comment-222541

Is the man deluded?
I've seen some stupid statements in my time - this is up there with the daftest of them!

MagicMarker · 19-01-2012 02:25PM

Oh it's a ''lifestyle'' choice, people aren't moving because of a lack of jobs, they're moving because overall it's shít here, much much better. :rolleyes:

steelcityblues · 19-01-2012 02:40PM

A real 'let them eat cake' moment on our hands here.

wes · 19-01-2012 02:42PM

Thats an astonishing comment to make. The man seems to be deluded.

Biggins · 19-01-2012 02:43PM

Expect some SERIOUS back grovelling within an hour from Dublin!

Dirk Gently · 19-01-2012 02:49PM

By lifestyle choice does he mean stay an have no future and no job opportunities or go and leave your family and take a chance on surviving on the other side of the world? anyone and everyone I know has gone by necessity rather than choice. I know a few who are even illegal in other countries because it's still a better option than coming home. I know people who have come home and regret not chancing staying on illegal in another country because there is nothing here for them when they got home. Many have come home after a year or two hoping things were better but instead found jobs have been replaced by jobsbridge and cant believe the lack of options to make a living here. Great that Noonan can use his own scientific poll of his own 3 family members to represent the nation accurately.

Same old safety valve for Irish governments, let the youth emigrate. Fantastic use of tax payers money making sure they're educated enough to contribute economically to other economies once they leave college. Good to see the blueshirts following in the arrogant delusional footsteps of their sister party Fianna Fail.

V_Moth · 19-01-2012 02:50PM

So he is actually saying the Irish State is spending millions/billions/squadrillions to educate kids who will contribute no future taxes? And not even thinking of doing everything to ensure they remain (voluntarily) in Ireland?

Makes sense...

I suppose it comes from the old mindset that emigration gets rid of all the "non-conformists" who could possibly change things and upset the apple cart for those at the top.

Noffles · 19-01-2012 02:50PM

Haaaaaagh... the stupid deluded cnut

steelcityblues · 19-01-2012 02:52PM

V_Moth wrote: »

So he is actually saying the Irish State is spending millions/billions/squadrillions to educate kids who will contribute no future taxes? And not even thinking of doing everything to ensure they remain (voluntarily) in Ireland?

Makes sense...

I suppose it comes from the old mindset that emigration gets rid of all the "non-conformists" who could possibly change things and upset the apple cart for those at the top.

That is exactly why we still have the same 'big three' parties (FF/FG/LAB) today, as the brighter minds leave early.

force eleven · 19-01-2012 02:53PM

Well he said all talk of a second bailout was 'ludicrous' last week and yet yesterday he left the door open. He was always a far better opposition politician than one in government.In power he often showed poor political judgement - remember the hep C blood transfusion scandal of a few years ago? And his abject failure as leader of Fine Gael

patwicklow · 19-01-2012 02:58PM

What a statement to make what planet is this bog man on!
just goes to show whats running this country to the ground.
just gets worse by the day with this shower in power were will it end.
and get are lovely Ireland back

RichardAnd · 19-01-2012 02:59PM

This really shows how out of touch the ruling classes are with young people.

Dannyboy83 · 19-01-2012 03:08PM

Didn't Mary Hannafin come out with this exact statement last year?

CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

dlofnep · 19-01-2012 03:10PM

What a pretentious ****. Many of my friends have moved to Australia because they spent months and months searching for work in Ireland, and couldn't find it. Most of them were in trades, which have been hit hard.

Dannyboy83 · 19-01-2012 03:11PM

Sorry, it was Mary Coughlan

http://www.globalirish.ie/2010/thats-what-young-people-are-entitled-to-do-tanaiste-on-emigration/
Equally we have a lot of people – young people- who have decided they will go to other parts of the world to gain experience and I think the type of emigration that we have -
Questioner: But your government was supposed to have ended that, the whole cycle of Irish having to leave Ireland.
It’s the type of people that have left have gone on the basis that – some of them, fine, they want to enjoy themselves. That’s what young people are entitled to do.

phil1nj · 19-01-2012 03:17PM

Different party, different TD, same sentiment. Sigh

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2009/0110/1231515452848.html

irishh_bob · 19-01-2012 03:41PM

Biggins wrote: »

Expect some SERIOUS back grovelling within an hour from Dublin!

NO , thier wont be any retractions , the young male vote has no political muscle in this country , no one sees them as vulnerable in anyway shape or form

Biggins · 19-01-2012 04:02PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

NO , thier wont be any retractions , the young male vote has no political muscle in this country , no one sees them as vulnerable in anyway shape or form

But the parents of those that left, do?

32,000 approx alone last year, their offspring heading to England!

The numbers emigrating to Britain alone soared by 56pc as over 16,000 people travelled across the Irish Sea to find work in the UK 2010/11 tax year.

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=32195

HellFireClub · 19-01-2012 04:03PM

I can see that one sticking lol, "where were you last night?", "I was on Planet Noonan!"

Tipp Man · 19-01-2012 04:25PM

I wonder are the people who have emigrated as up in arms about this as the people who are still in Ireland??

Seems to me he is right - the lads n lasses who have gone to Australia for instance are nearly all having a ball and doing well for themselves. Given the option, in my circle of friends and acquintances anyway, very few of them have any inclination of coming back to Ireland to live. Same goes for a few lads i know in Canada

RichardAnd · 19-01-2012 04:29PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

I wonder are the people who have emigrated as up in arms about this as the people who are still in Ireland??

Seems to me he is right - the lads n lasses who have gone to Australia for instance are nearly all having a ball and doing well for themselves. Given the option, in my circle of friends and acquintances anyway, very few of them have any inclination of coming back to Ireland to live. Same goes for a few lads i know in Canada

Perhaps but that doesn't change the fact that Noonan has made an outrageously inaccurate statement.

Many older people in this country seem to think that all the young get up to is socialising and looking for a good time. Noonan's remark demonstrates this wonderfully.

Biggins · 19-01-2012 04:45PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

I wonder are the people who have emigrated as up in arms about this as the people who are still in Ireland??

Seems to me he is right - the lads n lasses who have gone to Australia for instance are nearly all having a ball and doing well for themselves. Given the option, in my circle of friends and acquintances anyway, very few of them have any inclination of coming back to Ireland to live. Same goes for a few lads i know in Canada

An investigation by the Irish Independent has found a 50pc surge in the number of emigrants heading for Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Britain, the US and Germany — up from 46,000 when we carried out a similar survey a year ago.

The numbers emigrating to Britain alone soared by 56pc as over 16,000 people travelled across the Irish Sea to find work in the UK 2010/11 tax year.

Figures obtained from the UK Department of Work and Pensions show the flow continued throughout 2011 with over 300 Irish people a week applying for national insurance numbers to allow them work there, the vast majority of whom were aged 18 to 34.

That department noted this surge was because “the Irish economy has recently experienced one of the sharpest recessions in the eurozone”.

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=32195

Tipp Man · 19-01-2012 04:50PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

Many older people in this country seem to think that all the young get up to is socialising and looking for a good time. Noonan's remark demonstrates this wonderfully.

I don't think it demonstrates it at all. Where i think he is inaccurate is when he says "it is not being driven by unemployment" Clearly some of it is

Also, have you been to OZ or USA or UK where young Irish have descended on mass?? There is plenty of socialising done let me tell you. (and before everybody goes nuts - there is nothing wrong with that. That's a part of what being young and travelling is about)

Thousands of Irish have done very well for themselves in UK, USA and OZ and good luck to them - I'm sure thousands more will do equally well in these countries in the future

Biggins · 19-01-2012 04:55PM

Update:

Noonan’s emigration comments branded ‘a disgrace’ by opposition

MICHAEL NOONAN HAS been heavily criticised for his comments related to the amount of young people emigrating from Ireland earlier today with Sinn Féin saying his comments were “a disgrace”.

At a press conference reacting the Troika’s fifth review of the bailout programme, Noonan commented that emigration of young people “is a free choice of lifestyle” and said “there are always young people coming and going from Ireland.”

Noonan played down the belief that Ireland’s unemployment of over 14 per cent was contributing to young people leaving the country but his comments have been criticised by opposition parties.

Sinn Féin’s finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty said that Noonan’s comments were “deeply insulting” in light of figures which showed the majority of people leaving Ireland are now Irish, directly as a result of the economic situation.

“Michael Noonan’s comments are a disgrace. Six thousand people are leaving Ireland every month, the overwhelming majority seeking work in America, Australia, and elsewhere,” Doherty said.

“The overwhelming majority have been forced to leave because of the lack of employment and the belief they have no future in this country.”
Fianna Fáil’s spokesperson on finance, Michael McGrath told TheJournal.ie he disagreed with Noonan’s comments noting that economic data compared with emigration data showed that the number of people leaving Ireland was related to the economic downturn.

“In great majority of cases young people emigrate because they don’t see an opportunity at home. In the last two or three years it’s forced emigration,” he said.
“Anyone who witnessed scenes at airports around country at the end of Christmas would realise very quickly that this wasn’t a lifestyle choice. These people want to get on with their lives and pursue opportunities and they can’t do it in Ireland.”

It is not the first time a senior government minister has come in for criticism for comments about emigration.
In February 2010, then Tánaiste Mary Coughlan told BBC television that some emigration was “not a bad thing” as young people were leaving to “gain experience”.

At the time she was accused of “losing the plot” by Fine Gael TD Damien English. English did not return a request for comment on Noonan’s remarks at the time of publication.

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonans-emigration-comments-branded-a-disgrace-by-opposition-332065-Jan2012/

Tipp Man · 19-01-2012 04:57PM

Biggins wrote: »

Update:

Noonan’s emigration comments branded ‘a disgrace’ by opposition

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonans-emigration-comments-branded-a-disgrace-by-opposition-332065-Jan2012/

Welll if SF are saying it then Noonan must be an absolute disgrace:rolleyes:

Biggins · 19-01-2012 05:00PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Welll if SF are saying it then Noonan must be an absolute disgrace:rolleyes:

You know that saying "A rose by any other name is still a rose" ?

Well sometimes an idiot by any other name is still an idiot - despite who says it?

Tipp Man · 19-01-2012 05:00PM

Biggins wrote: »

http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=32195

Are those quotes meant to prove something?

I'm not denying a lot of people (young in particular) are leaving - I just don't think Noonan has said anything too dramatic to warrant you to post this in Politics and Afterhours (where of course it is going to get a absolute onslaught - was that not enough for you??)

Biggins · 19-01-2012 05:07PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are those quotes meant to prove something?

I'm not denying a lot of people (young in particular) are leaving - I just don't think Noonan has said anything too dramatic to warrant you to post this in Politics and Afterhours (where of course it is going to get a absolute onslaught - was that not enough for you??)

The exposing of such a clear possible error of judgement should never be done in half measures.
To do so I feel, allows such silly people to slip away with their possible daftness - only to possibly continue in the same vein?

Apologies to you if my exposing his possible daftness to as much people as possible, offends you.

P.S.
Some of the quotes were in fact to aid you in showing actual numbers that have left.

V_Moth · 19-01-2012 05:07PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are those quotes meant to prove something?

I'm not denying a lot of people (young in particular) are leaving - I just don't think Noonan has said anything too dramatic to warrant you to post this in Politics and Afterhours (where of course it is going to get a absolute onslaught - was that not enough for you??)

I think you are failing to see the point being made by some posters here regarding emigration - it is not good. Unfortunately Noonan's make it out that he regards it as "something the young people do".

Ultimately he (or his PR handlers) just doesn't seem to realise that exporting Ireland's most educated people now and in the future will do absolutely nothing to improve the countries chances of economic recovery.

Dannyboy83 · 19-01-2012 05:12PM

Tipp Man wrote: »

I just don't think Noonan has said anything too dramatic to warrant you to post this in Politics and Afterhours

Noonan wrote:

Mass emigration is not being driven by unemployment at home, it’s being driven by a desire to see another part of the world and live there.”

Does that clarify it?

"A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others.
— Fyodor Dostoevsky

conorhal · 19-01-2012 05:13PM

Wow. It took FF 14yrs to reach the levels of arrogance, delusion and denial that FG seem to have managed to acheive in a mere 10 months!..... /slow hand clap.

I presume that we can now expect the usual statement on RTE from Noonan about 'comments taken out of context' etc....

What planet is Noonan living on?

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