Monaghan United withdraw from LoI

geeky

Oatesy23 wrote: »

We used to, but I believe RTE still pay the money to the FAI but they keep it now. We just lose money on the gate now like that stupidly timed Saturday afternoon game beween Rovers and Shams when we lost a lot on the gate.

Pardon my ignorance, but does any money flow direct from the FAI to the clubs or league?

dreamers75

geeky wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but does any money flow direct from the FAI to the clubs or league?

Prize money as above ^^ thats pretty much it. Some of us lucky to have decent sponsors, but Pats had no sponsor recently and kept a logo on the jersey for a season even tho we were not being paid too.



http://backpagefootball.com/best-fans-in-the-world-not-quite/42808/

kippy

The prize fund for the entire League is just over half the wages paid to JD, and when each team is charged 19K to enter, the league almost pays it's own prize funds.
This is all news to me and really highlights why clubs are going to the wall (as well as over paying wages in an environment where not enough people go to matches.

How much money do the FAI get in government grants and advertising? Where does it all go?
I assume clubs get grants as well and plenty money goes into more local events but it does look like the FAI care very little about the LoI

dreamers75

We get lotto grants but only for facilities. If it was spent on anything other we would be arrested. Not sure who got them this season, we didnt anyway.

Prize money was 235? a few years ago for the winner. totallel 459k one year irc.

Pighead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Spot on. A license should only be awarded if a club has demonsrated that they can fulfill their obligations over the course of a full season. And it should be in depth enough to seperate fact from fiction when it comes to club claims with respect to expected revenues...

That's pretty much it. Unfortunately clubs (including my own) are so obsessed with short term success they are blinkered to the inevitable consequences of their actions. Lessons are not being learnt. This stuff has been going on for years.

Dundalk have been waiting all season on an insurance claim payout which they expected to be a six figure sum. Got paid by the insurance companies last week and it was less than thirty grand.

Club were foolish to factor this unpaid insurance claim into the yearly budget while the FAI were foolish to say "Ah sure if you think you're getting over a hundred grand for the insurance payout we'll go along with that

geeky

dreamers75 wrote: »

Prize money as above ^^ thats pretty much it. Some of us lucky to have decent sponsors, but Pats had no sponsor recently and kept a logo on the jersey for a season even tho we were not being paid too.



http://backpagefootball.com/best-fans-in-the-world-not-quite/42808/

So, if I have this right, the FAI is taking the entry fees from clubs, distributing it in a way that massively favours the top teams, and essentially pocketing any TV money?

dreamers75

geeky wrote: »

So, if I have this right, the FAI is taking the entry fees from clubs, distributing it in a way that massively favours the top teams, and essentially pocketing any TV money?

Yeah pretty much.

We were supposed to get 5k for every live game shown involving the home team. I will check i dont think Pats have been paid that in a while.

Oat23

Do cup finalists still pay for their medals?

What an organisation we have in charge. Looks like a few people in here are only seeing now what a joke the FAI are.

Francie Barrett

dreamers75 wrote: »

Yeah pretty much.

We were supposed to get 5k for every live game shown involving the home team. I will check i dont think Pats have been paid that in a while.

Are you sure? What is the point in showing matches on TV if a club won't see a penny?

dreamers75

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Are you sure? What is the point in showing matches on TV if a club won't see a penny?

To fill gaps in rtes schedule and they have to show games to keep the international matches.

Altho in fairness RTE they have shown more and more games every season. But if we aint getting paid for it, its to the clubs detriment.

Oat23

dreamers75 wrote: »

Altho in fairness RTE they have shown more and more games every season. But if we aint getting paid for it, its to the clubs detriment.

They are showing more games because it is part of the deal though. Lets be honest, they wouldn't care if they lost the rights to the league. They are only showing more games every year because they have to.

Next year they have to show a game every week, don't they?

monkey9

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Do cup finalists still pay for their medals?

What an organisation we have in charge. Looks like a few people in here are only seeing now what a joke the FAI are.

Ha!! That was a good one alright!!

Witchie

CSF wrote: »

This is absolutely disgraceful. This sort of thing shouldn't happen mid-season.

Yeah we should just have knuckled down not paid the players, gone bust and not paid any creditors, a much more responsible and kind thing to do.

It was done now so that the players and manager have time to get new teams in the transfer window.

geeky

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Do cup finalists still pay for their medals?

What an organisation we have in charge. Looks like a few people in here are only seeing now what a joke the FAI are.

Genuinely, it is news to me. I always had an attitude that the FAI was fairly useless, and that some clubs were not well run, but am only realising the sheer scale of it this season: I've gotten properly back into the LOI after a long absence trying to make a living!

I've zero experience as a player or coach, more of a business and journalism background, but at the risk of sounding disrespectful, it seems like the whole set-up is either really amateurish or downright corrupt (John Delaney earning more than all the league prize money put together....).

I'm quite fortunate in that Shamrock Rovers would be the local club, and I've been thinking of becoming a member for a bit now. From experience, does this result in any opportunity to make a difference? It would be a crying shame to lose live football in this country, but I don't want to just pump money into preserving a rotten system.

IamtheWalrus

Is it time to disband the LOI? It'll never be able to compete with overseas football and is lacking in real quality.

dreamers75

geeky wrote: »

I'm quite fortunate in that Shamrock Rovers would be the local club, and I've been thinking of becoming a member for a bit now. From experience, does this result in any opportunity to make a difference? It would be a crying shame to lose live football in this country, but I don't want to just pump money into preserving a rotten system.

The only connection between clubs and the FAI is we play in their league.

super_furry

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Is it time to disband the LOI? It'll never be able to compete with overseas football and is lacking in real quality.

Sure why not? I always thought those England jerseys were a lovely shade of white. We can all buy one, sing along with God Save the Queen and get behind 'our boys'.

You do realise that with no LOI there's no Irish national team right?

geeky

dreamers75 wrote: »

The only connection between clubs and the FAI is we play in their league.

Oh I know. But it would be nice to contribute towards the professional running of at least one club.

geeky

super_furry wrote: »

Sure why not? I always thought those England jerseys were a lovely shade of white. We can all buy one, sing along with God Save the Queen and get behind 'our boys'.

You do realise that with no LOI there's no Irish national team right?

In fairness, some people probably have less antipathy to the English FA than they do towards the FAI....

Gavin "shels"

dreamers75 wrote: »

stephen maher ‏@stephenmaher07
@RTEMNS @extratimenews the chairman is disgrace , nobody told Me

Bit harsher(sp?)

Either he missed the conversation but the Mons players have known their jobs were on a knife edge for a few weeks now.

dreamers75 wrote: »

Open to correction to but the league fees dont include the refs fees. usually around 1200 for a ref and 2 linesman, they obvisouly throw in the 4th official for free. (hence behind closed doors preseasons, you dont use real refs for them).

Addin security costs and you could make a loss on most matches.

Think you're right on the refs, and the Guards charge €190 per Guard per match (unless you've a deal struck with them as Shels do).

dreamers75 wrote: »

The only connection between clubs and the FAI is we play in their league.

...and abide by their rules!

IamtheWalrus

super_furry wrote: »

You do realise that with no LOI there's no Irish national team right?

But there's rarely any LOI players called up to the national side

applehunter

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

But there's rarely any LOI players called up to the national side

What age are you?

12

not1but4

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Spot on. A license should only be awarded if a club has demonsrated that they can fulfill their obligations over the course of a full season. And it should be in depth enough to seperate fact from fiction when it comes to club claims with respect to expected revenues...

In regard to Dundalk attendances have nose dived this season after our manager spent our budget of €6k p/w on 12 year olds, signed 3 left backs but no right backs and only one recognised winger (who never plays anyway) . Never mind the fact he spent €15k on transfer fees to Mervue for 3 players (two of which sit on the bench and one is absolutely shocking).

applehunter

This another bad day for the league.

Another season with the dreaded " * "

All in all a **** couple of weeks for soccer in Ireland.

Love if someone could dig up the radio interview John Delaney gave when the FAI took over the league.

LuckyLloyd

super_furry wrote: »

Sure why not? I always thought those England jerseys were a lovely shade of white. We can all buy one, sing along with God Save the Queen and get behind 'our boys'.

You do realise that with no LOI there's no Irish national team right?

Does it have to be a professional / semi pro league the likes of which we have now? Does anyone know where in the UEFA rulebook this rule is? Would like to see it as it's written.

Francie Barrett

super_furry wrote: »

Last season it cost €19,000 to enter a team in the Airtricity Premier League and the 'prize money was as following.

1.€100,000
2.€45,000
3.€25,000
4.€15,000
5.€10,000
6.€7,500
7.€6,000
8.€5,000
9.€5,000
10.€5,000

Only the top three teams made their money back. It's no wonder Monaghan cited the entry fee as one of their main reasons, but it's all alright as long as that pisshead Delaney can pocket his €400,000 and throw a fee slabs of free beer around the place.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2010/0305/261888-airtricityleague/

Prize fund breakdown 2010
Premier Division
Position
1 €200,000
2 €100,000
3 €75,000
4 €60,000
5 €50,000
6 €47,000
7 €45,000
8 €42,000
9 €41,000
10 €40,000


First Division
1 €50,000
2 €20,000
3 €13,000
4 €11,000
5 €10,000
6 €9,750
7 €9,000
8 €8,500
9 €8,000
10 €7,500
11 €7,250
12 €7,000


That's a massive cut in prize money, I can see why many clubs might now be struggling. I guess the cost of the Aviva stadium is what is really killing the FAI right now. Not only that, but I believe their revenue is well down on previous years with the recession.

Oat23

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Does it have to be a professional / semi pro league the likes of which we have now? Does anyone know where in the UEFA rulebook this rule is? Would like to see it as it's written.

I was looking for the same thing after it was mentioned above but I could not see it. Hopefully someone can link to it.

LuckyLloyd

Oatesy23 wrote: »

I was looking for the same thing after it was mentioned above but I could not see it. Hopefully someone can link to it.

Gets thrown around this forum a lot but I've never actually seen the section of the UEFA rulebook that covers it...

Francie Barrett

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Does it have to be a professional / semi pro league the likes of which we have now? Does anyone know where in the UEFA rulebook this rule is? Would like to see it as it's written.

You have to have a national league to field an international team, however, that league can be entirely amateur.

See for example the San Marino league, no wages, no prize money, no thing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campionato_Sammarinese_di_Calcio

All the players that take part in it are exclusively amateur. However, there is a semi-professional club based in San Marino that participates outside of the amateur league and in the Italian league, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino_Calcio

LuckyLloyd

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You have to have a national league to field an international team, however, that league can be entirely amateur.

See for example the San Marino league, no wages, no prize money, no thing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campionato_Sammarinese_di_Calcio

All the players that take part in it are exclusively amateur. However, there is a semi-professional club based in San Marino that participates outside of the amateur league and in the Italian league, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino_Calcio

As such, if the LOI disbanded tomorrow, the FAI could keep the national team by spending a few thousand inviting Leinster / Munster Senior League type sides to play a competition over a few weeks and call it the National League.

Excellent, that bit of bollix laid to rest.

stovelid

geeky wrote: »

From experience, does this result in any opportunity to make a difference?

Yes. Like anything, as much as you want it to be.

Dub XV

Gavin shels wrote: »

Either he missed the conversation but the Mons players have known their jobs were on a knife edge for a few weeks now.

That may be the case Gavin but in fairness there is a huge difference between knowing your job is threatened and waking up one morning to find it's gone......via Twitter.

dreamers75

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You have to have a national league to field an international team, however, that league can be entirely amateur.

See for example the San Marino league, no wages, no prize money, no thing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campionato_Sammarinese_di_Calcio

All the players that take part in it are exclusively amateur. However, there is a semi-professional club based in San Marino that participates outside of the amateur league and in the Italian league, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino_Calcio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As such, if the LOI disbanded tomorrow, the FAI could keep the national team by spending a few thousand inviting Leinster / Munster Senior League type sides to play a competition over a few weeks and call it the National League.

Excellent, that bit of bollix laid to rest.

Thats some cracking journalism lads.....

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/01/80/54/03/1805403_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Sure once the FAI gives out licences to LSL clubs we can keep the National team.

Would be ****ing hilarious to see an LSL clubs finances

IamtheWalrus

applehunter wrote: »

What age are you?

12

You asked me a question... but you answered it

aliveandkicking

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You have to have a national league to field an international team, however, that league can be entirely amateur.

See for example the San Marino league, no wages, no prize money, no thing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campionato_Sammarinese_di_Calcio

All the players that take part in it are exclusively amateur. However, there is a semi-professional club based in San Marino that participates outside of the amateur league and in the Italian league, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino_Calcio

So the FAI could disband the current LOI and have an entirely amateur set up and in theory still have one or two semi pro/pro clubs competing in leagues outside the country :eek:

Zebra3

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I guess the cost of the Aviva stadium is what is really killing the FAI right now.

Plus overpaid CEO.

Francie Barrett

aliveandkicking wrote: »

So the FAI could disband the current LOI and have an entirely amateur set up and in theory still have one or two semi pro/pro clubs competing in leagues outside the country :eek:

I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.

LuckyLloyd

dreamers75 wrote: »

Thats some cracking journalism lads.....

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/EuroExperience/uefaorg/WhatUEFAis/01/80/54/03/1805403_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Sure once the FAI gives out licences to LSL clubs we can keep the National team.

Would be ****ing hilarious to see an LSL clubs finances

I think you know it could / would be done if necessary...

LuckyLloyd

Article 7.4 of that document:

Member Associations shall apply a club licensing system
according to the minimum requirements set by UEFA from time to
time. Member Associations shall include such an obligation and
define the licensing bodies in their statutes.

How does this work with San Marino?

geeky

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think you know it could / would be done if necessary...

Presumably the major clubs wouldn't just vanish? Would teams like rovers, shels and pats continue playing each other? What could the FAI do?

chopperbyrne

Will season ticket holders be refunded?

dreamers75

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Article 7.4 of that document:



How does this work with San Marino?

Keep reading you will get to it.

Francie Barrett

Gibraltar have an entirely amateur league and are looking to join UEFA in 2013. Apparently there are technical requirements around having "a national youth system and coach education courses.". I believe all these exist independently of current LOI structures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar_Football_League
http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/news/article/-/13299308/gibraltar-to-join-uefa-membership-in-2013/

Francie Barrett

dreamers75 wrote: »

Keep reading you will get to it.

Just point the bit out to us please.

celtictiger32

just heard this news its terrible again for irish football, the fai need to get their finger out and start committing to the league.

LuckyLloyd

dreamers75 wrote: »

Keep reading you will get to it.

lol

My reading is done for the day. You make out like it is a bad thing that someone would dare to ask to see the rule which is bandied about all the time on here, and would wonder aloud how nations like San Marino can field a national team with it in the rule books. Thanks for the link, I'll finish it tomorrow morning.

Now I'm off to sing on our national team as part of THE BEST FANS IN THE WORLDtm.

Iang87

As a Limerick fan I have a dislike for monaghan anyway over the should they or shouldnt they go up fiasco last year cos we suffered from it but its sad for this to happen.

Awful for Irish soccer when teams cant even finish the season out

Frank Spencer

FAI wrote:

The Football Association of Ireland today (June 18) confirmed that Monaghan United has notified the League Department of its formal intention to withdraw from the Airtricity League of Ireland Premier Division. The club had met with the National League Director in the past month and no indication of this decision was flagged at that meeting.
Speaking today, Fran Gavin, Director of the Airtricity League said: "We met with the officials of Monaghan United less than a month ago to get an update on where they were with their budget for the season. At that time there was absolutely no question of withdrawing from the league. Today's announcement from Monaghan United is a surprise to us and is very disappointing.
"We have been assisting the club in recent weeks to try and help them source a main sponsor."
The FAI have called a Board Meeting this afternoon in Poland where the matter will be discussed. The Board members present in Poland are there at their own expense.
Chairman of the National League Eamon Naughton and Airtricity League Director Fran Gavin expressed their disappointment at Monaghan United’s decision after the growth that the club has seen since its entry to the League of Ireland in 1985.
Monaghan United has received significant support from the FAI and the National League including a facility development loan for €150,000 of which over €100,000 is still outstanding. The FAI also provided a €25,000 grant to the club in 2009 during its AGM in Monaghan, as well as providing assistance in securing Sports Capital Grants for the club.
A further statement will be issued later this evening once the FAI Board has had the opportunity to consider the matter fully and determine the next steps.

http://www.fai.ie/domestic-a-grassroots/airtricity-league/news/102593-fai-statement-re-monaghan-utd-fc.html

dreamers75

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol

Fair few expcetions to the rule, its at the end under exceptions. Liechenstein,Luxembourg, Welsh teams in english. Each had a valid reason for being an exception. We do not other than being "best fans in the world"

The Football Association of Ireland today (June 18) confirmed that Monaghan United has notified the League Department of its formal intention to withdraw from the Airtricity League of Ireland Premier Division. The club had met with the National League Director in the past month and no indication of this decision was flagged at that meeting.

Speaking today, Fran Gavin, Director of the Airtricity League said: "We met with the officials of Monaghan United less than a month ago to get an update on where they were with their budget for the season. At that time there was absolutely no question of withdrawing from the league. Today's announcement from Monaghan United is a surprise to us and is very disappointing.

"We have been assisting the club in recent weeks to try and help them source a main sponsor."

The FAI have called a Board Meeting this afternoon in Poland where the matter will be discussed. The Board members present in Poland are there at their own expense.
Chairman of the National League Eamon Naughton and Airtricity League Director Fran Gavin expressed their disappointment at Monaghan United’s decision after the growth that the club has seen since its entry to the League of Ireland in 1985.

Monaghan United has received significant support from the FAI and the National League including a facility development loan for €150,000 of which over €100,000 is still outstanding. The FAI also provided a €25,000 grant to the club in 2009 during its AGM in Monaghan, as well as providing assistance in securing Sports Capital Grants for the club.

A further statement will be issued later this evening once the FAI Board has had the opportunity to consider the matter fully and determine the next steps.

Strange choice of words in a few parts of that.

Edit:

Sometimes the EPL fans are right but instead of dissovling the League.....maybe just go the whole hog and dissolve the FAI.

http://www.balls.ie/2012/06/18/john-delaneys-speech-to-irish-fans-we-were-****in-magnificent/

CSF

Witchie wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

This is absolutely disgraceful. This sort of thing shouldn't happen mid-season.

Yeah we should just have knuckled down not paid the players, gone bust and not paid any creditors, a much more responsible and kind thing to do.

It was done now so that the players and manager have time to get new teams in the transfer window.

Alternatively you could have not signed contracts you couldn't afford. Whatever about teams having debts come the end of the season, this is ****ing ridiculous