One off housing...

Chinasea

Chinasea wrote: »

Attachment not found.

A bit exposed. :eek:
Someone with a brown envelope in their back pocket, no doubt.:rolleyes:

CruelCoin

CB19Kevo wrote: »

All over this island, One thing that i feel takes away from the natural scenery is houses dotted along the roads often times 10 or plus miles from an urban area..
What makes it worse is these buildings are often of bad design/finish.
(If they were finished in stone/wood cladding they might sit back).

It is a result of bad planning but it is here now, Does anyone else cringe at these buildings? and short of nuking all these structures anyone have any better ideas moving into the future?

No more hideous than the forest of concrete and steel we call villages/towns/cities.

Each to their own OP.

I'm not very partial to constantly breathing air that reeks of burger king.

Nippledragon

Planning should be done by the properly qualified people eg. Architects primarily and Engineers.

So many planners have arts degrees in completely irrelevant fields. The result is the current countryside. So many people call themselves architects when they are not.

Cork county council released a fantastic local planning guide a few years ago - the whole country's co.councils should have adopted it. It preserved the countryside by promoting good architectural design (vernacular) that responded to its context in a low-impact manner.

Country side is ruined with white boxes with massive flat lawns that are rip-off's from some book - slightly amended to avoid copyright issues.

The boom is a direct reflection of this - look how big my house is on the site I own, and don't forget to look at my fancy car too.

Nothingbetter2d

Nippledragon wrote: »

Planning should be done by the properly qualified people eg. Architects primarily and Engineers.

So many planners have arts degrees in completely irrelevant fields. The result is the current countryside. So many people call themselves architects when they are not.

Cork county council released a fantastic local planning guide a few years ago - the whole country's co.councils should have adopted it. It preserved the countryside by promoting good architectural design (vernacular) that responded to its context in a low-impact manner.

Country side is ruined with white boxes with massive flat lawns that are rip-off's from some book - slightly amended to avoid copyright issues.

The boom is a direct reflection of this - look how big my house is on the site I own, and don't forget to look at my fancy car too.

many cities and towns are littered with poorly built shoeboxes that will fall apart in 50 years or less. where as those countryside big houses will last hundreds of years if maintained properly. :rolleyes:

Robbo

Have we had the false dichotomy yet that if you think one off housing isn't the bestest thing ever, you're content to life in a Stalinist 20 story block of flats with hot and cold running junkies?

Nippledragon

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

many cities and towns are littered with poorly built shoeboxes that will fall apart in 50 years or less. where as those countryside big houses will last hundreds of years if maintained properly. :rolleyes:

Yes and no to that point. Good design should involve more than something looking pretty. I have seen some terrible workmanship on lots of "shoeboxes" in the countryside too, and I mean terrible. One set of houses (that should never have got permission IMHO) had the sinks fixed to the underside of the counter-tops with tile off-cuts and tile adhesive. One of them is now for sale for 600,000 euros.

Greed has also added to the problem. If our councils/gov had capped the amount of housing being built during the boom we might still have houses being built. The whole area of planning needs a complete overhaul.

scdublin

Yep notice them all the time...some of them are so out of place it just looks awful!

Nothingbetter2d

Nippledragon wrote: »

Yes and no to that point. Good design should involve more than something looking pretty. I have seen some terrible workmanship on lots of "shoeboxes" in the countryside too, and I mean terrible. One set of houses (that should never have got permission IMHO) had the sinks fixed to the underside of the counter-tops with tile off-cuts and tile adhesive. One of them is now for sale for 600,000 euros.

Greed has also added to the problem. If our councils/gov had capped the amount of housing being built during the boom we might still have houses being built. The whole area of planning needs a complete overhaul.

the biggest problem in ireland is the fact that the councils DO NOT inspect new houses during the construction phase... this is why so many cowboy builders got away with it.

in the uk the councils routinely send out inspectors many times during the construction phase of buildings. The irish councils really need to start doing this too.

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the biggest problem in ireland is the fact that the councils DO NOT inspect new houses during the construction phase... this is why so many cowboy builders got away with it.

in the uk the councils routinely send out inspectors many times during the construction phase of buildings. The irish councils really need to start doing this too.

The council in Ireland are to blame for the worst houses ever built probably due to hiring cowboy builders.

I`d rather live in one of those bungalows than in most urban parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork or Waterford.

The real problem is the pathetic size and look of the lego like 3 bed and smaller houses in urban areas. Anyone who wants a bit of modest room in a house needs to get a one off.

Nippledragon

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the biggest problem in ireland is the fact that the councils DO NOT inspect new houses during the construction phase... this is why so many cowboy builders got away with it.

in the uk the councils routinely send out inspectors many times during the construction phase of buildings. The irish councils really need to start doing this too.

I agree there needs to be more intensive checks on work being carried out, but this also needs to be done with planning applications submitted too. "Is there a requirement for another poorly designed-hobbit-apartment-block?"...."The developer needs to make money though"..."Permission granted then"

I know a site in the west where a farmer wanted to build a house for his son. The proposed building design responded really well to the site as it would have hardly been noticed and would not have obstructed views out to sea from the main adjoining road. Council said no way in hell would they allow it.

6 months later a well known developer with political ties buys the site and builds 7 houses that were ripped off from a housing book. They are completely out of context and completely obscure the view to the sea.

Complete overhaul needed....

kevmy85

Where To wrote: »

It's an Irish person's birthright to plant their house in the middle of nowhere, be entitled to water, sewerage, electricity, 100Mbs broadband, bin collections, low motor tax, two lane dual carriageway right to their front door, postal delivery right into the front living room, and a school, postoffice, McDonalds and a 24 hour garda station within five minutes walk.

And woe betide any government that attempts to charge them for any of this.

I have to pull this one up. People who live in rural areas do NOT think like this. This is the urban attitude.

If you knew anything of rural life you would understand that the lads out in the sticks have being paying for water and bin collections and their own sewerage systems since Jesus was a young fella while urbanites get them for free.

They put up with ****ty broadband and services too. But usually they understand this and put up with it because they have chosen to live there. They like the countryside, they've grown up there, they own the land that houses are built on - maybe their families are living there for generations (my own family are on our little plot since the Famine).


And personally I think the ghost estates, which adorn our urban areas and every town and village up and down the country are much more of a blight than a few auld bungalows that farming families have built on their own land.

jmayo

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Cant really think of a suitable thread title..

It just seems crazy to have houses dotted all over in a country our size.. Its not an attack on rural life.
It would be far easier to bring services (broadband,water,etc) to villages..

Ah FFS pull the other one.
I can show you a village along a major national route, within 20 miles of Dublin city centre, which has sh**e broadband.
So less of this cr** about how everyone would have great broadband if they only lived in towns and villages.

hondasam wrote: »

What are you on about ? people who live in the countryside is it?
I am one of those people who built a house in the country so no I don't cringe every time I come home.

According to some you should wear a paper bag over your head to hide your shame.

Where To wrote: »

It's an Irish person's birthright to plant their house in the middle of nowhere, be entitled to water, sewerage, electricity, 100Mbs broadband, bin collections, low motor tax, two lane dual carriageway right to their front door, postal delivery right into the front living room, and a school, postoffice, McDonalds and a 24 hour garda station within five minutes walk.

And woe betide any government that attempts to charge them for any of this.

What a load of utter urbanite uninformed bullsh**. :mad:

Most rural dwellers have their own septic tanks whose handsome installation costs they have paid for and they will now pay for the inspection of those tanks.
Most rural dwellers either have personal wells or are part of local water scheme.
Either way they pay for it.
As regards roads, most rural dwellers just want gaping potholes filled and hedges cut rather than a dual carriageway.
Besides the advent of a nearby dual carriageway might mean we see more of people like you.

I can't recall any rural dweller demanding the things you list, least of all a McDonalds.
They might want the local school to remain open because they reckon their children have a better chance of a decent education in a 100 child school rather than a 400 child school.
They might demand some form of protection under our police force, but I don't think anyone has asked for a Garda station at the end of every road and laneway.
They just want one in the local urban area.
Ever hear about community policing ?
You know it doesn't just apply to urban areas ?
Either way they don't demand or expect something to be 5 minutes away as you claim.

And wow betide any government that wants urban dwellers to pay for the water they use or the sewage their spew forth.
Sure isn't that paid for with their taxes ? :rolleyes:

BTW where do you live ?
I just hope you aren't a regular visitor to the countryside as we have enough bull and horsesh**e, thank you.

mikemac1

Even though a few posters have chosen to abuse rural dwellers on this thread you are forgiven, we will still salute ya.


A tractor driver will give the nazi salute and the rest of us will give a subtle tap on the steering wheel.
If you have a jeep we'll flash the lights


If you are driving and we are walking we'll give you a wave like your Mammy did on your first day of school


Saluting, it's what seperates us from the townies :cool:

You'd probably get mugged in town!

Where To

jmayo wrote: »

Ah FFS pull the other one.
I can show you a village along a major national route, within 20 miles of Dublin city centre, which has sh**e broadband.
So less of this cr** about how everyone would have great broadband if they only lived in towns and villages.



According to some you should wear a paper bag over your head to hide your shame.



What a load of utter urbanite uninformed bullsh**. :mad:

Most rural dwellers have their own septic tanks whose handsome installation costs they have paid for and they will now pay for the inspection of those tanks.
Most rural dwellers either have personal wells or are part of local water scheme.
Either way they pay for it.
As regards roads, most rural dwellers just want gaping potholes filled and hedges cut rather than a dual carriageway.
Besides the advent of a nearby dual carriageway might mean we see more of people like you.

I can't recall any rural dweller demanding the things you list, least of all a McDonalds.
They might want the local school to remain open because they reckon their children have a better chance of a decent education in a 100 child school rather than a 400 child school.
They might demand some form of protection under our police force, but I don't think anyone has asked for a Garda station at the end of every road and laneway.
They just want one in the local urban area.
Ever hear about community policing ?
You know it doesn't just apply to urban areas ?
Either way they don't demand or expect something to be 5 minutes away as you claim.

And wow betide any government that wants urban dwellers to pay for the water they use or the sewage their spew forth.
Sure isn't that paid for with their taxes ? :rolleyes:

BTW where do you live ?
I just hope you aren't a regular visitor to the countryside as we have enough bull and horsesh**e, thank you.

Sorry to inform you, but I'm rural born and bred, living on the same plot my family has since at least 1601 and no idea how long before that.

Septic tank was installed in the early 70s and has only had to be emptied once in an extremely dry summer. Part of a group water scheme for the last 25 years, before that had our own well with superior water quality, only more inconsistent. Electrified in 1959 but have only had what you could call a 'stable' supply for the last fifteen or twenty years. Roads are better than some places worse than others, I'd estimate they cost me €1000 per year on repairs, but I do a lot of driving. Broadband is all butnon-existent, our local exchange isn't DSL enabled and most likely never will be. It's easier to get a UK mobile signal here than an Irish one.

That's where I live and I wouldn't change it.

What annoys me is this sense of entitlement that pervades rural Ireland and anyone who doesn't notice it is either a part of it or has their head in the sand. People who want everything but pay for nothing.

The ones who cry about a septic tank inspection when you can see the effluent running down their lawn and out onto the main road.

The ones who cry about water charges when they have outside taps running 24/7

The ones who cry when the local garda station is officially closed, even though it hasn't actually been open for the last 6 or 7 years.

The ones who complain about roads being sh1te, even though the drive around in an untaxed uninsured or unregistered car, and refer to the Traffic Corps and the Customs as 'scum'.

The ones who dump nappies and other household waste in beauty spots.

The ones who complain about a school closing when pupil numbers are in single figures.

The ones who complain about post offices closing who don't 'bother' with things such as dog and TV licences.

I could go on but you get the drift.

CB19Kevo

Some people think this is a attack on rural life when clearly it is not.
What is the issue is future development and good upkeep of existing structures.

Is it so crazy to expect people to build within a certain distance from a village,town,city as opposed to all along major roadways which takes away from the natural beauty of the countryside and puts increased pressure on all services to provide higher quality of services to areas which should not have been built on to begin with.

Put it this way i am sure many of us would like to build houses by the cliffs of moher,Along the ring of kerry, Up the Wicklow mountains but it is in the greater good to protect these areas and i would say the same for the countryside in general..

jmayo

Where To wrote: »

Sorry to inform you, but I'm rural born and bred, living on the same plot my family has since at least 1601 and no idea how long before that.

Septic tank was installed in the early 70s and has only had to be emptied once in an extremely dry summer.
.

Yes but whoever put in the septic, even if rudimentary in comparison to today, still had to pay for it.

Where To wrote: »

Part of a group water scheme for the last 25 years, before that had our own well with superior water quality, only more inconsistent. Electrified in 1959 but have only had what you could call a 'stable' supply for the last fifteen or twenty years. Roads are better than some places worse than others, I'd estimate they cost me €1000 per year on repairs, but I do a lot of driving. Broadband is all butnon-existent, our local exchange isn't DSL enabled and most likely never will be. It's easier to get a UK mobile signal here than an Irish one.

That's where I live and I wouldn't change it.

What annoys me is this sense of entitlement that pervades rural Ireland and anyone who doesn't notice it is either a part of it or has their head in the sand. People who want everything but pay for nothing.

I don't know how you can limit this sense of entitlement to only rural dwellers.
You have that in urban Ireland too and by the way you singled out rural Ireland made me immediately think that you are just another urban begrudger.
As I mentioned lots of people in urban Ireland don't see why they shoudl pay for refuse collection, water or sewage.

Where To wrote: »

The ones who cry about a septic tank inspection when you can see the effluent running down their lawn and out onto the main road.

You will always get the ones who take the p**s, as in the farmer who decides he will the waste water and all it's contents run out on the road from the yard.
The ones who cry about water charges when they have outside taps running 24/7

I remember one guy complaining at water scheme AGM about his water pressure, only for the local priest who happened to be chairman finding upon visiting him that he wanted pressue to wash the car with a hose.

Where To wrote: »

The ones who cry when the local garda station is officially closed, even though it hasn't actually been open for the last 6 or 7 years.

The ones who complain about roads being sh1te, even though the drive around in an untaxed uninsured or unregistered car, and refer to the Traffic Corps and the Customs as 'scum'.

The ones who dump nappies and other household waste in beauty spots.

The ones who complain about a school closing when pupil numbers are in single figures.

The ones who complain about post offices closing who don't 'bother' with things such as dog and TV licences.

I could go on but you get the drift.

A lot of what you complain about is not limited to rural Ireland.
Yes people will complain about the local Garda station, postoffice or school going even though they not have used them in years.
It is because it is local and they have used them in the past and they may feel the local area is losing something for good.

But people in urban areas complain too you know.
People in urban Ireland also don't bother with TV licenses, dog licenses, car tax, etc.
It is a fact of living in Ireland.

People complain about rural parish pump politics returning dodgy politicans, yet urban Dublin has returned 4 of the most dodgy, infact two were found to be outright corrupt.

mikemac1

Where To wrote: »

The ones who complain about roads being sh1te, even though the drive around in an untaxed uninsured or unregistered car, and refer to the Traffic Corps and the Customs as 'scum'.

That's Donegal though, an extreme example

There are chancers everywhere in Ireland but Donegal has a reputation for a reason


You'd be waiting a long time to see yellow regs and customs checkpoints in the midlands.

analucija

Where To wrote: »

The ones who dump nappies and other household waste in beauty spots.

We live in not very densely populated village and the rubbish dumping by people who drive into the village and dump it into woods is driving us nuts. And because they are not locals (probably from town estates) nobody knows their cars and we can't do anything. If you live where we do you pay for bin collections, because we actually care what our surroundings look like.

And you take care for your garden because it's not hidden at the back of the house, we have our own well because we get much better drinking water. Broadband is satellite because it's the only one we can get. Our house is totally stone clad and very nice and has very good energy rating because we built it ourselves and wanted good quality. I lived in a town estate which is supposed to be built to a fairly good standard but the quality of that build is in no comparison to ours and neither is the aesthetics of it. And because we worked hard ourselves we are not in negative equity and crying about property tax.

I agree that local planning is dreadful but it's equally dreadful in towns. There are way to many estates sprawling around, covering too much space where there should be actually apartment buildings. Ireland is not as densely populated as most of Europe so you can get away with it but one-of housing is just part of the problem and some housing estates in suburbia are absolutely vile.

Where To

Where To wrote: »

It's an Irish person's birthright to plant their house in the middle of nowhere, be entitled to water, sewerage, electricity, 100Mbs broadband, bin collections, low motor tax, two lane dual carriageway right to their front door, postal delivery right into the front living room, and a school, postoffice, McDonalds and a 24 hour garda station within five minutes walk.

And woe betide any government that attempts to charge them for any of this.

jmayo wrote: »

Yes but whoever put in the septic, even if rudimentary in comparison to today, still had to pay for it.



I don't know how you can limit this sense of entitlement to only rural dwellers.
You have that in urban Ireland too and by the way you singled out rural Ireland made me immediately think that you are just another urban begrudger.
As I mentioned lots of people in urban Ireland don't see why they shoudl pay for refuse collection, water or sewage.



You will always get the ones who take the p**s, as in the farmer who decides he will the waste water and all it's contents run out on the road from the yard.
The ones who cry about water charges when they have outside taps running 24/7

I remember one guy complaining at water scheme AGM about his water pressure, only for the local priest who happened to be chairman finding upon visiting him that he wanted pressue to wash the car with a hose.



A lot of what you complain about is not limited to rural Ireland.
Yes people will complain about the local Garda station, postoffice or school going even though they not have used them in years.
It is because it is local and they have used them in the past and they may feel the local area is losing something for good.

But people in urban areas complain too you know.
People in urban Ireland also don't bother with TV licenses, dog licenses, car tax, etc.
It is a fact of living in Ireland.

People complain about rural parish pump politics returning dodgy politicans, yet urban Dublin has returned 4 of the most dodgy, infact two were found to be outright corrupt.

I agree that it's not just a rural Irish attitude, I didn't intend to imply that in my post.

kevmy85

CB19Kevo wrote: »

Some people think this is a attack on rural life when clearly it is not.
What is the issue is future development and good upkeep of existing structures.

Is it so crazy to expect people to build within a certain distance from a village,town,city as opposed to all along major roadways which takes away from the natural beauty of the countryside and puts increased pressure on all services to provide higher quality of services to areas which should not have been built on to begin with.

Put it this way i am sure many of us would like to build houses by the cliffs of moher,Along the ring of kerry, Up the Wicklow mountains but it is in the greater good to protect these areas and i would say the same for the countryside in general..

I don't think rural dwellers are griping at good planning, most of the time they are griping at bad planning.

A ban on building a one-off house but no problem throwing up a 40 house estate with no-one to live in them.

And most rural people want to live on, or close, to their own land. This is because they already own the site and have easy access to their sheds, etc. Most peoples land isn't in the Ring of Kerry or up a mountain.

In fact houses that stand empty for 90% of the year in an scenic area are probably owned by some rich urban blow-in.

You have to remember a lot of the houses are built on peoples own land for sons and daughters etc.

Why should I be stopped building a house next to my home house on our own land rather than having to pay for a site as well as building a a house somewhere else away from where I want to live or pay more for a house already built that I cannot have designed to suit what I want.

I fulling intend building my own house in the future on our land and I sure as hell wont be stopped.

FanadMan

mikemac1 wrote: »

That's Donegal though, an extreme example

There are chancers everywhere in Ireland but Donegal has a reputation for a reason


You'd be waiting a long time to see yellow regs and customs checkpoints in the midlands.

Source???

analucija

Maison Ripe Evergreen wrote: »

You have to remember a lot of the houses are built on peoples own land for sons and daughters etc.

Why should I be stopped building a house next to my home house on our own land rather than having to pay for a site as well as building a a house somewhere else away from where I want to live or pay more for a house already built that I cannot have designed to suit what I want.

I fulling intend building my own house in the future on our land and I sure as hell wont be stopped.

We had to prove local need for building next door to partners parents. We didn't even mention me, because we didn't want any doubt that we intend to live there for life (and we do) and not just build and sell for a profit. Where we live is very hard to get permission if you are not local so the planning is not as bad everywhere. Our planning even demanded stone wall around the house and wooden not plastic or aluminium windows. In general I think those of us who want to live somewhere care a lot more how our neighborhood lives. Those who bought somewhere just as a stepping stone have often a lot less attachment to the neighborhood and care a lot less how it looks and in what condition it is.

Fupping Grasshole

Where To wrote: »

It's an Irish person's birthright to plant their house in the middle of nowhere, be entitled to

HA!

Where To wrote: »

water,

Charges coming, no probs with me but wait til the inner city scummers throw a tantrum, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

sewerage,

We pay for own septic tanks, thanks, every country person has the know how to mind their own sh*t, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

electricity,

Last time I checked I was billed every second month, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

100Mbs broadband,

Last time I checked I was billed monthly, thanks. My current connection speed?..0.05Mbps, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

bin collections,

Last time I checked, I was billed anually for this, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

low motor tax,

Last time I checked there was a thing called VRT & NCT amongst others, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

two lane dual carriageway right to their front door,

Last time I checked, my road is less than the width of a lorry and car side by side, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

postal delivery right into the front living room,

Last time I checked, he leaves it in my post box outside, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

and a school,

Last time I checked, I was paying for an extention to be built onto the school, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

McDonalds and a

Nearest McDonalds to me is 33 miles away, thanks. I don't eat that muck either thus saving the tax payer medical expenses resulting from heart disease, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

24 hour garda station within five minutes walk.

Nearest Garda station to me is 20 miles away and hasn't operated fully for some years now, thanks.

Where To wrote: »

And woe betide any government that attempts to charge them for any of this.

Fup the government, thanks.

Now. I've never heard a country person ask for any of these services or expect them for nothing. I'm quite happy to grow my own spuds and vegetables, drives 15 miles to recycle my waste...compost the organic stuff and use the bin service monthly for other waste, thanks.
I'm quite happy to pay for my own septic tank and duck my head inside it twice anually for inspection & desludging. We all do this.. The farmer next to me spends most of his time spreading cow **** around the field for fertilization.
Quite happy to have paid for esb to erect a pole to bring lecy into the house.
Quite happy to do without 100mb broadband.
Quite happy to pay taxes for roads and pay for bin charges.
Quite happy to drive around a bend at 30mph incase a tractor or lorry comes around and splatters me into a ditch.
Quite happy to pay for school services when they ask for it.
Quite happy not to eat muck from a chipper, nor expect one to be on my doorstep. Nor do we get delivery, like a lazy townie expects.
Garda stations? Classic example of the ineptitude of governement after governement in this country but no, blame it on someone else who's fault it wasn't, thanks.

Now, maybe there's a situation whereby city scummers are being rehoused in rural areas as part of "social housing" that's a problem alright, looking for everything for nothing as per usual.

Nothingbetter2d

Nippledragon wrote: »

I agree there needs to be more intensive checks on work being carried out, but this also needs to be done with planning applications submitted too. "Is there a requirement for another poorly designed-hobbit-apartment-block?"...."The developer needs to make money though"..."Permission granted then"

.

to be honest designing building for planning is bound by our building regs and in most cases the designs are within the guidelines set out by the building regs.

the problems start when builders deviate from the agreed plans and make changes on site here n there... more often than not the building built is NOT exactly as it should be on the drawings submitted to the planning authority.

as the councils don't inspect building during construction they have no idea that the building is not the same on site as it is on paper.

and so buildings get higher, bigger, and layout changes during the building phase. unless someone objects the council will never know these changes are being made.

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

to be honest designing building for planning is bound by our building regs and in most cases the designs are within the guidelines set out by the building regs.

the problems start when builders deviate from the agreed plans and make changes on site here n there... more often than not the building built is NOT exactly as it should be on the drawings submitted to the planning authority.

as the councils don't inspect building during construction they have no idea that the building is not the same on site as it is on paper.

and so buildings get higher, bigger, and layout changes during the building phase. unless someone objects the council will never know these changes are being made.

You trying to say people just add on to the plans without planning permission?
This will cause problems if you try to sell. You do know an engineer has to check and pass the house as per the plan.
If you have a link to prove this post it.

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

You trying to say people just add on to the plans without planning permission?
This will cause problems if you try to sell. You do know an engineer has to check and pass the house as per the plan.
If you have a link to prove this post it.

yes people do add and make changes during building phase.

add a door way here, add a window there... make the conservatory a few feet bigger, raise ceiling an extra block higher etc. it happens all the time.

most engineers will sign it just to get their paycheck.

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

yes people do add and make changes during building phase.

add a door way here, add a window there... make the conservatory a few feet bigger, raise ceiling an extra block higher etc. it happens all the time.

Small changes are ok but not when you are adding to the conservatory or raising ceilings. How often does it happen?
The engineer still has to pass it as per the plan.

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

Small changes are ok but not when you are adding to the conservatory or raising ceilings. How often does it happen?
The engineer still has to pass it as per the plan.

more often than not.

ive designed building for 18 years now... you would be surprised to see how many engineers will sign off building without ever going on site.


if the council had been inspecting buildings during construction then priory hall would not be an issue now.

charlemont

Deleted User wrote: »

I`d rather live in one of those bungalows than in most urban parts of Dublin, Limerick, Cork or Waterford.

The real problem is the pathetic size and look of the lego like 3 bed and smaller houses in urban areas. Anyone who wants a bit of modest room in a house needs to get a one off.

That is unfortunately true but that is because of greed and the fact people wouldn't complain and demand better, Ireland is Ireland not Manhatten or Amsterdam where land is scarce and in demand.
We have lots of land and estates like the horrible Eagle Valley in Cork for example should never have been built the way they were, Notice how the earlier estates late 60's 70's early 80's were structurally built fairly well with good gardens but the tiger estates are junk.

I see a fair few of our country dwellers are suffering from paranoid delusions about our crime drug infested urban areas with our horrible neighbours !! :rolleyes:

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if the council had been inspecting buildings during construction then priory hall would not be an issue now.

Are they not the cause of some of the problems with priory hall?

Who checks the council?

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

Are they not the cause of some of the problems with priory hall?

Who checks the council?

noone when it comes to planning & building regs enforcement on private dwellings.

the fire service do inspect public buildings but only after the building has been completed and awaiting a fire safety certificate... which is why priory hall residents cannot live in their homes. cos the fire service failed the safety certificate application on grounds of inadequate measures to prevent a fire from spreading throughout the entire complex.

Nippledragon

The majority of the celtic-tiger estates were/are a complete waste of money driven by greed. How much will they cost to demolish once they start to crumble altogether? The developers/builders responsible for shocking building practice should be locked up in jail along with the majority of the last government for company.

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

noone when it comes to planning & building regs enforcement on private dwellings.

the fire service do inspect public buildings but only after the building has been completed and awaiting a fire safety certificate... which is why priory hall residents cannot live in their homes. cos the fire service failed the safety certificate application on grounds of inadequate measures to prevent a fire from spreading throughout the entire complex.

''Dublin City Council granted fire certificates to McFeely's company before a single brick was laid.''

what went wrong here? Were the council wrong?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=priory%20hall&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald.ie%2Fnews%2Fpriory-hall-families-may-never-return-3148498.html&ei=sFP0T84u07WEB7Xk-egG&usg=AFQjCNHnbCmNDn8uwNu4aQsIk1xRA2Tl6g

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

''Dublin City Council granted fire certificates to McFeely's company before a single brick was laid.''

what went wrong here? Were the council wrong?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=priory%20hall&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CEsQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald.ie%2Fnews%2Fpriory-hall-families-may-never-return-3148498.html&ei=sFP0T84u07WEB7Xk-egG&usg=AFQjCNHnbCmNDn8uwNu4aQsIk1xRA2Tl6g

all parties involved in the construction were wrong and now the people that bought units there have to pay the price for it.

if i was the residents i'd file for a class action law suit against DCC for failing to ensure that the building regs were being adhered to during construction.

Cuddlesworth

mikemac1 wrote: »

When you build a house you have to pay ESB Networks to connect you, this will be least 2,000 euro and probably more. And you then pay a higher rate

In general that's a subsidised cost, the actual installation cost to ESB is usually much higher.

And the cost of maintaining live cabling for low density dwellings is massively subsidised by urban populations. There is a cost to simply having miles of little used power lines kept live.

As is the cost of having miles of road for a small number of dwellings when placed in comparison to urban or high density households.

Tax take in rural regions is also ridiculously low, meaning that there is little to no income for the government in these regions and in a economic sense, very little reason to continue to subsidise these houses outside of agriculture.

Once off housing is necessary for agriculture. All other housing should be placed into high density arrangements.

Cuddlesworth

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Once off housing is necessary for agriculture. All other housing should be placed into high density arrangements.

People should be allowed to live where they chose not where you think they should.

Your arguments above make no sense. If your going to maintain roads and power cabling etc for farm houses it makes more economic sense to have more users availing of the services than just a farm house here and there.

eth0

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In general that's a subsidised cost, the actual installation cost to ESB is usually much higher.

And the cost of maintaining live cabling for low density dwellings is massively subsidised by urban populations. There is a cost to simply having miles of little used power lines kept live.

As is the cost of having miles of road for a small number of dwellings when placed in comparison to urban or high density households.

Tax take in rural regions is also ridiculously low, meaning that there is little to no income for the government in these regions and in a economic sense, very little reason to continue to subsidise these houses outside of agriculture.

Once off housing is necessary for agriculture. All other housing should be placed into high density arrangements.

I suppose you hope to outsource farming to robots as well so eventually the countryside will be off limits for living in and just there for city daytrippers to come and look at

rugrats

The road from my house to town is frickin' ugly. We live just outside a conservation area, and the road is littered with these ugly dormers that some idiot built about five years ago. He must have built about ten of them along the road - and he's sold about five.

The road is three miles long and there are over 80 houses on it. I remember about 10 years ago there was less than a third of that amount. My mum told me back when they built their house, there was only about 7 or 8 houses along the road.

I can understand one off housing when people have a reason to build a one off house. We live on a farm, so it's only right that we could build a house on the farm. But this developer, (I shouldn't even call him developer) man who thought he could get rich quick built these ten almost identical houses down the quiet country road and sold them to people who weren't even from the area. As far as I remember, central government did give guidelines to councils about rural housing permission. Something like, applicants should be granted permission on the basis that at least one member of the family farms in the area they are building, or has a proper connection with the area. How in the name of GOD could the council have granted this man permission for these dwellings. They didn't give a fúcking shít in there, and it makes me sick.
When my parents were granted permission they had to agree to all this shít that they wouldn't sell the house for five years and it couldn't be over a certain height and you couldn't do this and that. At least we have a credible reason for our house. Our council just didn't give enough of a shít 30 years later when the country was run on greed.

Now our lovely rural road has more houses than fields, great good for the yanks who invade the place every summer. Those bitches love fields

I totally agree that good design is important. There are a few houses that I do admire down our road; a restored and well-extended cottage, a humble 90's dormer with natural slates and a well landscaped garden. It fits really wel into the area. The idea that the one-off builders had in the last few years has evidently been to tarmac the whole place and make these ugly empty lawns just to convince themselves that they are somehow better and richer for having a bigger lawn than someone in an estate even though they probably earn the same as them, and could only build because they got the site off dad. I also think that less is more. My house is a 1979 bungalow bliss derivative, but when it was built in '79, it was negligible because the rest of the area was fields. It was a needle in the haystack, but now it appears as one of too many.

Let them build in the country if they have a reason to be in the country, they can afford to get an architect to design it right, and they understand that they will never get the same services they will get in the city. Otherwise, tell them to fúck off.

paddy147

Spare a thought for the ex-residents of Priory Hall when reading this thread.


Be glad and happy with what you have allready,before complaining.

Clareboy

One off houses are a major blight on our traditional landscapes and so much of our countryside is now destroyed that many parts of Ireland are now described as ' planning write-offs'. Going forward into the future, we are going to pay a terrible price for the bad planning of the past 50 years. Our countryside is ravaged by totally inappropriate housing and our towns and villages are further blighted by dereliction and decay. Basically we have screwed up big time! The environmental, social and ecomonic consequences of our crazy lust for one off housing is truly frightning and we will all end up paying for this madness in the long term.

Cuddlesworth

eth0 wrote: »

I suppose you hope to outsource farming to robots as well so eventually the countryside will be off limits for living in and just there for city daytrippers to come and look at

Why bother to compose a logical argument when you can hatch up the above.

Maison Ripe Evergreen wrote: »

People should be allowed to live where they chose not where you think they should.

If they actually paid for their electricity, phone and transport infrastructure then your argument would have merit. But they don't, hence the need for planning regulations. And yes, I'm aware that a large portion pay for their water and sewage treatment.

Maison Ripe Evergreen wrote: »

Your arguments above make no sense. If your going to maintain roads and power cabling etc for farm houses it makes more economic sense to have more users availing of the services than just a farm house here and there.

I found it hard to see what part of this you don't understand, so I went and did some looking about. I have now found out that the average farm size in Ireland is .34Km2.

So yeah, maybe you have a point. We already have too many farms, clearly we haven't progressed much from our old land holding days. Might as well just reduce the space and makes things worse for economies of scale.

kowloon

Where To wrote: »

The ones who cry about a septic tank inspection when you can see the effluent running down their lawn and out onto the main road.

The ones who cry about water charges when they have outside taps running 24/7

I think people don't like the inspection idea because most places are currently getting the service for free. If you're in the country is it too much to ask to get an inspection in lieu of a free service? It reeks of a money spinner. If a septic tank is polluting the countryside and remedial work is not carried out the owner should fully expect a fine.

Well owners pay for their water by usage, the cost manifests itself on their ESB bill. I have no idea how group schemes and the likes work.

The dumping you mentioned elsewhere is something that really gets to me, it's everywhere in the country. Wherever there's a nice secluded lane somewhere there's often a battered washing machine or torn mattress nearby.

Often it is the locals, but people don't always crap in their own nests.

flanders1979

I would love a house in the countryside, even a mile or 2 outside would do me. I'd sow a few spuds, keep a few hens, go for walks down the fields AND I would never have to listen to that thundering cnut of a neighbours dog few doors down barking at all hours.

flanders1979

flanders1979 wrote: »

I would love a house in the countryside, even a mile or 2 outside would do me. I'd sow a few spuds, keep a few hens, go for walks down the fields AND I would never have to listen to that thundering cnut of a neighbours dog few doors down barking at all hours.

Lots of dogs in the country, lots of loose dogs, lots of loose dogs that bark!

Clareboy

I often hear rural dwellers speak about the importance of ' frontage ' , that is land with road frontage so that sites can be sold an' lots of money made. Indeed, many a young farmer's marriage prospects would depend on whether he has land with frontage. So boys, you got to have frontage, sure backage is no bloody good at all!

With that kind of mentality so prevalent, its no wonder that our country is in it's present chaotic state. In Ireland, a piece of land land is seen first and foremost as a potential building site rather than a place to produce food.

eth0

Clareboy wrote: »

I often hear rural dwellers speak about the importance of ' frontage ' , that is land with road frontage so that sites can be sold an' lots of money made. Indeed, many a young farmer's marriage prospects would depend on whether he has land with frontage. So boys, you got to have frontage, sure backage is no bloody good at all!

With that kind of mentality so prevalent, its no wonder that our country is in it's present chaotic state. In Ireland, a piece of land land is seen first and foremost as a potential building site rather than a place to produce food.

That was during the tiger. The tiger is well dead at this stage so you can stop going on about frontage

Clareboy

eth0 wrote: »

That was during the tiger. The tiger is well dead at this stage so you can stop going on about frontage

The widespread destruction of the Irish landscape began long before the Celtic Tiger was even born and is continuing.

eth0

Clareboy wrote: »

The widespread destruction of the Irish landscape began long before the Celtic Tiger was even born and is continuing.

If it is it's not from people building houses anyway, very few people at that carry on now