'Racist ' Comments

FTA69

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I can't give you a real life example

I can give you a million examples of white people calling black people n*ggers in a wholly negative sense. The vast, vast majority of black people would balk at white people using the term because it is a white supremacist tool. You could explain that you were simply being pally, but you wouldn't be long being set straight.

BurnsCarpenter

Ush1 wrote: »

So you believe it's a bad thing when a black person says it? Or do you believe it can't be derogatory when a black person says it?

My earlier post should have been phrased better. I don't have a problem with black people using the word.

It's possible that a self-hating or crazy black person could use it in a derogatory way but the vast majority of black usage of the word is in a different context.

caustic 1

es.

It is not ok for white people to use a hateful word which implies that there is something wrong with being black.
It is different when black people use the word. Oppressed groups (and others) sometimes 'reclaim' words which have been used to negatively describe them - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation

Can you see the difference?

I can see the difference but why should it be one rule for one and another for someone else, I mean either it is a bad word or not, you can't just chose to say oh we will make it a good word but feck sakes god luck to them if they use it, double standards.

Ush1

FTA69 wrote: »

He hasn't used the term. He doesn't use the term. You've been caught out on that one. Move on. If a white rapper did use the term it would be unacceptable. Because he's white. The context is different between a white person saying it and a black person because n*gger was originally a white supremacist tool.

White rappers don't use the term. Eminem certainly doesn't. So again, your point is nonsense.

You don't understand the meaning of the word hypothetical obviously. The context would be no different because if a white rapper was to say it in a song with Dr Dre for instance(again hypothetical), they would both be using the term interchangeably is exactly the same context describing the exact time thing. Eminem(or any number of white rappers) isn't Hugh Grant, and came from poverty himself. He would have had a less privileged existence than many black people. Example:

Eminem could be saying "cause my n*ggers got my back", Dr Dre might say "bust a cap in them n*ggers". Is there any context difference? Would Eminem be referring to white supremacy?? Would his intent and delivery be inherently racist???

FTA69 wrote: »

If they're using it in the context of internalised racism then, yes. If they're calling someone a "lazy ass nigga" or something then that's also negative. It's still a different context to a white person using it as the racial supremacist element doesn't exist; whereas it does when whites use it.

Whites may be using the term without racial supremacist meaning as I said previously. Black people and white people can use the terms exactly the same to describe the exact same things without any differing intent.

FTA69 wrote: »

Why? Because I don't think it acceptable for white people to call black people n*ggers? Not being a racist or being aware of the historical and social connotations of using the word doesn't make me a member of the "PC brigade".

No because you're trying overtly to defend something which doesn't make sense. As was said previously, many, many black people are extremely offended by the term if used by white people OR black people.

sbsquarepants

FTA69 wrote: »

I can give you a million examples of white people calling black people n*ggers in a wholly negative sense. The vast, vast majority of black people would balk at white people using the term because it is a white supremacist tool. You could explain that you were simply being pally, but you wouldn't be long being set straight.

You could say the same thing about the word queer for example, things change. And i suspect they are changing right now for the word nígger.

Here's an example of a white guy calling his black friends níggers without any racist insult whatsoever.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/04/who-can-use-the-word-nigga-david-foster/

Ush1

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

My earlier post should have been phrased better. I don't have a problem with black people using the word.

It's possible that a self-hating or crazy black person could use it in a derogatory way but the vast majority of black usage of the word is in a different context.

So by that train of thought, a white person using the word in a non derogatory way would not bother you? It's purely about intent of the word surely, rather than who is saying it.

Self hating may be more common than you think, the classic Uncle Tom character.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom

FTA69

You don't understand the meaning of the word hypothetical obviously.

So you've gone from falsely stating that white rappers use the term to back-peddaling and going on about "what if he said it though." He'd probably be called a gobsh*te if he did. Because white people using the term carries a certain weight, regardless of the context.

Whites may be using the term without racial supremacist meaning as I said previously

N*gger is a white supremacist term. No getting away from that fact. White man using white supremacist language is different from black man using white supremacist language.

No because you're trying overtly to defend something which doesn't make sense.

No, I'm pointing out the fact that the context is overwhelmingly different between black and white usage of the term. What doesn't make sense is you arguing that you should be allowed to call black people n*ggers because Dr Dre uses the term.

Ush1

FTA69 wrote: »

So you've gone from falsely stating that white rappers use the term to back-peddaling and going on about "what if he said it though." He'd probably be called a gobsh*te if he did. Because white people using the term carries a certain weight, regardless of the context.

Woah woah woah, didn't we say context was everything?? Also, who are you to say only white people using it carries a certain weight? Be okay if an Asian or black person says it? I think quite a few may still get upset.

FTA69 wrote: »

N*gger is a white supremacist term. No getting away from that fact. White man using white supremacist language is different from black man using white supremacist language.

Okay so your point is, it's just different........just because? And just ignoring everything else I said. I rest my case so.

FTA69 wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out the fact that the context is overwhelmingly different between black and white usage of the term. What doesn't make sense is you arguing that you should be allowed to call black people n*ggers because Dr Dre uses the term.

Interesting in a couple of paragraphs earlier you weren't interested in context when a white person says it.

Ah, and the last bastion, putting words in my mouth when it's exactly the opposite of my point.

Good day to you!

FTA69

Here's an example of a white guy calling his black friends níggers without any racist insult whatsoever.

Your man sounds like a dipsh*t to be honest about it. And he's trying to say that "n*gger" is now simply limited to the "hip hop community" when that's not the case. The word has far bigger connotations than that. He also bangs on about bloody Buddhism and how he "gets" life as a poor black person despite being a wealthy Jew from suburbia. He's an eejit. And I'd wager that most blacks would think he is as well.

Personally I can't understand why any black person would use the term. A young boxing coach in my club was using the term during one class and he was told to moderate his language by other coaches, black and white alike. The overwhelming history of the term is white supremacy, that's why it was coined and that's how it was used. It was only appropriated recently as part of "hip hop" or else sadly, as a case of black people regurgitating the same racism that was thrown at them for so long; something very common in all colonised peoples, including the Irish.

However, the general usage of the term by some black people; stupid or otherwise, is vastly different as it doesn't carry racist intonation. The vast, vast majority of times a white person uses the term, it usually does.

That sums my opinion up on it really.

BurnsCarpenter

Ush1 wrote: »

So by that train of thought, a white person using the word in a non derogatory way would not bother you? It's purely about intent of the word surely, rather than who is saying it.

It would certainly bother me a lot less.

But no, it's not just about intent. Who is saying it also matters. Black people are the ones that the word is 'aimed' at. It is a word traditionally used by white people in a derogatory way about black people. It is a loaded word. Therefore black usage and white usage of the word can not be the same.

You really can't see this?

FTA69

Ush1 wrote: »

Also, who are you to say only white people using it carries a certain weight? Be okay if an Asian or black person says it? I think quite a few may still get upset.

Non-black people using the term carries different weight. Go and use the term yourself and see the reaction you get. There's your proof in a nutshell. And it isn't because blacks have "double standards", rather white people using the term has different connotations.

Okay so your point is, it's just different........just because? And just ignoring everything else I said. I rest my case so.

It's like me calling my buddy a Mayo bastard in jest and an English foreman calling us "Paddies" or "thick Irish." The reason being that terminology coming from a Brit is rooted in something different entirely, and even if they are saying it in jest or meant nothing buy it, that language is coloured by a long, long history of negative association. Context again.

FTA69

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

It would certainly bother me a lot less.

But no, it's not just about intent. Who is saying it also matters. Black people are the ones that the word is 'aimed' at. It is a word traditionally used by white people in a derogatory way about black people. It is a loaded word. Therefore black usage and white usage of the word can not be the same.

You really can't see this?

It's amazing like. Some people just can't accept the fact that some groups in society have a sh*tter time than others. They honestly feel hard done by that they're not allowed use the term. It's gas.

Ush1

BurnsCarpenter wrote: »

It would certainly bother me a lot less.

But no, it's not just about intent. Who is saying it also matters. Black people are the ones that the word is 'aimed' at. It is a word traditionally used by white people in a derogatory way about black people. It is a loaded word. Therefore black usage and white usage of the word can not be the same.

You really can't see this?

No, I don't see it. Words change meaning all the time.

Why would it bother you more when a white person says the word with not any racist intent in the same way a black person would use it with no racist intent?

I really, really can't see that.

caustic 1

It's not a matter of not being allowed to use it, it's why? If it is such a derogatory term then surely it should not be used at all. To me the opposite side of the N debate would be whites being called K.K.K members you don't hear white people going round saying that to each other, because it is wrong.

Frank Lee Midere

The Irish KKK were the worst.

BurnsCarpenter

Ush1 wrote: »

No, I don't see it. Words change meaning all the time.

Why would it bother you more when a white person says the word with not any racist intent in the same way a black person would use it with no racist intent?

I really, really can't see that.

Yes, words evolve but we certainly aren't at the stage where the word has fully evolved so that it is interchangeable with 'pal' or 'bro'.

Like I've said the word is a racial slur, and it is loaded with meaning. And it's not equivalent. It's used by whites, against blacks.

It might conceivably be used in a less offensive 'my nigga' kind of context, and I'm sure there are black people who wouldn't even take offense.

But because of the very nature of the word, there is no equivalence between white and black usage.

sbsquarepants

FTA69 wrote: »

Your man sounds like a dipsh*t to be honest about it. And he's trying to say that "n*gger" is now simply limited to the "hip hop community" when that's not the case. The word has far bigger connotations than that. He also bangs on about bloody Buddhism and how he "gets" life as a poor black person despite being a wealthy Jew from suburbia. He's an eejit. And I'd wager that most blacks would think he is as well.

He sound like a bit of a plonker alright, but nonetheless he's living proof that the word can indeed be used by a white person with no racist overtones, and that was my point in a nutshell.
His skin colour does not pre-define his intent and nor does his friends pre-define their level of offence.