SYRIA WAR MEGATHREAD - Mod Note First Post

MonaPizza

Eight Ball wrote: »

Foil hat alert.

Beavis/Butthead alert

jank

MonaPizza wrote: »

Now this has to be one of the most ridiculous quips I've ever read.

"Yes, your honour. I understand the seriousness of the crime but I'd like to bring it to the court's attention the number of times my client DIDN'T drive home from work wasted on pills and alcohol and plough into a group of schoolkids at a bustop."

:pac:

What?

jank

MonaPizza wrote: »

Is it ever possible for apologists for imperialism to actually examine the facts without throwing in that little smear. It does your credibility zero favours.

Amazing you talk of examine facts when you offer none yourself in your anti-western tirade that amounts to a conspiracy theory. What next Lizard men?

MonaPizza

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I hate it when a thread is spoiled by facts.

Oh please!

It's when weasels like Blair, Sarkozy, Hillary, etc visit you for a cordial luncheon that you know you're fucked

sark_1852738c.jpg

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Source to say that 800,000 people died directly because of Western Intervention in Indonesia?

The US provided lists of communists and provided a "cloak of respectability" for the Suharto regime for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Indonesia

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Source to say that 800,000 people died directly because of Western Intervention in Indonesia?

You were talking about "western fiddling" earlier. Now its "directly because of Western Intervention"......I'd suggest unhanding those goal posts and backing away.

MonaPizza

jank wrote: »

Amazing you talk of examine facts when you offer none yourself in your anti-western tirade that amounts to a conspiracy theory. What next Lizard men?

What anti-western tirade?
What conspiracy theory?

The stated agenda of Western powers (with the US at the helm) is to control the global energy resources and with it the global economy.

The washed-down version for the bottom feeders is that they're "fightin' for freedom"

Fratton Fred

MonaPizza wrote: »

What anti-western tirade?
What conspiracy theory?

The stated agenda of Western powers (with the US at the helm) is to control the global energy resources and with it the global economy.

The washed-down version for the bottom feeders is that they're "fightin' for freedom"'

Thank God NATO are in Afghanistan, how would the west survive without securing all that lovely dust and sand.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

The US provided lists of communists and provided a "cloak of respectability" for the Suharto regime for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_Indonesia

500,000 != 800,000

Liamario

I would have said that they should be left to their own devices until the gas attack and seeing the bodies of small children lined up and lifeless.

They went too far and now there needs to be some form of intervention. The attitude that it's none of our business only goes so far. This is a very small planet and at some point, we have to take responsibility for the welfare of others where that can't take responsibility themselves.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

You were talking about "western fiddling" earlier. Now its "directly because of Western Intervention"......I'd suggest unhanding those goal posts and backing away.

Em, your the one that is posting falsehoods. I suggest you learn to get off that high horse of yours now and again.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

500,000 != 800,000

Estimates range from 500,000 to well over a million. I went for 800,000 as a compromise.

jank

MonaPizza wrote: »

What anti-western tirade?
What conspiracy theory?

The stated agenda of Western powers (with the US at the helm) is to control the global energy resources and with it the global economy.

The washed-down version for the bottom feeders is that they're "fightin' for freedom"

As I said, a conspiracy theory... There is a forum here for you you know.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Estimates range from 500,000 to well over a million. I went for 800,000 as a compromise.

What estimate?

karma_

jank wrote: »

Em, your the one that is posting falsehoods. I suggest you learn to get off that high horse of yours now and again.

Ironic when you consider that you have pretty much stepped off a high horse onto an ivory tower.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Em, your the one that is posting falsehoods. I suggest you learn to get off that high horse of yours now and again.

What "falsehood" have I posted?

You originally stated

The West has fiddled in............

this then changed to

directly because of Western Intervention

...it's clear you're trying a goal post shift.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

What estimate?

Estimates by various parties of the death toll in Indonesia.

clairefontaine

Liamario wrote: »

I would have said that they should be left to their own devices until the gas attack and seeing the bodies of small children lined up and lifeless.

They went too far and now there needs to be some form of intervention. The attitude that it's none of our business only goes so far. This is a very small planet and at some point, we have to take responsibility for the welfare of others where that can't take responsibility themselves.

The problem is the same old problem. To what ends? To what results? With what outcomes?

They aren't doing anything because they don't know what to do. Right now its just kinda sorta evidence, they can't confirm who used the weapons.

What's the west going to do, just drop a few bombs and hope for the best?

We know how that works out.

donegal_road

Great speech by George Galloway today in the House of Commons speaking for the 89% who are against strikes on Syria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIddCee7P0c

Jonny7

Well looks like the Brits are almost down and out- big split between Tories and Labour over this

clairefontaine

Liamario wrote: »

I would have said that they should be left to their own devices until the gas attack and seeing the bodies of small children lined up and lifeless.

They went too far and now there needs to be some form of intervention. The attitude that it's none of our business only goes so far. This is a very small planet and at some point, we have to take responsibility for the welfare of others where that can't take responsibility themselves.

The problem is the same old problem. To what ends? To what results? With what outcomes?

They aren't doing anything because they don't know what to do. Right now its just kinda sorta evidence, they can't confirm who used the weapons.

What's the west going to do, just drop a few bombs and hope for the best?

We know how that works out.

Highflyer13

Jonny7 wrote: »

Well looks like the Brits are almost down and out- big split between Tories and Labour over this

Big split between the Tories and Labour with 89% of people polled against an attack on Syria. It would be political suicide for Cameron to launch on Syria I think.

smurfjed

The west should stay out of it, let the Arab League sort it out.

Killer Wench

Oh wow. A naval battle. I didn't think it would happen in today's modern warfare.

http://www.france24.com/en/20130829-france-russia-warships-mediterranean-syria?ns_campaign=editorial&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=reseaux_sociaux&ns_fee=0&ns_linkname=20130829_france_russia_warships_mediterranean_syria

nacho libre

i think the british and us intelligence community will save the day for Cameron with their pronouncement that Assad's regime was "highly likely" to be responsible- or with words to that effect. i doubt russia will do anything in the event of a military attack, moving naval fleet to the med is posturing, they'll issue strong condemnation, and perhaps up the ante/hostility with America by forging closer links with countries America doesn't like and withdrawing co-operation with america on a host of other issues. i'd be more worry about what the iranians do. it maybe that ucdvet and other may begin to care if their pockets get considerably lighter at the petrol pumps as a consequences of military strikes by America and her allies.

My name is URL

Well the BBC are definitely backing intervention :eek:

Anyone watching the news atm? They showed pictures of victims of the chemical attack and said "this puts beyond doubt that the government is targeting its own civilians"

I guess a lack of impartiality is nothing new for them anyway...

awec

The Commons just voted it down the motion.

Grandpa Hassan

Thats a pretty sensational vote. It's difficult for Cameron now

Annasopra

That's unexpected that the Tories didn't back Cameron

donegal_road

My name is URL wrote: »

Well the BBC are definitely backing intervention :eek:

Anyone watching the news atm? They showed pictures of victims of the chemical attack and said "this puts beyond doubt that the government is targeting its own civilians"

I guess a lack of impartiality is nothing new for them anyway...

if anyone remembers the BBC's reportage during the Troubles, you will know their track record for wiping their feet in the truth when it suits them.

Gringo180

Bbc are a disgrace for the western propaganda.

Does this vote now mean that Britain cant use military force? Great result if true finally people are seeing war doesnt work.

Annasopra

Gringo180 wrote: »

Bbc are a disgrace for the western propaganda.

Does this vote now mean that Britain cant use military force? Great result if true finally people are seeing war doesnt work.

Cameron could overrule Parliament and use a Royal Prerogative to take Military Action - he said he won't do that though

Gringo180

mango salsa wrote: »

Cameron could overrule Parliament and use a Royal Prerogative to take Military Action - he said he won't do that though

What would the repercussions of such a move? Surely he would be ousted for going against parliament no? Delighted the majority are against the motion great resukt.

awec

I doubt this puts military intervention off the table permanently.

Gringo180

awec wrote: »

I doubt this puts military intervention off the table permanently.

Would there not be public uproar if he went against parliament and the majority of the public? Only 11% of the public are in favour of military action. Thats a staggering amount against intervention.

awec

Gringo180 wrote: »

Would there not be public uproar if he went against parliament and the majority of the public? Only 11% of the public are in favour of military action. Thats a staggering amount against intervention.

The outcome of the UN investigation or whatever it is will have an impact on what happens.

willmunny1990

Wonder how Obama will react to this.

U.S were always going to lead the way anyway so I wonder will they go ahead regardless.

Gringo180

awec wrote: »

The outcome of the UN investigation or whatever it is will have an impact on what happens.

But there only there to find out whether chemicals weapons where used or not, I dont think they are there to point the finger at who used them?? Personally I dont think the government would be that stupid to gas there own people.

Amirani

Apparently Obama is about to brief congress on the US intelligence report. Presumably there could be some activity at some point after this. Looks like it is going to be the US out on their own on this one though.

Gringo180

Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.

Karl Stein

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Wonder how Obama will react to this.

They won't care.

The US painted a line in the ground and it has been crossed. Even if they don't want to get involved they have to now or the Godfather loses face among his lieutenants and his rivals and enemies will be emboldened.

Amirani

Gringo180 wrote: »

Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.

How can they go in under the UN flag when the UN wouldn't support an invasion?

Means Of Escape

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Wonder how Obama will react to this.

U.S were always going to lead the way anyway so I wonder will they go ahead regardless.

He is talking about firing shots across Assads bow.
If the US gets involved the whole area will dissolve into anarchy and pull Iran into the fray.
God help us all.

Fratton Fred

Gringo180 wrote: »

Why cant they just go in under the UN flag and take all the chemical weapons off the Assad regime? Have the U.S not learned from past mistakes, that war just does not work. Look at the state Iraq is in for goodness sake.

They can only do that if the UN Security Council votes in favour of it. So far Russia have vetoed any motion that so much as criticises Assad.

Amirani

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/joe-bidens-case-that-waging-war-without-congress-is-an-impeachable-offense/279160/

Joe Biden (2007): "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

c_man

In cases like this and other sectarian strife zones, the solution is to shoot 'em all and let God sort them out.




Or you know, not entirely the trust the lads who lied to us about the last one.

Means Of Escape

Article in the Washington post stating that Iran and Syria more than capable of starting a cyber war.

We do not know the half of it.

seanie_c

Gringo180 wrote: »

But there only there to find out whether chemicals weapons where used or not, I dont think they are there to point the finger at who used them?? Personally I dont think the government would be that stupid to gas there own people.

Nor do I but there's a staggering amount of stupid people that think he would invite UN inspectors into the country and on the day they arrive, launch a chemical attack 15 km from where the inspectors are staying.

People actually believe that . . .they really do.

And I'll bet these same idiots think there are WMD in Iraq or maybe Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

RobertKK

This is so funny, I mean David Cameron and William Hague played their war drum beats and now had their drum sticks broken.
They should just resign.

Gringo180

seanie_c wrote: »

Nor do I but there's a staggering amount of stupid people that think he would invite UN inspectors into the country and on the day they arrive, launch a chemical attack 15 km from where the inspectors are staying.

People actually believe that . . .they really do.

And I'll bet these same idiots think there are WMD in Iraq or maybe Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

There brainwashed with all the propaganda there fed from fox news and the bbc. Idiots.