Geordie bouncer bodyslams man, caught on camera

Tombi!

MarkR, the only way I can see it being reasonable (now that I've thought about it) is even the bouncer believed the fella was a threat to his (or someone's life in the immediate area).

Unless the fella had a knife or threatened the bouncer with a stabbing or something, then you can assume that he wasn't a major threat that needed to be knocked out.

FTA69

Does anyone here think his response was appropriate, even assumingthat the other guy was being a drunken aggressive arse beforehand?

No, the appropriate thing would for the two doorman to restrain him on the ground. Your man lost his temper, apparently after being repeatedly attacked, and went for the scut in question. While not being the best course of action for him, I can sympathise with why he did it and it doesn't necessarily mean he's a violent maniacal thug either.

Regards the take down, your man was going hell-for-leather trying to attack him; you don't moralise about tactics in a fight like that.

Czarcasm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

But it's a street fight. It's not a sanctioned fight with rules.

This is the problem though with people that learn the physical techniques of self-defence without due regard to the mental discipline. It's only in recent years that Eastern Martial Arts have been adopted by the West as self-defence techniques and sports. The martial arts are a way of life, not just a combat sport or a self-defence class.

There's a difference between the disciplined aspect in trying to avoid a fight and using your fighting skills only in defense.

Which giving that Mak is a fairly huge fella, you could safely assume that if someone did have the balls to attack him, they're trying to do serious harm.

I'd say Mak would admit himself that BECAUSE of his sheer size he often gets "hard lads" testing their mettle and trying to start him, the same lads that wouldn't knock snow off a rope.

A street fight is still far different. While the powerbomb/slam whatever was way too far, you're not thinking straight in a fight.

This isn't you and the world champion going at it for the gold medal. It's going at it with someone that is trying to fight you. And not "win" in a contest.

A street fight, a sports arena, the DoJo, doesn't matter, the same principles and discipline apply, no matter what fighting style is used. That's why it annoys me when I hear lads talking about what's the best fighting style in a street fight, etc (my own background is in Judo, Taekwondo and Kenpo), but you'll hear lads talk about Krav Maga, Bushido and Muay Thai, etc like they're the best thing since sliced pan. They have no respect for the origins of these fighting styles and the mental discipline involved.

MMA is a ball of shìte. There. I said it. Oiled up muscle bound brutes fannying about with each other like it's some sort of white collar fighting club. That's where the likes of a thug bouncer like the one in the video come from and that's why I'd say he regularly gets his ass handed to him in the pit - because he let his aggression control his actions instead of having the mental discipline to temper his aggression and focus his mind. You don't neutralise the threat or overcome your opponent using brute strength or technique alone. You keep a cool head and use your brain.


That's an embarrassing indictment of MMA actually - a sober MMA trained fighter couldn't restrain a drunken fool, when he could've used any of the techniques Mak described above. The bouncer suffering from bystander effect was just as incompetent.

Eight Ball

Love it. If ya can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

bumper234

Czarcasm wrote: »

This is the problem though with people that learn the physical techniques of self-defence without due regard to the mental discipline. It's only in recent years that Eastern Martial Arts have been adopted by the West as self-defence techniques and sports. The martial arts are a way of life, not just a combat sport or a self-defence class.





I'd say Mak would admit himself that BECAUSE of his sheer size he often gets "hard lads" testing their mettle and trying to start him, the same lads that wouldn't knock snow off a rope.





A street fight, a sports arena, the DoJo, doesn't matter, the same principles and discipline apply, no matter what fighting style is used. That's why it annoys me when I hear lads talking about what's the best fighting style in a street fight, etc (my own background is in Judo, Taekwondo and Kenpo), but you'll hear lads talk about Krav Maga, Bushido and Muay Thai, etc like they're the best thing since sliced pan. They have no respect for the origins of these fighting styles and the mental discipline involved.

MMA is a ball of shìte. There. I said it. Oiled up muscle bound brutes fannying about with each other like it's some sort of white collar fighting club. That's where the likes of a thug bouncer like the one in the video come from and that's why I'd say he regularly gets his ass handed to him in the pit - because he let his aggression control his actions instead of having the mental discipline to temper his aggression and focus his mind. You don't neutralise the threat or overcome your opponent using brute strength or technique alone. You keep a cool head and use your brain.


That's an embarrassing indictment of MMA actually - a sober MMA trained fighter couldn't restrain a drunken fool, when he could've used any of the techniques Mak described above. The bouncer suffering from bystander effect was just as incompetent.

I'm sorry but that's probably the most condescending ball of shìte I have ever read on these forums.

Overheal

demanufactured wrote: »

That was completely deserved..he should have picked him up and slammed him a second time...then an elbow drop off the car roof for good measure.

where do you get the justification for that? Please explain

arybvtcw0eolkf

Czarcasm wrote: »

Not when you completely disregard the philosophy of Judo and concentrate only on the combat element Mak. I mean, I could do all that too, but the self-discipline and mental discipline it takes NOT to do that is what makes Judo "the gentle way".





Your military career will also have taught you about self-control and discipline.





Ahh come on, you saw the piss poor effort the bouncer made at a leg sweep/low kick on the guy. If he'd put his body behind it that leg sweep should've taken the guy down. Then they wouldn't have gotten into any grappling match and certainly the bouncer went OTT in dropping the guy on a surface like the pavement. That's why they have absorbtion mats in training - a fcuk up like that could kill somebody.

You make it sound like YOU'RE the one who this this training and work almost daily and not me.. I bow to your wisdom of experience and hindsight.

OldRio

Makes a change from punching horses.

Ironman76

demanufactured wrote: »

That was completely deserved..he should have picked him up and slammed him a second time...then an elbow drop off the car roof for good measure.

Overheal wrote: »

where do you get the justification for that? Please explain

Well only one slam leaves open the possibility that said scumbag could roll out of the way as the "flying elbow off the top" lands.

Overheal

Ironman76 wrote: »

Well only one slam leaves open the possibility that said scumbag could roll out of the way as the "flying elbow off the top" lands.

Instead of ridiculing just how stupid this comment was, Im going to ignore it, and continue waiting for the original commentator to respond

Czarcasm

bumper234 wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's probably the most condescending ball of shìte I have ever read on these forums.

I won't apologise for my response falling well below the AH ACME standard of OTT faux violence.

Pile driving, body slamming "scumbags" is a completely appropriate response when dealing with a cheeky bastard.


(I'd better make it clear the above was sarcasm in case anyone thinks I was actually serious!)

Madisyn Ambitious Snowmobile wrote: »

You make it sound like YOU'RE the one who this this training and work almost daily and not me.. I bow to your wisdom of experience and hindsight.

Madisyn Ambitious Snowmobile I don't believe you'd ever perform such a dangerous manoeuvre in such an incompetent fashion on a patron of your club.

Dempsey

bumper234 wrote: »

Have you ever been attacked? How did you find the time to call the police in the middle of it?

bumper234 wrote: »

Exactly what i said i blame the guy watching more than the bouncer fighting. What he did was overboard but at that stage we don't know how many times this guy had already attacked him and he may at this stage be thinking h has to do something drastic to stop this guy.

Usually bouncers are mic'd up to communicate with each other, he could have easily told someone else to ring the guards if this guy wouldnt go away and waited or restrained him. His buddy could have rang them, he was just standing around ready to jump in if he's mate was getting bettered.

FTA69

Czarcasm wrote: »

Seriously Czarcasm, I'm not trying to be patronising or be a dick but you don't know what you're on about when it comes to this sort of thing and it's fairly easy to deduce that by reading your posts to be honest.

It's only in recent years that Eastern Martial Arts have been adopted by the West as self-defence techniques and sports. The martial arts are a way of life, not just a combat sport or a self-defence class.

Boxing and wrestling are martial arts that have existed in the West for thousands of years. Most of the ancient mysticism lark people like to attach to Oriental martial arts was invented in the West as a marketing ploy and popularised in kung fu films. Bruce Lee himself thought that stuff was a load of sh*te and advocated a practical philosophy with regard to martial arts.

A street fight, a sports arena, the DoJo, doesn't matter, the same principles and discipline apply, no matter what fighting style is used.

Nope. And that's the stuff that gets you killed. When I spar in the gym I know my partner will let me pick up my mouthpiece when it falls on the ground. I know he's not going to elbow me in the face, stamp on my head or try and bite my ear off. There are very, very different principles at work and the situations are not in any way comparable. The "don't be dick" rule applies throughout every aspect of life, it doesn't mean you have to act like a bloody Shaolin monk when some scrote keeps repeatedly attacking you.

but you'll hear lads talk about Krav Maga, Bushido and Muay Thai, etc like they're the best thing since sliced pan. They have no respect for the origins of these fighting styles and the mental discipline involved.

Bugger all spiritual aspect to Krav Maga and Bushido is a Japanese philosophy, not a martial art. Anyone serious or competitive in Muay Thai will become aware of the history and cultural aspects of it (wai khru etc) but at the end of the day Muay Thai is a commercial sport where anything that doesn't work gets discarded immediately. Nak Muay fight for money and to feed their families as much as anything else, some of them are professional at 13.

MMA is a ball of shìte. There. I said it.

You don't know what you're on about.

Oiled up

Doesn't happen.

muscle bound brutes

Not the case. Most fighters come in at less than 13 stone.

fannying about with each other like it's some sort of white collar fighting club.

Fannying about? You do realise that MMA is simply a mix of most of the styles you're so keen to venerate? Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is simply an evolved form of ground-based Judo. Muay Thai and boxing are well represented as is American wrestling. There's no magic formula to it and they train like demons. It's a highly skilled sport that demands the utmost dedication. I went into an MMA gym with a few years boxing behind me and thought I'd be the business. Biggest wake up call I ever got.

his ass handed to him in the pit

The pit? This is ridiculous! Do you think MMA gyms are like something out of Bloodsport or something? Loads of Chinesemen gambling and smoking etc? Dipping fists into broken glass? It isn't cockfighting bud. They train on mats or in a conventional ring.

That's an embarrassing indictment of MMA actually

I saw a YouTube video of two Travellers fighting in a carpark, is that an indictment of boxing?

- a sober MMA trained fighter couldn't restrain a drunken fool

Restraining someone isn't easy, least of all when they're trying their best to punch the sh*t out of you.

bumper234

Dempsey wrote: »

Usually bouncers are mic'd up to communicate with each other, he could have easily told someone else to ring the guards if this guy wouldnt go away and waited or restrained him. His buddy could have rang them, he was just standing around ready to jump in if he's mate was getting bettered.

Or maybe he was working the door alone? Or the guy watching WAS his backup?

Dempsey

bumper234 wrote: »

Or maybe he was working the door alone? Or the guy watching WAS his backup?

No. A bouncer can request assistance to the door, he can ask someone else to call the police before kicking out at yer man. There was clearly another bouncer in the video doing nothing to defuse the situation. Do you really think a nightclub has a bouncer working alone and dont communicate regularly with each other?

bumper234

Dempsey wrote: »

No. A bouncer can request assistance to the door, he can ask someone else to call the police before kicking out at yer man. There was clearly another bouncer in the video doing nothing to defuse the situation. Do you really think a nightclub has a bouncer working alone and dont communicate regularly with each other?

Was it a club or a pub? The last 4 years i worked as a doorman before i retired i was on my own. who would i have got to call the police in his situation. I agree the other doorman was useless and if anything he is the one i blame for the whole situation getting to it's messy conclusion.

truebluesac

Havent read through all the comments , but from the few i have i would have a few points to add ,
From the law point of view there is no differance made between any individual weither they work as a doorman or as a nurse in an A&E .everybody has the right to defend themselfs with the approiate amount of force ,

Nobody goes to work to be victims of assualt no matter where they work or what there job discription is , however some professions have a higher possibility of violance and aggression and de-escalation techniques should be taught , and this is the case in english door staff ,

A martial artist doesnt have to warn others of his training infact it has been proven that this may futher push the assilant to "have a go " they are not limited to the force they can use aslong as it has been deemed approiate force .

Martial arts have been training here since the 50's and kenpo in ireland has been around since the 60's and thebtraining was hard back then .

Assault or the treat of assuult is cause to defend oneself , once trethened you can ligitametly defend yourself . In otherwords if the intent is there you do not have to wait to be hit ,

The second doorman to me seemed to be making sure that nobody else was to blindside either he or the other doorman . Acceptable in my eyes as if the 2 were to lock on to the blue shirted man and he be injured the appropriate amount of force has been lost by being out numbered

From looking at the video it only picks up at a point and the prior events are lost to us . However it does show the blue shirted man aggesively walking towards the doorman . To which the altercation takes place . At any stage the blue shirted man had ample time to back away . There was 1 point where he had the doorman up against the car . If he really wanted to he had a chance to walk away .

This was a sustained attack/ altercation it showed no prospect of ending in a peaceful way , im in 2 minds weather it was excessive force , i think the doorman didnt think the blue shirted man would land on his head , but there you go he did

Im not defending the doorman but reading backk tro this it may sound like it ,

If the blue shirted guy had of picked the doorman up and slammed him would we all be laughing at him ????

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dempsey wrote: »

No. A bouncer can request assistance to the door, he can ask someone else to call the police before kicking out at yer man. There was clearly another bouncer in the video doing nothing to defuse the situation. Do you really think a nightclub has a bouncer working alone and dont communicate regularly with each other?

I mostly work alone, a few people here know me and would be regulars where I work.

I'm also in Dublin's Templebar area, so I'm pretty busy.

You can't really call the cops every time someone threatens to kick off, you've to wait until it does, deal with the situation then call them or have someone else call.

Rarely but it does happen, someone might loiter outside issuing threats for awhile, in this case its acceptable to call the cops and have them moved on.

But the bouncer in the clip isn't working alone, he had his useless buddy with him who should have helped restrain the punter.

Even with all the martial arts training in the world its not easy to gently restrain a violent person, you have to step things up a few levels above the person who's fighting you to beat them ~ thats how fights are won.

Something else which is new to most here, something which can never be replicated in the martial arts club environment is 'violent intend', it simply can not be replicated because the people you're training with and even competing again are always going to be governed by a rule set, and while the intention might be to KO your opponent in the ring/cage/mat its rarely violent.

The bouncer in the clip is also a trained fighter, MMA I believe but I don't know if he has a background in anything else (most do).. If he truely wanted to be violent and f*ck up this guys night I'm absolutely positive he'd have hardly broke a sweat doing it, I've said it earlier I think he acted with a lot of restraint and done very well.. His mate on the other hand, he failed his buddy and let an altercation escalate to this point ~ he's the one I'd be chatting to.

truebluesac

Iv read through most of the posts now . It doesnt change anything in my above post but i would add to it that at some point the other doorman should have tried to step in to difuse the situation , in many cases this would have avoided the resulting ruchas .

I would also say that was pointed out by others there are no rules in street fighting . If the doorman had of been dropped would the blue shirted man have had the respect to walk away or would he have kicke the doorman while he was down etc etc .

If you eneter a street fight willingly you should bear the cosiquences of whatever the outcome .

This also goes for the doorman , whatever hes dished out now he should accept

Dempsey

Madisyn Ambitious Snowmobile wrote: »

I mostly work alone, a few people here know me and would be regulars where I work.

I'm also in Dublin's Templebar area, so I'm pretty busy.

You can't really call the cops every time someone threatens to kick off, you've to wait until it does, deal with the situation then call them or have someone else call.

Rarely but it does happen, someone might loiter outside issuing threats for awhile, in this case its acceptable to call the cops and have them moved on.

But the bouncer in the clip isn't working alone, he had his useless buddy with him who should have helped restrain the punter.

Even with all the martial arts training in the world its not easy to gently restrain a violent person, you have to step things up a few levels above the person who's fighting you to beat them ~ thats how fights are won.

Something else which is new to most here, something which can never be replicated in the martial arts club environment is 'violent intend', it simply can not be replicated because the people you're training with and even competing again are always going to be governed by a rule set, and while the intention might be to KO your opponent in the ring/cage/mat its rarely violent.

The bouncer in the clip is also a trained fighter, MMA I believe but I don't know if he has a background in anything else (most do).. If he truely wanted to be violent and f*ck up this guys night I'm absolutely positive he'd have hardly broke a sweat doing it, I've said it earlier I think he acted with a lot of restraint and done very well.. His mate on the other hand, he failed his buddy and let an altercation escalate to this point ~ he's the one I'd be chatting to.

Would you be working alone on the door of a nightclub? I dont think so

This lad had a couple of goes at the bouncer according to reports, he should have called the cops instead of getting into a brawl.

As I said earlier, he could have taken other courses of action that didnt end with him smashing someone head first into the pavement. He should do jail time and that other bouncer should lose his licence imo

bumper234

Dempsey wrote: »

Would you be working alone on the door of a nightclub? I dont think so

This lad had a couple of goes at the bouncer according to reports, he should have called the cops instead of getting into a brawl.

As I said earlier, he could have taken other courses of action that didnt end with him smashing someone head first into the pavement. He should do jail time and that other bouncer should lose his licence imo

Which doors have you worked and for how many years? How many times have you been attacked while working? when was the last time you were in a situation like that? I am going to guess never because if you had been there is no way you would be coming up with these absurd accusations of having time to call the police.

Scenario: What if there is a fight inside? This guy is thrown out and the other doormen are back inside dealing with whatever is happening...now he is on his own as his backup is otherwise occupied (this has happened to me twice) What should the doorman do now? Ask him nicely to wait for his backup to arrive?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dempsey wrote: »

Would you be working alone on the door of a nightclub? I dont think so

Yes I do.. I work from eight to ten alone, then from ten to three am I've someone on the door with me.

Like I said a few AH regulars know me and drink there so I can't be spoofing.. Three boards users wrecked my motorbike outside the club a few months ago because I refused to let them in after the bar was closed ~ in fact they kncked over four motorbikes outside, they know I know who they are and haven't been back ~ they're not entirely f*cking stupid

Dempsey

bumper234 wrote: »

Which doors have you worked and for how many years? How many times have you been attacked while working? when was the last time you were in a situation like that? I am going to guess never because if you had been there is no way you would be coming up with these absurd accusations of having time to call the police.

Scenario: What if there is a fight inside? This guy is thrown out and the other doormen are back inside dealing with whatever is happening...now he is on his own as his backup is otherwise occupied (this has happened to me twice) What should the doorman do now? Ask him nicely to wait for his backup to arrive?

In the scenario where a man was piledrived into the ground head first, there was opportunity to deal with it in several other ways.

bumper234

Dempsey wrote: »

In the scenario where a man was piledrived into the ground head first, there was opportunity to deal with it in several other ways.

And you know this because you have how many years experience dealing with these kind of situations? Please explain the "several" ways that this could have been dealt with. Also just because you keep saying "piledrive" does not mean that was a piledrive.

bumper234

Piledrive

Body slam

It was a badly executed body slam not a piledriver.

Dempsey

bumper234 wrote: »

And you know this because you have how many years experience dealing with these kind of situations? Please explain the "several" ways that this could have been dealt with. Also just because you keep saying "piledrive" does not mean that was a piledrive.

I already explained what I think himself and the other bouncer should have done to deal with the situation. It doesnt involve doing what that bouncer did.

Oh sorry, not a piledriver, a falling slam would be a more appropriate description. It doesnt really matter what way is the best way to describe it, whats important is that he was picked up and thrown head first at the pavement.

You're posts just reek of, "oh look at me, I'm a bouncer" tbh :rolleyes:

bumper234

Dempsey wrote: »

I already explained what I think himself and the other bouncer should have done to deal with the situation. It doesnt involve doing what that bouncer did.

Oh sorry, not a piledriver, a falling slam would be a more appropriate description. It doesnt really matter what way is the best way to describe it, whats important is that he was picked up and thrown head first at the pavement.

You're posts just reek of, "oh look at me, I'm a bouncer" tbh :rolleyes:

Explaining how you THINK something should be handled and actually being able to handle something that way are 2 different things. I am not a bouncer anymore but forgive me if my 20 years experience of dealing with these situations gets in the way of your little bleeding heart liberal rant.

mattjack

Madisyn Ambitious Snowmobile wrote: »

Yes I do.. I work from eight to ten alone, then from ten to three am I've someone on the door with me.

Like I said a few AH regulars know me and drink there so I can't be spoofing.. Three boards users wrecked my motorbike outside the club a few months ago because I refused to let them in after the bar was closed ~ in fact they kncked over four motorbikes outside, they know I know who they are and haven't been back ~ they're not entirely f*cking stupid

I'll be in Temple on Saturday , I would like to challenge you to a duel.

Ill be the person wearing the kebab/cheese burger etc on my shirt.

arybvtcw0eolkf

bumper234 wrote: »

I am not a bouncer anymore but forgive me if my 20 years experience of dealing with these situations gets in the way of your little bleeding heart liberal rant.

Did you enjoy your time on the doors?.

I'm at it 20yrs +/- and love it, I'm still getting the same buzz from it after all these years.. And for the amount of bad pricks we meet the majority of genuinely good people I meet more than make up for the bad.

I'm 47yrs old now and still loving it, once or twice I've tried to retire but I can't get away from the craic and buzz.

arybvtcw0eolkf

mattjack wrote: »

I'll be in Temple on Saturday , I would like to challenge you to a duel.

Ill be the person wearing the kebab/cheese burger etc on my shirt.

Grand just don't put it on mine!.

If you're in Templebar and want to drop around drop me PM and I'll throw a pint or two into your hand!.