Skoda/Hyundai/Kia estate. Which is better?

ba_barabus

Jesus. wrote: »

I've never drank urine but I know it'd taste like piss.

Mind over matter son.

Jesus. wrote: »

Its just opinions at the end of the day.

That it is and I'll be the first to admit I thought the engine would be shyte before I drove it. I came away very surprised and I've enjoyed every time I've driven it. As this one will be serviced bang on time every time I'm happy it won't suffer from the usual Irish problem of neglect.

sdanseo

1.2 in a car like that is a terrible choice. It'll be horrifically underpowered and get well less MPG than claimed. The car will simply be too heavy for the engine.

Not to mention the poor performance in terms of actual power and acceleration - it'll be boring to drive.

Go for at LEAST a 1.6. Petrol and Diesel are 5c different in price at the pump and some Petrol cars out there will get very reasonable mileage - given the difference in price on the road there is no absolute need to get a Diesel for the sake of it being "more economical".

Jesus.

ba_barabus wrote: »

I came away very surprised and I've enjoyed every time I've driven it. .

I probably would too, I'm just old-fashioned and stubborn!

Oi Barabbus, any idea as to why my images on the "Exotic Police Cars" thread are now only coming up as small wee things when my previous pictures were grand and big?

Tea 1000

Jesus. wrote: »

I probably would too, I'm just old-fashioned and stubborn!

Oi Barabbus, any idea as to why my images on the "Exotic Police Cars" thread are now only coming up as small wee things when my previous pictures were grand and big?

We've discussed this already... size doesn't matter... smaller is better!

Jesus.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

We've discussed this already... size doesn't matter... smaller is better!

I knew someone would say that!! :pac::P:D

delly

And after all of those (slightly) off topic posts....

OP, I've spent a bit of time over the last few months picking out a fleet purchase in this exact class. Although a good warranty wasn't the only requirement, it was high on the list. I was very surprised at how little warranty was given on most brands that pretty much ruled most of them out. In the end it came down to the ceed and i30 which both have good reps while fulfilling our requirements. The KIA won out in the end on a couple of points, but most noteworthy being that the KIA has the 128bhp 1.6 engine over the 110bhp 1.6 in the i30.

colm_mcm

The spec on the kia seems better overall really.

rocky

i'd go skoda meself, but only with DSG.

Drove a rental 105bhp manual golf for a weekend and was surprised how linearly it pulls from about 1500 rpm. 4 adults and 1 baby, no bother.

odckdo

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.

The main reason I am looking at an estate is that I need a larger boot for transporting dogs - not necessarily people! Also I mainly do local trips - maybe every 1 or 2 months a motorway trip to Dublin. My 3 year Golf has only 15,000 Km. (Previously I was told on boards with that mileage to get a bike!)

I like the look of the Hyundai i30 estate but with the Skoda estate I can get a 1.2 TSI petrol which would work out cheaper. Also I was told before that with my low mileage a diesel wouldn't suit as I would need to give the car a good run every week.

I understand what you are saying about having a bigger engine for a bigger car. But with my low mileage, local trips and lower load would the 1.2 TSI 86bph not do? Why would Skoda have such a engine available if it couldn't do a job?

Also I have to check if the Octavia saloon boot might work for my dogs i.e. will they be able to sit/stand up? Years ago when I first enquired about a Skoda estate, a dealer told me there would be a better resale market for the saloon.

Thanks for all the advice!

colm_mcm

odckdo wrote: »

I understand what you are saying about having a bigger engine for a bigger car. But with my low mileage, local trips and lower load would the 1.2 TSI 86bph not do? Why would Skoda have such a engine available if it couldn't do a job?
!

This is skoda, part of Volkswagen. Who as well as producing some cracking engines, are also responsible for some disgracefully underpowered cars.
People will still buy them though.
Drive one and see if it suits you, but don't assume that they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't up to the job.

spank_inferno

I've driven the Yeti with the 105hp 1.2 litre engine... I was quite impressed.

The Octavia is similar to the Yeti.

I'd have no issue with it.
(Though the 1.2 86hp may prove less capable).

Poulgorm

Turbo charged petrol engines are quite heavy on petrol. The Euro NCAP figures for almost all cars are misleading, but for turbo charged petrol engined cars, they are even worse.

bazz26

The OP is doing small mileage so fuel costs should not be a huge concern.

sdanseo

bazz26 wrote: »

The OP is doing small mileage so fuel costs should not be a huge concern.

Exactly - the driving experience and general performance should be. If fuel economy was the overriding concern I'd still maintain at least a 1.6 however as I'm simply not convinced that my own 1.6 Opel has any better performance than its 1.8 Petrol counterpart - the engine, I'm almost certain, is too small for the weight of the car, especially at high load.

odckdo wrote: »

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.
I understand what you are saying about having a bigger engine for a bigger car. But with my low mileage, local trips and lower load would the 1.2 TSI 86bph not do? Why would Skoda have such a engine available if it couldn't do a job?

Of course it will do the job - but it will be boring and horrible to drive and have poorer overtaking performance for the times when you do motorway runs and so on.

1.2 L in that sort of a vehicle is inadequate for the average driver, in my opinion. It's like buying a small breakfast roll and calling it a fry-up - it ain't good enough

odckdo

I just found out from another dog owner that the boot in the Octavia saloon might give enough room for my dogs to move around. So next step is to test drive one.

I know what you are saying about a bigger engine for a bigger car like an estate. Does that also apply to a Octavia saloon?

To keep costs down and also because a diesel might not suit my low mileage/short trips, could I get away with a 1.2 TSI 105bhp. Maybe the driving experience might not be as good in a 1.2 but the number of long trips I do in a year I could count in 2 hands!

(If it makes a difference, I see on the Skoda website that the new Octavia is 100kg lighter.)

spank_inferno

As I mentioned, the same engine was very well received in the Yeti which is a heavy enough car & based on the older & heavier generation Octavia.

Test it and see.... If you can't find a demo model, the same engine can also be found in the Rapid & some Fabias.

bazz26

The Octavia is a hatchback not a saloon.

Jesus.

odckdo wrote: »

I know what you are saying about a bigger engine for a bigger car like an estate. Does that also apply to a Octavia saloon?To keep costs down and also because a diesel might not suit my low mileage/short trips, could I get away with a 1.2 TSI 105bhp.)

If you want to keep costs down, why not go for a year or two older car with a decent engine in it? The money you'll save in the purchase price will make up for higher tax and fuel costs.

sdanseo

odckdo wrote: »

I just found out from another dog owner that the boot in the Octavia saloon might give enough room for my dogs to move around. So next step is to test drive one.

I know what you are saying about a bigger engine for a bigger car like an estate. Does that also apply to a Octavia saloon?

To keep costs down and also because a diesel might not suit my low mileage/short trips, could I get away with a 1.2 TSI 105bhp. Maybe the driving experience might not be as good in a 1.2 but the number of long trips I do in a year I could count in 2 hands!

(If it makes a difference, I see on the Skoda website that the new Octavia is 100kg lighter.)

Jesus. wrote: »

If you want to keep costs down, why not go for a year or two older car with a decent engine in it? The money you'll save in the purchase price will make up for higher tax and fuel costs.

He's answered your question for me.

You'd be like the person who gets a free upgrade on their mobile phone, and picks a Nokia Brick instead of a free iPhone because "ah sure I wouldn't use it". Pointless

odckdo

A few years ago when buying a Golf, I was told that with low mileage, small local trips and the fact the car could be left idle a couple of days a week, that a petrol would suit better. In the end I bought a 1.2 TSI 86 BHP and I have had no problems.

With a diesel I was told there might be problems with my low mileage and I would have to take it on a long drive now & again (for whatever reason). Does this issue still apply with diesels in general? What about Octavia diesel's?

vectra

odckdo wrote: »

A few years ago when buying a Golf, I was told that with low mileage, small local trips and the fact the car could be left idle a couple of days a week, that a petrol would suit better. In the end I bought a 1.2 TSI 86 BHP and I have had no problems.

With a diesel I was told there might be problems with my low mileage and I would have to take it on a long drive now & again (for whatever reason). Does this issue still apply with diesels in general? What about Octavia diesel's?

On my third octavia vRS diesel and never a problem.
I do extremely small mileage and like you was told it would be detremental and problematic.

My theory is drive it as it should be driven and not snail around.

GTE

It is down to perspective, something that is subjective and can conflict with peoples different needs or more correctly, wants.

My 89hp Golf Estate 133 kg heavier than the new Octavia 1.2 103hp estate.
My car is not the most nippy on the motorway but pulls well for normal driving.
My car is to be fair, quite pokey for city driving.

Chances are, I have lost a few horses and a bit of torque in the 14 years of the cars life but it is not slow and definitely not underpowered for day to day driving.

Unless there is actually something in being as simple as a 1.2 being too small for a car of that weight and a larger engine size is being recommended, then I would say that there is more going on.

Old Golf Estate at this time:
<89hp
<210Nm
1305kg weight

New Octavia Estate:
103hp
175Nm
1172kg weight

So how can the argument that a new 1.2 is too small for a car of that weight stand up when it is broadly similar to a 1.9 from 14 years ago when that car has no issues in terms of being underpowered for any situation?

Well, it can't! I think what needs realising is that engine technology has advanced much more in recent years than before and that the power required for a perfectly reasonable day to day runner has not changed in a very long time if ever really so as time goes on, the engine size can very well get smaller for catering for the same requirements.

colm_mcm

Those are peak figures though bbk. A 100hp 1.6 petrol in your car wouldn't feel as quick as your 89hp tdi.

Tea 1000

vectra wrote: »

On my third octavia vRS diesel and never a problem.
I do extremely small mileage and like you was told it would be detremental and problematic.

My theory is drive it as it should be driven and not snail around.

It's not the amount of miles you do in a diesel, it's what type of miles. All city centre stop/start = bad, out in the open = grand and give them plenty of right boot when conditions allow!

Jesus.

bbk wrote: »

So how can the argument that a new 1.2 is too small for a car of that weight stand up when it is broadly similar to a 1.9 from 14 years ago when that car has no issues in terms of being underpowered for any situation?Well, it can't!

Well it does! Because your idea of adequate power (1,300kg, 89hp) is for the birds mate. That power to weight ratio is sheite.

Just as much as the guy wanting to buy a Yeti with a similar paltry amount of power for a fairly heavy car.

ba_barabus

Jesus. wrote: »

Well it does! Because your idea of adequate power (1,300kg, 89hp) is for the birds mate. That power to weight ratio is sheite.

Just as much as the guy wanting to buy a Yeti with a similar paltry amount of power for a fairly heavy car.

The Yeti drives fine with the TSI engine.

If you test drove one you'd know. But you haven't so you can't back up your answer with real world experience. The gearbox is properly set up to give sprightly performance at slower speeds and a long 6th gear for the motorway.

I'm not saying its a sports car engine but it gives much better performance than you think.

I'd advise you go try one before being so eager to rubbish it.

Tea 1000

Jesus. wrote: »

Well it does! Because your idea of adequate power (1,300kg, 89hp) is for the birds mate. That power to weight ratio is sheite.

Just as much as the guy wanting to buy a Yeti with a similar paltry amount of power for a fairly heavy car.

I think there are two slightly different view points on the same arguement going on here.
In one sense you are correct, that power to weight ratio is poor if you're looking for a car with decent shove.
The flip side of the argument is that given what these engines are replacing, then you need to compare like-for-like.
In many cases these new smaller engines are actually better than the older larger ones they are replacing. But you need to look at it on a comparitive basis.
The 1 litre Ecoboost Mondeo will be replacing the base 1.6 N/A petrol. So they're taking a slow, not-so-economical car and replacing it with a slow, slightly more economical car with much lower emissions to pass the ever stricter Euro tests. Neither engine are in any way a comparison for the 163bhp diesel Mondeo, so comparing is pointless.

odckdo

Lads, thanks for all the advice so far.

I don't know much about cars so I was wondering could someone tell me what I should get for my car as a trade-in against a new Octavia estate?

2011 Golf 1.2 TSI Trendline 85bhp 17,000km - purchased new and in perfect condition.

For the same Golf, online dealers have prices going from €15,500 to €17,000. Seems to depend on mileage. (I know I won't get those prices.)

Jesus.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I think there are two slightly different view points on the same arguement going on here.In one sense you are correct, that power to weight ratio is poor if you're looking for a car with decent shove.The flip side of the argument is that given what these engines are replacing, then you need to compare like-for-like. In many cases these new smaller engines are actually better than the older larger ones they are replacing. But you need to look at it on a comparitive basis.The 1 litre Ecoboost Mondeo will be replacing the base 1.6 N/A petrol. So they're taking a slow, not-so-economical car and replacing it with a slow, slightly more economical car with much lower emissions to pass the ever stricter Euro tests. Neither engine are in any way a comparison for the 163bhp diesel Mondeo, so comparing is pointless.

That's a very good post. Good points in there.

I suppose the only thing left to say in this regard would be that I'd be concerned about such a small unit replacing a larger one like in the Mondeo, even if it did have the same power, because would the engine not be put under more stress and perhaps be worn down over time leading to problems with longevity?

ba_barabus

Jesus. wrote: »

That's a very good post. Good points in there.

I suppose the only thing left to say in this regard would be that I'd be concerned about such a small unit replacing a larger one like in the Mondeo, even if it did have the same power, because would the engine not be put under more stress and perhaps be worn down over time leading to problems with longevity?

Only time will tell. I know with the TSI in our family it will be covering small mileage and be getting a full and proper service annually when its due.

That's all one can do.

Tea 1000

Jesus. wrote: »

That's a very good post. Good points in there.

I suppose the only thing left to say in this regard would be that I'd be concerned about such a small unit replacing a larger one like in the Mondeo, even if it did have the same power, because would the engine not be put under more stress and perhaps be worn down over time leading to problems with longevity?

It depends on a lot of factors and is difficult to answer. What points of the engine are under a greater load due to the heavier weight of the car? Is strengthening them enough to combat that? The turbo allows much more power to be generated from a smaller cylinder, so generating enough power from the engine is not an issue, there's the extra heat to worry about, but that's not an issue in modern times either. There's the extra load on the rods, end bearings and crank, but all those can be strengthened and still be light thanks to modern alloys.
It's the overall package of the engine that you'd need to appraise, and test in situ in the car in question before you can answer most of the questions. And then what's left? Is it strong enough? Well what might fail after 80,000 miles of hauling around a Mondeo? Major engine components almost never fail these days provided they're lubricated properly. If they do fail, are they failing in the Focus too or just Mondeo's?
Then there's the more periphery stuff like turbo's and EGR valve's and the like. Different sustained loads on the engine depending on the driver and probably the load its carrying might have different effects alright, but how long before something gives? Only time will tell.
But for general hop-in and drive applications, for the most part these engines are as good if not better (thanks to the level of thought put into development) than what they're directly replacing, i.e. the old 1.6 N/A stuff that were really the same old engines since the late 80's bar a handful of tweaks. So their job isn't a difficult one!!

murphym7

I have been driving a Skoda Octavia since September and love it. It’s the 1.2TSI 105BHP hatch not the estate. I was laughing at the salesman on the phone when he said it was a 1.2. He convinced me to come down and drive it and I am glad I did. What a car, the turbo really does beef the car up and I have never had an issue overtaking, going up hills loaded or on my own. My last car was a Mondeo 1.8 Petrol and I don’t really notice any major drop in power, admittedly the Mondeo was 10 years old and probably lost some umphh over the years, but 1.2TSI 105BHP is perfect for me. I get 45mpg mixed driving and motorway only I get almost 50mpg, great figures coming from a Mondeo.

My wife has a 1.2 Rapid and I am only kicking myself we didn’t go for the 1.2TSI for the Rapid, because I can only imagine it would be a weapon of a yoke, as its pretty lively as it is.

Did I mention the boot is huge!:D

spank_inferno

Yeah... The cheapest Rapid gets an old MPI engine, which is a bit of a relic at this stage.

The 105ps tsi is inseed very good.