FG councillor hit in face while out telling lies to try get elected

Corkfeen

tayto lover wrote: »

One thing I have learned from this Government is that election promises mean absolutely nothing. Lies are told without a blink of an eye and then accepted by many posters who support the same Govt parties.

"Sure isn't that what you tend to do during an election process" - Pat Rabbitte.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAS0c5AkiNg

Except we're discussing a man being beaten up for his political affiliation and the fact he's canvassing.... Such behaviour is savage.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

renegademaster wrote: »

nope, i do, i've attended economics nights explaining in great detail what happened up to just after the late night dail fiasco where illegal bonds were changed to more legal methods of repayment.

it's you that hasn't a clue of what's going on if you're insisting i lay out a complete plan on an internet forum or else i know nothing

so what happens after your revolution?

This is usually when you do a runner on the thread

Royal Legend

Idbatterim wrote: »

As opposed to which party that wont lie or be deceitful? What are they meant to do, tell the truth and stay in opposition for eternity or be wiped out?! Their election manifesto is effectively a shopping list, once in coalition, compromise is the order of the day... Its easy to say we will do x y z in opposition or for us to say it here anonymously on boards, actually having to do it and stand over it, is a totally different matter!

anyway most of the moaners or the ones verbally or physically assaulted, have been taken care of as far as I'm concerned! What did they want or expect no cuts after the last several year sh*tstorm? LOL! They have gotten off lightly...

Go to Germany, the UK, the states, see how you live on welfare!

Here we go again, you are asking me to go see what it is like to live on welfare in the USA or Germany?
Anyone that argues with you must be living off the social, watch Jeremy Kyle or is a scumbag.
Its much the same ****e out of your type and your FG peers, discredit the dissenters

blackbaron

Uriel. wrote: »

Pensioners gave gotten off extremely light as gave most welfare recipients as usual. Paying 52% marginal tax rate, it is the worker who has arguably suffered the most, and I blame labour for that.

There's 2.3m mouths being fed by 2.2m Irish taxpayers. It's not Labour's fault in particular, every party is lining up to promise more of a transfer from that 2.2m to the 2.3m because that is what the 2.3m people are demanding.

And you may expect it to continue, because in modern, left-wing Ireland "equal" means that those who aren't going to work and earning for themselves enjoy the exact standard of living, or better, than those who do. Sure why bother going to work when I can just pop out a few kids, won't have to worry about childcare costs and can have a house and cash given to me by those who are interested in working? And sure when the politicians come to the door, I'll tell them I need more, and because there's enough of us we'll get what we want!

The people condoning, excusing or downplaying the violent incident this thread is about are vile, but totally indicative of the "left-wing" anti-government crowd that continue to use Irish democracy as a form of protest at every given opportunity. Irish ballot papers should just have two boxes titled "With the government" and "STICK IT TO DE MAN" written on them. It's almost a waste of time and ink pretending otherwise with these complicated "Yes/No" and "Candidate names" options currently being used.

Hitchens

it shouldn't be forgotten that when FF were in government that FG were urging them to splurge even more than they actually did

Hootanany

blackbaron wrote: »

There's 2.3m mouths being fed by 2.2m Irish taxpayers. It's not Labour's fault in particular, every party is lining up to promise more of a transfer from that 2.2m to the 2.3m because that is what the 2.3m people are demanding.

And you may expect it to continue, because in modern, left-wing Ireland "equal" means that those who aren't going to work and earning for themselves enjoy the exact standard of living, or better, than those who do. Sure why bother going to work when I can just pop out a few kids, won't have to worry about childcare costs and can have a house and cash given to me by those who are interested in working? And sure when the politicians come to the door, I'll tell them I need more, and because there's enough of us we'll get what we want!

The people condoning, excusing or downplaying the violent incident this thread is about are vile, but totally indicative of the "left-wing" anti-government crowd that continue to use Irish democracy as a form of protest at every given opportunity. Irish ballot papers should just have two boxes titled "With the government" and "STICK IT TO DE MAN" written on them. It's almost a waste of time and ink pretending otherwise with these complicated "Yes/No" and "Candidate names" options currently being used.

Their is 2.3m on the dole:eek:

renegademaster

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

so what happens after your revolution?

This is usually when you do a runner on the thread

my revolution?

Royal Legend

Corkfeen wrote: »

Except we're discussing a man being beaten up for his political affiliation and the fact he's canvassing.... Such behaviour is savage.

That's a situation that is unproven. What we are discussing is whether it even happened or not and the real discussion should lay around what kind of PR machine FG have that they seem to be able to have people defend them on so many forums.

Personally, I would like to see people that know their job doing their job in government, so say someone that knows law becomes minister for justice, someone that knows health becomes minister for health, someone that knows teaching becomes minister for education.
FG/Lab, have done this, the problem is that the people that were put in these positions act arrogant and superior that they have turned everyone against them, except that is Enda Kenny, who continues to defend them no matter what.
Enda promised change, he promised honesty, what we got was the same, only with an increased arrogance, possibly not seen since the likes of Haughey and Pee Flynn (Talking of Flynn, it appears that Phil Hogan is being lined up to be an European Commissioner, obviously this is Enda's thank you to Phil for all his hard work for the FG party)

Bubbaclaus

OP is either trolling or a very special kind of idiot. I will go with the trolling since nobody can possibly be that stupid.

People like him should be banned from After Hours, for clearly trolling.

blackbaron

"Their is 2.3m on the dole"

No, there's over 2.2m (2.259m, I rounded up) people in receipt of weekly social welfare payments though. Put "2.2 million people benefit from social welfare payments" into search and have a look at the page returned for MerrionStreet.

Bubbaclaus

blackbaron wrote: »

"Their is 2.3m on the dole"

No, there's over 2.2m (2.259m, I rounded up) people in receipt of weekly social welfare payments though. Put "2.2 million people benefit from social welfare payments" into search and have a look at the page returned for MerrionStreet.

I wonder what percentage of these people shouldn't be receiving free payouts.

I'm guessing 20/25%.

I hope the government is able to follow through with the plan to reduce the tax burden on us hard working people of society.

blackbaron

"I wonder what percentage of these people shouldn't be receiving free payouts.

I'm guessing 20/25%.

I hope the government is able to follow through with the plan to reduce the tax burden on us hard working people of society. "

A good start, in the right direction, would be to immediately move Child Benefit to be means tested and take whatever savings come from it and hand it back to the taxpayer in the form of tax reduction. I mean if any government ever wants to be taken seriously as a government that will even look equally at those who work in Ireland then this would be a good start.

Another good move, although controversial, would be to drastically reduce / eliminate the pensions of anyone currently residing in a public elderly care home. They're not likely to make it back out of there, and the money won't benefit them while in there, so it shouldn't be allocated there.

tayto lover

Corkfeen wrote: »

Except we're discussing a man being beaten up for his political affiliation and the fact he's canvassing.... Such behaviour is savage.

Well I don't have time for that kind of violence but i would give them a bit of verbals myself if they came to my door. BUT in the Dundalk area not one person called to my door except Sinn Fein who i have never voted for but am now considering.
I just couldn't vote for for a person who is afraid to come to the door and face the questions. They are seemingly paying young lads to put their literature through the letter boxes. Cowardly in the extreme.

Idbatterim

A good start, in the right direction, would be to immediately move Child Benefit to be means tested and take whatever savings come from it and hand it back to the taxpayer in the form of tax reduction. I mean if any government ever wants to be taken seriously as a government that will even look equally at those who work in Ireland then this would be a good start.

over what income do you intend to means test it, even a joint income of 70-80k isnt much for a family if both parents are working and have a mortgage. I dont agree with means testing at all, in fact I dont believe welfare recipients should be getting anything the rest of us dont, except for a roof over their head and the dole and after a certain period have it cut down to virtually nothing. Create jobs, lower income taxes and use the money saved for free or massively subsidized childcare for working parents... You are championing for cuts against those you wish to protect!

"Their is 2.3m on the dole"

No, there's over 2.2m (2.259m, I rounded up) people in receipt of weekly social welfare payments though. Put "2.2 million people benefit from social welfare payments" into search and have a look at the page returned for MerrionStreet.

I think that figure incudes parents that receive child benefit though...

blackbaron

"I just couldn't vote for for a person who is afraid to come to the door and face the questions. They are seemingly paying young lads to put their literature through the letter boxes. Cowardly in the extreme. "

Are you seriously expecting the candidate to hand deliver every bit of literature to every household in the constituency? It doesn't work like that.

What generally happens is a number of things:

Canvassers/supporters will go out in groups without the candidate and will drop stuff into houses, or call into houses to ask them about local issues and about who they're intending to vote for. They'll note these things down and try and have the candidate get in touch if the constituent would like to talk to them directly.

Canvassers/supporters will go out in groups WITH the candidate and will go to streets/shopping centres/etc. The canvassers will go door to door doing the usual - dropping stuff in, talking to people - and the candidate will walk along and approach people they meet, or go up to the doors with people engaged with their canvassers.

It's not feasible to expect a candidate to stop in to every house in the area for a chat, especially with something like the local elections where the candidate will most likely be working full time also as it is. They also tend to target areas where they're likely to get votes - SF, People Before Profit, etc. go into working class areas because that's where their votes come from, FG/Lab go into the middle class suburbs because that's where they get their votes etc. Calling them cowards for them not all managing to be able to stop in for a chat with every constituent on the run up to an election is displaying an incredible sense of entitlement.

Why don't you try contacting one of the candidates and see what you think of them then?

Idbatterim

Its much the same ****e out of your type and your FG peers, discredit the dissenters

They can dissent all they like, do you not think all the political parties would prefer we were back in boom time, give away budgets for all, all laughs and smiles at the doorsteps?! In Ireland more so than anywhere, you are pretty much handed everything on a plate!!!

Here we go again, you are asking me to go see what it is like to live on welfare in the USA or Germany?

It was hypothetical, my point is, if you think they pick up the tab anywhere near as much over there or that it would be tolerated to the extent that it is here, I suggest doing a bit of research!

Give a good primary and secondary school education, put a loan system in place for third level and if people dont take advantage of it, thats enough of a leg up IMO... Tough **** after that, whether long termers with no intention of working should even get any support, is debatable, if they opt out, can I opt out of paying taxes or is it selective?

Foxhound38

Hootanany wrote: »

How much does the party get out of the Pot of course its funded

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you?

Candidates tend to get a core package from their party, which they pay for themselves and generally fund through fundraising activity pre-election (table-quizes, constituency race nights etc - that's what a lot of rank-and-file party footsoldiers of every party spends their time organizing between elections).

It is cheaper for Party candidates than independents because parties get stuff printed in bulk (because they'll be printing however many thousand posters, leaflets etc from one design template for all their candidates), but it is up to the candidate themselves to finance their materials.

Foxhound38

olliesgirl55 wrote: »

I do not condone violence in any way shape or form. But if a FG or Labour candidate came to my door they would get a fair amount of abuse from me but I wouldn't hit them.
The whole way they are going about water charges is wrong. Also the household charge and property tax and how it was implemented was ridiculous. I spent about 2 hours and 3 phone calls to help my parents fix a simple issue with theirs. Its like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
Also they should be increasing benefits to old age pensioners not decreasing them. I got mad when they took away the phone benefit from the household benefits package because a lot of old age pensioners rely on the phone.
Rant over:mad:

So you want an increase in benefits and a decrease in taxes?

blackbaron

So you want an increase in benefits and a decrease in taxes?

You're talking to someone who likely supports the dreamland wanderers of SF or ULA, who imagine they'll go and "stick it to de man" in Europe once elected. Their entire premise lies on them wanting to elect people who they want to send to threaten the EU into basically striking off Ireland's debts OR ELSE.

They imagine that Adams or Boyd-Barrett will go into the EU and shout "Enough! Ireland will no longer pay its debts! And you must continue lending us billions that we'll now not likely repay OR ELSE! OR ELSE We'll default and drag the entire project down with us! Muhahahahahahaha" and the rest of the EU will stand back in awe of Ireland's rebel glory, write off the debts and continue handing the country money so the glorious rebel leaders of the left-wing can drop taxes and give out even more handouts.

I mean it's real fantasy fiction stuff, but the polling numbers for the people behind it (such as SF) are depressingly strong.

Jester252

Foxhound38 wrote: »

So you want an increase in benefits and a decrease in taxes?

AKA The Sinn Fein policy.

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

Well I don't have time for that kind of violence but i would give them a bit of verbals myself if they came to my door. BUT in the Dundalk area not one person called to my door except Sinn Fein who i have never voted for but am now considering.
I just couldn't vote for for a person who is afraid to come to the door and face the questions. They are seemingly paying young lads to put their literature through the letter boxes. Cowardly in the extreme.

How do you know they are being paid? Are you sure the young lads aren't youth wing members, or friends/family of the candidate?

Most candidates rely on volunteers - would cost a fortune otherwise.

Foxhound38

Idbatterim wrote: »

They can dissent all they like, do you not think all the political parties would prefer we were back in boom time, give away budgets for all, all laughs and smiles at the doorsteps?! In Ireland more so than anywhere, you are pretty much handed everything on a plate!!

The way some of the anti-government posters like the OP go on, you'd swear the politicians were inflicting pain for the hell of it, because they get craic out of people's misery or some crap like that.

Newsflash for the slow of learning - politicians like popularity, their jobs depend on it. They don't like spending cuts or tax increases - that decreases their popularity and makes it less likely that people will vote for them. As a result, they don't tend to cut spending or increase taxes unless they absolutely have to, because it's not within their interest to do so.

twinytwo

There is no need for violence,

For example some fg fellas came to my door the other night wanting to know who I was voting for. After being told that as ff and fg were essentially the same party flouting the same load of nonsence he was politely informed that I was left with no choice but to vote sinn fein.

The look of utter to distaste on his face was hilarious. I was then told that he would not waste his time trying to discuss politics with a shiner, He then turned around and walked away.

Foxhound38

blackbaron wrote: »

You're talking to someone who likely supports the dreamland wanderers of SF or ULA, who imagine they'll go and "stick it to de man" in Europe once elected. Their entire premise lies on them wanting to elect people who they want to send to threaten the EU into basically striking off Ireland's debts OR ELSE.

They imagine that Adams or Boyd-Barrett will go into the EU and shout "Enough! Ireland will no longer pay its debts! And you must continue lending us billions that we'll now not likely repay OR ELSE! OR ELSE We'll default and drag the entire project down with us! Muhahahahahahaha" and the rest of the EU will stand back in awe of Ireland's rebel glory, write off the debts and continue handing the country money so the glorious rebel leaders of the left-wing can drop taxes and give out even more handouts.

I mean it's real fantasy fiction stuff, but the polling numbers for the people behind it (such as SF) are depressingly strong.

Nailed it.

This is literally what People Before Profit, Socialist Party, and Sinn Fein's strategy is. It's honestly that weak and frankly stupid. And the funny thing is, they are completely aware of the fact that it's impossible - but the likes of Paul Murphy are more than willing to take the angry, uninformed element out there for mugs and lie to them like it's the most possible thing in the world - it's just "the establishment" won't do it because they're cnuts.

They're taking a segment of the population who are angry because they feel like they're being treated like fools by the Government (generally people who voted for Labour last time in the naieve belief that they would wave a magic wand within a week as the junior coalition partner and turn the place to the way things were circa 2004 - and are now bitter that this didn't turn out to be the case), and treating them like bigger fools, and it's working.

blackbaron

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Nailed it.

This is literally what People Before Profit, Socialist Party, and Sinn Fein's strategy is. It's honestly that weak and frankly stupid. And the funny thing is, they are completely aware of the fact that it's impossible - but the likes of Paul Murphy are more than willing to take the angry, uninformed element out there for mugs and lie to them like it's the most possible thing in the world - it's just "the establishment" won't do it because they're cnuts.

They're taking a segment of the population who are angry because they feel like they're being treated like fools by the Government (generally people who voted for Labour last time in the naieve belief that they would wave a magic wand within a week as the junior coalition partner and turn the place to the way things were circa 2004 - and are now bitter that this didn't turn out to be the case), and treating them like bigger fools, and it's working.

The fact that FF have regained a significant amount of polling power supports your statement entirely. There's a significant amount of the Irish electorate who believe that it's possible to return Ireland to the days of low taxes and plentiful handouts, and that the current government just aren't doing it because they're elitists.

It's naive, misguided and delusional...and the fact that the cries of "look how ludicrous their claims are, none of this is possible and if they try to carry this out it will hurt Ireland massively" are totally ignored highlights the underlying (wilful) ignorance on the matter. Because it's easier to go with the feels than to deal with the reals, so to speak.

twinytwo

Foxhound38 wrote: »

The way some of the anti-government posters like the OP go on, you'd swear the politicians were inflicting pain for the hell of it, because they get craic out of people's misery or some crap like that.

Newsflash for the slow of learning - politicians like popularity, their jobs depend on it. They don't like spending cuts or tax increases - that decreases their popularity and makes it less likely that people will vote for them. As a result, they don't tend to cut spending or increase taxes unless they absolutely have to, because it's not within their interest to do so.

The problem a lot of people have is the country is still being run loose and fast. Nothing has really changed just no more cheap money. Fg have been in power and none of the real problems in the country have been addressed at all because they are all afraid of not get elected next time.

tayto lover

Foxhound38 wrote: »

How do you know they are being paid? Are you sure the young lads aren't youth wing members, or friends/family of the candidate?

Most candidates rely on volunteers - would cost a fortune otherwise.

I'm presuming that because they are young they are getting something for delivering. Young lads are used here to deliver all kinds of advertising through doors.

Nobody has canvassed me like they used to do so I am again deciding that they are afraid. They used to almost queue up.
What else could it be?

darkpagandeath

Is amusing how a Thread about Canvasser gets assaulted, Gets some decent dole bashing in. Almost wonder if it is some government posters trying to derail the thread and draw attention away from canvasser restraining a citizen. That then leads to one or both parties being injured in the ensuing scuffle.

Wicklowrider

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Is amusing how a Thread about Canvasser gets assaulted, Gets some decent dole bashing in. Almost wonder if it is some government posters trying to derail the thread and draw attention away from canvasser restraining a citizen. That then leads to one or both parties being injured in the ensuing scuffle.

You can learn a LOT about a party and its supporters from a thread like this.

Much more than you would learn from their literature or from their Canvassers.

From this one I've learnt FG and its supporters have no regard for Judicial Process and either do not understand, or have no interest, in concepts such as Innocent Until Proved Guilty.

My name is URL

Both sound as bad as each other in this case. The guy shouldn't have knocked the leaflets out of the canvaser's hands, and the canvaser should not have put hands on the guy, or attempt to 'restrain him up against a car'.. he's the one that initiated a physical struggle.

On the plus side at least he didn't report the guy for littering :pac:

MJ23

Filling up the letter box with bullsh1t leaflets every day.

twinytwo

MJ23 wrote: »

Filling up the letter box with bullsh1t leaflets every day.

I'd love to know how much money is wasted on leaflets/posters and the like.... I bet it's enough to feed a small army

sligoface

'I tried to restrain him against the car.' Putting political-style spin on assault, basically. I've replaced the 'no canvassers' sign on my door with a notice stating 'canvassers will be restrained against the closest vehicle.' Because apparently it's ok to do that to someone.

If the canvassers are FF, FG or Labour, I will try to make sure it is a moving vehicle.

Satriale

a little bit more from the Times today...

I thought he was going to hit me so I caught him in a bear hug and I was watching that he wouldn’t head butt me when he scratched my face – there was no belting but just one rotten tear, said Mr Deegan who stands 6ft 2in tall and weighs 17 stone but said he was badly shaken by the assault.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda%C3%AD-to-investigate-incident-where-councillor-was-injured-while-on-campaign-trail-1.1791510

Specialun

Cant believe this is on here

I know of the incident and i know exactly what. Happened..its a joke how the TD's are milking it..espically where there far from innocent

ben.schlomo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

LOL, which were their own fault in the first place.
Rabble rabble rabble i love government, rabble rabble rabble banks, rabble rabble rabble cronies.

bumper234 wrote: »

Erm


No


They took over a stagnant economy with high unemployment and MASSIVE debt, but don't let facts get in the way of your soapboxing.

Nice try Dan, or as you would succinctly put it LOL.

Busted Flat.

Satriale wrote: »

a little bit more from the Times today...

I thought he was going to hit me so I caught him in a bear hug and I was watching that he wouldn’t head butt me when he scratched my face – there was no belting but just one rotten tear, said Mr Deegan who stands 6ft 2in tall and weighs 17 stone but said he was badly shaken by the assault.


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda%C3%AD-to-investigate-incident-where-councillor-was-injured-while-on-campaign-trail-1.1791510

Who assaulted who first. The Guards will have an opinion on this.

jimgoose

That's West Cork for you - a sort of White-Man's-Grave for FG-oids. "Come to flog us that bloody treaty, have 'oo?!". To which the correct answer is of course "I'm floggin' fuck-all, I've come to buy!"

Specialun

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Who assaulted who first. The Guards will have an opinion on this.

There was no assault..the guards have interviewed both parties ..as of yet their is no case to look into...i say as of yet though..

darkpagandeath

Attack on democracy Jesus... I'm sorry Mr canvasser if you had not escalated the situation to physical restraint then I'm pretty sure your man would have run out of steam and gone away. Pretty sure there was no assault as the canvasser would have been pushing for assault charges to milk it. The guards just took everyone's details. Interesting to see if it was the other way around, would the member of the public be charged with assault for restraining the canvasser.

Sir Oxman

As an aside because I've seen it mentioned a few pages back FG in 2002 were literally wiped out because they campaigned on a message of financial rectitude - the Irish electorate wanted more mad spending from our favourite bastards FF/PDs

The rest is history.

Just sayin. And I ain't no Tory.

Busted Flat.

Sir Oxman wrote: »

As an aside because I've seen it mentioned a few pages back FG in 2002 were literally wiped out because they campaigned on a message of financial rectitude - the Irish electorate wanted more mad spending from our favourite bastards FF/PDs

The rest is history.

Just sayin. And I ain't no Tory.

Have you a link for that, never heard that before. Then that was when they sold out a billion euro license to a supporter according to the Moriarty Tribunal.

everlast75

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Why, would you hit them like the guy in the OP did? :rolleyes:

Absolutely not! I want the chance to let them know what i have to say and they aren't calling because they don't want to hear about how much of a sh*t job they're doing!

Do you make a habit of jumping to the wrong conclusions often? Topping it off with the "rolling eyes" makes that a contender for post of the day!