UFC signs Pro Wrestler CM Punk

Cyber Ghost

ASOT wrote: »

ala Pube Head Askren

That's uncalled for, Asot

Mouthalmighty

There is also the serious issue of Punks health in the long term apparently he's had over a dozen concussions. Thats some serious brain trauma. Maybe he should forget about this mma adventure ( not to bash the dudes courage to actually get in there but this looks like an ego trip and 2 fingers to Vince) and focus on the rest of his life being healthy. From a ufc point of view cha-ching!

slicus ricus

MrStuffins wrote: »

I have nothing against CM Punk. But I find this incredibly ironic that in the same week that UFC have launched this new Reebok deal in order to show themselves as being "professional" and putting them on a par with the NFL, NBA etc., they decide to give a guy who is essentially an actor with a little bit of Martial Arts experience a contract?

Firstly, CM Punk is not an actor. He is a former pro wrestler who has trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies.

Secondly, he has a huge profile worldwide among a target audience for the UFC (pro wrestling fans), is very charismatic and will gain interest and hype for the UFC. From a business perspective, signing Punk makes perfect sense - even if he fails miserably in the Octagon, UFC will benefit. If he does well, the UFC will benefit hugely.

MrStuffins wrote: »

It'd be like an NFL team giving someone a pro contract because they played an American Football player in a movie. It'd never happen, and this shouldn't happen either.

This comparison makes no sense to me. CM Punk does not play the role of a fighter. He was a Pro Wrestler who has trained in BJJ for a number of years.

Is it fair to other fighters (from a fighting perspective) who have fought on regional shows and are still waiting on a call from the UFC while Punk skips the Q? Absolutely not. However, Punk is able to skip the Q because he has spent years building his profile in Pro Wrestling (whose audience UFC heavily target) and also has trained with the Gracies for many years in BJJ. It's like Conor McGregor getting a title shot before other fighters who have been in the division longer - not necessarily fair but draw money and ultimately benefits the UFC and anyone who fights him.

laoch na mona

slicus ricus wrote: »

Firstly, CM Punk is not an actor. He is a former pro wrestler who has trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies.

Secondly, he has a huge profile worldwide among a target audience for the UFC (pro wrestling fans), is very charismatic and will gain interest and hype for the UFC. From a business perspective, signing Punk makes perfect sense - even if he fails miserably in the Octagon, UFC will benefit. If he does well, the UFC will benefit hugely.



This comparison makes no sense to me. CM Punk does not play the role of a fighter. He was a Pro Wrestler who has trained in BJJ for a number of years.

Is it fair to other fighters (from a fighting perspective) who have fought on regional shows and are still waiting on a call from the UFC while Punk skips the Q? Absolutely not. However, Punk is able to skip the Q because he has spent years building his profile in Pro Wrestling (whose audience UFC heavily target) and also has trained with the Gracies for many years in BJJ. It's like Conor McGregor getting a title shot before other fighters who have been in the division longer - not necessarily fair but draw money and ultimately benefits the UFC and anyone who fights him.

it's really not McGregor has not lost a fight in the ufc, he has been a mma fighters for years.

while punk may have some legitimately good BJJ the fact remains he has never had a competitive fight, ya pro wrestlers are great athletes but they are actors it's not competitive

MrStuffins

slicus ricus wrote: »

Firstly, CM Punk is not an actor. He is a former pro wrestler who has trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies.

He's essentially an actor. Pro Wrestling is acting, no matter what way you look at it. That's not to say these guys aren't good athletes and great at what they do, but they are not competing. They are putting forward the illusion that they are competing, just like Carl Weathers did in Rocky when he pretended to be fighting Sly Stallone.

Secondly, he has "trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies". Fine, but that's just a sentence! There is no substance there. What does "extensively" actually mean? Prowess/experience in BJJ is normally measured in belts, in competition results and other ways. What's his rank? Where has he competed? Who has he rolled with?

Secondly, he has a huge profile worldwide among a target audience for the UFC (pro wrestling fans), is very charismatic and will gain interest and hype for the UFC. From a business perspective, signing Punk makes perfect sense - even if he fails miserably in the Octagon, UFC will benefit. If he does well, the UFC will benefit hugely.

You know who else has a high profile with WWE fans? Apollo Creed. They've all seen the movie. Or Sly Stallone? What about him? Haven't they all seen Rocky? He "trained extensively" before each Rocky movie and is in the Boxing Hall of Fame. Why not give him a go?

I keep hearing this "It will gain interest" and "it will gain hype" argument. It's an empty argument. It's a sound byte. If they had Cain Velaquez in there fighting a bear you could make the same argument! "A load of people who wouldn't normally watch MMA will watch and maybe some will stick around".

This comparison makes no sense to me. CM Punk does not play the role of a fighter. He was a Pro Wrestler who has trained in BJJ for a number of years.

He DOES play the role of a fighter. That's what Pro Wrestling is. Again, i'm not saying Pro Wrestlers aren't awesome at what they do. But it's a show. There is no competition!

Mellor

slicus ricus wrote: »

Firstly, CM Punk is not an actor. He is a former pro wrestler who has trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies.

I was one of the posters who highlighted how far back he'd been training. I'm also quite optimistic about his ability.

But you're being very liberal with "extensively" there.

It's like Conor McGregor getting a title shot before other fighters who have been in the division longer - not necessarily fair but draw money and ultimately benefits the UFC and anyone who fights him.

If Conor gets the next shot. He's literally jumped ahead of 1 fighter, (who already fought the champ).
But Conor absolutely has No.1 contender ability.

Punk is jumping a few hundred people. He hasn't got UFC ability.
Tbh, if he went off and had 3-4 amateur fights. And them 1 or 2 pro fights on a small org. He could get say with jumping the queue.

slicus ricus

laoch na mona wrote: »

it's really not McGregor has not lost a fight in the ufc, he has been a mma fighters for years.

I meant purely in terms of McGregor potentially skipping the Q for a title shot due to his charisma and ability to sell PPVs. I am not for a second saying he doesn't deserve a title shot based on what he has done but there is a school of thought that there are other fighters who deserve a shot first. The comparison I was making was that Punk is skipping the Q to get into UFC ahead of guys who have actually fought MMA for other organisations based on charisma, profile and ability to sell PPVs. Maybe not the best comparison but I'm sure you can see the point I am trying to make that financial considerations are a big part of UFC decision making in terms of which fighters they will promote and that it is not always fair on some less than charismatic but talented fighters.

laoch na mona wrote: »

while punk may have some legitimately good BJJ the fact remains he has never had a competitive fight, ya pro wrestlers are great athletes but they are actors it's not competitive

MrStuffins wrote:

He's essentially an actor. Pro Wrestling is acting, no matter what way you look at it. That's not to say these guys aren't good athletes and great at what they do, but they are not competing. They are putting forward the illusion that they are competing, just like Carl Weathers did in Rocky when he pretended to be fighting Sly Stallone.

I can see your point on this but I just don't think it's fair on either Pro Wrestlers or serious actors to say that Pro Wrestlers are actors. I'm certainly not saying that being a Pro Wrestler entitles the guy to UFC contract - clearly Pro Wresling and MMA require very different skillsets.

MrStuffins wrote:

Secondly, he has "trained extensively in BJJ under the Gracies". Fine, but that's just a sentence! There is no substance there. What does "extensively" actually mean? Prowess/experience in BJJ is normally measured in belts, in competition results and other ways. What's his rank? Where has he competed? Who has he rolled with?

I don't know the answers to these questions and there doesn't appear to be much on line in terms of answering them. However, I think it's safe to say that Dana does know the answers to these questions and would have factored them into his decision to give the guy a contract.

MrStuffins wrote:

You know who else has a high profile with WWE fans? Apollo Creed. They've all seen the movie. Or Sly Stallone? What about him? Haven't they all seen Rocky? He "trained extensively" before each Rocky movie and is in the Boxing Hall of Fame. Why not give him a go?

WWE fans would have nowhere near the same level of interest in Carl Weathers or Sly Stallone as they would in seeing Punk fight in UFC.

laoch na mona

but McGregor is not getting anything without wining fights ya he's charismatic and sells well but the fact remains he got nothing without winning fights

MrStuffins

slicus ricus wrote: »

I can see your point on this but I just don't think it's fair on either Pro Wrestlers or serious actors to say that Pro Wrestlers are actors. I'm certainly not saying that being a Pro Wrestler entitles the guy to UFC contract - clearly Pro Wresling and MMA require very different skillsets.

I didn't say they were "just" actors. I said they were "essentially" actors. They are playing a role. What they are not doing is competing which is the most important thing here.

I don't know the answers to these questions and there doesn't appear to be much on line in terms of answering them. However, I think it's safe to say that Dana does know the answers to these questions and would have factored them into his decision to give the guy a contract.

Exactly. You don't know. Who does? You can't just presume Dana White knows either. It's not as if a sportsperson has never gotten into a similar position without being questioned.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Whosthis

Cathal Pendred ‏@PendredMMA 1 min1 minute ago
This punk is going to be 'one & done' in the UFC. It looks like I will be that one.
#JustWonTheLottery

rolexeagle1

https://twitter.com/PendredMMA/status/542709203396468738

markcahill1985

srumball wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PendredMMA/status/542709203396468738

Imagine Conor v Aldo and Punk V Pendrad in June in the Aviva - we can dream

MrStuffins

Pendred is bullsh*tting! He's pulling a McGregor v Sanchez here I reckon.

John_D80

MrStuffins wrote: »

Pendred is bullsh*tting! He's pulling a McGregor v Sanchez here I reckon.

Yeah, has to be. He's hardly being lined up to fight CM Punk when he has a fight in January. Throwing CM Punk in with him would be seriously negligent on the part of the UFC. He's a beast.

MagicIRL

Unless Cathal's opponent is out injured and Punk has stepped in?

Whosthis

I thought when the signing was announced they said Punk was expected to debut in the summer. Surely plenty of time for a Pendred turnaround.

Fromvert

rogieop wrote: »

Will be nowhere near a title by 2016.

Mellor wrote: »

Really?

Mellor wrote: »

I was one of the posters who highlighted how far back he'd been training. I'm also quite optimistic about his ability.

Am I reading this right, that you do think he will get somehow close to title 2016 (or where you sarcastic, hard to tell online)? And how if you do?

My take on it.

He has no notable martial arts accomplishments from what I can see, except having trained in BJJ and Kempo, which could mean anything. But has he ever trained MMA does he know how to set up a takedown from strikes, how to transition/escape while he could be getting punched in the face etc. Nobody knows how good he is. I expect he isn't very good.

He can't fight anyone with any notable experience (so no current UFC fighters) so will have to fight a guy they'll pull up from regionals who is 0-0, 1-0, 0-1, 2-1, etc.
Now we have two guys fighting in the premier MMA promotion who have no right to be there and will be on a main card.
Let's say he wins that fight, ok good stuff that proves nothing really as we have no idea who the other guy is and guys win these sort of fights all the time on regional shows. Can he fight anyone in the top 30+ yet? I doubt a commission would allow it and they shouldn't.
So another guy who has little experience has to be wheeled out as I doubt they could even give him a guy with a 5-0/6-0/7-1/8-1 etc (guys with records who you see get a crack in the UFC) who would be looking to make his debut.
So does he fight a guy 2-0/3-0 etc? And how long will this kind of building take?

How big of record does he need to get a shot at a top 15 guy? Even in 2/3 years how does he beat anyone in the top 15, he gets folded up by anyone of them.

He's has no MMA experience, no accolades in any competitive competition, I guess he has been concussed/injured dozens of times from the WWE and could be chinny and beaten up already. Oh and he's 36!

It's a money grab simple as, he'll probably win a few fights (and that's good for him) as Silva and Shelby will be under strict orders to find a good matchup from whatever skills he has.

He wants some money and wants to try MMA, good for him but I can't see him ever fighting someone with a decent record in the UFC never mind a top guy.

Marky Mark Wahlberg has trained in boxing a few times, the UFC should give him a call if they want to bump their numbers.

Beefy78

Fromvert wrote: »

He's has no MMA experience, no accolades in any competitive competition, I guess he has been concussed/injured dozens of times from the WWE and could be chinny and beaten up already. Oh and he's 36!

He's had at least 12 concussions in WWE.

rolexeagle1

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's had at least 12 concussions in WWE.

And has messed up knees apparently

Fromvert

Beefy78 wrote: »

He's had at least 12 concussions in WWE.

Jesus, take into account 'smaller' concussions people get and ignore (through ignorance, especially years ago) and consussions he got in the years building up to getting into the WWE and his brain will probably be mush in a few years if it's not already.

B.A._Baracus

A risky move by Punk I think.
Like we all know he will be getting good money and clearly wants to have a go at fighting. So alot of it is win-win for him.

But what about his 'stock' so to speak. If he wins his first fight it'll look good for him. His stock will increase.
If he loses his first fight, he'll be branded as a 'fake wrestler who thought he could fight' (you know yourself)
Because while he signed a multi-fight deal, he will move on to things beyond UFC (most likely acting or something) so thats where the risk comes into play.

DrPhilG

calex71 wrote: »

the WWE sure as hell see the UFC as competitors as is evident from how the colour commentary in WWE changed post Brock Lesner fighting in the UFC.

How do you mean?

Haven't watched WWE for years, just curious about what changed?

Mellor

Fromvert wrote: »

Am I reading this right, that you do think he will get somehow close to title 2016 (or where you sarcastic, hard to tell online)? And how if you do?
.

You aren't reading it correctly.

sonic85

the UFC is a business where the bottom line is the main thing.

still though I would've thought that since their whole business model is geared towards signing up the best mma fighters from around the world that this stunt takes some of the shine from the whole pinnacle of the sport thing the UFC has going on.

this taints the organisation a bit in my eyes - I absolutely hated the toney farce and this could well end up going along those lines. I say could because punk is an unknown quantity so might surprise people. wont hold my breath though

ASOT

If anyone actually thinks Pendred was serious you need to give your head a shake. Hes just copying Conor again as usual.

rolexeagle1

ASOT wrote: »

If anyone actually thinks Pendred was serious you need to give your head a shake. Hes just copying Conor again as usual.

I don't know if he is copying Conor. Many UFC fighters were calling people out like this before Conor was even interested in MMA. He is just stirring the pot it seems.

ASOT

srumball wrote: »

I don't know if he is copying Conor. Many UFC fighters were calling people out like this before Conor was even interested in MMA. He is just stirring the pot it seems.

It wouldnt be the first time hes done something similar is more or less what i was getting at. The same way McGregor was saying he was fighting Sanchez, or the same way he called out to Dana after a win on CW just a week or two after McGregor done the same when he knocked out Brimage. Its not a bad thing I just don't think he has the charisma/persona to pull it off.

slicus ricus

MrStuffins wrote: »

I didn't say they were "just" actors. I said they were "essentially" actors. They are playing a role. What they are not doing is competing which is the most important thing here.

You are correct in that pro wrestlers are not competing, there is no question over that - the results of matches are predetermined and the wrestlers cooperate with each other in executing the moves. I agree that the fact that someone has been a pro wrestler offers no real advantage when it comes to competing in MMA.

My only issue is when people say that they are actors/stuntmen - I just think it comes accross as derogatory to what they do. It is kind of the equivalent of calling MMA fighters "cage fighters" or saying MMA is "barbaric". As a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling, I don't see why there is a need for fans of either to downplay what the other does. Why not just call Punk a former pro wrestler instead of an actor/stuntman? I don't think anyone is suggesting that he will be using his pro wrestling skills when he enters the Octagon - god help him if he does!!

MrStuffins wrote: »

Exactly. You don't know. Who does? You can't just presume Dana White knows either. It's not as if a sportsperson has never gotten into a similar position without being questioned.

I remember the George Weah's cousin story alright - pretty funny stuff. I would be shocked though if Dana White has signed CM Punk without doing his homework on the guy in terms of his training. That's not to say that the training he has done is good enough to compete as a pro fighter - but I would imagine Dana has a good idea of where he is at.

darced wrote:

This post has been deleted.

There's always going to be the odd circus act/ special attraction though! Be it Kimbo Slice, James Toney, CM Punk, Akebono, Mariusz Pudzianowski, Brock Lesnar (to an extent as Lesnar was a legit amateur wrestler) or any others. MMA is a quite a niche sport which has a very dedicated following with not that many casual fans (when compared to more mainstream sports). The odd circus act brings in the casual fans and their money! It's purely a business decision rather than a decision focused on the quality of the product from a fighting perspective.

Could you explain how it hurts the credibility of MMA? Who is likely to think the sport is less credible as a result of CM Punk fighting in UFC? The casual fans UFC are attracting by signing the guy aren't interested in the credibility of the sport or even aware of the parameters of what is/ is not credible; and the dedicated hardcore fans know who the real fighters are and who the circus acts are and won't be put off by the occassional circus act (there obviously is a breaking point which UFC must be careful with). The only people who will think it is a less credible sport are the people who are never going to be interested in the sport anyway.

MrStuffins

slicus ricus wrote: »

You are correct in that pro wrestlers are not competing, there is no question over that - the results of matches are predetermined and the wrestlers cooperate with each other in executing the moves. I agree that the fact that someone has been a pro wrestler offers no real advantage when it comes to competing in MMA.

My only issue is when people say that they are actors/stuntmen - I just think it comes accross as derogatory to what they do. It is kind of the equivalent of calling MMA fighters "cage fighters" or saying MMA is "barbaric".

It's nothing like that in my opinion.

As a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling, I don't see why there is a need for fans of either to downplay what the other does. Why not just call Punk a former pro wrestler instead of an actor/stuntman? I don't think anyone is suggesting that he will be using his pro wrestling skills when he enters the Octagon - god help him if he does!!

Calling him an actor or a stuntman isn't downplaying anything. Because that's what he is. Pro Wrestlers play a part and perform what are essentially stunts. I can't see how calling anyone an actor or a stuntman is derogatory in the least.

slicus ricus

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's nothing like that in my opinion.

Calling him an actor or a stuntman isn't downplaying anything. Because that's what he is. Pro Wrestlers play a part and perform what are essentially stunts. I can't see how calling anyone an actor or a stuntman is derogatory in the least.

I'm a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling - the view of wrestlers as actors/stuntmen irritates me just as much as the view of MMA fighters as barbaric cage fighters. In both cases, I believe it's an unfair limitation - As in MMA fighters do fight in a cage/Octagon but there's way more to it than that; and Pro Wrestlers do somewhat play a character (normally an exagerated version of themselves) and occassionally perform high risk spots/ stunts but there's way more to it than that.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this.

Mellor

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling - the view of wrestlers as actors/stuntmen irritates me just as much as the view of MMA fighters as barbaric cage fighters. In both cases, I believe it's an unfair limitation - As in MMA fighters do fight in a cage/Octagon but there's way more to it than that; and Pro Wrestlers do somewhat play a character (normally an exagerated version of themselves) and occassionally perform high risk spots/ stunts but there's way more to it than that.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this.

Instead of focusing on what they sometimes do, try looking at the bigger picture.

It's not just fighting in a cage, to get to the top, an MMA fighter must be extremely well versed in multiple aspects of fighting. His life revolves around the art of fighting.

A pro-wrestler does nothing other than acting and stunts. That's the repertoire. This isn't derogatory, it's just a fact. Those stunts take a huge amount of skill. Acrobatics, high spots, break falls. All very precise skills, but not fight based.

Pro wrestlers have a demanding schedule. It's a physical job. They get broken down, and must recover in time for the next show. So it's no surprise that many PW's look for recovery assistance in the form if "Vitamin T". If more wrestlers start crossing over. At some point it becomes an issue.

BeepBeep!

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling - the view of wrestlers as actors/stuntmen irritates me just as much as the view of MMA fighters as barbaric cage fighters. In both cases, I believe it's an unfair limitation - As in MMA fighters do fight in a cage/Octagon but there's way more to it than that; and Pro Wrestlers do somewhat play a character (normally an exagerated version of themselves) and occassionally perform high risk spots/ stunts but there's way more to it than that.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this.

I've heard this before but have never have actually heard what 'way more than that' actually is. Not being smart here, just genuinely intrigued what they do beyond stunts? Just another question....is the winner of the fights decided before they go into the ring?

MrStuffins

slicus ricus wrote: »

I'm a fan of both MMA and Pro Wrestling - the view of wrestlers as actors/stuntmen irritates me just as much as the view of MMA fighters as barbaric cage fighters. In both cases, I believe it's an unfair limitation - As in MMA fighters do fight in a cage/Octagon but there's way more to it than that; and Pro Wrestlers do somewhat play a character (normally an exagerated version of themselves) and occassionally perform high risk spots/ stunts but there's way more to it than that.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this.

There's a massive difference here though.

MMA (or UFC at least) used to be "Cage Fighting". It was a scatter of experts in different martial arts, alongside a few tough guys, fighting one another in a cage. Almost no holds barred! It was barbaric. That's not the sport we watch today. It has evolved and is a proper sport. When someone says "Cage Fighter" or "Barbaric", it's due to their ignorance. They think that what the UFC is today is still what it was way back when. This is not the case. It's still a ridiculously violent sport but it is as safe as any other combat sports.

Pro Wrestling is now what it always was. Athletic muscle-bound guys (and girls) playing out plotlines, acting, playing out staged "fights" and performing great stunts. There's nothing wrong with that. It's quite entertaining if you buy into it. When I say they're actors and stunt men, I don't say that in a negative way. It's a positive thing.

Pro Wrestling is a staged drama where the participants perform stunts with one another and pretend to fight. I'm not entirely sure you could argue with this?

Beefy78

I'm a huge WWE fan. Love it and have done for years. Top wrestlers are some of the toughest people on the planet. A guy like CM Punk will spend 15 years travelling 250 days a year working five matches a week all over the planet. He'll work through broken bones, torn muscles ****ed knees, ****ed necks, concussions and a dozen other seperate injuries which would keep a 'real' sports person out for weeks or months at a time.

But he isn't a legit fighter. Even as someone with only a passing interest in MMA I know that these guys are not to be messed with and have got to where they are through training hard, getting their arse kicked and learning from it. CM Punk turning to UFC at 36 years of age based on a decent but undeveloped martial arts training is akin to someone who enjoys go-karting half a dozen times a year suddenly getting a drive in Formula One.

There are wrestlers out there who can and have competed in UFC and other MMA companies but it has been based on their skillset which they took into Wrestling. Brock Lesnar and to a lesser extent Bobby Lashley were extremely talented amateur wrestlers and prime physical specimins. I always thought that Kurt Angle would have made a great MMA fighter. CM Punk hasn't got any of the attributes of these guys. Fair play to him for having a go but I don't see how it can possibly end well.

slicus ricus

BeepBeep! wrote: »

Just another question....is the winner of the fights decided before they go into the ring?

Easier to answer this part first. Yes, the winner would be decided before they go into the ring. It would also be decided whether the the winner would win clean (i.e. pinfall or submission) or via disqualification or outside interference. Wins by DQ or outside interference would generally be used to set up rematches and keep fueds going (which is often necessary given that WWE is a weekly TV show running 52 weeks year) while clean wins most likely would end a fued.

BeepBeep! wrote: »

I've heard this before but have never have actually heard what 'way more than that' actually is. Not being smart here, just genuinely intrigued what they do beyond stunts?

The stunts (for want of a better word) that they do (i.e. going through tables, jumping off ladders, hitting each other with chairs, etc.) don't actually happen that often and are now only really reserved for big PPV matches. For a time in the late 90s/ early 00's, there were a lot of those stunts done due a ratings war between WWE/F and WCW- each trying to out do the other for shock value ratings. Until the 90s, you would very rarely see any of these stunts.

A basic pro wrestling match would be worked around the result which is predetermined. Getting from the start of the match to the finish is really up to the wrestlers - this can be done very well or very badly and anywhere in between. There is a general pyschology around the interaction of the heel (bad guy the crowd boo) and the face (good guy the crowd cheer) in order to keep the crowd interested and rooting for the face - This doesn't happen by accident and some wrestlers are very good when it comes to keeping the crowd interested, often adapting to the reaction of the crowd in doing so. Next time you see a pro wrestling match, watch out for the story of that actual match - the heel getting the upper hand, the face coming back briefly, heel getting the upper hand again, and the face eventually making a proper come back.

Then there's the actual wrestling moves themselves. A lot of the chain wrestling you would see in a pro wrestling match and the suplexes etc have their roots in amateur wrestling. The likes of Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar used a lot of amateur wrestling based moves in their matches. Submission holds have become far more prevalent in pro wrestling matches in recent times. While the opponent won't be resisting the execution all of these moves, there still is a skill in doing the moves well and making them look realistic.

I hope that this answers your question. Apologies if this is going a bit off topic.

MrStuffins

slicus ricus wrote: »

A basic pro wrestling match would be worked around the result which is predetermined. Getting from the start of the match to the finish is really up to the wrestlers - this can be done very well or very badly and anywhere in between. There is a general pyschology around the interaction of the heel (bad guy the crowd boo) and the face (good guy the crowd cheer) in order to keep the crowd interested and rooting for the face - This doesn't happen by accident and some wrestlers are very good when it comes to keeping the crowd interested, often adapting to the reaction of the crowd in doing so.

This is called acting.

Next time you see a pro wrestling match, watch out for the story of that actual match - the heel getting the upper hand, the face coming back briefly, heel getting the upper hand again, and the face eventually making a proper come back.

Creating tension, it's called acting.

Then there's the actual wrestling moves themselves. A lot of the chain wrestling you would see in a pro wrestling match and the suplexes etc have their roots in amateur wrestling. The likes of Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar used a lot of amateur wrestling based moves in their matches.

True. But when these are performed they are not done so against a resisting opponent. they are performed by both guys with a specific end result in mind. It's a stunt, or a dance.

Submission holds have become far more prevalent in pro wrestling matches in recent times. While the opponent won't be resisting the execution all of these moves, there still is a skill in doing the moves well and making them look realistic.

Once again, acting.

There's nothing wrong with Pro Wrestling, but you should see it for what it is.

BeepBeep!

MrStuffins wrote: »

Pro Wrestling is now what it always was. Athletic muscle-bound guys (and girls) playing out plotlines, acting, playing out staged "fights" and performing great stunts. There's nothing wrong with that. It's quite entertaining if you buy into it. When I say they're actors and stunt men, I don't say that in a negative way. It's a positive thing.

Pro Wrestling is a staged drama where the participants perform stunts with one another and pretend to fight. I'm not entirely sure you could argue with this?

Cheers Slicus Ricus for the breakdown, first time I've had it broken down in such a manner. I can only agree with MrStuffins though, I think they are great athletes but when 2 people are 'fighting' with a pre-determined outcome its acting, as MrStuffins says I wouldn't say this is necessarily a negative thing.

xtal191

So the chap hasn't even sparred properly what a joke, 5.50 on the video.

ASOT

ASOT wrote: »

There just going to sign some unknown fighter from some random organisation to feed him a win and sell some PPVs, whatever card he goes on will go well because of his cult following from WWE, great business move by the UFC. Should give him a shot against Weidman for the absolute lols and watch him be eaten alive.

Mcgregor .. Cough !

ASOT

Deleted User wrote: »

Mcgregor .. Cough !

No just no.....

riffmongous

McGregor would get destroyed in the trash talk :P

I think Punk (and the UFC) would be probably better off against someone with a name and pillow hands or lay n pray, have his fight and give it his best and lose and take a much lower credibility blow than try to build him up with nobodys and risk losing to a 1-1 guy. Anyone remember the Shamrock-Ortiz feud? Ken was way out of his depth by this stage but they still managed to make 3 decent events out of it.

threeball

Didn't Dana White have to jump through all sorts of hoops in order to get the commission to sanction his fight that never was against Tito and DW was an amateur boxer. How is this going to be any different. I'm sure the commission will be all over this and probably decline licencing punk. The Dana Tito fight was even supposed to be behind closed doors.

monkey8

If the ufc let this guy fight in the ufc it will be a serious case of negligence on their part. Surely they have some degree do responsibility for the safety of their fighters.

He says his striking is his major weakness, has no wrestling experience and has not even trained frequently enough to be awarded a blue belt in Bjj!!

So his Bjj (White belt) is a stronger aspect for him then his striking!!!

This is ridiculous!!

Fromvert

threeball wrote: »

Didn't Dana White have to jump through all sorts of hoops in order to get the commission to sanction his fight that never was against Tito and DW was an amateur boxer. How is this going to be any different. I'm sure the commission will be all over this and probably decline licencing punk. The Dana Tito fight was even supposed to be behind closed doors.

I think Dana and Tito were going to fight in an amateur boxing fight so it was a lot easier to do.

He's going to end up fighting a guy who has been training MMA for 3/4 years or has a background in another martial art and has decided to move into MMA
and has recently jumped in to the pro scene. It'll just be a guy that if he didn't get this opportunity to fight in to the UFC he'd be fighting on a regional show against a guy with a record similar to his.

Go down to SBG/Ryano etc and there'll be guys who havn't fought in the UFC who would fold CM Punk up!

xtal191

Gotta agree with Nate

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/12/nate-diaz-slams-ufcs-cm-punk-signing-f-ck-him-f-ck-the-whole-situation

ASOT

xtal191 wrote: »

Gotta agree with Nate

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/12/nate-diaz-slams-ufcs-cm-punk-signing-f-ck-him-f-ck-the-whole-situation

When he started talking about Struve :pac:

EDIT - I agree with absolutely everything Nate said, speaks alot of sense.

Slutmonkey57b

I think there's a lot to be said for his honesty in his interview, though. He's not stupid, he knows what he's getting into. He's prepared to accept this might end up an embarrassment for him. Like he says, if he gets people to tune in and watch him get chewed up, so be it.

Dtp1979

the groutch wrote: »

I take it you don't watch wrestling then.

Most people on here are over 14, so yes, they don't watch wrestling

Wrongway1985

I think some people can't seem to distinguish that when people refer to wrestlers being highly trained pros they mean skilled in their routine/act not in fighting/sport.

MrStuffins uses the word Dance in one of his post when referring to Pro Wrestling and thats essentially what it is no if or buts.

The UFC knew exactly the sh1tstorm this would cause but IMO they had to take the chance rather than see most likely Bellator sign him up and outdo them in ratings.

Do the UFC care if he wins? To a certain extent the matchmaking will reflect this but not particularly if hes terrible but draws massive viewers for his debut its already paid off, if hes decent they'll see how much more dollars they can reel in off his name alone.

He's 36 highly unlikely to compete at top end of whatever division he joins. His story can't be compared to Brock who fought in a thin heavyweight division saying that if Brock came back now I could see him being clobbered by Hunt or Browne etc.

Best of luck to him its intriguing I don't think it harms the credibility of the UFC a sideshow always comes along with them every once in awhile. While its easy to see it might be insulting to fighters who had to fight a few times to even get on PPV or even into the UFC nevermind negotiate contracts, its great for some lucky amateur/up and comer who will gain instant attention being pitted against CM Punk.