Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

bilston · 18-07-2015 6:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but it's artificially constructed nonsense to fill the gap until there are games again.

On a related note: Zebo, fat or big boned?

Just three weeks to go thankfully!

18-07-2015 8:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Zebo, fat or big boned?

bilston wrote: »

Just three weeks to go thankfully!

He's PREGNANT????

molloyjh · 20-07-2015 10:24pm

At a wedding in Dunboune Castle and the entire Ireland team are staying here. Half the wedding party know nothing about rugby and are half cut. It's been a pretty amusing half hour!

wp_rathead · 20-07-2015 11:19pm

smiley_face wrote: »

Sexton and Murray are our first choice players, no doubt, but it's not as if we don't have any other players that can play those positions.
The backup may not be as good, but it wouldn't be as catastrophic as some people are posting here.
They are all good professional players with plenty of talent to do a job for Ireland in the World Cup if they get the opportunity.
The reason I think 13 is a position of more concern is that Payne is the Ulster first choice 13, and the other Provinces have NIQ players in those positions, so not only would there be a lack of internationally capped 13s there is also a lack of 13s that play regularly for the provinces. Moving Henshaw to 13 and bringing in a new 12 would involve changing 2 positions to accommodate one injury, and especially risky if it results in an unproven/unfamiliar combination.
That's why I think Cave has to get into the 31, and should get plenty of game time in the warm-ups at 12 and 13.

Henshaw primarily plays 13 for Connacht, only played at 12 about 3 times there for us last year and that due to injuries toeither Bundee, Ronaldson or McSharry

smiley_face · 21-07-2015 12:20am

wp_rathead wrote: »

Henshaw primarily plays 13 for Connacht, only played at 12 about 3 times there for us last year and that due to injuries toeither Bundee, Ronaldson or McSharry

That still requires two changes if Payne gets injured. In terms of keeping the shape of the backline the same it would be preferable to leave Henshaw and replace 13 with Cave I'd suggest.
Also if Henshaw is the preferred 12, he'll probably be spending his time getting into the mind-frame of a 12 over the next couple of months in training, and will be practicing his positioning and moves as a 12, so it would be harder to then switch to 13.
It would be easier to have the sub cover the 2 centre positions so there would be maximum continuity despite an injury.
If Henshaw were to be selected to play a full match at 13 in a warm-up game then that would strengthen that option to switch him to 13. I hope that is at least tested out pre-RWC.
If that isn't tried out before we play France then it could backfire.
On the other hand if it worked out well then the sub would only have to cover 12 which might factor into the team and squad selection.

irishbucsfan · 21-07-2015 12:27am

If Payne goes down I'd imagine we'll see Earls take his place at 13, I'd be surprised if it was anyone else.

smiley_face · 21-07-2015 12:32am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Payne goes down I'd imagine we'll see Earls take his place at 13, I'd be surprised if it was anyone else.

Isn't Earls solely a winger now and not playing in the centre anymore?
I think he could be useful as a winger but I think he is a bit weak phyisically for an outside centre at International level, and I'd be concerned that he wouldn't be secure enough defensively.
I would choose Cave, McFadden, Trimble, Zebo, Fitzgerald before Earls at OC. Also Henshaw or Bowe would be ahead if they switched from their normal positions.

Fireball07 · 21-07-2015 1:40am

smiley_face wrote: »

Isn't Earls solely a winger now and not playing in the centre anymore?
I think he could be useful as a winger but I think he is a bit weak phyisically for an outside centre at International level, and I'd be concerned that he wouldn't be secure enough defensively.
I would choose Cave, McFadden, Trimble, Zebo, Fitzgerald before Earls at OC. Also Henshaw or Bowe would be ahead if they switched from their normal positions.

Played in the centre a bit last season, I'd definitely have him ahead of McFadden, Trimble and Zebo. I mean Zebo's never even played 13 and I don't think he'd be up to it defensively, I never liked McFadden playing there and Trimble hasn't played there for years.

Earls at least has played there at international and HC level to a pretty good standard. I would prefer Fitz over him there, I've always liked Fitz at 13, but it would seem that Joe sees Earls as a centre and Fitz as a winger, judging from the Wolfhounds game last year.

.ak · 21-07-2015 4:48am

Also, I think it's kinda funny suggesting earls isn't physical enough for OC and then suggest Zebo should be ahead of him there.

I actually think if Payne did get injured before the wc we'd see henshaw play at 13. Who plays 12 would be an interesting question, but I honestly wouldn't put it past JS to pick Darce there.

AbusesToilets · 21-07-2015 5:37am

How do you feel about Reid making the WC panel, talking of options at 12? I'd have him there ahead of D'Arcy myself, think he offers a lot more at this stage.

.ak · 21-07-2015 6:47am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

How do you feel about Reid making the WC panel, talking of options at 12? I'd have him there ahead of D'Arcy myself, think he offers a lot more at this stage.

I'm a fan, but I'd hate to see him cut his teeth properly at the WC and for it to backfire. Could ruin his confidence.

molloyjh · 21-07-2015 8:57am

Fireball07 wrote: »

....it would seem that Joe sees Earls as a centre and Fitz as a winger, judging from the Wolfhounds game last year.

This. I totally agree with IBF and Fireball here. Earls is most likely the back up 13.

stephen_n · 21-07-2015 9:12am

Earls may be the back up during the tournament, but I'd imagine if either Henshaw or Payne don't travel it will be D'Arcy who comes in to start.

Utah_Saint · 21-07-2015 9:20am

Would big Stu not be considered ahead of Reid for 12 if there was an injury crisis in that area?

total former · 21-07-2015 9:24am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Would big Stu not be considered ahead of Reid for 12 if there was an injury crisis in that area?

Very unlikely. Why would Reid be in the 45-man squad if not as a 12?

Utah_Saint · 21-07-2015 9:32am

total former wrote: »

Very unlikely. Why would Reid be in the 45-man squad if not as a 12?

Don't really see why, but maybe i need to take off my Ulster-Coloured glasses first :cool:

Maybe Reid can cover more than just 12. McCloskey would be seen as a 12 only....

.ak · 21-07-2015 9:38am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Don't really see why, but maybe i need to take off my Ulster-Coloured glasses first :cool:

Maybe Reid can cover more than just 12. McCloskey would be seen as a 12 only....

Same as Reid. He's played at 10 and at 13 but he's now exclusively a 12.

Reid does seem to be ahead in the pecking order though, he has an Irish cap and has been involved with the Irish setup before. I think he has a bit more senior experience which would stand to him, but in the long I reckon McCloskey will be a future Irish regular.

total former · 21-07-2015 9:39am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Don't really see why, but maybe i need to take off my Ulster-Coloured glasses first :cool:

Maybe Reid can cover more than just 12. McCloskey would be seen as a 12 only....

Reid can notionally cover 10 and 15 but if that came to pass in a World Cup, we'd be rightly screwed.

Pecking order at 12 is (IMO):
Henshaw
D'Arcy
Cave
Reid
Madigan
McFadden

Fitzgerald might even be in the mix in case of an injury crisis, but it just wouldn't be Joe's style to drop a new guy into the squad who's never been involved up to now.

.ak · 21-07-2015 9:41am

total former wrote: »

Reid can notionally cover 10 and 15 but if that came to pass in a World Cup, we'd be rightly screwed.

Pecking order at 12 is (IMO):
Henshaw
D'Arcy
Cave
Reid
Madigan
McFadden

Fitzgerald might even be in the mix in case of an injury crisis, but it just wouldn't be Joe's style to drop a new guy into the squad who's never been involved up to now.

I'd say Madigan is 3rd on that list. Schmidt likes him and will involve him where possible - I wouldn't have him there though. In fairness he's had a good cameo or two in green at 12.

smiley_face · 21-07-2015 9:54am

Fireball07 wrote: »

I mean Zebo's never even played 13 and I don't think he'd be up to it defensively,

.ak wrote: »

Also, I think it's kinda funny suggesting earls isn't physical enough for OC and then suggest Zebo should be ahead of him there.

He has played 13 but not at Senior level for Ireland. From what I saw of him playing for Ireland underage he was a world class 13, stand-out player.
I'd like to see him play there regularly for Munster but he seems to be installed as the 1st choice wing there instead.
I don't know if that is Zebo's preference, maybe he prefers wing himself.
That he's defensively weak is a myth. After playing most of the 6 Nations without any defensive issues that I can recall, I thought this would have been put to bed at this stage.
Physically compared to Earls he's much stronger, he's 6'2 and 15 stone, earls is smaller and lighter, and I'd rather Zebo tackle the likes of Bastareaud or Jamie Roberts than Earls any day.

.ak · 21-07-2015 9:57am

Zebo may be heavier, but I have a very tough time imagining he's stronger than Earls. Zebo will run around you, but I've seen Earls run through people.

smiley_face · 21-07-2015 10:12am

.ak wrote: »

I actually think if Payne did get injured before the wc we'd see henshaw play at 13. Who plays 12 would be an interesting question, but I honestly wouldn't put it past JS to pick Darce there.

I have been thinking that more and more lately, the experience D'Arcy would bring would steady the team if he had to come on in an injury crisis, also he can cover the outside centre if required.

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Maybe Reid can cover more than just 12. McCloskey would be seen as a 12 only....

I think Reid is there in competition with Madigan as the cover for out-half and inside centre, or at least for Joe just to have a look at him in training and for Reid to be around the squad for practice to replace Madigan if he got injured.

Clearlier · 21-07-2015 10:16am

.ak wrote: »

Zebo may be heavier, but I have a very tough time imagining he's stronger than Earls. Zebo will run around you, but I've seen Earls run through people.

Gotta agree with ak here. Earls is a much more powerful player than Zebo. I wouldn't have Earls at 13 because of his decision making but if you're just looking at physical attributes he's way ahead of Zebo. It's a bit of a moot point anyway - does anyone in their right mind see Zebo playing 13 for Ireland?

smiley_face · 21-07-2015 10:22am

Clearlier wrote: »

Gotta agree with ak here. Earls is a much more powerful player than Zebo. I wouldn't have Earls at 13 because of his decision making but if you're just looking at physical attributes he's way ahead of Zebo. It's a bit of a moot point anyway - does anyone in their right mind see Zebo playing 13 for Ireland?

We won't see it happening, but it reflects where I'd rank Earls as an outside centre in the Irish setup.
I don't think either of them will be picked there.
If Payne wasn't a success at 13 already, I'd try Zebo there just to see what he could do.
Of course that won't happen between now and the RWC.

bilston · 21-07-2015 10:23am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Would big Stu not be considered ahead of Reid for 12 if there was an injury crisis in that area?

McCloskey isn't in the squad though so not at the minute.

The best thing for McCloskey is to get himself nailed down in the Ulster team durng the WC when Payne is away and then give Les Kiss a decision to make come November when he has Cave, Payne and McCloskey (and others) to choose from. If he does that then he shouldn't be far from the Ireland squad in 2016.

21-07-2015 10:32am

Fireball07 wrote: »

Played in the centre a bit last season, I'd definitely have him ahead of McFadden, Trimble and Zebo. I mean Zebo's never even played 13 and I don't think he'd be up to it defensively, I never liked McFadden playing there and Trimble hasn't played there for years.

Earls at least has played there at international and HC level to a pretty good standard. I would prefer Fitz over him there, I've always liked Fitz at 13, but it would seem that Joe sees Earls as a centre and Fitz as a winger, judging from the Wolfhounds game last year.

Not sure I agree with the logic here. I think Fitz to the wing was because ideally that's where Joe want's to play him in a full strength squad. I think had we seen Earls to wing for that game it would have been him taking over from Zebo against Scotland as opposed to Luke but I don't think it was any comment on centre pecking order.

With the game time Fitz got at 13 for Leinster last season and how well he performed there, I'd say he will keep him at wing as long as he has options, but I think he'd move to 13 before Earls would. Personally I didn't think Earls ever showed anything at centre internationally like he does at wing.

awec · 21-07-2015 10:35am

bilston wrote: »

McCloskey isn't in the squad though so not at the minute.

The best thing for McCloskey is to get himself nailed down in the Ulster team durng the WC when Payne is away and then give Les Kiss a decision to make come November when he has Cave, Payne and McCloskey (and others) to choose from. If he does that then he shouldn't be far from the Ireland squad in 2016.

Agree, would prefer to see McCloskey stay with Ulster. Too soon for him and Ireland.

wp_rathead · 21-07-2015 11:32am

And add in Olding - he back in December is it?

typhoony · 21-07-2015 12:10pm

if it was between Fitzgerald and Earls I'd side with Fitzgerald, he has a bit more bulk to him as a centre, and what I've seen of Earls play centre with the ball in possesion if he does'nt go to ground quick then he seems to be easily held up and then a potential turnover

bilston · 21-07-2015 12:35pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

And add in Olding - he back in December is it?

Aye sometime around then, maybe more likely the new year.

I think when he returns he will need to be carefully managed as another knee injury will surely be the end for him. He also has the ability to play FB and OH so there will be options there.

jm08 · 21-07-2015 12:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure I agree with the logic here. I think Fitz to the wing was because ideally that's where Joe want's to play him in a full strength squad. I think had we seen Earls to wing for that game it would have been him taking over from Zebo against Scotland as opposed to Luke but I don't think it was any comment on centre pecking order.

With the game time Fitz got at 13 for Leinster last season and how well he performed there, I'd say he will keep him at wing as long as he has options, but I think he'd move to 13 before Earls would. Personally I didn't think Earls ever showed anything at centre internationally like he does at wing.

The logic to Fitz on the left wing is because he is a left footer - a like for like replacement for Zebo.

Ireland coach Joe Schmidt has revealed that Luke Fitzgerald's left foot is a key component of his selection on the left wing in the XV to face Scotland on Saturday.
Fitzgerald replaces Simon Zebo at No 11 and Schmidt was full of praise for the Leinster winger's ability to force his way back into the Ireland team.
"It's [his left foot] just keeping that balance," said Schmidt. "He's a natural left footer so coming in on the left wing it maintains that left-footed kicking option that we have and the ability to play down that left-hand touch a little bit.
"It's been a long road back for Luke after a number of injuries, but he has a positivity that makes it difficult to keep Luke down for long periods.
"He's played a lot of rugby on the wing and in my experience of working with Luke he's played almost entirely on the wing. Except last season when he did have half a dozen starts or more in the midfield."

AbusesToilets · 21-07-2015 4:55pm

I think Fitz should have been starting in the centre this season ahead of Payne, given his form there for Leinster, and if Payne goes down he should be right in there.

total former · 21-07-2015 5:03pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think Fitz should have been starting in the centre this season ahead of Payne, given his form there for Leinster, and if Payne goes down he should be right in there.

Ah I don't think Luke played enough games at 13 this season to demand inclusion, but I'd agree he's the most likely back up to Payne (after Henshaw).

Zzippy · 21-07-2015 5:17pm

Zebo at 13 for Ireland!

That's the best laugh I've had in a while...

thomond2006 · 21-07-2015 5:35pm

Zebo actually played 13 in his Cork Con days. Never for Munster though.

bilston · 21-07-2015 5:51pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Zebo at 13 for Ireland!

That's the best laugh I've had in a while...

It was a strange one

Scythica · 21-07-2015 6:24pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Zebo at 13 for Ireland!

That's the best laugh I've had in a while...

I heard given that he's powerful for his size they might put him in to replace POC later after the WC

total former · 21-07-2015 6:32pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Zebo actually played 13 in his Cork Con days. Never for Munster though.

This isn't like how he was supposed to have played 15 for Con, only for that to turn out not to be true at all?

thomond2006 · 21-07-2015 6:42pm

total former wrote: »

This isn't like how he was supposed to have played 15 for Con, only for that to turn out not to be true at all?

No I definitely remember him playing for Con at 13.

Here's one game anyway!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/ail/2010/0508/264841-corkcon_stmarys/

total former · 21-07-2015 6:57pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

No I definitely remember him playing for Con at 13.

Here's one game anyway!
/

Just checking, ye cute hoors are not to be trusted.

Great that an AIL game could feature two future Lions #fanning2017

thomond2006 · 21-07-2015 9:55pm

No need to fear if Sexton gets hurt, we have a ligind to kick the goals: https://twitter.com/mikem7373/status/623572861924605952?s=09

21-07-2015 11:04pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

No need to fear if Sexton gets hurt, we have a ligind to kick the goals: https://twitter.com/mikem7373/status/623572861924605952?s=09

Jaysus Stringer's put on a lot of weight since the wedding.