Stabbing incident at Milltown LUAS station

SimonLynch

Some amount of ****e being posted here about Rosemount/Columbanus/Farrenboley. Don't live there but go there for a pint every week, I'd also happily walk through any of them any hour of day. Think before you tar everybody.

steddyeddy

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Are there actually people here foaming at the mouth over some naive imminent danger from bankers ? Someone who takes brown envelopes or runs an institution lending more than it can make back in profit is most likely that middle aged, suit & tie who'd squirm at the thought of physical altercations.

The knuckle draggers in this case are the ones you should keep your eye on when on public transport. Not Seanie Fitz with the briefcase and long overcoat. :rolleyes:

Actually I think financial fraud effects far more people than one man with a knife can.

mfceiling

Who the f*ck carries a knife with them in Dublin?

"Mum I'm off out"

"Have you got your keys"

"Yeah"

"Your phone"

"See you later"

*2 mins down the road..."John, John, john"*

"What's up mum?"

"You forgot your knife you silly sailor/boyscout/box opener/carpenter"

Hans Bricks

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually I think financial fraud has effects far more people than one man with a knife can.

In a societal sense you're most likely right. But on the LUAS or 77 bus into the city center, the gimp with a middle name of Wacker should be the one to be weary of.

foggy_lad

Simon2015 wrote: »

There could be any number of reasons why someone would carry a knife but is far from a Scumbag.

That doesn't make carrying a knife the right thing to do and does not always make it legal.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/print.html#sec9

PART III

Offensive Weapons


Possession of knives and other articles.


9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.


(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.


(4) Where a person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving which shall lie on him), has with him in any public place—


(a) any flick-knife, or


(b) any other article whatsoever made or adapted for use for causing injury to or incapacitating a person,


he shall be guilty of an offence.


(5) Where a person has with him in any public place any article intended by him unlawfully to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate any person either in a particular eventuality or otherwise, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(6) In a prosecution for an offence under subsection (5), it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to allege or prove that the intent to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate was intent to cause injury to, incapacitate or intimidate a particular person; and if, having regard to all the circumstances (including the type of the article alleged to have been intended to cause injury, incapacitate or intimidate, the time of the day or night, and the place), the court (or the jury as the case may be) thinks it reasonable to do so, it may regard possession of the article as sufficient evidence of intent in the absence of any adequate explanation by the accused.


(7) (a) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both.


(b) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (4) or (5) shall be liable—


(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months or to both, or


(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both.


(8) In this section “public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise, and includes any club premises and any train, vessel or vehicle used for the carriage of persons for reward.


(9) In this section “flick-knife” means a knife—


(a) which has a blade which opens when hand pressure is applied to a button, spring, lever or other device in or attached to the handle, or


(b) which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and when released is locked in an open position by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.

Simon2015 wrote: »

I've carried one when I was going camping.

Under subsection 2 above you might have a valid reason but any judge worth their salt will ask were you camping on the luas platform and if not then why was the knife on your person and not packed away with the rest of your camping gear.

stunmer wrote: »

My job requires me to have a knife. People who camp, sailors, scouts all may be carrying knives.

Does it require you to carry that knife in public? subsection 2 above would apply but you would have to prove that you could not reasonably put the knife away securely while out in public.

Alad in Carlow tried that defence a few years ago when found on the street looking for someone he wanted to "see", he was carrying a large butchers knife about 8 inches in length.

ABC101 wrote: »

While serious for you or I, in the eyes of the law it is a bit of a non event, the culprits will just give the old sob story of how they had a rough / disavantaged childhood and how they did not get the same chances as others .... And voila...they will be off with a caution!

Or "he dissed me on facebook and posted that he was coming to kick my head in" so it was self defence your honour.

easygoing1982

Reati wrote: »

What a load of sh*t. Typical uneducated about the world attitude. The world isn't some black and white place where you can have these absolute laws. There is plenty of reasons one might have a knife on them, the most logically one is for ones job.

But because some scumbag stabs someone, your logical, clearly well thought through solution is anyone who ever carrys a knife on them (and unless you are carrying it your hand it's likely to fall under the "concealed" aspect) should face jail.

Using that logic, we should have fixed term sentences for people who are drunk in public in case they might fight or people who speed because they might cause a road accident.

But that'd be ridiculous... Wouldn't it.

well what about a knife and pepper spray then.

name one job that requires a knife only? Why only carry the knife if there's more tools required for ones job.

Christ, posters saying that some people need to carry a concealed standalone knife while out in public is the same sort of rubbish argument the gun toting crazies would use in the USA to justify carrying a handgun in public.

mfceiling

easygoing1982 wrote: »

well what about a knife and pepper spray then.

name one job that requires a knife only? Why only carry the knife if there's more tools required for ones job.

What if you are a professional stabber? Or a butcher who's only allowed to cut the fat off rashers? Or a sailor in charge of cutting things? Or a scout with only his knife badge? Loads of reasons to be in possession of a knife!!

shampoosuicide

Dravokivich wrote: »

When i worked in a stock room, i used a knife for opening up packaging. I didnt have a locker in work. So was always carrying it to and from.

safety knives exist for this purpose. most workplaces provide them

LDN_Irish

RDM_83 again wrote: »

A way tougher line with knife crime and going armed with knives needs to be taken though, in the area I live now (UK) there's been two extremely serious stabbings in the last month or so.

How the law is written might take some working out but even if you simply made it that anyone with a recent criminal conviction faced mandatory time (and actually had to serve it) for carrying a knife it would still improve the situation.

There were mandatory 5 year sentences introduced for being caught with a knife in Britain when I lived there. Is that not the case now? People were getting stabbed to death all the time when I lived there ending around 2009, at least weekly.

LDN_Irish

Streetwalker wrote: »

:pac: I grew up in that estate. Rough? You need to get out more my friend.

Welcome to Ireland, where Dublin is the worst kip in the western world and towns with more than 2 council estates are no go areas. Allegedly, loike.

anncoates

Between the usual tired social narratives you get in here, the truth is somewhere in between. The Red Line is the much rougher line but it's not the transit Beirut of lore; the Green Line is much safer but isn't completely guaranteed to be trouble free.

steddyeddy

Everytime there's an incident in a relatively well off area there's a rush of people coming in to say "yea but ballywhatever in north Dublin is worse". No need to be so insecure about it.

shruikan2553

Simon2015 wrote: »

If all the Scumbags are going to be carrying knives then law abiding citizens should also have a right to carry them to defend themselves against the Scumbags.

We'll be hearing a lot more Australian accents on the luas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWl8EbNN8NM

Except instead of saving themselves they'll probably cut themselves before getting stabbed because they have no ****ing idea how to use a knife. It wont be some little sword fight.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually I think financial fraud effects far more people than one man with a knife can.

I don't think that's true. At least financial fraud creates employment: regulation, oversight, auditing, and so on.

Whereas you seem to think knife crime only affects the direct victim. Actually if affects all of society: in areas with a problem of knife crime, people feel too anxious to leave their homes at night, and they are constantly apprehensive about their personal security and experience stress in relation to the security of their loved ones, especially their children. Try place a friendly hand on the shoulder of a stranger at night time in any city in the world: people have become so distrustful, they instantly assume you are trying to harm them.

Corporate fraud is bad, and stressful to an extent, but it is not comparable to the effects of knife crime or violence generally.

suicide_circus

Loads of feral mutant children from the toxic landfill get on at ballyogan and terrify the fare payers on the green line

stehyl15

suicide_circus wrote: »

Loads of feral mutant children from the toxic landfill get on at ballyogan and terrify the fare payers on the green line

Terrify? Id more call them a little bit annoying at times. How are they terrifing what by wearing jd sports tracksuits or something

strandroad

stehyl15 wrote: »

Terrify? Id more call them a little bit annoying at times. How are they terrifing what by wearing jd sports tracksuits or something

TBH it's only a sign of how vanilla green line is if Ballyogan kids are brought up as the worst thing on it...

RedemptionZ

mhge wrote: »

TBH it's only a sign of how vanilla green line is if Ballyogan kids are brought up as the worst thing on it...

What time do you get the LUAS? If you get it home from work at normal hours then you're not gonna get any trouble. Most of the people who cause issue are feral kids with nothing to do just after school and at night when people are heading into town. Ballyogan is by no means the worst place in Dublin but it's certainly not the nicest either. A place is never as good or as bad as people say.

strandroad

RedemptionZ wrote: »

What time do you get the LUAS? If you get it home from work at normal hours then you're not gonna get any trouble. Most of the people who cause issue are feral kids with nothing to do just after school and at night when people are heading into town. Ballyogan is by no means the worst place in Dublin but it's certainly not the nicest either. A place is never as good or as bad as people say.

Mostly evenings and weekends actually. I certainly noticed those kids but nothing threatening about them? They should take their messing off the Luas if it happens, that's all, but often they do nothing special at all, unless wearing trackies counts...

jungleman

Reati wrote: »

What a load of sh*t. Typical uneducated about the world attitude. The world isn't some black and white place where you can have these absolute laws. There is plenty of reasons one might have a knife on them, the most logically one is for ones job.

But because some scumbag stabs someone, your logical, clearly well thought through solution is anyone who ever carrys a knife on them (and unless you are carrying it your hand it's likely to fall under the "concealed" aspect) should face jail.

Using that logic, we should have fixed term sentences for people who are drunk in public in case they might fight or people who speed because they might cause a road accident.

But that'd be ridiculous... Wouldn't it.

Your reply is laughable. "Uneducated about the world attitude"... That made me laugh, well done.

Yeah there may be reasons for carrying a knife. As discussed, some people are sailors, campers or scouts. So they may well have reasons for carrying a knife on their person. This however is a thread about two guys stabbing not only one man, but also the man who came to the first victims aid. We're not talking about scouts or sailors here, we're talking about violent people carrying knives with intent to kill or maim. Are you following me so far?

You think the idea of fixed term sentences is "a load of ****". In England there are mandatory sentences for aggravated knife possession in the cases of 16/17 year olds to deter them from doing it again. Maybe you can enlighten their police force with your educated about the world attitude.

Egginacup

anncoates wrote: »

Between the usual tired social narratives you get in here, the truth is somewhere in between. The Red Line is the much rougher line but it's not the transit Beirut of lore; the Green Line is much safer but isn't completely guaranteed to be trouble free.

And you get your fair share of scumbags on the Dart as well. Going out to trash Howth and Portmarnock on a Saturday. Dun Laoighaire can be a bit rough too.

Egginacup

Egginacup wrote: »

And you get your fair share of scumbags on the Dart as well. Going out to trash Howth and Portmarnock on a Saturday. Dun Laoighaire can be a bit rough too.

Reminds me of the (otherwise unfunny) Ross O'Carroll Kelly, c. 2006

Different people call it different things. It storts off in, like, Howth and Sutton as The Doort. As it makes its way through Killester and Harmonstown towards it becomes De Deert Bud. Once it clears the city centre and hits Sandymeish and Sydney Parade it's, like, The Daart Darling.

Booterstown, Blackrock and Monkstown it's, like, The Dort.

Slight patch of turbulence in Dun Laoghaire, when it becomes De Fooken Deeert, but normal service resumes when it hits Sandycaiv, Glengeary, Dawkey and Cliney, when it's The Dooorsh.

Then it's, like, Skankill and Bray and it's like, De Bleedin Trayin