Irish state now will now accept a trans persons own declaration of their gender

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

You need to speak to a mental health professional and get a diagnosis of suffering from gender dysphoria in order to get a referal to an endocrinologist and get hormone treatment, and you're required to get two supporting recommendations from mental health professionals as well as an endocrinologist, and to have been on hormone treatment for at least a year before you can be refered to a surgeon.

OK - because I was wondering whether it should be treated as a mental illness first and foremost then, once discovered whether this is the case or not, lead on to the procedure. Just that number of 50% suicide rate seems ludicrous to me and makes me think that it means 50% of people shouldn't have been allowed to go through with it. Again, I'm talking about something I don't really understand so apologies if I'm coming across as wrong.

KomradeBishop

zeffabelli wrote: »

When they start reclassifying I have to wonder if it's any true reflection of A mental health issue or is it done to legitimise one and remove the stigma from it. Does it also mean insurance doesn't have to cover it because it's not a disorder?

Now that we have shyness pills, obviously because the U.S. Is such an extroverted culture how do shy people function, the flaw is at the foot of the shy person, and not of the culture.

How can anyone take this seriously?

That's a good question - I saw a bit of discussion of that when Googling it earlier, and it seems that for the US DSM V manual, the only bit that is still a 'disorder' (and thus applicable for insurance payments) is when it is negatively impacting a persons quality of life, i.e. psychologically - so it's not feeling identity with a different gender that is a disorder, but the negative mental health effect of feeling part of the wrong gender.


Ya indeed, introversion/shyness is still definitely something that is still pretty widely discriminated against throughout most of society, although there are cases legitimately treatable through medication, where the anxiety is crippling for social interaction.

A large part of the problem with recovering from that though - even when the anxiety is mostly gone - is that there is pretty much zero support for such issues, and with what little support there is, there are huge/very-wide areas of problems that can develop from it, which are simply not even on the radar of mental health professionals in even the most well funded countries (not that big a surprise, given how rudimentary and non-evidence-based a lot of mental health help is - the closer you look at the problems within the mental health industry, the more skeptical you get of the entire profession - despite it having legitimate merits).

That's a very complicated one actually, where I think the difficulty recovering from it for some people, is actually down to the way society is itself run at a very fundamental/core level - up to and including how big a demand work places on peoples lives, and the social effects of that (how attitudes in workplaces and time demands, affect peoples interactions socially - helping make society more isolating - among more), and how for many such people, it can greatly limit them in that area of life (which financially, can limit the rest of their entire lives - this is a major societal problem, which hasn't yet had the same watershed moment that depression has, in public awareness, yet it is at least as severe).

Links234

Deleted User wrote: »

OK - because I was wondering whether it should be treated as a mental illness first and foremost then, once discovered whether this is the case or not, lead on to the procedure. Just that number of 50% suicide rate seems ludicrous to me and makes me think that it means 50% of people shouldn't have been allowed to go through with it. Again, I'm talking about something I don't really understand so apologies if I'm coming across as wrong.

You're making the mistake of assuming that the number 50% is of the people who have undergone surgery, it's not. It's not actually 50% either, it's 41%. And it's the percentage of transgender people who have attempted suicide. There are a lot of external factors in why that suicide rate is so high, for example family acceptance was a huge factor, and that those who were rejected by their families were 19% more likely to attempt suicide.

zeffabelli

KomradeBishop wrote: »

That's a good question - I saw a bit of discussion of that when Googling it earlier, and it seems that for the US DSM V manual, the only bit that is still a 'disorder' (and thus applicable for insurance payments) is when it is negatively impacting a persons quality of life, i.e. psychologically - so it's not feeling identity with a different gender that is a disorder, but the negative mental health effect of feeling part of the wrong gender.


Ya indeed, introversion/shyness is still definitely something that is still pretty widely discriminated against throughout most of society, although there are cases legitimately treatable through medication, where the anxiety is crippling for social interaction.

A large part of the problem with recovering from that though - even when the anxiety is mostly gone - is that there is pretty much zero support for such issues, and with what little support there is, there are huge/very-wide areas of problems that can develop from it, which are simply not even on the radar of mental health professionals in even the most well funded countries (not that big a surprise, given how rudimentary and non-evidence-based a lot of mental health help is - the closer you look at the problems within the mental health industry, the more skeptical you get of the entire profession - despite it having legitimate merits).

That's a very complicated one actually, where I think the difficulty recovering from it for some people, is actually down to the way society is itself run at a very fundamental/core level - up to and including how big a demand work places on peoples lives, and the social effects of that (how attitudes in workplaces and time demands, affect peoples interactions socially - helping make society more isolating - among more), and how for many such people, it can greatly limit them in that area of life (which financially, can limit the rest of their entire lives - this is a major societal problem, which hasn't yet had the same watershed moment that depression has, in public awareness, yet it is at least as severe).

This is the case with all disorders, whether asd or adhs or whatever... You only get the diagnosis when your life is a mess. If your life is in order, you don't have the dis- order.

Some like adhd can lead to so many self esteem problems that the symptoms of other disorders end up manifesting.

I was told South county Dublin has the highest asd rate in the nation, but that could come down to more people with money to get the diagnosis. Though private health insurance will cover crackpot nonsense like homeopathy, it won't cover mental health diagnosis. Either they don't have the money for it or it has even less credibility than the snake oil salesman.

My problem with all of is why do you need the official label to get some understanding? Example, kids uniforms. The asd label will get you an exemption from wearing a tie or wool jumper, sensory processing disorder will get you other exemptions. Why is " I just don't feel good with this," not good enough?

Does it ever happen where someone has been told that they cannot go through with the procedure? When you say it's not the number that have undergone the surgery .. what do you mean? I agree with you about the acceptance possibly being a big factor, but sadly this would be the case more often than not. In your experience, Links, did they prepare you for this possibility happening?

I'd also be interested in knowing whether the LGB (purposefully leaving out T as that is the topic at hand) community faces similar statistics?

Links234

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it ever happen where someone has been told that they cannot go through with the procedure?

I don't know, it's possible but I don't know of any data on this.

Deleted User wrote: »

When you say it's not the number that have undergone the surgery .. what do you mean?

I mean it's a statistic that is refering to transgender people regardless of surgical status, who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives, not a statistic refering to those who have committed suicide post-op.

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with you about the acceptance possibly being a big factor, but sadly this would be the case more often than not. In your experience, Links, did they prepare you for this possibility happening?

They? As in the psychologist or doctors? Did they prepare me for family rejection? No, because I came out to my family before even making an appointment with the psychologist. And if you're wondering, my family eventually came around, but that wasn't the case at first. Being told by my own mother that that she thought it was best if we just went our separate ways was one of the most soul-crushing things I've ever experienced, and those are words that will probably haunt me for the rest of my life.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd also be interested in knowing whether the LGB (purposefully leaving out T as that is the topic at hand) community faces similar statistics?

Yes, they do.

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

They? As in the psychologist or doctors? Did they prepare me for family rejection? No, because I came out to my family before even making an appointment with the psychologist. And if you're wondering, my family eventually came around, but that wasn't the case at first. Being told by my own mother that that she thought it was best if we just went our separate ways was one of the most soul-crushing things I've ever experienced, and those are words that will probably haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, psychologists (and doctors, really). Should it be a part of the sessions, to get those wanting to go through with the procedure better prepared for what comes and what could potentially come afterwards?

I can only imagine how horrible that must have felt to hear that from your own mother ...

Also I'm wary that I'm probably being a bit of an arse asking a billion questions you've likely answered a trillion times over, so I'll hush up now :pac:

Mint Aero

Dimithy wrote: »

Off you go so.
Although that says more about you, than this news, or actual transgender people.

No idea what you are on about. Are you even trying to make sense or being deliberately obtuse? What does it say about me exactly? That I've taken something which is ridiculous and not been thought through and pointed out glaring holes in it? Yes.

Dimithy

Mint Aero wrote: »

No idea what you are on about. Are you even trying to make sense or being deliberately obtuse? What does it say about me exactly? That I've taken something which is ridiculous and not been thought through and pointed out glaring holes in it? Yes.

Of course you know what I'm on about, give up.

darkpagandeath

Dimithy wrote: »

Of course you know what I'm on about, give up.

How has Ireland's no regulation on stuff worked out.

Meesared

Mint Aero wrote: »

Absolutely nothing stopping from declaring myself a woman and going into female locker rooms now. I dont get this, sounds like it's not been thought out. As usual by Joan.

Have you ever heard of a news story where this has happened? Remember this regulation already exists in other countries in the world, its not just Ireland. Scaremongering about something that doesn't and hasn't happened is silly.

Annasopra

The Gender Recognition Act was signed into law yesterday by Joan Burton. The requirement to be single is not included in the law because President Higgins signed the marriage equality referendum last week.

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=20394040945a32c736eefb556&id=1a917f3c8e

Fantastic news.

Delighted that the 18 year horror for Lydia Foy came to an end