Top London employers discriminate agains't working class people

steddyeddy

Just curious how many people were asked in jobs where they went to school and grew up? I had a total of 16 interviews for postdoc, PhD and industry positions in the UK and Ireland and not once was I asked about that.

Fratton Fred

My brother, like me, went to the local secondary school, got a first class honours degree, did his articles etc and did his time with PWC, but when he came to move on, he kept getting rejected in preference to some halfwit from a Public school.

His friend, a partner in a big four law firm, wrote him a glowing reference and he managed to get a foot in the door.

He is now an equity partner in a venture capital company and has taken on the responsibility of looking at all CVs when they are recruiting. He doesn't use agencies either.

He hates the self serving public schoolboy culture of The City and is waging his own small war against it. He is very successful as well, because he has this bizarre notion of recruiting based on merit, not who you buggered at boarding school.

K4t

^That's great just as long as he doesn't discriminate against the public school buggers of course.

El_Duderino 09

Roquentin wrote: »

ive seen both extremes (people from poorer areas and the affluent areas) and i have to say i get on better with the lads from poorer areas. i found teh rich kids a bit too upper classy

But the important thing is that you'd never get involved in stereotyping, right?

steddyeddy

K4t wrote: »

^That's great just as long as he doesn't discriminate against the public school buggers of course.

For some reason it seems more acceptable to discriminate against people who had zero start in life compared to those that had everything.

steddyeddy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But the important thing is that you'd never get involved in stereotyping, right?

I love how when richer kids get stereotyped it's bad but you had complete silence on children born into poverty being stereotyped.

Roquentin

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But the important thing is that you'd never get involved in stereotyping, right?

never

osarusan

steddyeddy wrote: »

I love how when richer kids get stereotyped it's bad but you had complete silence on children born into poverty being stereotyped.

When was this?

steddyeddy

Going to war on the public school boy culture does not mean discriminating agains't public school boys. In my view it means returning to a system where selection is based on merit and not the school you went to which is not based on merit. It's based on your family's income.

c_man

Class divisions in Britain? Fuk me, what's the world coming to.

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote: »

For some reason it seems more acceptable to discriminate against people who had zero start in life compared to those that had everything.

Strange that you would thank a post which is so hostile towards children who went to better schools. Those children didn't choose to go to Rock any more than the chlldren choose to go to their local school of hard knocks.

I know you started this thread under the guise of equality but you let the mask slip a bit. Quick, say something about how you hate stereotypes again

PARlance

Don't let your background be an excuse for all those rejections Steddyeddy. Some people just don't hire people with chips on their shoulders.

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote: »

I love how when richer kids get stereotyped it's bad but you had complete silence on children born into poverty being stereotyped.

I was agreeing with the posters who were against discriminating against working class people and didn't feel the need to chyme in. Unlike yourself, I'm also against discrimination against rich children.

Feel free to experience having your mind blown by someone introducing actual equality to your trite 'overthrow the masters' thread

El_Duderino 09

PARlance wrote: »

Don't let your background be an excuse for all those rejections Steddyeddy. Some people just don't hire people with chips on their shoulders.

Needs an industrial size squeezy bottle of 'red sauce' for a chip like that.

Oafley Jones

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My brother, like me, went to the local secondary school, got a first class honours degree, did his articles etc and did his time with PWC, but when he came to move on, he kept getting rejected in preference to some halfwit from a Public school.

His friend, a partner in a big four law firm, wrote him a glowing reference and he managed to get a foot in the door.

He is now an equity partner in a venture capital company and has taken on the responsibility of looking at all CVs when they are recruiting. He doesn't use agencies either.

He hates the self serving public schoolboy culture of The City and is waging his own small war against it. He is very successful as well, because he has this bizarre notion of recruiting based on merit, not who you buggered at boarding school.

This is a bit of an odd one. This tale of triumph shows that as long as you've friends who are partners in big law firms that you can beat the old boy's network.

steddyeddy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Strange that you would thank a post which is so hostile towards children who went to better schools. Those children didn't choose to go to Rock any more than the chlldren choose to go to their local school of hard knocks.

I know you started this thread under the guise of equality but you let the mask slip a bit. Quick, say something about how you hate stereotypes again

Obviously missed the post where I reported a lecturer who rejected people from private school based on their background dude.

steddyeddy

PARlance wrote: »

Don't let your background be an excuse for all those rejections Steddyeddy. Some people just don't hire people with chips on their shoulders.

What rejections?

steddyeddy

To reiterate:

Going to war on the public school boy culture does not mean discriminating agains't public school boys. In my view it means returning to a system where selection is based on merit and not the school you went to which is not based on merit. It's based on your family's income

This doesn't mean discriminating against private school. On the contrary it means not taking the school into account at all. Unlike what's happening now.

PARlance

steddyeddy wrote: »

To reiterate:

Going to war on the public school boy culture does not mean discriminating agains't public school boys. In my view it means returning to a system where selection is based on merit and not the school you went to which is not based on merit. It's based on your family's income

This doesn't mean discriminating against private school. On the contrary it means not taking the school into account at all. Unlike what's happening now.

Returning to a system??? When was this golden age of non descrimination?

You might want to rethink your terminology.
"Going to war on the public school boy culture" denotes a bias against them.
Why not just say "going to war against descrimination".

steddyeddy

PARlance wrote: »

Returning to a system??? When was this golden age of non descrimination?

You might want to rethink your terminology.
"Going to war on the public school boy culture" denotes a bias against them.
Why not just say "going to war against descrimination".

Because the commission found there was a public school boy culture.

PARlance

steddyeddy wrote: »

Because the commission found there was a public school boy culture.

Did they recommend going to war against it?

steddyeddy

PARlance wrote: »

Did they recommend going to war against it?

Don't know but I think it's important to fight all forms of discrimination. I think you're conflating public school boys with the public school boys culture.

PARlance

steddyeddy wrote: »

Don't know but I think it's important to fight all forms of discrimination. I think you're conflating public school boys with the public school boys culture.

No, I'm aware of the difference.

steddyeddy

Saying I hate a group because I want to deny them unearned benefits is like saying I hate men because I want to end discrimination against women.

El_Duderino 09

steddyeddy wrote: »

Saying I hate a group because I want to deny them unearned benefits is like saying I hate men because I want to end discrimination against women.

But it would be OK to 'go to war with man culture' and you'd expect people to know what you mean?

anncoates

MattD1349 wrote: »

A good friend of mine is a highly qualified accountant in a very well known company. He is originally from Jobstown in Tallaght yet to look at him or listen to him you'd never know. Worked just as hard to adopt a D4 accent just as hard as he worked in college which was a scholarship. He was never let forget where he was from while in college or how he was there by all the students who were sent there by 'Mom & Dod.'.

I grew up in that part of Dublin too and went to TCD. Most people didn't care less from what I could see, at least not to my face. To be honest, being young, I was more of an insecure arse about it than them.

Streetwalker

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Ireland doesn't have a class system.

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

steddyeddy wrote: »

Studies done by the social mobility and child poverty commission found that top legal, finance and accounting firms discriminate against people from working class backgrounds

Will their next study going to be about.....

Bears being catholic or The Pope $hitting in the woods ?

The Backwards Man

As an employer I was always influenced by where a person was from and I make no apology for it. *Generalisation alert* I always found that country people were more hard working, diligent and loyal than townsfolk, with far less notions of self importance and entitlement. If your address was Main St. you had to have a hell of a good CV to impress me. Like it or not, that's the way the world is.

anncoates

The Backwards Man wrote: »

As an employer I was always influenced by where a person was from and I make no apology for it. *Generalisation alert* I always found that country people were more hard working, diligent and loyal than townsfolk, with far less notions of self importance and entitlement. If your address was Main St. you had to have a hell of a good CV to impress me. Like it or not, that's the way the world is.

You mean you're a mullah and you don't like townies.

P_1

It is a sad indictment on society alright. I know that if I wanted to get out on the job market again I'll have to use the folk's address on the CV, even though their place is miles away from town and where I'm currently living is only 10 minutes from town, due to the postcode snobbery that is there.

steddyeddy

The Backwards Man wrote: »

As an employer I was always influenced by where a person was from and I make no apology for it. *Generalisation alert* I always found that country people were more hard working, diligent and loyal than townsfolk, with far less notions of self importance and entitlement. If your address was Main St. you had to have a hell of a good CV to impress me. Like it or not, that's the way the world is.

Well as I said previously. Just because bigots discriminate doesn't mean we shouldn't make moves to change it.

steddyeddy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But it would be OK to 'go to war with man culture' and you'd expect people to know what you mean?

Instead of you and the parl chap getting pedantic about the words I'm using would you care to share your thoughts on the article? You both chimed in when someone suggested going to war against a culture of discrimination.

diomed

I am reading "Bull - the biography" by Howard Wright published in 1995.

Phil Bull wrote in 1980 "Ex-public schoolboys fill 43 per cent of army commissions, 54 per cent of diplomatic posts, 60 per cent of top civil service positions and 70 per cent of directorates of top firms. 75 per cent of Conservative MPs, 77 per cent of directors of the Bank of England, 80 per cent of judges and QCs, and over 90 percent of Ministers are ex-public schoolboys. All from six per cent of the population. But the Jockey Club beats the lot hands down.
When I last looked up the score, its memberships was 100 per cent from public schools, and 63 per cent were Etonians. Just to round it off, 71 per cent were commissioned officers or titled gentlemen."

Working class people do the work.

El_Duderino 09

The Backwards Man wrote: »

As an employer I was always influenced by where a person was from and I make no apology for it. *Generalisation alert* I always found that country people were more hard working, diligent and loyal than townsfolk, with far less notions of self importance and entitlement. If your address was Main St. you had to have a hell of a good CV to impress me. Like it or not, that's the way the world is.

Steddyeddy is worried about helping working class Dublin fellas fight oppression of public school culture. He's not going to care about culchies.

Be fair though. The difference between a fella from the country side and a fella from a small regional town couldn't be that significant in reality. Much more likely that you're more able to relate to the country fella and get the best out of them.

Otherwise big towns (like Portlaoise) would be full of lazy tossers and just wouldn't get anything done, let alone places like London and New York

steddyeddy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Steddyeddy is worried about helping working class Dublin fellas fight oppression of public school culture. He's not going to care about culchies.

Be fair though. The difference between a fella from the country side and a fella from a small regional town couldn't be that significant in reality. Much more likely that you're more able to relate to the country fella and get the best out of them.

Otherwise big towns (like Portlaoise) would be full of lazy tossers and just wouldn't get anything done, let alone places like London and New York

Care to get the chip off your shoulder? I have posted about sexism, discrimination against a private school chap applying for a PhD position discrimination against people via their background.

Several people have posted saying it happens and your contribution has been to make accuse me of discrimination against public school boys all because I want to stop discrimination against working class people.

fleet_admiral

BattleCorp wrote: »

My missus applied for loads of jobs that she was well qualified for. She kept putting down our home address and she kept getting nowhere.

I told her to put down her Aunt's address in Dalkey. First job that she applied to using that address, she got the job.

I'm not saying that the address got her the job but.......................

Same thing happened to my wifes cousin who is a qualified accountant from Finglas. Couldnt get anything so changed her address to her uncles in Malahide. She wasnt waiting long before the phone started ringing

steddyeddy

This is mad guys. People apply from some of the perceived most violent areas of Dublin for PhDs in science and it's never been an issue. It doesn't seem to be a huge issue for science in the UK either.

steddyeddy

PARlance wrote: »

Don't let your background be an excuse for all those rejections Steddyeddy. Some people just don't hire people with chips on their shoulders.

I see this attitude again and again in every debate I give. Some people see removing positive discrimination towards public school boys as hating private school boys. Sense of entitlement springs to mind.

steddyeddy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

My brother, like me, went to the local secondary school, got a first class honours degree, did his articles etc and did his time with PWC, but when he came to move on, he kept getting rejected in preference to some halfwit from a Public school.

His friend, a partner in a big four law firm, wrote him a glowing reference and he managed to get a foot in the door.

He is now an equity partner in a venture capital company and has taken on the responsibility of looking at all CVs when they are recruiting. He doesn't use agencies either.

He hates the self serving public schoolboy culture of The City and is waging his own small war against it. He is very successful as well, because he has this bizarre notion of recruiting based on merit, not who you buggered at boarding school.

Fair play to him Fred. He's an inspiration. I hope he does make moves to change things.

the_syco

steddyeddy wrote: »

Check out this comic on Privilege. I think it highlights some of the views found on this thread.

The full comic is fairly true.

steddyeddy wrote: »

I mentioned working class you described people not getting a job based on them walking into the an interview like a junkie. I don't know how you can assume anyone who made it through a college education acts like that.

I went to an IT, so can't say it's the same for colleges, but your knowledge gets you through your degree in 3rd level in my view. I think the "junkie shuffle" is a tongue in cheek way of saying "not acting normal". Going to an interview wearing jeans and a t-shirt would be, IMO, the junkie shuffle (have seen it, and they didn't get the job).

Roquentin wrote: »

i have to say i get on better with the lads from poorer areas.

Once they're not ashamed of it.

Oafley Jones wrote: »

This is a bit of an odd one. This tale of triumph shows that as long as you've friends who are partners in big law firms that you can beat the old boy's network.

A (very) cynical view would be that people who have friends in high places can beat the old boys network of having friends in high places, who.... oh, hold on a moment... :pac:

steddyeddy wrote: »

Care to get the chip off your shoulder?

Someone without bias is biased against those with bias, imo. But those with bias will see those without bias as having bias based on how they judge everyone.

FrStone

I worked in one of the largest law firms in the country and while some associates are hired from working class backgrounds, most will be from middle to upperclass.

It's logical from the firms perspective to do this too. Like in Science, Steddy was saying that hiring is based on merit, and I suppose in a Science job whoever is the best at the science is the best for the job.

However in law firms etc all possible candidates will have the 500 + points in the leaving, the 1.1 degree etc. They will all end up going to blackhall place and will all be proficient solicitors. Being a good solicitor is not enough though, the firm looks for those who can bring in new clients, new work etc. Those who are best placed to bring in new clients are those who are members of the so called "old boys club". They have connections that those in working class backgrounds generally don't have. A big part of the job as you qualify is increasing fee income.

You just have to take a look at the equity partners in these and accounting firms, look at their backgrounds and you will see what I mean. They have connections.

All the firms will pay lip service to diversity, however it used cause quite alot of problems as to what jobs people were assigned to. Certain rich clients could be incredibly racist, I was often rang up by clients asking could I put an Irish person on their job instead of "that foreign one".

c_man

P_1 wrote: »

due to the postcode snobbery that is there.

Nah, here in Ireland we came up with eircodes which no-one understands in order to combat any potential of that.

PARlance

steddyeddy wrote: »

This is mad guys. People apply from some of the perceived most violent areas of Dublin for PhDs in science and it's never been an issue. It doesn't seem to be a huge issue for science in the UK either.

For someone that is working/helping out kids in this area, I amazed by your amazement. It doesn't take much to realise that:

If an employer is hiring someone who is going to be stuck in a room splitting atoms all day... then they are obviously going to be less inclined to care what that persons skin colour, sex, accent, upbringing is and they will be more focused on raw talent/skill etc.
For an accountant, solicitor etc. they will be required to be the public face of the company within a few years once they have been worked like a dog and have gotten their qualification. So whilst they are an accountant, solicitor by trade, they are also a sales person for their employer, they represent their employer during meetings, projects etc with clients.

I'm not saying it's right, but it doesn't require a rocket scientist (from either Blackrock or Tallaght) to figure out why there is differences in selection preferences between them. Society and the business community need to change before the big law, accountancy firms will follow.

osarusan

I have heard that Keith Earls (who would have that Limerick accent) was not allowed to give interviews for Munster, to protect their brand image.

Not really a rugby fan so don't know if it is true or not.

jank

osarusan wrote: »

I have heard that Keith Earls (who would have that Limerick accent) was not allowed to give interviews for Munster, to protect their brand image.

Not really a rugby fan so don't know if it is true or not.

I think that is a Bull$hit story

DeadHand

osarusan wrote: »

I have heard that Keith Earls (who would have that Limerick accent) was not allowed to give interviews for Munster, to protect their brand image.

Not really a rugby fan so don't know if it is true or not.

I've heard Keith Earls interviewed a few times.

He infamously gave a dreamy, optimistic one he gave during the world cup. Infamous because it was fairly ill-advised, not because of his accent.

His father was widely regarded to have been the victim of snobbery- a man reckoned to have been plenty good enough to have played for Ireland but was never considered because he came from the wrong side of the tracks. Important to note he was rejected by Ireland not Munster who have always tended to be more inclusive than other setups we could mention.

pickarooney

PARlance wrote: »

CVs in braille?

I'd like to hear your plans for the interview process. Are personal questions allowed?
How do you cover up accents?

Skype chat?

Luke92

anncoates wrote: »

Do you reckon there's an epidemic of these college-educated people from working class backgrounds doing the pimp walk into interviews for professional positions, scowling and asking the interviewers for smokes?

I normally just ask them to hold the joint while I spread the hash in. Doesn't usually go down well.

Menas

FrStone wrote: »

I worked in one of the largest law firms in the country and while some associates are hired from working class backgrounds, most will be from middle to upperclass.

It's logical from the firms perspective to do this too. Like in Science, Steddy was saying that hiring is based on merit, and I suppose in a Science job whoever is the best at the science is the best for the job.

However in law firms etc all possible candidates will have the 500 + points in the leaving, the 1.1 degree etc. They will all end up going to blackhall place and will all be proficient solicitors. Being a good solicitor is not enough though, the firm looks for those who can bring in new clients, new work etc. Those who are best placed to bring in new clients are those who are members of the so called "old boys club". They have connections that those in working class backgrounds generally don't have. A big part of the job as you qualify is increasing fee income.

You just have to take a look at the equity partners in these and accounting firms, look at their backgrounds and you will see what I mean. They have connections.

All the firms will pay lip service to diversity, however it used cause quite alot of problems as to what jobs people were assigned to. Certain rich clients could be incredibly racist, I was often rang up by clients asking could I put an Irish person on their job instead of "that foreign one".

I would imagine it is a lot more expensive to get a law degree than a science degree too. Further making it more difficult for working class kids.