The English and their weird fascist nationalism again.

The Backwards Man

weldoninhio wrote: »

It was a nothing preseason friendly against a 2nd or 3rd division US team in America. If certain factions hadn't blown this out of proportion there would have been no reaction.

That's very true, ignoring it would have been the correct course of action, but there ain't many journalists that would gave up the opportunity of a feeding frenzy, as Jimmy well knows himself.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It might if someone newsworthy did it for the sole purpose of provoking a reaction, as is the case here. Sticking by what you believe in is one thing, stirring the pot is another thing entirely.

But that's being unfair on James McClean Backwards Man, he absolutely didn't do it 'solely' to purposely provoke a reaction. You're way off base dude. He did it because that song and flag is the symbol that members of his community died under. People don't have to pay respect to the ISIS flag, or the rainbow flag, or the whatever flag. If you have sincere beliefs over something that shouldn't be vilified.

endacl

sup_dude wrote: »

And I think this is where the biggest division in this thread is coming from. I think they're two seperate incidents.

Nah. The biggest division is football. I was nearly interested until I saw it was a footballist thingummy.

The Backwards Man

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

But that's being unfair on James McClean Backwards Man, he absolutely didn't do it 'solely' to purposely provoke a reaction. You're way off base dude. He did it because that song and flag is the symbol that members of his community died under. People don't have to pay respect to the ISIS flag, or the rainbow flag, or the whatever flag. If you have sincere beliefs over something that shouldn't be vilified.

I dunno, maybe I'm being a wee bit facetious, but I think that anybody that parks a Maserati outside his home house in Creggan Heights is well capable of causing a bit of controversy just for the sake of it.:pac:

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I dunno, maybe I'm being a wee bit facetious, but I think that anybody that parks a Maserati outside his home house in Creggan Heights is well capable of causing a bit of controversy just for the sake of it.:pac:

Yeah, just like you are 'capable' of rape and murder, but nobody is accusing you of being a murdering rapist (yet) :P

Carlos Orange

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

He did it because that song and flag is the symbol that members of his community died under. People don't have to pay respect to the ISIS flag, or the rainbow flag, or the whatever flag.

Would he have a problem showing respect for the tricolor? A few people in Derry died under that too.

Junkyard Tom

equivariant wrote: »

thousands of civilians murdered by the IRA during the 70s and 80s

Thousands?

[Of PIRA killings] 581 (31.8%) were classed as civilians, including 34 civilians employed by British forces, 8 members of the judiciary, 19 alleged criminals, and others.

wikipedia.org

My name is URL

sup_dude wrote: »

Why's he playing for an English football team if he doesn't want to stand for the English National Anthem?

Should those working for British or American businesses automatically be expected to stand for their national anthems?

And if you don't you should accept all the abuse and threats that's thrown at you I suppose?

Not surprising that most posts here are basically saying he deserves it and brought it on himself.

katydid

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

James McClean refused to stand and face towards the English flag while God Save The Queen was playing today and is now getting dogs abuse from many of the jingoistic English.
He doesn't want to respect the English national anthem, he doesn't want to wear a war poppy, he just wants to play some football. Why do so many English fans and press get so caught up and attack him?
He literally just can't stand there and respect any symbolism that represents forces that murdered people where he lives. The British Army were ruthless towards the people of Derry.

Let the man have his beliefs, they come from a very real place.

If he's that bothered, he shouldn't be working in a place where part of the job is showing respect for the national flag.

I'm with him on the poppy thing; that's way OTT in the UK and the pressure of people in sport and the media is ridiculous. But it's normal to play anthems at sporting events, and if he can't hack that, then he should consider another occupation.

katydid

john.han wrote: »

But they'd have no reason to do the same... the Irish nation never did what the British army did in Derry, you've kinda missed the point.

The point is that your and his idea of what the British army did or didn't do in Derry has nothing to do with showing respect for the people of England and their anthem at a public event. If he has a problem with some political issue, then he should feck off back to NI.

I said this already in the soccer forum, if I were him I would have have probably turned around in the same direction as my team mates and thought f*ck all of it. I would not have saluted it or anything but just stared ahead and hummed my own anthem in my head or thought about what I'd do in the game. I liken it to myself when I go a church for a funeral or that, I'll be respectful and perhaps stand but there's no chance I'll kneel for any man/god that I don't believe in. I think McClean has the right to not applaud an anthem etc but he could've easily turned around and not looked at or acknowledged the flag.

Moonriver99

As far as I'm concerned,he's hypocritical it's the fact that he can take a paycheck and play on a English team. if he wants to have some sort of principles, Why is he being so selective? The poppy and the turning away from the flag is what he does but he would never ever turn his back on the money. I respect people who have principles and morals but if you are gonna do that then stop playing for an English team. Think it's time people moved on. Any hatred should be at the people who were awful in the troubles. People today cannot be held responsible by their fellow country men's actions.

katydid

Cold War Kid wrote: »

It's not fair to imply this kind of fanaticism is just an English thing.

It's not fanaticism to be annoyed when someone insults your national anthem.

Junkyard Tom

katydid wrote: »

part of the job is showing respect for the national flag.

I very much doubt that was in his contract.

katydid

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It's not a requirement.

The only requirement is that he is good enough to play for the team.

I work for a French company but if Le Marseillaise was played I wouldn't stand up for it and I doubt my employers would expect me to.

It's not a requirement, but it's etiquette at sports events. Not in business.

katydid

eet fuk wrote: »

By that logic anyone who works for any English company should stand for the English national anthem.

When do they play the national anthem at business events?

blueser

My name is URL wrote: »

Should those working for British or American businesses automatically be expected to stand for their national anthems?

And if you don't you should accept all the abuse and threats that's thrown at you I suppose?

Not surprising that most posts here are basically saying he deserves it and brought it on himself.

"Most"? Damn; I've just spent ten minutes reading a totally different thread then. From what I rteasd on here, "most" are saying that he was well within his rights to do what he did.

tomwaterford

katydid wrote: »

When do they play the national anthem at business events?

How often do they play national anthems at club soccer matches?

NIMAN

katydid wrote: »

It's not a requirement, but it's etiquette at sports events. Not in business.

Its not the norm to play the British National Athem at a club level pre-season friendly. So McClean doesn't have to face this decision too often. In fact I'd say this is the 1st time its ever happened him.

They don't even play the NAs at the top level of football, the CL, where teams from different countries play each other.

Btw, there is also other pictures on the net of him standing facing forward with the rest of his teammates, but this one is conveniently not used as the 'mob' get their blood up.

osarusan

As I said elsewhere, I don't really care what he does, but if his feelings towards the anthem (and/or the country it is the anthem of) are so strong and so close to the surface that he can't make himself do the same as everybody else and just wait for it to be over, I do wonder how he manages to survive day to day in the UK.

katydid

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's people that stand by their principles no matter how right or wrong they are (and that's fair enough), and there's attention seeking clowns.

.

Exactly. If he had true principles he wouldn't be working for an English club and paying his taxes to their government.

sup_dude

sup_dude wrote: »

Whatever about the poppy, I agree with him there but he was playing an American team and therefore was representing England by playing with an English team, which is why the anthem was played. I would be very surprised if he didn't know that was going to happen.

Also, if he felt that strongly about it, then it shouldn't matter how much he's getting paid.

That's nonsense. National anthems aren't typically played when two club teams play. Dundalk played BATE Borisov this week and neither the Irish nor Belarussian anthems were played. Doesn't happen for any other Champions League matches either. In fact, this is the first I've ever heard of it with club football (with the exception of the FA Cup final) so to say he should have been expecting it isn't true.

katydid

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The only political statement made was the playing of a national anthem at a club fixture.

He just chose not to participate.

That's not a political statement. It's a statement of national pride.

NIMAN

osarusan wrote: »

As I said elsewhere, I don't really care what he does, but if his feelings towards the anthem (and/or the country it is the anthem of) are so strong and so close to the surface that he can't make himself do the same as everybody else and just wait for it to be over, I do wonder how he manages to survive day to day in the UK.

I'm sure he survives grand. Its not like he has people playing the national anthem or wave union flags at him everywhere he goes.

There is little need for an anthem to be played before football matches anyway. Never understood it.

katydid

NIMAN wrote: »

Its not the norm to play the British National Athem at a club level pre-season friendly. So McClean doesn't have to face this decision too often. In fact I'd say this is the 1st time its ever happened him.

They don't even play the NAs at the top level of football, the CL, where teams from different countries play each other.

Btw, there is also other pictures on the net of him standing facing forward with the rest of his teammates, but this one is conveniently not used as the 'mob' get their blood up.

It may not be the norm, but it happened on this occasion, and as a member of the team, it was rude and childish of him to behave the way he did. If he doesn't want to go along with the etiquette that goes with being a player on a sports team, then don't play for a club in a country you have a problem with.

katydid

tomwaterford wrote: »

How often do they play national anthems at club soccer matches?

Haven't a clue. More often than never, I should imagine.

NIMAN

katydid wrote: »

Haven't a clue. More often than never, I should imagine.

Very very rarely.This is the 1st I've heard of.

blueser

tomwaterford wrote: »

How often do they play national anthems at club soccer matches?

Generally, they (or "we", seeing as I'm English) don't. The only times I can think of when GSTQ is played at club game level is at the two domestic cup finals, the Community Shield pre-season game and possibly the Football League play-off finals. Probably because they're "showpiece" games and also maybe because they're played at Wembley.

QuinDixie

He has a problem with the God save our Queen, but has no problem with paying taxes to Her Majestys Revenue & Customs.
Money talks and Bull**** walks.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

I said this already in the soccer forum, if I were him I would have have probably turned around in the same direction as my team mates and thought f*ck all of it. I would not have saluted it or anything but just stared ahead and hummed my own anthem in my head or thought about what I'd do in the game. I liken it to myself when I go a church for a funeral or that, I'll be respectful and perhaps stand but there's no chance I'll kneel for any man/god that I don't believe in. I think McClean has the right to not applaud an anthem etc but he could've easily turned around and not looked at or acknowledged the flag.

I think that's more or less what his manager agreed with him afterwards, that it's Ok for him to take a stand but in a more "measured" way. Which seems sensible for all concerned.