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UFC 195: Lawler v Condit (Plus Duffy v Poirier - Information in OP)

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    #812
    Andre 3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭Andre 3000


    ASOT wrote: »
    10-8s are possible but even with last night's judging a 10-8 in the 5th was beyond the realms of possibility.

    I agree...but the poster I replied to said that rounds are independent of each other and one cannot be docked previous rounds for going for broke and losing a round badly, which is simply not true.


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    #813
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,531 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Lawler via Submission
    Just saw the main card there.

    Arlovski's chin still the same sadly.

    The decision in the main was awful really and I'm a big Lawler fan. Incredible fight though.


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    #814
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Duffy via Decision
    callaway92 wrote: »
    Just saw the main card there.

    Arlovski's chin still the same sadly.

    The decision in the main was awful really and I'm a big Lawler fan. Incredible fight though.

    Twas his ear, not his chin.

    Anyone getting tagged like that in/behind the ear is on a one way ticket to wobble town.


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    #815
    ASOT
    Registered Users Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Duffy via Submission
    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Twas his ear, not his chin.

    Anyone getting tagged like that in/behind the ear is on a one way ticket to wobble town.

    Yep the, Stipe connected in the perfect spot, fair play to him as much as I wanted him to win Stipe is bar far the better fighter, beat JDS aswell imo. Heavyweight decision looking fairly decent with him and the Reem challenging.


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    #816
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    Poirier via Decision
    Them spinning leg kicks Larkin and normal leg kicks were fire my god.


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    #817
    Paully D
    Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Is it just me that doesn't think it was a bad decision, just a very, very close one that really could have gone either way?

    I badly wanted Condit to win, so trying my best to hide my bias towards Carlos without overcompensating I think he won rounds 1 and 4 and Robbie won 2 and 5. I'd go as far as to say that I found those clear-ish, or as clear as they can be for close rounds would probably be more accurate.

    It all comes down to how you score the 3rd round for me. I gave it to Condit when watching initially, but I also posted here and said that the judges would probably give it to Lawler. It was very hard to call and I think if you have 100 judges score it it'd be near enough 50/50.

    Robbery is the likes of Sanchez's win over Pearson, or St-Pierre's win over Hendricks. This was just a very close fight that could have gone either way IMO.


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    #818
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Condit via KO/TKO
    Paully D wrote: »
    It all comes down to how you score the 3rd round for me. I gave it to Condit when watching initially, but I also posted here and said that the judges would probably give it to Lawler. It was very hard to call and I think if you have 100 judges score it it'd be near enough 50/50.

    And in this kind of scenario the champion will usually get the benefit of the doubt. There's a perception that the challenger "has to take the belt from the champion" with a lot of people.


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    #819
    CSF
    Registered Users Posts: 33,096 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Thought Condit edged the third myself, but don't think it's THAT big a shock that it was given in favour of Lawler. There was not much in it. That's the decider really because the other 4 were fairly decisive in their winner.


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    #820
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Duffy via Decision
    How did carlos lose that ? Im a big fan of robbie lawlor but thought condit clearly edged it


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    #821
    Davei141
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Duffy via Decision
    Lawler got beat in all aspects of this fight and I was up for him. Everyone including Lawler and his corner men thought he had to KO Condit in the 5th to win which says it all.


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    #822
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    Poirier via Decision
    I think everyone agrees it comes down to the 3rd round scoring so?


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    #823
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    Duffy via Submission
    This post has been deleted.


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    #824
    Davei141
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Duffy via Decision
    Gamebred wrote: »
    I think everyone agrees it comes down to the 3rd round scoring so?

    Watched the 3rd round again there. Lawler literally does nothing for 3.5 minutes of the round. He has a decent burst in parts of those 1.5 minutes but Condit was working the entire 5 minutes.

    Lawler landed way more in the 5th round than rounds 1-4 combined according to fight metric. 39 strikes landed rounds 1-4.


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    #825
    mailburner
    Registered Users Posts: 23,851 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    Duffy via Decision
    thought it was clearcut also with condit getting 3 rounds


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    #826
    Andre 3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭Andre 3000


    How can it a clear cut victory when people are scoring it 3-2? Let's pretend round 5 was the same as round 1, the you could talk robbery. But the fight was very close and ultimately it was round 3 that decided it. In no way, was last night a clear victory for Robbie or Carlos.


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    #827
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Paully D wrote: »
    Is it just me that doesn't think it was a bad decision, just a very, very close one that really could have gone either way?

    I badly wanted Condit to win, so trying my best to hide my bias towards Carlos without overcompensating I think he won rounds 1 and 4 and Robbie won 2 and 5. I'd go as far as to say that I found those clear-ish, or as clear as they can be for close rounds would probably be more accurate.

    It all comes down to how you score the 3rd round for me. I gave it to Condit when watching initially, but I also posted here and said that the judges would probably give it to Lawler. It was very hard to call and I think if you have 100 judges score it it'd be near enough 50/50.

    Robbery is the likes of Sanchez's win over Pearson, or St-Pierre's win over Hendricks. This was just a very close fight that could have gone either way IMO.

    Here's where I think you're mad - you think the GSP fight was a robbery but this was super close. That GSP fight was about as close as you can get. In almost every exchange Condit came out landing more strikes last night. The majority of this fight was on the outside where Carlos dominated. Not that I'm one for putting all my eggs into the stats basket, but Condit landed almost 2x as many significant strikes in the fight, and exactly 2x as many (22 to 11) in that 'controversial' 3rd round. I know you have to factor in some of the bombs Rob landed, the KD in R2 stole him that round, but the majority of this fight (more importantly 1, 3 and 4) Condit dominated the standup battle.


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    #828
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Andre 3000 wrote: »
    How can it a clear cut victory when people are scoring it 3-2? Let's pretend round 5 was the same as round 1, the you could talk robbery. But the fight was very close and ultimately it was round 3 that decided it. In no way, was last night a clear victory for Robbie or Carlos.

    It can be a 3-2 and a clear win - Condit clearly won 3 rounds imo, hence it's a clear win and a 48-47.


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    #829
    Paully D
    Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    I think this really does show what a tough job the judges have in some cases (some they're just blatantly wrong for sure and to be fair to them the correct decision is reached in a lot of cases too).

    We've watched the fight, many of us more than once now with replays from various angles etc, and we're never, ever going to come to anything near a consensus on here regarding that fight, even if we watched it 100 times each and discussed it for the next 12 months.


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    #830
    Andre 3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭Andre 3000


    CurryFlavoured wrote: »
    It can be a 3-2 and a clear win - Condit clearly won 3 rounds imo, hence it's a clear win and a 48-47.

    If he clearly won 3 rounds there would be no disputing today...this conversation would not be taking place.


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    #831
    Liam O
    Registered Users Posts: 19,153 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    I was saying last night that Condit was so dominant in rd. 4 I'd give him a 10-8. Lawler won rd. 3 in 2 of the judges eyes due to control of the Octagon more than anything. Keeping Condit close to the cage and cutting him off while being accurate when he throws rather than both hitting and missing a bunch may seem more skillful to judges. I mean I was up for Lawler and would have him losing by 2 or 3 points overall but people forget how they judge these, especially in title fights.


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    #832
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Andre 3000 wrote: »
    If he clearly won 3 rounds there would be no disputing today...this conversation would not be taking place.

    I think he did, and that the judges got it badly wrong. It's happened before and it'll happen again.


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    #833
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,787 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    CurryFlavoured wrote: »
    I think he did, and that the judges got it badly wrong. It's happened before and it'll happen again.


    I think we all agree it came down to round 3. Looking back on it, condit was busier in fairness, but busy throwing feints and tip tap kicks and punches. Didn't do or land anything decent except a good knee to Robbie.
    Whereas Robbie was much more aggressive, hit much harder and landed better shots. Kinda the way the whole fight played out.


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    #834
    Paully D
    Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/683535563958272000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    He has to mean on the Fight Pass Prelims, surely?


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    #835
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    I think we all agree it came down to round 3. Looking back on it, condit was busier in fairness, but busy throwing feints and tip tap kicks and punches. Didn't do or land anything decent except a good knee to Robbie.
    Whereas Robbie was much more aggressive, hit much harder and landed better shots. Kinda the way the whole fight played out.

    I'll rewatch r3 again. Maybe I'm biased because I feel on the whole, Condit was far superior. I doubt my opinion will change though. On first viewing, I'd have been more inclined to give 49-46 for CC than a 48-47 win for Rob.


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    #836
    mailburner
    Registered Users Posts: 23,851 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    Duffy via Decision
    CurryFlavoured wrote: »
    I'll rewatch r3 again. Maybe I'm biased because I feel on the whole, Condit was far superior. I doubt my opinion will change though. On first viewing, I'd have been more inclined to give 49-46 for CC than a 48-47 win for Rob.

    have rewatched round three and still think it was carlos who won that round
    when they were announcing the scores i half expected the last call to be 49/46


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    #837
    martyos121
    Registered Users Posts: 21,390 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    Lawler via Submission
    Just rewatched the third round on its own with no sound, and I completely understand how two judges gave that to Lawler. Condit threw far more shots, but landed very few heavy ones while Lawler picked his spots and in the first three minutes of the round caught Condit clean a few times. I originally gave that round and the fight to Condit but round 3 was extremely close and there's no controversy surrounding this decision, round 3 was tough as hell to call.


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    #838
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,787 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    martyos121 wrote: »
    Just rewatched the third round on its own with no sound, and I completely understand how two judges gave that to Lawler. Condit threw far more shots, but landed very few heavy ones while Lawler picked his spots and in the first three minutes of the round caught Condit clean a few times. I originally gave that round and the fight to Condit but round 3 was extremely close and there's no controversy surrounding this decision, round 3 was tough as hell to call.

    Couldn't agree more


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    #839
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Tigger wrote: »
    Attachment not found.

    Took this after the fight for posterity

    People that aren't on this but are on the current pole I have a question
    Why do you vote after the result ? 4 of ye decided " I think that now it's over I'll vote for the winner and the method "
    Do you show your friends
    Do you think it means anything ? You seem a little sad tbh


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    #840
    martyos121
    Registered Users Posts: 21,390 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    Lawler via Submission
    Tigger wrote: »
    People that aren't on this but are on the current pole I have a question
    Why do you vote after the result ? 4 of ye decided " I think that now it's over I'll vote for the winner and the method "
    Do you show your friends
    Do you think it means anything ? You seem a little sad tbh

    It's become a running joke. Don't read into it too much, it should be pretty clear I was joking based on my post about it last night.


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    #841
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    I was up for lawlor but as I watched it I thought "Christ that guys combos are terrifying" I tried to think how someone would beat his cardio and his strings of moves and decided that he was the sort of martial artist I thought existed from films when I was a kid
    i get there was little power in some of the shots but he was really impressive
    I suppose you have to beat the champ and if it's close you get a rematch
    Watching round three again and including Octagon control and aggression I suppose that could be a draw and that could mean the champ should retain but as a lawlor fan I thought he'd lost
    Rematch at 200 ?


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