Roberto Martinez Sacked

Jayop

Amazing that he couldn't get someone in to help him set up their defense. The issues they had just seemed so obvious to everyone apart from himself.

Giggsy11

CSF wrote: »

I know people would scoff at it because Bruce spent last season at Hull while Martinez was at Everton, but I'd have Bruce higher up the managerial food chain than Martinez. 2 consecutive bottom half finishes with a squad like Everton's is almost unheard of.

Mostly because nobody usually gets as far as the end of the 2nd season but it took ages for Martinez's unearned reputation to start to fade. It actually kind of bugs me when you consider certain managers who've descended into ridicule for less.

At one point few papers said Martinez would be Barca manager and how he is changing Everton into something the fans dreamed of (something along that line). Didn't last long.

Any manager who can sort out defense can't survive at bigger club. His Everton team played superbly in the first season but many said it won't take much time to see the defense falling apart.

Bruce is sort of mystery, sometimes his teams looks good and many a times they look like they don't belong in PL. But at least his Wigan team was better and much more watchable than Martinez's team.

Joshua J

Jayop wrote: »

Amazing that he couldn't get someone in to help him set up their defense. The issues they had just seemed so obvious to everyone apart from himself.

That's the thing he didn't think we had issues. It was the referees, the weather, the fans, too many games, anything but blame himself. He truly believed he was doing a great job and circumstances outside his control were the reason we were terrible. People who don't support Everton and haven't listened to his interviews for three years would say I'm joking. I'm not.

thebaz

SlickRic wrote: »

it's simple.

It's Arsene Wenger syndrome, only on a much smaller scale. he inherited stability, sprinkled it with his style, and Arsenal had the best team in the league for a period. But it waned.

No its not so simple - sure its popular to kick Wegener now when he's down, like it is with anyone - but he was a breadth of fresh air for English football , he has managed Arsenal into a new stadium , with little net investment , and yet year on year get Arsenal into the CL - did he not manage Arsenal unbeaten one season ? Arsenal have played some of the best football ever in the Premiership , that City with all there billions struggle to match . Same to a lesser extent with Martinez , he helped create the Swansea revolution, managed a small team to FA Cup - yes he failed at the bigger club , but no harm in trying - sometimes in life you fail , so not so simple.

Jayop

Joshua J wrote: »

That's the thing he didn't think we had issues. It was the referees, the weather, the fans, too many games, anything but blame himself. He truly believed he was doing a great job and circumstances outside his control were the reason we were terrible. People who don't support Everton and haven't listened to his interviews for three years would say I'm joking. I'm not.

Nah man I've heard him enough times to know exactly what you mean. I know you guys felt Moyes had hit a bit of a ceiling and had taken you as far as he could so a change at that time probably made a lot of sense, but it's hard to now if Moyes would have been able to step it up with the money you now seem to have. I know he was crap in the market for United with his hesitancy to do anything but he was much more confident in himself at Everton and with the scouting system he apparently had in place there I think you guys would be in a much better place had he stayed.

The big question now is, who next??

eh i dunno

Having watched just about every game of his three years I'm delighted he's gone. First year was a success based on a more attacking line up and the back 4 still well drilled in moyes's defensive methods. It was the perfect mix. Last season was a disaster with relegation still a possibility in late March.

This season got even worse. Wide open and no concentration whatsoever. We conceded so many goals after scoring and an even worse habit of quickly conceding two within 5 mins.

He won't get another premiership job but he might be a success somewhere in Spain.

He's made a mess of stones and Barkley's development and left an aging squad. Howard, jagielka, baines, Hibbert, Barry, osman, kone,pienaar.

And his biggest mistake. Buying a 14m striker called niasse who is phoenix Park standard.

Joshua J

Jayop wrote: »

Nah man I've heard him enough times to know exactly what you mean. I know you guys felt Moyes had hit a bit of a ceiling and had taken you as far as he could so a change at that time probably made a lot of sense, but it's hard to now if Moyes would have been able to step it up with the money you now seem to have. I know he was crap in the market for United with his hesitancy to do anything but he was much more confident in himself at Everton and with the scouting system he apparently had in place there I think you guys would be in a much better place had he stayed.

The big question now is, who next??

All Moyes was lacking during his time with us was a Lukaku, someone who would get him 25 goals a season. He was great in the transfer market getting cheap players and I guess it proves how good a coach he was that they improved under him. Utd was a poisoned chalice whoever took over was on a hiding to nothing if they didn't hit the ground running.

Who next for us?. Apparently we've been talking to Mourinhos people, Pellegrini is out of work and Frank De Boer has made it known he wants us. Skys the limit.

Jayop

Joshua J wrote: »

All Moyes was lacking during his time with us was a Lukaku, someone who would get him 25 goals a season. He was great in the transfer market getting cheap players and I guess it proves how good a coach he was that they improved under him. Utd was a poisoned chalice whoever took over was on a hiding to nothing if they didn't hit the ground running.

Who next for us?. Apparently we've been talking to Mourinhos people, Pellegrini is out of work and Frank De Boer has made it known he wants us. Skys the limit.

I swear if you get Mourinho and we're left with VanGaal there will be riots.

wally79

Jayop wrote: »

I swear if you get Mourinho and we're left with VanGaal there will be riots.

Hopefully LVG will lead you to FA cup glory and save his job

Lumbo

Talk of Jose to Everton is laughable

Agent Coulson

Martinez and Rodgers at job interviews over the coming months should be fun for interview panels at clubs I just hope the have there bullsh1t meters on full.

CSF

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Martinez and Rodgers at job interviews over the coming months should be fun for interview panels at clubs I just hope the have there bullsh1t meters on full.

I just don't get how these 2 get discussed in the same circumstances.

Rodgers 2nd place in the Premier League, so close to actually winning it. Has taken a team to the Premier League. Martinez in 8 seasons in the Premier League (3 of them with Everton) has only once finished better than Rodger's worst season in the Premier League.

I don't get it like? Rodgers is a joke because Liverpool finished 6th in the league? Mad sh*t.

Jayop

wally79 wrote: »

Hopefully LVG will lead you to FA cup glory and save his job

What did I ever do to you?

Minderbinder

As someone who doesn't follow the dutch league what are the main qualities De Boer would bring to Everton? It would be a shot in the dark, no?

8-10

Minderbinder wrote: »

As someone who doesn't follow the dutch league what are the main qualities De Boer would bring to Everton? It would be a shot in the dark, no?

Main quality will be some of the young Ajax players he'd be likely to bring with him. Excellent coach and himself and Bergkamp have done great things at the club over the past 5 years. He's strict but backs his own philosophy and has been very successful doing it

Definitely not a shot in the dark. He's a serious first team coach that could easily go on to bigger things - I would have had him on Arsenal's shortlist to replace Wenger

Paully D

I was always baffled by the Martinez hype.

At Wigan, he won the FA Cup which is a cracking achievement and can't be taken away from him, but it doesn't excuse everything. There, he had a win percentage of less than 30%, was ultimately relegated and was outperformed in the league by managers like Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce.

He had a cracking 1st season at Everton, but I always thought the 2nd season would be the real acid test when the full transition from Moyes had taken place and he could really put his own mark on the team. It turned out to be a disaster.

Patrick Boyland in the Guardian said the following:

"[Martinez] will rarely focus on corners or set pieces in training, believing those elements to be unworthy of his brand of technical, passing football".

For me, I think it sums up Martinez really. Too focused on one side of the game and doesn't have the interest, knowledge or nous to change. The same is true of his indirect approach. It's strange because his Wigan side pulled off an escape when he finally changed tactics and moved to a 3-4-3, so I just don't understand why he's so reluctant to change or having a plan B.

Any Premier League side taking him on would be off their rocker IMO.

blinding

Joshua J wrote: »

All Moyes was lacking during his time with us was a Lukaku, someone who would get him 25 goals a season. He was great in the transfer market getting cheap players and I guess it proves how good a coach he was that they improved under him. Utd was a poisoned chalice whoever took over was on a hiding to nothing if they didn't hit the ground running.

Who next for us?. Apparently we've been talking to Mourinhos people, Pellegrini is out of work and Frank De Boer has made it known he wants us. Skys the limit.

Frank De Boer would be the most interesting. No offence to Everton but I'd say Mourinho and his acolytes would consider Everton beneath him(maybe not if he fails again in his next job)

Pellegrini may be interesting as he has a good record at clubs not considered the leading lights.

POKERKING

blinding wrote: »

Frank De Boer would be the most interesting. No offence to Everton but I'd say Mourinho and his acolytes would consider Everton beneath him(maybe not if he fails again in his next job)

Pellegrini may be interesting as he has a good record at clubs not considered the leading lights.

Pelligrini is a fancier but equally as bad version of Martinez...and that's coming from someone who has watched every game he has managed in the last three years.

blinding

POKERKING wrote: »

Pelligrini is a fancier but equally as bad version of Martinez...and that's coming from someone who has watched every game he has managed in the last three years.

Overall definitely disappointing at City but he as a good record at perceived underdogs.

Maybe the fight has gone out of his belly . It looked a bit that way at city but I suppose you would have to be on the inside to know.

CSF

blinding wrote: »

Overall definitely disappointing at City but he as a good record at perceived underdogs.

Maybe the fight has gone out of his belly . It looked a bit that way at city but I suppose you would have to be on the inside to know.

He just didn't seem to get English football. When things were going well he was grand, 4 nil wins all over the shop. But once it was put up to them, he just didn't seem to have the tactical ability to turn it around. His record in the big games this season was nothing short of horrific.

8-10

I don't know why people are discussing other candidates. De Boer leaves Ajax and Martinez is sacked in the same day during a week where de Boer has mentioned being interested in the Everton job if available. It's a banker of a bet

blinding

CSF wrote: »

He just didn't seem to get English football. When things were going well he was grand, 4 nil wins all over the shop. But once it was put up to them, he just didn't seem to have the tactical ability to turn it around. His record in the big games this season was nothing short of horrific.

It will be interesting to see where/if he goes from here. Maybe a decent club in Spain will give him a chance.

thebaz

POKERKING wrote: »

Pelligrini is a fancier but equally as bad version of Martinez...and that's coming from someone who has watched every game he has managed in the last three years.

I'd say Pelligrini is worse - for all the money spent , last weeks limp display was truly shocking , you would get much more commitment up at the Phoenix park for a friendly , wouldn't want Pellegrini anywhere near Goodison

FatherTed

thebaz wrote: »

I'd say Pelligrini is worse - for all the money spent , last weeks limp display was truly shocking , you would get much more commitment up at the Phoenix park for a friendly , wouldn't want Pellegrini anywhere near Goodison

But Pellegrini did win the Prem and the LC twice...

CSF

FatherTed wrote: »

But Pellegrini did win the Prem and the LC twice...

With that budget that is a pretty terrible trophy haul in 3 years.

titan18

It'll most likely be De Boer, but I think they should go for Pellegrini. I'd also like to see Villa Boas get another chance in England as I think he's a good manager, or maybe Eddie Howe, but might be too soon for him to step up

thebaz

CSF wrote: »

With that budget that is a pretty terrible trophy haul in 3 years.

agree, any half decent coach with all that talent could win the league cup - the half hearted display last week , from such a bunch of talented & over paid footballers was truly shocking

Paully D

Pellegrini is 100 times the manager Martinez is. It's not even up for debate.

We're talking about a man who finished 3rd, 7th, 5th and 2nd while continually reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League (including a SF) at Villarreal. Broke Madrid's record points total in La Liga. Finished 4th and 6th with Malaga along with reaching the Champions League QF and won the Premier League with City along with reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League.

How can anyone be surprised at the team's, or indeed perhaps Pellegrini's, lack of commitment considering the club announced in February that Guardiola was taking over at the end of the season? I doubt too many posters on here could stay motivated if their employer told them that they were getting replaced by someone they think is better in 3 months time regardless of what you do between now and then. City were 2nd in the league, had lost one game in 9 and were just 3 points off Leicester the day before they made the announcement. They then lost 3 on the spin and have only won 5 of 13 since then. It's not a coincidence.

Minderbinder

Harry Redknapp is due a return.

thebaz

Paully D wrote: »

Pellegrini is 100 times the manager Martinez is. It's not even up for debate.

sure he is a better manager than Martinez , but his record at Man City is at best average , given resources - say again , last weeks non performance against ReAl was a disgrace , they are over payed professionals after all . I certainly don't want him at Goodison

Dirty Dingus McGee

Pellegrini is a good manager but I think he gets too much praise simply because he seems to be a nice fella.City have been terrible in the last 2 league campaigns and I think the Guardiola announcement gets him off the hook a little as regardless of the announcement they should have been doing a whole lot better, it wasn't the results that reflected badly on him but the manner of City's performances and also he seemed to have trouble getting them to defend properly during his spell which is the exact same problem Martinez had with Everton.


However he has had impressive results when he's managed mid ranking teams so he might not be a bad option for Everton.

JoeA3

Paully D wrote: »

Pellegrini is 100 times the manager Martinez is. It's not even up for debate.

We're talking about a man who finished 3rd, 7th, 5th and 2nd while continually reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League (including a SF) at Villarreal. Broke Madrid's record points total in La Liga. Finished 4th and 6th with Malaga along with reaching the Champions League QF and won the Premier League with City along with reaching the semi-finals of the Champions League.

How can anyone be surprised at the team's, or indeed perhaps Pellegrini's, lack of commitment considering the club announced in February that Guardiola was taking over at the end of the season? I doubt too many posters on here could stay motivated if their employer told them that they were getting replaced by someone they think is better in 3 months time regardless of what you do between now and then. City were 2nd in the league, had lost one game in 9 and were just 3 points off Leicester the day before they made the announcement. They then lost 3 on the spin and have only won 5 of 13 since then. It's not a coincidence.

+1.
Remember when Ferguson announced he was retiring in or around 02-03? United went on an absolute stinker of a run from September - January that saw them hover around 10th-12th spot around Christmas. Suddenly Ferguson had a change of heart and in the end they almost pipped Arsenal to the title.

TLDR - The long term commitment (or lack thereof) of the incumbent manager has a huge influence on the results.

eagle eye

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Pellegrini is a good manager but I think he gets too much praise simply because he seems to be a nice fella.City have been terrible in the last 2 league campaigns and I think the Guardiola announcement gets him off the hook a little as regardless of the announcement they should have been doing a whole lot better, it wasn't the results that reflected badly on him but the manner of City's performances and also he seemed to have trouble getting them to defend properly during his spell which is the exact same problem Martinez had with Everton.


However he has had impressive results when he's managed mid ranking teams so he might not be a bad option for Everton.

Pellegrini's career didn't start at City and it won't finish there. He gets credit because he won titles in Chile, Ecuador and Argentina before moving to Spain and turning Villareal into a serious club.
He spent one season at Real Madrid and had the highest ever points total of a team that didn't win the title.
You can't really blame him for what happened at City in the second half of this season. Everything was going pretty nicely there until it was announced that Pep Guardiola was taking over in the summer. That is always going to have an affect on the players and they are less likely to work hard for the current manager when they know he is leaving.

Armchair Andy

Minderbinder wrote: »

Harry Redknapp is due a return.

K-9

A lot of managers you can say well that was a bit harsh, didn't really get a chance, no backing...

Not this one and I quite like him. I think the constantly trying to spin bad performances thing annoys fans. Rodgers was the same. Corporate speak annoys fans!

K-9

CSF wrote: »

I know people would scoff at it because Bruce spent last season at Hull while Martinez was at Everton, but I'd have Bruce higher up the managerial food chain than Martinez. 2 consecutive bottom half finishes with a squad like Everton's is almost unheard of.

Mostly because nobody usually gets as far as the end of the 2nd season but it took ages for Martinez's unearned reputation to start to fade. It actually kind of bugs me when you consider certain managers who've descended into ridicule for less.

Bruce had money to spend at Wigan, Martinez didn't.

I can understand people scoffing at him for Everton, not Wigan, look where they are now, just getting back to the Championship.

Cup win vs. relegation? Bit like 4th vs. a title for Arsenal.

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

Pellegrini's career didn't start at City and it won't finish there. He gets credit because he won titles in Chile, Ecuador and Argentina before moving to Spain and turning Villareal into a serious club.
He spent one season at Real Madrid and had the highest ever points total of a team that didn't win the title.
You can't really blame him for what happened at City in the second half of this season. Everything was going pretty nicely there until it was announced that Pep Guardiola was taking over in the summer. That is always going to have an affect on the players and they are less likely to work hard for the current manager when they know he is leaving.

He's a good manager so he'll have no trouble getting another job and I think he would work well with Everton considering how well he did with Villareal and Malaga which are clubs at a similar level and he got them performing above their usual standard.

In my opinion City's defence hasn't been great throughout his spell (which is the exact same problem Martinez had with Everton) and although he was put in a tough situation with the Guardiola announcement City seemed to completely cave in from that moment which doesn't reflect well on him in my opinion (of course City's squad could just be a complete collection of bad eggs).I think his indulgence of Toure didn't help his cause this season he really should have dropped him completely after his birthday nonsense.

MayoSalmon

Joshua J wrote: »

A fate Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce managed to avoid, Bruce quite comfortably.

Granted but neither men will remembered as achieving anything with Wigan really..maybe Jewell a bit more for getting them promoted to the premiership.

Fact is Martinez is and will always be a Wigan legend for delivering them the FA Cup.

Joshua J

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Granted but neither men will remembered as achieving anything with Wigan really..maybe Jewell a bit more for getting them promoted to the premiership.

Fact is Martinez is and will always be a Wigan legend for delivering them the FA Cup.

I guess Alex McLeish is a Birmingham legend too then. I don't know many Wigan fans but I know if my club had the choice of FA cup and relegation or premiership survival, you can put the cup where the sun don't shine. His Wigan team were terrible, conceded goals for fun while Bobby talked about how Bramble should be playing for England. He jammed a cup win and got a job above his station on the back of it. He destroyed Wigan and he's almost destroyed us, he's very far for a legend imo.

MayoSalmon

Joshua J wrote: »

I guess Alex McLeish is a Birmingham legend too then. I don't know many Wigan fans but I know if my club had the choice of FA cup and relegation or premiership survival, you can put the cup where the sun don't shine. His Wigan team were terrible, conceded goals for fun while Bobby talked about how Bramble should be playing for England. He jammed a cup win and got a job above his station on the back of it. He destroyed Wigan and he's almost destroyed us, he's very far for a legend imo.

Did McLeish win the FA Cup?? Don't recall that.

I would take FA silverware over Premiership survival myself...

Joshua J

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Did McLeish win the FA Cup?? Don't recall that.

I would take FA silverware over Premiership survival myself...

McLeish won the league cup 2011 and relegated Birmingham same year. Cup over prem?. Seriously?. I don't know bud.

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

Everton are a much bigger club historically and in terms of fanbase, they have a new rich owner who has promised to spend money, and their problems this season are almost entirely down to lousy management - they have a decent squad with a mix of experienced pros and promising youngsters. I think it would be a step up for Koeman.

Koeman top of their list apparently (but he has the same agent as DeBoer - awkward).

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/12/everton-ronald-koeman-roberto-martinez-goodison-park-

MayoSalmon

Joshua J wrote: »

McLeish won the league cup 2011 and relegated Birmingham same year. Cup over prem?. Seriously?. I don't know bud.

Ah the league cup is the least respected competition in England!!

There's not even an equivalent in other top leagues in Europe and in fact it probably should be scrapped.

rob316

Koeman would be a real coup, his team is picked apart for the last couple of seasons and he still manages to finish in or around the top 6. Top manager and plays great attacking football.

TheDoc

K-9 wrote: »

A lot of managers you can say well that was a bit harsh, didn't really get a chance, no backing...

Not this one and I quite like him. I think the constantly trying to spin bad performances thing annoys fans. Rodgers was the same. Corporate speak annoys fans!

To be honest I'd expect their press sec or PR liaison to also follow him out the door.

How the **** no one took him for a serious sit down, and told him to calm down was incredible.

F365 have had a meal with his sacking, rolling out the quotes. It's entirely of his own making. He got carried away with himself labelling every player world class and a phenomenon. total mismanagement of expectations. I'm not so confident as others in classifying the ability of Barkley and Stones among others in that team.

bucketybuck

Joshua J wrote: »

but I know if my club had the choice of FA cup and relegation or premiership survival, you can put the cup where the sun don't shine.

What a strange mindset.

I know if I supported a smaller club, I would infinitely rather have the glory of actually winning a damn competition instead of the drab existence of simply existing as a non-entity in the Premier league.

Joshua J

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Ah the league cup is the least respected competition in England!!

There's not even an equivalent in other top leagues in Europe and in fact it probably should be scrapped.

It's a pot and a day out at Wembley, same difference. Should ask the Newcastle fans on here if they'd have the FA Cup or stay in the Premiership.

K-9

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest I'd expect their press sec or PR liaison to also follow him out the door.

How the **** no one took him for a serious sit down, and told him to calm down was incredible.

F365 have had a meal with his sacking, rolling out the quotes. It's entirely of his own making. He got carried away with himself labelling every player world class and a phenomenon. total mismanagement of expectations. I'm not so confident as others in classifying the ability of Barkley and Stones among others in that team.

Off the ball had a good podcast about it last night, think it was Tony Barrett, the praise for players actually started to jar with them in the end, the feeling was players weren't getting challenged and probably worse for McCarthy who was at Wigan as well.

Pelligrini would be too old. The De Boer talk is coming more from his side than the club. Koeman might see it as a sideways move, sorry Everton fans! Emery from Seville was a good shout he mentioned.

Joshua J

bucketybuck wrote: »

What a strange mindset.

I know if I supported a smaller club, I would infinitely rather have the glory of actually winning a damn competition instead of the drab existence of simply existing as a non-entity in the Premier league.

Jesus maybe I do because I cannot fathom ANY supporter rathering an FA Cup to premiership survival. It's bonkers to me but if thats the prevailing attitude so be it I think it's nuts.

MayoSalmon

Joshua J wrote: »

It's a pot and a day out at Wembley, same difference. Should ask the Newcastle fans on here if they'd have the FA Cup or stay in the Premiership.

You could say the exact same of the Aston Villa fans.

I'm sure they would of rather won the FA Cup against Arsenal last season than that or this years premier league survival no?!