UK home secretary Rudd says she will ‘flush out’ employers that don’t hire locally

Grayson

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't personally agree with the policy, but I'm interested to see somebody explain exactly why it's supposedly so morally outrageous. It's no different to asking people to buy local goods and support local businesses over imports.

As I say, I don't agree with it myself but I'm not "shocked", "outraged", or "triggered" the way so many on social media and in the newspaper columns seem to be - what's so appallingly unethical or immoral about a country's leader wanting her country's jobs not to be outsourced?

These's a difference between people and goods.

AnGaelach

VinLieger wrote:

To impress the people who voted for brexit, they need to keep the blame for all their problems focused externally to distract the voters that their economy is about to come down around their ears

Okay, well that's wrong.

http //www telegraph co uk/business/2016/10/04/imf-rows-back-on-brexit-warnings-as-uk-poised-to-become-fastest/

The Fund expects the UK economy to grow by 1.8pc in 2016. This is slightly higher than its forecast of 1.7pc in July, and puts the country on course to be the fastest growing G7 economy this year.

If you're going to complain about Brexiteers fearmongering about migrants, don't then fearmonger about their economy.

Water John

There is also a big diff between asking and compiling lists.
During the War of Ind, 100 years ago, we had to list who was sleeping in the house each night on the back of the door.
From all the pogroms etc people know what compiling lists means.

Geuze

the_syco wrote: »

Do they all have 10 years experience, degree, or a random useful foreign language?

Also, how sure that they are not Irish?

The Turkish barbers openly state that they are Turkish.

Now, doctors we are short of, so we import non-EU doctors, okay. It's not the best idea, but we have to do it.

Call-centre staff with non-EU languages, okay, I see the reason there.

But barbers and catering staff - why are we importing non-EU workers?

AnGaelach

Geuze wrote:

Now, doctors we are short of, so we import non-EU doctors, okay. It's not the best idea, but we have to do it.

http //www thejournal ie/medical-students-emigrating-1987638-Mar2015/

More than 2,000 medical students across six schools in Ireland were included in the study which was led by researchers in NUI Galway. Career opportunities, working conditions and lifestyle were the three main reasons cited for possible migration.

More than one third of the students in the study said they definitely plan to leave with a further 53% contemplating it.

“Because of this outflow of human capital, we are having to go to huge efforts to attract doctors from other countries, including developing nations,” commented Dr Diarmuid O’Donovan, senior lecturer in social preventative medicine at NUIG. “Not only is this a problem for Irish recruitment, but we need to be mindful of WHO guidelines on international recruitment and taking skilled personnel away from countries that have medical staff shortage.”

If the Government had any bollocks about it, they could tackle the HSE's bloated administration sector and streamline it. Use the money saved to subsidise Irish students and provide them with reasonable employment opportunities and pay, not this "take turns sleeping in the hospital" nonsense.

The fear of a lack of doctors in the NHS was a fear during the Brexit campaign, yet they've announced they are planning a 25% increase in the number of native doctors they will train.

http //www bbc com/news/health-37546360

The government's plan will see an expansion in training places from 6,000 to 7,500 a year.

This lazy "sure fúck it, we'll just hire someone else to do it for us" nonsense is not going to solve the colossal piece of cac that is the HSE.

VinLieger

AnGaelach wrote: »

Okay, well that's wrong.

http //www telegraph co uk/business/2016/10/04/imf-rows-back-on-brexit-warnings-as-uk-poised-to-become-fastest/



If you're going to complain about Brexiteers fearmongering about migrants, don't then fearmonger about their economy.

So their economy didnt go from 5th to 6th strongest during Therasa May's speech? Right so....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/05/theresa-may-bragged-about-britain-being-worlds-5th-largest-economy-after-her-speech-it-dropped-to-6th/

CMOTDibbler

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't personally agree with the policy, but I'm interested to see somebody explain exactly why it's supposedly so morally outrageous. It's no different to asking people to buy local goods and support local businesses over imports.

It would be the same if the people buying 'foreign' goods were put on a list to 'name and shame' them.

It would also be the same if the Home Secretary had asked firms to prioritise the hiring of local rather than foreign labour. It would even be useful if firms were asked to report on the number of local applicants to jobs advertised and to quantify the reasons for their success or failure.

At least that kind of information could give government the information needed to rectify the situation through upskilling initiatives or systems to help people relocate to areas of need.

osarusan

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It would be the same if the people buying 'foreign' goods were put on a list to 'name and shame' them.

CMOTDibbler's shopping this week:

56% Irish products
44% Non-Irish prioducts

This represents a 3% increase in non-Irish purchases since last month.

Non-Irish products purchased included:

• Italian pasta
• British biscuits
• Belgian beer
• Spanish Garlic
• French cheese

What's wrong with Irish cheese CMOTDibbler? Please buy local. This is a nudge towards a better direction.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Geuze wrote: »

The Turkish barbers openly state that they are Turkish.

Now, doctors we are short of, so we import non-EU doctors, okay. It's not the best idea, but we have to do it.

Call-centre staff with non-EU languages, okay, I see the reason there.

But barbers and catering staff - why are we importing non-EU workers?

Because native workers do not want to do those jobs. Or more pertinately, some native workers consider those jobs to be below the social level that they aspire to be in.

JJEire

"Because native workers do not want to do those jobs. Or more pertinately, some native workers consider those jobs to be below the social level that they aspire to be in."

On what basis do you say this? There will be queues out the door of Argus, Easons etc of people looking for minimum wage seasonal work. Huge numbers will Irish.

steddyeddy

I bet twelve British candidates to the job in the UK. I bloody earned my right to work here.

steddyeddy

osarusan wrote: »

CMOTDibbler's shopping this week:

56% Irish products
44% Non-Irish prioducts

This represents a 3% increase in non-Irish purchases since last month.

Non-Irish products purchased included:

• Italian pasta
• British biscuits
• Belgian beer
• Spanish Garlic
• French cheese

What's wrong with Irish cheese CMOTDibbler? Please buy local. This is a nudge towards a better direction.

CMOT you should be f-ing ashamed of yourself!!!!

CMOTDibbler

JJEire wrote: »

On what basis do you say this? There will be queues out the door of Argus, Easons etc of people looking for minimum wage seasonal work. Huge numbers will Irish.

Barbering and hairdressing generally require an apprenticeship. It's very low paid and has variable hours. It's a job that you can clearly rock up to, but not many want to because of the initial low pay and short hours.

Minimum pay, seasonal work is hardly that desirable either.

CMOTDibbler

steddyeddy wrote: »

CMOT you should be f-ing ashamed of yourself!!!!

You can't make me buy Irish Gorgonzola

AnGaelach

VinLieger wrote:

So their economy didnt go from 5th to 6th strongest during Therasa May's speech? Right so....

No, actually, it didn't. The value of their economy dropped because the markets saw sterling drop - their economy itself is perfectly fine they didn't just suddenly stop producing stuff. That's the problem with exchange rate mechanisms, it gives a false idea to people who don't understand economics.

CMOTDibbler

AnGaelach wrote: »

No, actually, it didn't. The value of their economy dropped because the markets saw sterling drop - their economy itself is perfectly fine they didn't just suddenly stop producing stuff. That's the problem with exchange rate mechanisms, it gives a false idea to people who don't understand economics.

Chicken and egg though, isn't it?

The value of sterling dropped because observers believe that a hard Brexit is going to damage the UK economy.

It's not so much the value as the sentiment behind it.

Markets are fickle as hell, but sterling has fallen steadily to a point now where it's lost 25% of its value.

AnGaelach

CMOTDibbler wrote:

Chicken and egg though, isn't it?

The value of sterling dropped because observers believe that a hard Brexit is going to damage the UK economy.

It's not so much the value as the sentiment behind it.

Markets are fickle as hell, but sterling has fallen steadily to a point now where it's lost 25% of its value.

The fundamentals of their economy will remain largely unchanged. Any loss to the value of their currency will see a pick up in the value of their exports. When we unpegged the punt from the pound back in the day, people said it would be a catastrophe, but it was what allowed us to eventually begin exporting more than just heads of cattle.

Everything rises and everything falls in the markets. Saying it's doomed because it's at its lowest is like saying oil was a good thing to invest in because it was at $110 a barrel a while ago. If you'd invested in oil, you'd be fairly well fecked by now.

hatrickpatrick

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

It would be the same if the people buying 'foreign' goods were put on a list to 'name and shame' them.

It would be more like naming and shaming the retailers who choose to import foreign goods over Irish ones.

It would also be the same if the Home Secretary had asked firms to prioritise the hiring of local rather than foreign labour. It would even be useful if firms were asked to report on the number of local applicants to jobs advertised and to quantify the reasons for their success or failure.

At least that kind of information could give government the information needed to rectify the situation through upskilling initiatives or systems to help people relocate to areas of need.

None of that would solve the perceived issue of people from smaller economies being willing to work the same hours for less pay, which is widely regarded as the main reason for outsourcing in the first place.

CMOTDibbler

AnGaelach wrote: »

The fundamentals of their economy will remain largely unchanged. Any loss to the value of their currency will see a pick up in the value of their exports. When we unpegged the punt from the pound back in the day, people said it would be a catastrophe, but it was what allowed us to eventually begin exporting more than just heads of cattle.

Everything rises and everything falls in the markets. Saying it's doomed because it's at its lowest is like saying oil was a good thing to invest in because it was at $110 a barrel a while ago. If you'd invested in oil, you'd be fairly well fecked by now.

There's a significant difference between severing a monetary union and severing a trading partnership. Granted we don't know what form any future trading partnership the UK may agree with the EU and the wider world, but the market sentiment that has depressed the value of sterling is clearly saying that it doesn't believe it's going to be a better one.

And yes, I do appreciate that the sentiment so expressed is a best guess and may not bear out at all.

CMOTDibbler

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

None of that would solve the perceived issue of people from smaller economies being willing to work the same hours for less pay, which is widely regarded as the main reason for outsourcing in the first place.

Perceived issues are always the hardest to deal with.

The best way is always to deal in facts and dispel the myths. The Home Secretary's initiative seems, on the face of it, to do the opposite.

A Little Pony

karma_ wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Biggest example I have seen of fascism in recent times was remain voters moaning about wanting another referendum and could not accept the result.

The absolute level of sheer stupidity and ignorance in this post is simply astounding.

Let's see... The Tories give a speech about 'ousting foreigners' which in many ways is reminiscent on how the Nazis scapegoated Jews in the 1930's yet the closest thing to fascism you have observed is some pro-EU lot seeking a democratic vote? I mean... what f cking planet do you live on?

Actually many didn't even want a vote, they just said ignore it. Being the true fascists they are. Hate Parliamentary democracy and want authoritarian government.

A Little Pony

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with giving a preference to native born citizens of a country when a job offer comes up provided that person is suitable for the position.

When Britain does eventually leave I can see Ireland being swamped with immigrants, and I'm not even including the "refugees" we're being forced to take in as well.

And taking jobs off Irish people. The globalists want to destroy the heritages of the native citizens.

biko

Funny how the same people that oppose local jobs for local people are all for "shop local / support local businesses".

JJEire

"I bet twelve British candidates to the job in the UK. I bloody earned my right to work here."

It's up to the British people if you have the right to settle in their country though. Keep pushing large scale immigration on an unwilling population and see what happens. Well, you've already seen the start. Brexit. If the Brits leave the EU and net immigration stays at around 300k per year, what do you think will happen next?

This could be said Europe wide.

Buford T. Justice XIX

biko wrote: »

Funny how the same people that oppose local jobs for local people are all for "shop local / support local businesses".

There seems to be a disconnect between supporting local workers in jobs and supporting local products produced by those workers. Both support the locality but you will rarely see any protests in support of local products.

steddyeddy

Products VS people though.

topper75

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

There's a significant difference between severing a monetary union and severing a trading partnership.

Sever would be insane. I think they intend to just re-negotiate, no?!

The UK will do really well in the medium term. Why? Their offerings are now suddenly more competitive in the international shop window and the cost of money for UK business people (to expand and produce more at those competitive prices) is awfully cheap in historic terms.

Add to this mix some swapping out of native dole-queuers, and you'll hear some good old fashioned Jingo from the exchequer old chap! So get the foam ear plugs in now. You should get British-made ones cheap enough on amazon.co.uk.

Buford T. Justice XIX

steddyeddy wrote: »

Products VS people though.

Both employ locally. If it's just retail that's being protected, the rest of the productive economy won't be long relocating to areas with suitably profitable labour costs i.e. somewhere foreign and export the products back again for sale in the protected retail market. And supporting jobs in a foreign country, to boot.

CMOTDibbler

topper75 wrote: »

Sever would be insane. I think they intend to just re-negotiate, no?!

It's been said on the Brexit thread that the view based on May's statements is that it's a hard line on immigration. That would seem to preclude a return to the status quo ante in terms of trade barriers.

topper75 wrote: »

The UK will do really well in the medium term. Why? Their offerings are now suddenly more competitive in the international shop window and the cost of money for UK business people (to expand and produce more at those competitive prices) is awfully cheap in historic terms.

There are two sides to that coin. The UK is a net importer of goods, so the currency devaluation hurts more than it helps.

topper75 wrote: »

Add to this mix some swapping out of native dole-queuers, and you'll hear some good old fashioned Jingo from the exchequer old chap! So get the foam ear plugs in now. You should get British-made ones cheap enough on amazon.co.uk.

Not sure what you're saying here, but you seem to be implying an increase in employment. I'm not sure that's on the cards.

the_syco

JJEire wrote: »

On what basis do you say this? There will be queues out the door of Argus, Easons etc of people looking for minimum wage seasonal work. Huge numbers will Irish.

I'd wonder how many will be students that can work the seasonal hours, as they'll be on holidays?

As opposed to the foreigners who work in the fast food places, as they'll come in on time and work for the low pay.