'Dublin life is unsustainable' - meet the professionals who left for the Mid-West....

jjjd

Augeo wrote: »

Meet the professionals not from Dublin who left for the mid west........... "I commuted from my home town of Limerick to Dublin for almost three years on a weekly basis, travelling up early Monday mornings and back late Friday nights"


............

"Both my fiancé and I are originally from Kerry and were working in Dublin for eight years when we decided to leave Dublin to be closer to our families"

..........

"Daniel Smith, Professional Services Manager at Action Point moved back to Limerick after spending time in Australia during the recession in Ireland."

The heading isn't at all representative of the detail, people from area move back after years away, shocker :rolleyes:


I'm from Cork and work in Dublin at the moment. Plenty of work in Limerick in my game, I wouldn't consider moving there at all tbh unless I hooked up with a Limerick lady and was essentially mandated to

Just out of curiosity, could you give the reasons why you wouldn't consider moving to the Midwest (apart from the lazy stereotypes please)? How well do you know the region that you could make a sweeping statement like that?

testaccount123

jjjd wrote: »

It just needs good marketing by the government and the IDA.

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

jjjd

testaccount123 wrote: »

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

Cheaper housing, cheaper childcare, less traffic congestion, shorter commutes and a better work-life balance are a good start to have over Dublin though. A good marketing campaign can bring all these things together that could make a young educated workforce want to live in the region.

panda100

I love living in Limerick for all the reasons outlined in the article and on this thread. I am renting a lovely apartment in the heart of the city something I could never afford in Dublin. I have a 5 minute walk to work. My sister had a new baby yesterday and I was able to walk to the maternity hospital in 10 minutes after work. Lots of great amenities close by and close enough to Dublin and Cork for shopping and night outs.

One issue I find with living in Limerick is I find it very clique-ish both professionally and personally. I have wanted to work for the company I currently work with as soon as I graduated. I waited three years doing other jobs in Dublin until a position became available. I went for it and got it. I say they were sick of me talking about how much I want to move back to Limerick so I was lucky to be offered a position down here with them about 5 years ago. This role in Limerick wasn't publicly advertised.
About a year ago I realised that there really wasn't any room for me to grow or develop anymore so i went for a new job with a new company in Dublin which I got. About two months after that I got a phone call from a contact in Limerick offering me a new role (wasn't publicly advertised), so back down I came. Since I've moved here none of our companies roles in Limerick have been advertised. I work in the health/social care/social justice sector and many of the good positions available are advertised by word of mouth or who you know.

When I worked in Dublin I was surrounded by hugely talented and passionate people who deserved the positions they were in. I can't say I find the same for Limerick and am often left scratching my head as to how certain individuals have got so far in their careers as they have.

John_Mc

mishkashubaly wrote: »

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

The M20 motorway would be connecting Cork, Limerick and Galway all together by motorway. It might be "in the back arse of nowhere" according to those in the pale but it will serve far far more people than the population of Tallaght.

Typical Dubliner attitude on display :rolleyes:

zetalambda

mishkashubaly wrote: »

It is for it's population. The Dart and Luas serve small catchment areas, for a start. All approaches to the city are gridlocked morning and evening, M50 is at capacity, busses to outer suburbs (where luas/dart don't serve) frequently pass people at stops in the suburbs full in the mornings and depart the city terminus full in the evenings and take an age due to said traffic and zero bus priority infrastructure.

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Dublin doesn't need a metro...it's the smallest capital city in Europe

seachto7

mishkashubaly wrote: »

It is for it's population. The Dart and Luas serve small catchment areas, for a start. All approaches to the city are gridlocked morning and evening, M50 is at capacity, busses to outer suburbs (where luas/dart don't serve) frequently pass people at stops in the suburbs full in the mornings and depart the city terminus full in the evenings and take an age due to said traffic and zero bus priority infrastructure.

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Don't be complaining about the roads when you're on your weekend break to "the back arse of nowhere"

Balf

testaccount123 wrote: »

It doesnt just need good marketing, a city needs the things which attracts young educated workforces to move there. Dublin struggles with this issue, nevermind Limerick.

I think this is a more insightful comment. The regional cities need to develop - and have the capacity to develop.

I think the OP article actually frames the issue in a very negative light - starting with this strange proposition that life in Dublin must be so awful that anything must be better.

John_Mc wrote: »

The M20 motorway would be connecting Cork, Limerick and Galway all together by motorway.

I don't see what connecting the regional cities will achieve, without some kind of coherent idea of how it contributes to the cities' development.

At worst, the M20 could simply encourage the kind of sprawl that has undermined all the cities, and the regional cities in particular. The starting point is testaccount123's, which is developing a positive urban life within the city.

The Specialist

mishkashubaly wrote: »

Metro/underground was needed a decade ago, never-mind now, but will never be funded unless Dublin gets autonomy on how to spend money it generates. Gov will spunk money on more motorways in the back arse of nowhere no problem though.

Limerick's population is less than Tallaght ffs, ye are a city in name only.

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

The Specialist

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

LOL.

L.T.P.

panda100 wrote: »

I love living in Limerick for all the reasons outlined in the article and on this thread. I am renting a lovely apartment in the heart of the city something I could never afford in Dublin. I have a 5 minute walk to work. My sister had a new baby yesterday and I was able to walk to the maternity hospital in 10 minutes after work. Lots of great amenities close by and close enough to Dublin and Cork for shopping and night outs.

One issue I find with living in Limerick is I find it very clique-ish both professionally and personally. I have wanted to work for the company I currently work with as soon as I graduated. I waited three years doing other jobs in Dublin until a position became available. I went for it and got it. I say they were sick of me talking about how much I want to move back to Limerick so I was lucky to be offered a position down here with them about 5 years ago. This role in Limerick wasn't publicly advertised.
About a year ago I realised that there really wasn't any room for me to grow or develop anymore so i went for a new job with a new company in Dublin which I got. About two months after that I got a phone call from a contact in Limerick offering me a new role (wasn't publicly advertised), so back down I came. Since I've moved here none of our companies roles in Limerick have been advertised. I work in the health/social care/social justice sector and many of the good positions available are advertised by word of mouth or who you know.

When I worked in Dublin I was surrounded by hugely talented and passionate people who deserved the positions they were in. I can't say I find the same for Limerick and am often left scratching my head as to how certain individuals have got so far in their careers as they have.

Often they have gotten these positions solely based on who they know. Drives me mad :mad::mad::mad::mad:

testaccount123

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

Dublin would be better off if it didn't have to fund the regions...

Can someone less angry explain what a motorway between Cork and Limerick is supposed to be achieving? A link to Shannon airport is it?

I was in Limerick with work last week, it was the first time I'd really ever been. The city was much nicer than I expected although everything (bar the pretty decent pub scene) seemed to just close at 6pm. I would say the planning focus should be on developing the city as an urban hub to attract people. Not everyone is a 30 something suburbanite with 2.4 kids, 2 cars and no interests outside a visit to the local park. People are not going to be attracted to Limerick because of cheap child care and short commutes if they already live in a city centre and have no children.

seachto7

You think that jobs in Dublin aren't down to "who you know" either? Ok, not all, but to think it doesn't go on anywhere else in Ireland is silly...

John_Mc

testaccount123 wrote: »

Dublin would be better off if it didn't have to fund the regions...

Can someone less angry explain what a motorway between Cork and Limerick is supposed to be achieving? A link to Shannon airport is it?

http://www.limerickchamber.ie/red-c-survey-m20-between-limerick-and-cork-will-enhance-economic-linkages-safety-and-reduce-congestion/

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Businesses-tell-of-economic-necessity-behind-building-M20-to-Limerick-509681c4-1953-4a91-9bf7-24d925e667b9-ds

jjjd

jjjd wrote: »

[/B]
Just out of curiosity, could you give the reasons why you wouldn't consider moving to the Midwest (apart from the lazy stereotypes please)? How well do you know the region that you could make a sweeping statement like that?

I'm sorry? What did I say to bring that comment about?

Anyway, I was a rep years ago. Covering Munster, had 5 or 6 key accounts in Limerick. Spent quite a bit of my week there.
Wages are quite frankly brutal compared to Cork or Dublin, that's the primary reason. Secondary reason would be the actual city is tiny and much of it is rundown.

How is saying "I wouldn't consider moving there" a sweeping statement? Would you move to Dublin? Cork? Belfast? If no do you think the natives would get offended? NOPE

testaccount123

In order to facilitate growth across Munster and the wider Atlantic Corridor, the cities of Cork and Limerick must be connected with a motorway fit for purpose to meet increasing traffic volumes from transport heavy industries along the M20 corridor and to enable new economic expansion

This is fairly confusing. What are these transport heavy industries they are looking to encourage?

Surely the better plan is to build density within the cities, have people live and work in them, use public transport, cycling and walking within them, encouraging a lively city with plenty of amenities for all. After which you can start encourage more of your Ubers and other knowledge economy based businesses in.

Instead the plan appears to be to actively pursue the kind of sprawl that causes so many issues for Dublin.

ifElseThen

They could decentralise by offering tax incentives for businesses to encourage remote working where applicable.

If commuters could could do 2 days a week from home it would make their lives easier and the three day commute a bit more tolerable.

Rural towns might decline less, takes the pressure of Dublin housing, office space etc.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Dublin life is not unsustainable at all, but it is higher maintainence. I left limerick 15 years ago because there were no jobs. Northern Trust have changed that for me potentially but I wouldnt consider moving back for a second, I love it in Dublin and can afford it. My Mrs would probably disagree on some counts, as its the difference between her having to work or be able to stay home with the kids.

keane2097

testaccount123 wrote: »

This is fairly confusing. What are these transport heavy industries they are looking to encourage?

Surely the better plan is to build density within the cities, have people live and work in them, use public transport, cycling and walking within them, encouraging a lively city with plenty of amenities for all. After which you can start encourage more of your Ubers and other knowledge economy based businesses in.

Instead the plan appears to be to actively pursue the kind of sprawl that causes so many issues for Dublin.

Limerick is in the midst of redeveloping the city centre already. Several large scale developments in planning and post-planning stages, city centre being redeveloped to be more amenable to pedestrians, cyclists and PT etc.

As for the M20, you can read the detailed socio-economic impact scheme here:

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf

Some highlights:

Key Findings
The assessment highlights the following key benefits that would arise from completion of the M20 Cork to Limerick Motorway scheme:

> The current N20 is under significant capacity constraints due to the recent growth in traffic volumes. Several locations on the current N20 have seen traffic levels at over 120% of capacity in 2017.

> Development of the M20 would provide a Blarney to Patrickswell journey time of approximately 47 minutes.

> The M20 scheme would prevent approximately 118 accidents per annum, which could result in an annual monetary saving of €12.4 million.

> These transport benefits would also underpin the competitiveness of the South-West and Mid-West Regions, through enhancing internal and external connectivity, and improving productivity.

> The M20 would facilitate the development of a Cork-Limerick ‘twin-city’ region, which would provide a complement to Dublin in the context of the National Planning Framework, and the wider Mid-West and SouthWest
Regions (including Kerry) and the Atlantic Corridor.

> The M20 scheme would provide enhanced labour market connectivity for the 273,000 people in the wider catchment’s labour force. The motorway would increase the labour force within a 45-minute commute of
major employment centres by an estimated 23% to 243,000 people.

> The M20’s role in enhancing the environment for FDI and indigenous investment has the potential to support an estimated additional 4,000-5,400 direct jobs in the region. In gross terms excluding displacement impacts, these additional direct jobs could provide an annual gross exchequer impact of up to €128 million, depending on the nature of investment attracted.

> The M20 would deliver improved capacity to serve the external trading and connectivity requirements of businesses and tourism in the South-West Region, including through expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports, and the major ports of Cork and Shannon Foynes.

> The scheme would increase the accessibility of the wider South-West and Mid-West Regions for overseas and domestic tourism visitors.

> The M20 would deliver social and community benefits, including reduced stress and improved quality of life for commuters, and enhancing employment opportunities for residents in more remote locations.

Balf

keane2097 wrote: »

Limerick is in the midst of redeveloping the city centre already. Several large scale developments in planning and post-planning stages, city centre being redeveloped to be more amenable to pedestrians, cyclists and PT etc.

As for the M20, you can read the detailed socio-economic impact scheme here:

https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf

Some highlights:

I know the M20 has become almost a symbolic project, so it's hard to look at it dispassionately (particularly as the N20 just isn't a good road.)

However, I still find that CBA reads more like an advocacy case than an analysis. For instance, when they say "expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports", what does that actually mean? Presumably, it would make Cork Airport more accessible to people who use Shannon and Shannon Airport more accessible to people who use Cork. There might be some hope, in that, of Shannon attracting some Cork-based business from Dublin.

But I can't really see anything in it for Cork Airport - which I'm not saying is a problem. Just if they mean that the road might create a stronger airport in Shannon, at the expense of Cork Airport but to the benefit of both the MidWest and the South, I'd prefer they said that more plainly.

However, the main thrust of the case seems to be the "spreading out" kind of vision, which hasn't served the country well. "Spreading out" favours Dublin - and partly explains why Galway Airport no longer has scheduled services.

seachto7

ifElseThen wrote: »

They could decentralise by offering tax incentives for businesses to encourage remote working where applicable.

If commuters could could do 2 days a week from home it would make their lives easier and the three day commute a bit more tolerable.

Rural towns might decline less, takes the pressure of Dublin housing, office space etc.

They'd have to stay somewhere in Dublin for the rest of the week though

keane2097

Balf wrote: »

I know the M20 has become almost a symbolic project, so it's hard to look at it dispassionately (particularly as the N20 just isn't a good road.)

However, I still find that CBA reads more like an advocacy case than an analysis. For instance, when they say "expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports", what does that actually mean? Presumably, it would make Cork Airport more accessible to people who use Shannon and Shannon Airport more accessible to people who use Cork. There might be some hope, in that, of Shannon attracting some Cork-based business from Dublin.

But I can't really see anything in it for Cork Airport - which I'm not saying is a problem. Just if they mean that the road might create a stronger airport in Shannon, at the expense of Cork Airport but to the benefit of both the MidWest and the South, I'd prefer they said that more plainly.

However, the main thrust of the case seems to be the "spreading out" kind of vision, which hasn't served the country well. "Spreading out" favours Dublin - and partly explains why Galway Airport no longer has scheduled services.

Honestly I've no particular skin in the game so won't be defending the claims, just providing them as I knew where they could be found.

You might want to take your points to the Infrastructure > Roads forum if you want to have them critiqued:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104100254#post104100254

There seems to be fairly strong advocacy for the project there from people who know a lot more about it than me.

myshirt

What hasn't helped Limerick is the division we had between city and county council, and our two dodgy suburbs: Clare and Tipperary.

Dooradoyle is county? Westbury? Annacotty? Mungret? Ardnacrusha? Caherdavin? Corbally? Meelick?

The real population of Limerick that isn't rural is much bigger than Tallafornia's 100,000. Even just include Ballycummin, Ballysimon, Roxborough, and dare I say parts of Shannon electoral area.

John_Mc

Balf wrote: »

I know the M20 has become almost a symbolic project, so it's hard to look at it dispassionately (particularly as the N20 just isn't a good road.)

However, I still find that CBA reads more like an advocacy case than an analysis. For instance, when they say "expanding the catchment areas of Cork and Shannon Airports", what does that actually mean? Presumably, it would make Cork Airport more accessible to people who use Shannon and Shannon Airport more accessible to people who use Cork. There might be some hope, in that, of Shannon attracting some Cork-based business from Dublin.

But I can't really see anything in it for Cork Airport - which I'm not saying is a problem. Just if they mean that the road might create a stronger airport in Shannon, at the expense of Cork Airport but to the benefit of both the MidWest and the South, I'd prefer they said that more plainly.

However, the main thrust of the case seems to be the "spreading out" kind of vision, which hasn't served the country well. "Spreading out" favours Dublin - and partly explains why Galway Airport no longer has scheduled services.

I recently flew out of Cork on holidays because flight times and costs were better than Dublin. Even though it's only half the distance as it is to Dublin, I'd be very wary of flying out of there again because of the state of the road and it pretty much takes the same time as it does going to Dublin.

Anyway, are you suggesting that we shouldn't have a motorway connecting our 2nd and 3rd cities together, because we should be building better cities? That doesn't make sense - they are not mutually exclusive.

oppenheimer1

The Specialist wrote: »

Metro/Underground can go and ****..the M20 is needed much more than another fancy transport system for Dublin. As for autonomy on how ye spend the money, lets pull every cent that the rest of Ireland generates and see how well ye snobby clowns survive then. Typical dub - full of your own **** and self importance.

You shouldn't advocate that to be honest. Dublin taxes are transferred to the rest of the country.

jackofalltrades

jjjd wrote: »

It just needs good marketing by the government and the IDA. No need to force companies to set up in the area if that's not what they want to do. Just look at what the Wild Atlantic Way had done for tourism in this country. The scenery was always there, it just wasn't marketed in the right way, both domestically and internationally. The very same could be done with the Midwest, a good marketing campaign both here and abroad may make companies choose to locate in the Midwest.

This is already being done though.
There's half empty IDA industrial estates littered around the country.
And yes they have had some success but I doubt there's much improvement that can be made on their current success.
You also have to bear in mind that Dublin in a lot of cases isn't competing with cities/towns outside of Dublin for investment, it's competing against other European cities.

And yes I think the N20 should be upgraded to high quality single carriage way or motorway.
That said Limerick to Galway rail services should be stopped.

ifElseThen

seachto7 wrote: »

They'd have to stay somewhere in Dublin for the rest of the week though

No I'm talking about say a couple who might want to move to a commuter town for the space, cheaper houses etc. But then choose not to because they can't face the commute 5 days a week.

In saying that, the founder of our company lives in Galway. He commutes once a week to Dublin and stays in a room closeby from AirBnB in some elderly person's gaf.

Balf

John_Mc wrote: »

Anyway, are you suggesting that we shouldn't have a motorway connecting our 2nd and 3rd cities together, because we should be building better cities? That doesn't make sense - they are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. I'm more saying its not as important as its made out.

And it can be detrimental to longer term growth, if the motorway is put in when the cities are still weak, particularly if controls on housing along the route is not contained. And we've been famously bad at containing one-off rural housing.

If it was part of a coherent joint plan between the cities, that would be something. But, like I said, the case tiptoes around issues - like which of the two airports would win out. If the motorway changes nothing else about Cork and Limerick, where exactly is the gain? What is it that someone in Cork will be doing differently?

I think this guy sort of points to the issue (albeit in a very limited way)

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/245901/m20-motorway-plan-could-suck-life-from-limerick.html

LEADING local businessman Tadhg Kearney has warned the M20 project could “suck everything” from Limerick in favour of Cork and Galway.

We need a very clear-eyed assessment of this. Even when they mention the road as a basis for freight traffic, what do they mean? Do they envisage Cork-based industries sending freight up the M20 to Foynes, instead of using Cork's port (and vice versa)? What's all that about?

What is it about Cork that will enhance Limerick by virtue of the faster road connectivity? What is it about Limerick that will enhance Cork by virtue of the faster road connectivity? If those two questions don't have well-understood answers, then the project doesn't have a clear purpose. (and I don't mean a vague appeal to their status as the second and third cities)

Cookiemunster

@Balf. As was suggested earlier in the thread, head over to the M20 thread on the Roads forum and you'll find answers to all these questions (along with arguments against).

L.T.P.

myshirt wrote: »

What hasn't helped Limerick is the division we had between city and county council, and our two dodgy suburbs: Clare and Tipperary.

Dooradoyle is county? Westbury? Annacotty? Mungret? Ardnacrusha? Caherdavin? Corbally? Meelick?

The real population of Limerick that isn't rural is much bigger than Tallafornia's 100,000. Even just include Ballycummin, Ballysimon, Roxborough, and dare I say parts of Shannon electoral area.

Most of inhabitants of Ardnacrusha, Parteen, and Westbury would originally be from Limerick, the border definitely needs to be redrawn...