Changes in the GAA - super thread

gormdubhgorm

This is more of a broadcaster and GAA one. Why not have a live table in the corner of the screen when it is the last group game of the AI series?

Common sense?

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751157#Comment_120751157

Since GAA don't use a data provider to pull from something like a live API, they would need their own in house people manually doing it - Which is incredibly messy unless they had a big group of people at it.

Looks easy when Premier League do it on the final day etc., but that's because they have a data provider with literally 5 people assigned to each live match.

Coillte_Bhoy

Did TG 4 not do soemthing like this on last day of NFL? had updated tables etc

I dont think RTE even mentioned the various permutations etc in closing mins of Galway Armagh match, though i may be wrong, was watching in a pub

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755162#Comment_120755162

They didn't mention it once, it was brutal

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755162#Comment_120755162

They had a guy manually updating them iirc, which did lead to mistakes at times

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120688174#Comment_120688174

Some of those rules will be too complicated to referee.

Yes to 13 players.

No to number of players in the attacking half, no to banning the short kickout, no the 3 handpasses in a row.

What you do need to do is to stop the goalkeeper coming out and making it easy to play the mindless possession game across the 45.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720835#Comment_120720835

Do the advantages lie too much with the defence these days?

Yes, we don't have the ping-pong hurling scores in football, but are they really worth it. On the other hand, we rarely have games like the 1996 Leinster Final 0-10 to 0-08. Dublin won an All-Ireland in 1995 by 1-10 to 0-12, that would be low-scoring by today's standards, but that Championship saw Wicklow beat Westmeath by 0-9 to 0-3.

Football now is a lot better than the 1990s.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857127#Comment_120857127

Higher scoring doesn't mean better games.

The problem with the modern game is there is a lack of contest for possession, as defenses retreat and allow teams to have the ball for ages and rarely will a long ball be played into the forwards.More genuine contest for possession means more excitment. The scoring is only part of the excitement.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857127#Comment_120857127

IMHO yes the advantages lie too much with the defense and IMHO I do not think football is better then it was in the 1990's.

PTH2009

Football video game was showcased this week. Nothing can be as shite as the ' Gaelic Games Series' on the PS2 years back

StupidLikeAFox

Fair play to them for giving it a go. The real challenge is getting the AI right for 30 players and a ref on a pitch that makes the game realistic but also a bit chaotic. I see they have done a bit of motion capture which looks fine - but the hard part will be getting things like collisions, tackling, breaking ball to appear realistic

gormdubhgorm

I would scrap the all stars for the championship, they are a farce, political decisions. sympathy votes, positional changes etc. Plus this is a system where Clarke can get an all star for Mayo despite conceding two goals. But an exceptional player like Mulroy for Louth will never get an all star in his lifetime.

They are always heavily weighted towards the final - the finalists get the majority of 12 spots while the runners up get less. Then there might be 3 spots for other counties.

Also the consistent players who are assumed to be good and got ones previously have to have exceptional years to get an all star - Cluxton. James McCarthy, David Clifford etc

I think a much better solution would be an all star team for each division in the league. Then they can all play in other in a round robin abroad somewhere..

dxhound2005

They are selected by journalists, so you can blame them for political decisions, and the sympathy votes. I read that when it started they used to select 115 players, but it is now 45. Limiting it to just 3 for each position, does make it imperfect. Some years there could be more than 3 very good players say at number 11, and no standout players say at number 4. But that is the system, and it has always (without checking) favoured the counties which progressed deep into the Championship.

This year there are 13 football counties represented in the 45, which I read is an unusually high number. Again blame the GAA correspondents on TV, radio, newspapers and other media who do the nominations.

This is not a discussion where "etc" should be used. I you have other headings that you think are wrong, say what they are.

callaway92

Also, when taking forwards into account it’s mostly just scores.

They don’t take any other contributions into account such as chances created or frees won leading to shots etc

It’s completely outdated

dxhound2005

I didn't know this bit until I looked up the criteria for the awards. That it is the players themselves who choose the All Stars. Fair play to so many of the also rans, that they consistently give the accolade to their more succesful brethren.

"In 2011 it was announced that the GAA All Stars Awards, which had been sponsored in recent years by Vodafone, and the GPA Awards would merge under the sponsorship of car manufacturer Opel. The move announced by Christy Cooney saw the achievements of players recognised jointly for the first time in October 2011.

The All Stars team comprises the best player in each position, regardless of club or county affiliation. The composition of the All Star teams are decided on the basis of a shortlist compiled by a selection committee of sports journalists from the national media, while the overall winners are chosen by inter-county players themselves. The award is regarded by players as the highest accolade available to them, due to it being picked by their peers."

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121177426#Comment_121177426

That is one I forgot to say players should be voted for by the public not the journalists. Most GAA fans would give a fair call overall as to who the players should be. Voting could be charged another way to earn money for the GAA or part to charity, or various causes that affect GAA players that no longer play the game etc.

My etc was referring to examples of players.

But I find the all stars in it's current form the 'All-Stars' is a day out for the sake of it. Good players get forgotten about that play for so called weaker counties.

A four team All-Star League 'divisional' teams playing each other would be a great preseason thing instead of the McGrath cup/O'Byrne cup etc. They could have it in a round robin or something. I would watch it anyway.

dxhound2005

I'd prefer the something to the Round Robin. Etc.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180700#Comment_121180700

What do you suggest other than snide remarks? Because the All stars has been a farce for a long time.

A false award in my view.

PTH2009

The All Stars selection committee probably a council of elders

Iecrawfc

The GAA are looking at making the all ireland finals more of an occasion, about time too, there should be a warm up game, think an updated railway cup was suggested, maybe the provinces of the finalists in football and a team of the Munster champ vs team of Leinster(Inc. Antrim and Galway) in hurling. Need to make the 25th anniversary teams be more a part of the occasion, should be at half time in senior game, maybe invite both finalists also.

callaway92

Don’t like absolute nothing exhibition games like the Railway Cup. Surely there’s something else that could be fit in if necessary.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180162#Comment_121180162

Why not have both? Players vote as well as journalists. i think the format of competitions will help just see finalists/semi finalists be rewarded more

I dont see a 4 team all star would be great at pre season at all. might get good tv coverage but how many players would take part. county managers wouldnt want it nor would county boards.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121265868#Comment_121265868

Why is a warm up game needed? Most other players in other counties could have club championship or anything else on.

Why do you need to have 25th anniversary teams more a part of the occasion. and how do you do that?

Finalists? Would they really want to come on. fair enough celebrate/honour the winners of the past but the runners up as well? Would they really be interested in that?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121266345#Comment_121266345

Such as?

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121268571#Comment_121268571

I dunno what else could go in there - but an Exhibition match isn't good enough.

I'm not saying something has to go in, for what it's worth.

PTH2009

I see there scheduling league games for Paddys Day next year

I'd imagine could be some chaos getting too venues

agfasfos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121306688#Comment_121306688

Where did you locate the fixtures list for the league fixtures for 2024 ?, cant see them anywhere.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309514#Comment_121309514

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41259154.html

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legendary.xix

It's tough on some counties that they are expected to play the final two rounds of the football league, possibly a league final and then provincial first round on 4 consecutive weekends.

An alternative scheduling would be the first 3 rounds of the league, a rest weekend, another 3 rounds of the league, a rest weekend, round 7, league finals and then start the provincial championships. This way counties are not playing for more than 3 consecutive weekends.

gormdubhgorm

Just sparked from a something another poster said on another thread - basically going on about how teams keep the ball for ages in football, hoping the other side make a mistake.

Would the simple answer be a shot clock (like in basketball) could be the answer to that 'keep ball' problem? 1/2 minute limit? Have a separate ref for it in the stands. Anything more than 2 minutes of keep ball is really taking the mick as far as I am concerned. I remember years ago div 2 final Galway v Kildare. Both sides were afraid to get out of their own half and afraid to take any shot. It was not a great spectacle for the neutral.

I think could make it harsh and give a 45 to the opposition for repetitive breeching of the rule etc. That would put some smacht on them.

ArmaniJeanss

@gormdubhgorm

I think it causes as many problems as it solves.

There's a technological issue as players would need to see how much time they have left so the shot clock needs to be visible. So all scoreboards would need to be changed - not sure how feasible that is or what level it goes down to in the pyramid.

30 seconds isn't a lot of time if you gained initial possession in your own square against the hurricane on a wintry day (e.g., June/July) in Salthill - probably not physically possible to go the ~60 metres needed to get a realistic shot off. So there'd have to be some 'kick it in the general direction of the goal' alternative to count as a valid shot to avoid penalty. Would this descend into 'we gain 40 metres, kick it 30 metres, try to hold them to 20 metres and when they kick it 30 metres, we have gained net 20 metres'? Like a bad NFL-USA punt-fest game.

Lots of fun with 'did he get the shot off on 29.9 or 30.1 seconds?' arguments.

(Maybe some limit on the amount of backward passes in any uninterrupted possession might be a better solution, probably flawed as well)

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562268#Comment_121562268

Yeah, hard to figure it out. That is why I said two mintues max - 30 seconds does not seem long enough.

Though a rule like that would fundamentally change the sport and could have unintended consequences - (like the advanced mark). There definitely needs to more incentive for attacking in football though. Way too easy for a side to just shut up shop. Maybe 5 points for a goal would be a much simpler solution? Or would that make some sides even more defensive?

I don't mind a small bit of defensive football, but when they are all at it gets silly - no contrast in styles. It does not make for a nice spectacle and would not encourage neutrals to switch on.

gormdubhgorm

But as usual this time of year I am really looking forwards to the league, and wondering why I bother going to Leinster matches at all, we are in 2024 for flip sake, nothing changing in the provincials The spilt season was almost a smokescreen for the competition structural issues IMO. Ulster will say no - no doubt.

NIMAN

Came on here to raise a point, and hope this is the correct forum.

First off, I'm not a bigg GAA fan. I'll get that out in the open, and may get told to butt out due to this, but I would have followed a bit of football many moons back.

My point is about hurling though. Always enjoyed watching it over the years, and I know it's a very skillful game and a tough one as well, but as a spectacle is it starting to fail a little bit? I think with the strength of the players now, plus their skill levels, scoring is too easy. Watching games, guys are scoring from 3/4 of the pitch away, and seem to do it with ease. Their accuracy is amazing.

Do rules need changed? Or equipment? To make it harder to score from so far out?

MacDanger

I'd agree that intercounty hurling could do with having a differently weighted ball to make it a little harder to score from way out.

On the flip side, I think football would benefit from changing the ball weighting to make it a little easier to score from distance which would create more space inside as teams push out to defend

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755689#Comment_121755689

I think this is good idea, simple and does not radically change both codes. A slightly smaller ball in football might be the answer either.

It would be great to see the end of glorified hurling free-taking competitions, constant risk adverse football.

Your ideas are much better than the one I was thinking the last day when watching hurling, that that it should be 1 point for a placed ball, 2 points from play. It was correctly pointed out to me that fellas would be deliberately fouling then. So that would end up creating more problems than it would solve.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757563#Comment_121757563

Was at a match yesterday where the ref blew his whistle 39 times for fouls in 75 mins incl. injury time. 39! That doesn't include stopping play for Lineballs/Puckouts/Throw-Ins.

Ball-In-Play time must have been non-existent.

Between a taker setting up for a free, shooting it and the goalkeeper pucking the ball out it's some amount of dead-ball time.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758285#Comment_121758285

Hurling is in danger of moving from the fastest field game in the world to the most "stop start" game in the world at this rate.

I was trying to think of some in-between benefit instead of a free that would be permitted to shot at goal.

Maybe a sin bin for 2 minutes for a foul might be better than a free? Could have a ref in the stands to time that.

Only a max of 3 players can be sin binned from a team at any one time, then it reverts to the current type of free instead of a sin bin rule?

Because if a team cannot take advantage of being 3 men up there must be something wrong.

You certainly would have open games.

callaway92

Without having thought about that too much, I think some sort of a sin bin system is a good idea. Maybe even a totting of fouls conceded along the line of basketball

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758727#Comment_121758727

Yeah something like that, because missing a player for two minutes in hurling can count for a lot. As there is no "black card" in hurling it could be a nice happy medium,

But what would worry me is the competence of the officials to keep track of it, it could be fairly constant. The watch could stop, they could leave it at home etc

callaway92

There is a black card in hurling (just in case you didn’t know!) 😎

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758787#Comment_121758787

Jayus I must have gotten a wallop of a hurl to forget that.

gormdubhgorm

This is a football idea what about borrowing from Rugby? The hand pass has to go forward, the would cut out the side to side stuff and it would be much easier to ref than the thing they tried with counting the handpasses.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792448#Comment_121792448

Would like to see them try a ban on the ball going backwards past the 21/45/65.

klose

https://twitter.com/keyscolm/status/1761350087714717715?s=46

How this was even a thing I’ll never know.

breezy1985

Larry McCarthy is a strange man. I thought we couldn't top his "and now we move on to the liars" All Ireland hurling speech but his final speech about paedophiles and sectarian cold cases was a real blast.

A positive change for the GAA this weekend I think.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121811534#Comment_121811534

I think the reasoning was that extra time is a separate game. The first game was drawn, the "replay" follows immediately but is actually a separate game

Jack Daw

Martin Breheny on again about 5 points for a goal he's been writing this article for as long as I've been reading the paper (25 years).Utterly stupid suggestion as if a goal is worth 5 points it devalues scoring a point and therefore ends up making the game completely tedious as teams have to go searching for goals in the main.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827363#Comment_121827363

Why would it devalue scoring points. Goals arent that common and this would entice more teams to try score goals which should be better for the game overall

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834576#Comment_121834576

Of course it would devalue scoring points. A value of 5 for a goal is ridiculous and really jumps the line of the risk/reward of going for a goal when it’s worth 3.

They’ve sussed it out in basketball that the value of a 3 pointer and the % chance of making one makes it worthwhile to just shoot, shoot and shoot. The value of the 2 pointer is gone now essentially unless it’s a dunk or easy layup.

In Gaelic football a 5 point goal would do the same. Going for a 1 point shot would pretty much always be crazy. Also, if you’re chasing a game and you’re fouled - the time it’ll take to get a single point back with your free wouldn’t be worth it anymore.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827363#Comment_121827363

Yeah it would kill the "point" in Gaelic Football.

What about 2 points for a long range point (from whatever defined distance) from play in football?

I was just thinking of how well the 3 pointer worked in basketball. You would get more long range attempts then. It gives a bit of incentive for the long range point but not too much. Gives the players/team a decision to make.

And there will be at least be one player on each side that will become the "go to man" for it. Could really make matches interesting when there are 3/4 points in it with not long left.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837027#Comment_121837027

I often wonder would a 2 point shot have the same effect the 3 pointer had in basketball.You would think it would encourage teams to go for more long range points which would cause defenses to push out and therefore open up space closer to goal.