John Mc Cain

super_furry

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Easy to have morals when your country has no responsibility.

The western world lives and functions under the protection of the United States which takes that responsibility to defend our interests around the world.

Don't like it?

Try a world dominated by China or Russia and see how things work out for you then. They don't do democracy and this freedom lark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQaH3-LK54

Jesus there are some total pieces of shlt on this site. Enjoy.

JohnMc1

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Disrespectful. Especially someone in his position.

Mc Cain had the last laugh. Obama and Bush will deliver speeches at his funeral and Trump isn't invited.

The sitting President usually doesn't attend funerals. The First Lady and Vice President attend. I'm sure Melania and Mike Pence will be there.

FTA69

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He also fought for his country and suffered torture as a POW.

Can you say you have done the same for your country?

So the only criterion for someone to be considered a good egg now is that they fought in a war and were captured? Absolutely no context matters whatsoever?

metaoblivia

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The sitting President usually doesn't attend funerals. The First Lady and Vice President attend. I'm sure Melania and Mike Pence will be there.

Not in this instance. A major senator of his own party has died - the President would absolutely be expected to attend. For comparison, Obama was president when Ted Kennedy died and Obama not only attended the funeral, he gave the eulogy.

McCain specifically requested that Trump not attend his funeral. That's why we (hopefully) won't see him there.

Mutant z

A neo con warmongering hawk i fail to see what the great sadness is there's been many great people who have passed John McCain certainly wasn't one of them.

Schwanz

Over 80 there can be no surprise in ones death.

Didn't come across as a president but in a country where Reagan and now that plonker Trump is - I suppose he probably could have.

Sal Butamol

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He also fought for his country and suffered torture as a POW.

Can you say you have done the same for your country?

So fcuking what!

Thankfully my country doesn't launch illegal wars and blow innocent men, women and children to bits.

Star Bingo

Your Face wrote: »

He made great chips.

McCain’s oven ready

Sal Butamol

Star Bingo wrote: »

McCain’s oven ready

980 degrees fan oven. 100 mins extra crispy

Galwayguy35

FTA69 wrote: »

So the only criterion for someone to be considered a good egg now is that they fought in a war and were captured? Absolutely no context matters whatsoever?

Yeah that's exactly what I meant all right :rolleyes:

Galwayguy35

super_furry wrote: »

No because my country doesn't go around invading other countries and bombing millions for spurious reasons.

We would never have got our freedom if the likes of you were around 100 years ago, you make me sick criticizing people who put their lives on the line for their country.

Junkyard Tom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We would never have got our freedom if the likes of you were around 100 years ago, you make me sick criticizing people who put their lives on the line for their country.

Yes, it was awful how the Vietnamese attacked New York and the Americans had to defend themselves by killing millions of Vietnamese people in Vietnam.

Galwayguy35

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes, it was awful how the Vietnamese attacked New York and the Americans had to defend themselves by killing millions of Vietnamese people in Vietnam.

He was a soldier back then who was told to fight in Vietnam, you can't blame a soldier for doing his duty.

Blame the Government if you want.

Sal Butamol

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He was a soldier back then who was told to fight in Vietnam, you can't blame a soldier for doing his duty.

Blame the Government if you want.

Just following his orders yeah?

Irish Praetorian

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes, it was awful how the Vietnamese attacked New York and the Americans had to defend themselves by killing millions of Vietnamese people in Vietnam.

No, they (North Vietnam) simply invaded a US ally because they couldn't handle losing a million odd of their own population fleeing to the South to escape their tyrannical regime. Also your numbers for people killed by the US is off by a factor of about 10, which isn't to say the US didn't do some scummy things in Vietnam (or rather Indochina) - but there is no need to gild the lily so to speak.

Junkyard Tom

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

people who put their lives on the line for their country.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

you can't blame a soldier for doing his duty.

Just following orders, is it?

WanderlustIre

Don't agree with his political opinion. But be good to him and his clann.

Junkyard Tom

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

No, they (North Vietnam) simply invaded a US ally.

A stooge propped up by the US. It wasn't their business. They were picking up where the French left off. Same imperial bull**** only under a different flag.

Galwayguy35

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Just following his orders yeah?

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just following orders, is it?

Seeing as both have to be spoonfed yes that would be it

super_furry

Weird to see Irish people buy into this American ‘support the troops’ without ever questioning mentality. Handing a kid a gun and sending him off to a foreign country to shoot at brown people for no justifiable reason, does not a hero make.

Galwayguy35

super_furry wrote: »

Weird to see Irish people buy into this American ‘support the troops’ without ever questioning mentality. Handing a kid a gun and sending him off to a foreign country to shoot at brown people for no justifiable reason, does not a hero make.

Again that was the Government not the soldier, it's the soldier people are blaming which is wrong.

WanderlustIre

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Again that was the Government not the soldier, it's the soldier people are blaming which is wrong.

I remember listening to a veteran IRA member who was jailed for life he said he fought the emblem of partition which was the British army, not the young man within the uniform.

Irish Praetorian

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A stooge propped up by the US. It wasn't their business. They were picking up where the French left off. Same imperial bull**** only under a different flag.

An imperialist stooge which somehow managed to convince a million or so North Vietnamese that it was a better place to life than what would become yet another Communist dictatorship?



Who did they think they were, West Germany?

Zebra3

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I saw an interview, as a nation they hold John Mccain personally responsible for the entire war on their country

Does that satisfy your twisted world view?

What twisted world view? To oppose the idea that John McCain bombing civilians is a hero?

You do know that’s what he did? He bombed innocent civilians. He was a terrorist murderer.

Is he a hero to you?

FTA69

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We would never have got our freedom if the likes of you were around 100 years ago, you make me sick criticizing people who put their lives on the line for their country.

Back then would you have been full of praise for the Black and Tans as honourable soldiers who served their country?

WanderlustIre

FTA69 wrote: »

Back then would you have been full of praise for the Black and Tans as honourable soldiers who served their country?

Are you not the Corkonian ex shinner living and working in England?

Junkyard Tom

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

An imperialist stooge which somehow managed to convince a million or so North Vietnamese that...

CIA psyops.

Junkyard Tom

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Are you not the Corkonian ex shinner living and working in England?

We've a stalker over here.

Irish Praetorian

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

CIA psyops.

Presumably a similar psyops to just about every Communist country in the Soviet bloc since 1945? Even the piece you linked refers to augmentation of an existing flow, not the creation of a new one.

FTA69

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Are you not the Corkonian ex shinner living and working in England?

Yes. Although I don’t say Corkonian cos I’m not some popped-collar rugger type.

I also fail to see the correlation between working in England and being a member of a paramilitary police force in Ireland in the 1920s.

WanderlustIre

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We've a stalker over here.

Nope same name as on another Republican forum.

WanderlustIre

FTA69 wrote: »

Yes. Although I don’t say Corkonian cos I’m not some popped-collar rugger type.

I also fail to see the correlation between working in England and being a member of a paramilitary police force in Ireland in the 1920s.

Just trying to gauge where the opinion is coming from.

Hector Bellend

Can anyone name one worthwhile achievement from a 32 year political career other than getting shot down in Vietnam?

badtoro

I had hoped after hearing that he stopped cancer treatment that he'd have enough time left to see that orange bastard sent to jail. Unfortunately not.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_L33SyL8_I

Don't Let the Media Erase McCain's Far Right Legacy (18 minutes)


McCain and Anthrax call on Iraq

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2pxuv_teQk

Senator John McCain's surprise Syria visit (2013)

Galwayguy35

FTA69 wrote: »

Back then would you have been full of praise for the Black and Tans as honourable soldiers who served their country?

Well hardly seeing as they butchered members of my family.

Also the Americans were there to help the south in Vietnam

So a rather silly comparison with those Brit butchers.

Hector Bellend

badtoro wrote: »

I had hoped after hearing that he stopped cancer treatment that he'd have enough time left to see that orange bastard sent to jail. Unfortunately not.

For what?

FTA69

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well hardly seeing as they butchered members of my family.

Also the Americans were there to help the south in Vietnam

So a rather silly comparison with those Brit butchers.

The Americans were there to secure their geopolitical interests and to prop up a puppet state dictatorship that they helped establish. The Viet Cong were the south Vietnamese people in uprising against that state and were slaughtered by the Americans in their hundreds of thousands.

It's actually an excellent comparison, both the IRA and the Viet Minh/Cong were incarnations of a global anti-imperialist wave against the colonial powers.

Also your family has nothing to do with it, McCain butchered Vietnamese families as well like. You said McCain was a hero because he fought for his country, surely that also applies to the British soldiers and police who fought in Ireland as they were obeying the orders of king and country?

Galwayguy35

FTA69 wrote: »

The Americans were there to secure their geopolitical interests and to prop up a puppet state dictatorship that they helped establish. The Viet Cong were the south Vietnamese people in uprising against that state and were slaughtered by the Americans in their hundreds of thousands.

It's actually an excellent comparison, both the IRA and the Viet Minh/Cong were incarnations of a global anti-imperialist wave against the colonial powers.

Also your family has nothing to do with it, McCain butchered Vietnamese families as well like. You said McCain was a hero because he fought for his country, surely that also applies to the British soldiers and police who fought in Ireland as they were obeying the orders of king and country?

The Tans were ex soldiers over here for the money and they were nothing but murdering scum, every last one of them.

Nobody said some soldiers in Vietnam didn't commit atrocities but to compare the american soldiers to the Tans is stretching it to say the least.

Pa ElGrande

Judicial Watch Obtains IRS Documents Revealing McCain’s Subcommittee Staff Director Urged IRS to Engage in “Financially Ruinous” Targeting

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today released newly obtained internal IRS documents, including material revealing that Sen. John McCain’s former staff director and chief counsel on the Senate Homeland Security Permanent Subcommittee, Henry Kerner, urged top IRS officials, including then-director of exempt organizations Lois Lerner, to “audit so many that it becomes financially ruinous.” Kerner was appointed by President Trump as Special Counsel for the United States Office of Special Counsel.

The explosive exchange was contained in notes taken by IRS employees at an April 30, 2013, meeting between Kerner, Lerner, and other high-ranking IRS officials. Just ten days following the meeting, former IRS director of exempt organizations Lois Lerner admitted that the IRS had a policy of improperly and deliberately delaying applications for tax-exempt status from conservative non-profit groups.

Lerner and other IRS officials met with select top staffers from the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee in a “marathon” meeting to discuss concerns raised by both Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) that the IRS was not reining in political advocacy groups in response to the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision. Senator McCain had been the chief sponsor of the McCain-Feingold Act and called the Citizens United decision, which overturned portions of the Act, one of the “worst decisions I have ever seen.”


source

Jay Sekulow: Victory! IRS admits Tea Party, other conservative groups were targets during Obama era

It took many years to resolve. But I am delighted to report that we have just obtained a resounding victory in our legal challenge to the IRS’s political targeting of conservative organizations.

In an unprecedented victorious conclusion to our four year-long legal battle against the IRS, the bureaucratic agency has just admitted in federal court that it wrongfully targeted Tea Party and conservative groups during the Obama administration because of their political viewpoints and issued an apology to our clients for doing so. In addition, the IRS is consenting to a court order that would prohibit it from ever engaging in this form of unconstitutional discrimination in the future.

source

A republican, John McCain, abusing the power of the IRS for the same ends. And people are shocked McCain did not want Trump to speak at his funeral?


But that's not all try this from McCains visit to Ukraine in 2015


CyberBerkut release a video from Senator McCain’s Laptop which alleges IS executions are stage managed.


Back in 2011


Senators Cardin and McCain Engage in a Colloquy on the Magnitsky Act.



Who Is Bill Browder, Kremlin Foe Singled Out in Putin’s Offer?


Meet The Corrupt Billionaire Who Has Brought About A New Cold War


Browder’s sentence in case on tax evasion and deliberate bankruptcy upheld


This is curiously strange for a foreign act outside their jurisdiction to prompt the United States Congress to pass a law in the USA, don't you think?

Irish Praetorian

FTA69 wrote: »

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well hardly seeing as they butchered members of my family.

Also the Americans were there to help the south in Vietnam

So a rather silly comparison with those Brit butchers.

The Americans were there to secure their geopolitical interests and to prop up a puppet state dictatorship that they helped establish. The Viet Cong were the south Vietnamese people in uprising against that state and were slaughtered by the Americans in their hundreds of thousands.

It's actually an excellent comparison, both the IRA and the Viet Minh/Cong were incarnations of a global anti-imperialist wave against the colonial powers.

Also your family has nothing to do with it, McCain butchered Vietnamese families as well like. You said McCain was a hero because he fought for his country, surely that also applies to the British soldiers and police who fought in Ireland as they were obeying the orders of king and country?

And how much slaughter did the Viet Minh and the VC conduct in their little campaign of liberation? Why is it all these supposedly great liberation movements have bequeathed their nations nothing but totalitarian government, whilst their equivalents in South Korea and Taiwan have become modern multi-party democracies? One can condemn much US conduct during the Vietnam War as indeed one can during the Korean War, but the triumph of North Korea was a loss for everyone.

It's remarkable.. All you have to do is criticise a hated a man and you have the world defending a war that was undefendable for decades.

"Blame the government, not the soldier." - He became the government and followed the same moral compass as those who sent him to Vietnam.

The only thing this man has done since running against Obama is criticise Trump, and look at the accolades that has earned him after a horrible career that any non-"American gun-toting patriot" should be critical of. I just wish people had the balls to admit that they only like him because of Trump, instead of changing the Vietnam war into a noble endeavour.

Irish Praetorian

Deleted User wrote: »

It's remarkable.. All you have to do is criticise a hated a man and you have the world defending a war that was undefendable for decades.

"Blame the government, not the soldier." - He became the government and followed the same moral compass as those who sent him to Vietnam.

The only thing this man has done since running against Obama is criticise Trump, and look at the accolades that has earned him after a horrible career that any non-"American gun-toting patriot" should be critical of. I just wish people had the balls to admit that they only like him because of Trump, instead of changing the Vietnam war into a noble endeavour.

I can't speak for what anyone else's views are on McCain, I'm only speaking here against a pet peeve of mine; the un-nuanced condemnation of the US. In the present day I find more and more of my peers lapsing into this lazy vision of world history which usually starts at the US being bad and works its way backwards from there. It's an asinine view of world affairs and I'm inclined to challenge it where I can.

Irish Praetorian

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I can't speak for what anyone else's views are on McCain, I'm only speaking here against a pet peeve of mine; the un-nuanced condemnation of the US. In the present day I find more and more of my peers lapsing into this lazy vision of world history which usually starts at the US being bad and works its way backwards from there. It's an asinine view of world affairs and I'm inclined to challenge it where I can.

In another post here, you explained the impetus of the Vietnam war by saying that the North Vietnamese invaded a US ally simply because "they couldn't handle losing a million odd of their own population fleeing to the South to escape their tyrannical regime." That was in response to a sarcastic post about Vietnam attacking New York, thus the war being justified. So I wouldn't rush to denounce others' lazy versions of world history.

While I agree that many have a "US bad" view on everything, you have a "Communism bad US good" view which isn't much better.

Irish Praetorian

Deleted User wrote: »

In another post here, you explained the impetus of the Vietnam war by saying that the North Vietnamese invaded a US ally simply because "they couldn't handle losing a million odd of their own population fleeing to the South to escape their tyrannical regime." That was in response to a sarcastic post about Vietnam attacking New York, thus the war being justified. So I wouldn't rush to denounce others' lazy versions of world history.

While I agree that many have a "US bad" view on everything, you have a "Communism bad US good" view which isn't much better.

That sarcastic post was exactly the kind of lazy vision I was talking about. From that post one might ascribe the clapped out narrative of the US being in Vietnam for the purpose of just being evil for evil's sake. I would also disagree with your characterization of my view on history; my posts demonstrate quite amply I've no problem criticising US conduct and policy throughout history - simply refuse the simplistic 'good v bad' vision others proffer.

Sal Butamol

If McCain had died around the Sarah Palin debacle and his "that guy" remarks about Obama the left would have reacted with glee and **** on him from a height.

Few years later and because he disliked Trump, the left are fawning over him.


Really goes to show the anti-war movement in the U.S. which was traditionally left-leaning is well and truly dead and buried.

The Democrats are just as bad as the GOP these days for supporting war mongering criminals.

Irish Praetorian

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

That sarcastic post was exactly the kind of lazy vision I was talking about. From that post one might ascribe the clapped out narrative of the US being in Vietnam for the purpose of just being evil for evil's sake. I would also disagree with your characterization of my view on history; my posts demonstrate quite amply I've no problem criticising US conduct and policy throughout history - simply refuse the simplistic 'good v bad' vision others proffer.

I disagree that that sort of post has a lazy vision of history. People who are anti-war, and especially anti proxy wars such as Vietnam, can easily point to the fact that the US is the aggressor in every one of these "conflicts" since their homeland is never attacked.
You can't really expect someone to put a lot of effort into such a simple argument, so sarcasm such as New York being attacked is sufficient.

If it is lazy to be of the opinion that the US had no business being in Vietnam, that would suggest that there was some legitimate reason for them being there. Few believe that "defeating communism" or "the North attacked a US ally" justify what happened. Believing it's a serious black mark on their history isn't being "anti US" either.

KevinCavan

It was only when he died I found out a bit about his background. ****ing hell, how was this guy not elected president, he sounds like John Rambo rather than John McCain!

Irish Praetorian

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree that that sort of post has a lazy vision of history. People who are anti-war, and especially anti proxy wars such as Vietnam, can easily point to the fact that the US is the aggressor in every one of these "conflicts" since their homeland is never attacked.
You can't really expect someone to put a lot of effort into such a simple argument, so sarcasm such as New York being attacked is sufficient.

If it is lazy to be of the opinion that the US had no business being in Vietnam, that would suggest that there was some legitimate reason for them being there. Few believe that "defeating communism" or "the North attacked a US ally" justify what happened. Believing it's a serious black mark on their history isn't being "anti US" either.

In the last World War neither Britain nor France were 'attacked' when Germany invaded Poland - does that mean they waged an unwarranted war of aggression? How about South Korea - were the UN and various nations of the world malicious invading a foreign land when they defended South Korea? What about Bosnia - no foreign nations involved just an internal campaign of systematic extermination, was intervention there yet another wrong?


There is plenty to dislike about the US, even in the conduct of these wars I have listed. The problem is, the alternatives have even more to dislike.