John Mc Cain

Deleted User wrote: »

Such an American mindset, I've no idea how it creeped into Ireland. You're saying McCain was good because he was killing Vietnamese people, and Trump is bad because he didn't?

What? What are you on about man? That's not what I said at all. Trump as a defender of Vietnamese Civilian life, that's the best one ever!

I made no claims about the morality or lack thereof of the Vietnam War. If you actually want my personal opinion on it - as opposed to inferring it based on something I didn't actually say - then I think absolutely without question it was a morally unjustifiable war that should have never happened. You missed the point of what I was saying and added on some other stuff that I never went into.

My point was that Trump had referred to McCain as a coward. Now, whatever you may think about about the rights and wrongs of the war, I think McCain endured incredible punishment as a POW for many years and many men would not have been able to survive it. Do I think his conscience as a guy who dropped bombs should be squeaky clean, of course not. But I have a basic level of respect for him because he showed himself to be a tough bastard who didn't die in a situation where it would have been easier to quit. You can respect someone for something even if you don't agree with every other facet of them or even why they are doing that something in the first place. Life isn't always black and white you know.

And please stop trying to rewrite history to make it sound as if Trump was some sort of conscientious objector to the war. My arse! He didn't want to get killed, that's all! I can't necessarily blame him for that, it's pretty understandable really! But he used his family connections to worm his way out of facing any action and, given that, he should have the grace to not call people who did actually fight - whether it was morally justified or not - and suffer, cowards.

That's what I was saying with my post. Dial the rhetoric back a bit.

Arghus wrote: »

My point was that Trump had referred to McCain as a coward. Now, whatever you may think about about the rights and wrongs of the war, I think McCain endured incredible punishment as a POW for many years and many men would not have been able to survive it. Do I think his conscience as a guy who dropped bombs should be squeaky clean, of course not. But I have a basic level of respect for him because he showed himself to be a tough bastard who didn't die in a situation where it would have been easier to quit. You can respect someone for something even if you don't agree with every other facet of them or even why they are doing that something in the first place. Life isn't always black and white you know.

Pissed me off seeing the draft dodger call McCain a coward.

I heard yesterday that he was refusing further treatment for his brain cancer. Today he died.

His wife put out a statement that included the words " He passed the way he lived , on his own terms, surrounded by the people he loved".

one less war monger hack who could have started a nuclear war, hell just became a little less safe

Didn't like his politics, at all, but I hope he and his family has peace after fighting cancer, not a nice way to go.

Deleted User wrote: »

Best what ever? I never said that. Unfortunately, your wall of text follows that theme all the way through.


McCain was in Vietnam. Trump wasn't. I don't care for the reasons because I am Irish and I don't fetishise war or have any respect for soldiers. Nor do most Irish people I know. "Draft dodging" means nothing to me and is more of a plus than a minus, regardless of the reasons. America's homeland was not under attack and Vietnam was not like WWII.

You respect soldiers, and that's something that's been imported from America. That was my point. You also seem to give him a pass on the bad things he's done because you respect how tough he is. I don't agree with that or even understand the logic.

The rest of your post is glorifying strongmen and putting words in my mouth so I won't even quote it or respond to it. I don't care about McCain enough.

He's putting words in your mouth? Amazing!

Such a shame, although he cheated death a fair few times. I always thought the lord would take him around Christmas time. May he rest in peace.
To quote the great man "Yippie-Ki-Yay, Motherf*cker"

ClanofLams wrote: »

The above isn’t accurate but even if it were, the man has a wife, kids, grandkids,etc - his passing is certainly a loss to them.

Have a little decency.

Sorry you're wrong there, it is accurate. He once stood up and sang Bomb Iran to the theme of Barbara Ann and was a big cheerleader for the farce in Libya that put jihadis and slavers into power.

Yippee ki-yay Mr. McCain.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm not going to deal with all of these given the time but just a few;

Afghanistan - toppling an Islamist regime that harboured the most deadly terrorists of all time, so terrible.

Libya - why couldn't we have just stood back and let the violence unfold, I mean that worked in Syria right?

Bosnia and Kosovo - so intervening to stop a genocide was a bad thing, got it.

Ukraine - yes those famous Ukrainian neo-nazi who are so strong they didn't manage to get into parliament in the last election.


You want to make complaints about a man's policy fine; you might want to do more than just regurgitating the usual 'USA bad' tropes.

Neocons like John Mc Cain don't do humatarian policies, especially ones that joke about bombing an entire country at a public gathering. That they might have their problems doesn't mitigate the agenda. Same bull**** was used to justify likes of Iraq, look how great the regions doing now.