People on the dole for years

Geuze

LirW wrote: »

I'm seriously interested though: if you have to sign on they'll often put you on Jobpath or a similar scheme, they call you in to see if you're looking for work and that might have an effect on your payments.
For long-term unemployed, would that be different? How are they keeping their payments up?

Not being smart or so, genuinely interested.

I suspect older people on JSA for a long time are not challenged as much.

It's easier to move a 25 year old on JSA towards re-training or a job, so I'm guessing the DSP / Intreo staff go for the easy wins first?

Geuze

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I didnt know if you never worked you get a state pension

This country is insane . It really is bonkers .

The non-con pension is means-tested.

Yes, we are too generous to non-contributors.

Contributory pension = 243.30 full rate

Non-con pension = 232

11 per week extra for 40 years work.

Outlaw Pete

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I didnt know if you never worked you get a state pension

This country is insane . It really is bonkers .

It would be more insane not to give the elderly a pension ffs.

Geuze

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I'm going to admit something extremely petty and something I'm not proud of.

I have a relative- a teen, who earlier this year had a baby. Baby's father has not been in the picture from Day 1. Fair enough, I believe her when she says her and the child are better off without him and his family.

She has dropped out of school- not just for a year while she finds her feet in motherhood, whichI would be totally fine with. She has zero plans to do a leaving cert, attend a college (even at PLC level) or even find a job. She wants to spend her time sitting at home with her baby, taking pictures of the child for Instagram and writing about how they're the "love of her life" "so proud to be your mammy" etc.

It's not the lifestyle I necessarily object to; the lack of intention to do anything more with her her life and the expectation that the world will simply "provide" for her annoys me. The fact that the rest of us work bloody hard to get some sort of education and get on our feet financially to provide for potential families.

I know it's unreasonable to be angry at a kid like her. I know it's no real life that she's setting up for her and her child.

But I can't help how I feel about it.

That teenagers parents have a responsibility to encourage her to undertake education and training.

Geuze

pekitivey wrote: »

How much are social welfare payments costing the state each year? How much are fraudulent payments costing the state each year? I bet its pittance in comparison to the state pension. Which comes from the same budget does it not?

Total SW exp = 20 bn approx

Sweet.Science

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

It would be more insane not to give the elderly a pension ffs.

I agree but there has to be a considerable difference in both payments so it encourages people to work and contribute to society

Feisar

LirW wrote: »

You have people like Johnny in every country. You have two choices on how to deal with it: you pay them welfare to keep them entertained, it's a very basic lifestyle that you can maintain with it.
Or you cut them off and they'll very likely turn towards crime to keep themselves going.

This, it's like a tax decent people have to pay to keep the scum satiated

Sweet.Science

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I agree but there has to be a considerable difference in both payments so it encourages people to work and contribute to society

I don’t think some young wan is too worried about the pension they will get in 40 odd years

Mrs OBumble

Geuze wrote: »

Total SW exp = 20 bn approx

And the breakdown between pensions, disability and all other benefits is ...???

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I do take issue with supporting people who have never ever worked through sheer laziness. Or people who don't want to do anything to better their circumstances.

So what would you like do instead of supporting them - shoot them, or set them up so that they have to steal to eat?

Rennaws wrote: »

I couldn't give two flucks why Johnny can't work.

And I don't see why me or my family should lose out financially because of Johnny's "issues".

If people are genuinely in need we should of course support them but we have way too many people like Johnny walking around doing SFA and the reality is we can't afford to keep them all.

Thomyokk wrote: »

You think everyone on welfare would turn to crime?

If welfare was removed, and the are not employable, then what do you think they'd turn to for food - prayer and miraculous intervention?

suicide_circus wrote: »

I agree there are people who are just plain unemployable in the ordinary sense of the word but the idea that they have a right to free money with no responsibilities attached is wrong. if they are adults who have sufficient mental capacity they must contribute to their own upkeep. if they don't have the mental capacity, they need to be on disability benefit.

In theory, I agree totally.

But in practise: If you have a job for the like of Johnny in your company, please do phone Intreo now, they will be genuinely pleased to hear from you. But make sure you budget plenty for his supervision, and also that your employer liability insurance people are aware of the situation too (it's likely your premium will go up).

The conclusion is that there are lots of people that don't want to work and never will. We have to pay for these people because ultimately we don't have the heart to let them die / starve etc.

We give them money for having kids when they absolutely shouldn't be having kids they can't afford.

Then we give them a Xmas bonus because sure it's Xmas and everyone deserves a happy Xmas.

Then we give them a house for them and their kids while we struggle to buy property ourselves.

Then we give them a pension to live happily ever after.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I didnt know if you never worked you get a state pension

Plenty of women in Ireland have never worked, because they grew up in a society that expected women to get married, have children, and stay at home. Female public servants at one time had to give up their jobs when they got married. Even the constitution includes a clause that states "by her life within the home, woman gives to the state a support without which the common good cannot be achieved."

What would you do with women who grew up in this era now that they are old?

Feisar

Rhett Plump Pantry wrote: »

Plenty of women in Ireland have never worked, because they grew up in a society that expected women to get married, have children, and stay at home. Female public servants at one time had to give up their jobs when they got married. Even the constitution includes a clause that states "by her life within the home, woman gives to the state a support without which the common good cannot be achieved."

What would you do with women who grew up in this era now that they are old?

Some sort of workhouse except with 24/7 bingo.

Sweet.Science

Rhett Plump Pantry wrote: »

Plenty of women in Ireland have never worked, because they grew up in a society that expected women to get married, have children, and stay at home. Female public servants at one time had to give up their jobs when they got married. Even the constitution includes a clause that states "by her life within the home, woman gives to the state a support without which the common good cannot be achieved."

What would you do with women who grew up in this era now that they are old?

Well there will have to be some solution or there will be nothing in the pot in 10 years

Hector Savage

Geuze wrote: »

The non-con pension is means-tested.

Yes, we are too generous to non-contributors.

Contributory pension = 243.30 full rate

Non-con pension = 232

11 per week extra for 40 years work.

JAYSUS

Sweet.Science

Also

If you haven't worked all your life and have been on HAP/Council House do you stop paying rent at a certain age ?

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Well there will have to be some solution or there will be nothing in the pot in 10 years

I don't see your logic.

I agree that the state should be doing more to encourage able-bodied younger people to work. But what is the state to do in the case of a 70-year-old woman who has never worked outside the home, and has no academic or professional qualifications?

Squall Leonhart

Plumbthedepths wrote:

You don't . At present we have two pensions. Contributory and non contributory the latter at present being slightly less.

With people going from jobseekers allowance effectively being promoted when they hit retirement age and receive their non contributory pension.

Plumbthedepths

Squall Leonhart wrote:

With people going from jobseekers allowance effectively being promoted when they hit retirement age and receive their non contributory pension.

I believe there should be a third band of pension, it you have never worked ie unwilling to. You should receive a pension that is a minimum 50 euro less per week than a contributory pension.

Lollipops23

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So what would you like do instead of supporting them - shoot them, or set them up so that they have to steal to eat?

Stop incentivising the lifestyle.

Give them the bare minimum so they can stay healthy. That's it.

No Xmas bonuses, no turning down free houses. Enough for food and heating. Not enough to replace their iPhone every 6 months.

The Bishop Basher

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Stop incentivising the lifestyle.

Give them the bare minimum so they can stay healthy. That's it.

No Xmas bonuses, no turning down free houses. Enough for food and heating. Not enough to replace their iPhone every 6 months.

Exactly.. Also give them food, clothes and home heating vouchers instead of cash..

Edgware

I know one individual who is now mid 40s. His only employment experience was 9 months as an apprentice butcher and was sackedfor giving pals steak for the price of sausages. He has never worked since.
There are others I know who for health reasons just could not do a 40 hour week but have done 10/14 hours on Community Employment schemes with local clubs etc. They didn't break their back but did appreciate the social interaction while doing light work such as cleaning, getting the hall ready for meetings etc. They had a sense of purpose and made the effort to do their bit.

Church on Tuesday

I can't be arsed with these kind of threads anymore so here's an adorable cat video. Much more interesting.

https://youtu.be/qRcn2zQY-QY

wexie

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I can't be arsed with these kind of threads anymore so here's an adorable cat video. Much more interesting.

https://youtu.be/qRcn2zQY-QY

Was fully expecting that to lead to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Wanderer78

Church on Tuesday wrote:

I can't be arsed with these kind of threads anymore so here's an adorable cat video. Much more interesting.

What an ugly cat, I'm enraged!

Mrs OBumble

Feisar wrote: »

Some sort of workhouse except with 24/7 bingo.

Maybe they could take in washing from hotels and the like ....

Deebles McBeebles

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What an ugly cat, I'm enraged!

Saw that cat signing on the other day. Stupid dole cat.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Maybe they could take in washing from hotels and the like ....

We'd never make that mistake again would we? Our entire history shows we have never repeated the same mistake twice

Church on Tuesday

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What an ugly cat, I'm enraged!

Their cute little meows though....

Wasters all the same though, expecting handouts.

topper75

One creature's slab of budget lager is another creature's box of fish-flavoured kibble.

But the underlying principle is the same: Dumbass worker pays.

DEFTLEFTHAND

There used to be a pride thing about work years ago. Especially with men.

Irish had a worldwide reputation for being proud hard workers.

People wouldn't even contemplate the dole, they'd starve before suffering the indignity of signing on.

Technocentral

Sweet.Science wrote: »

pekitivey wrote: »

I agree 99.9%. But every country in the world has these "lazy" people who want to get away with doing shag all. But tbh, I pity them. Imagine living that lifestyle? It must be depressing. I get bored if I have a week off and don't do anything special with the time.

I agree . It has to be linked to suffering to poor mental health. I spend a fortune on my time off trying to keep busy.

Drugs, booze, anti social behavior and Sky Sports keep them entertained.

topper75

topper75 wrote: »

One creature's slab of budget lager is another creature's box of fish-flavoured kibble.

But the underlying principle is the same: Dumbass worker pays.

We need a moany middle thread were we can rant about how **** it is working 40 hours a week and commuting 10 hours and it's a struggle to do anything in life.

My 50 euro a month health insurance policy barely gets me anything. People on dole get medical card.

Thomyokk

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If welfare was removed, and the are not employable, then what do you think they'd turn to for food - prayer and miraculous intervention?

Prattle On


You're only demonstrating your ignorance

Clonmel1000

nlrkjos wrote: »

I recently offered a guy a job offshore Norway, a 2 week on 3 week off rotation, the 5 week shift after tax would put approx €5500 in his pocket... his first question to me was "could I sign on for the 3 weeks off !" this guy was a great welder and worked hard as long as i know him, but after 2 years on the dole he just could not accept going out to work when there was "free money+extras" on offer at home, after listening to his reasons, I wouldn't blame him...he'd lose medical card, rent supplement, and a few other benefits for the sake of a two years work, he reckoned it would take him years to get back to his current standard of living..he don't drink or smoke, married with two rugrats and in a council house. It makes ya wonder, are we fecken eejits to work (self esteem aside)!!!!!!

Rent supplement in a council house?

Thomyokk

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Rent supplement in a council house?

it was the 5500 for the 10 days that put him off:D

Ray Palmer

The issue is the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The people causing the most fuss are catered for. The issue is is it doesn't matter if it is good behaviour or bad they get attention.

Original concept of welfare was to give everyone a chance to improve and help people up. The problem is there are social issues beyond simple financial issues. The idea of punishment to correct behaviour just won't work.

I know people I grew up with in school and I just could get some of the other guys behaviour. I am talking from the age of 6 you could just tell some people were behaving in anti-social ways. Obviously as a kid I didn't have understanding or vocabulary to put my finger on what was wrong about them.

As I grew up and some of these people went to the same schools as me I basically got an understanding of how they simply didn't care about the same things as me or basic human decency. Used to just simply think they were just simply not nice or aholes but now I see it a little differently. Later on I realised one of them had an alcoholic father and his mother had died when he was very young. He was regularly beaten and maybe more. He was an absolute bully in school but what else would he be like? He is in prison now. Did he really have the same chances as me or was he going to be a nice guy ?

People say that is bleeding heart liberal thinking but I really can't think any other thing than that guy was let down and should be helped due to failure from the state to help him. The teachers must have figured out what was going on and didn't do anything.

Ally Dick

I've witnessed scumbag getting on a provincial bus in Busaras, and swiping a card when with the driver. Is there a free travel scheme for certain lowlifes too?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Ally Dick wrote: »

I've witnessed scumbag getting on a provincial bus in Busaras, and swiping a card when with the driver. Is there a free travel scheme for certain lowlifes too?

Disability Allowance recipients get free travel, it might also have been a leapcard?

Ally Dick

Musa Fluffy Taster wrote: »

Disability Allowance recipients get free travel, it might also have been a leapcard?

These were junkies. Half off their nuts

ayux4rj6zql2ph

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I dunno why we can't just have one dole megathread instead of new thread every second day!!

We do, it's called state benefits, but we wouldn't get away with half the stuff we say over there compared with AH.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Ally Dick wrote: »

These were junkies. Half off their nuts

Most likely free travel then, they are in receipt of disability allowance for their addictions possibly. Once you are on that i am of the understanding it is a lifelong payment which can be subject to review. I know of one person who is in receipt of it since 1983 when they were aged 18, never once called for a review.

Samuel T. Cogley

Assetbacked wrote: »

Check and mate.

More like mate and cheque.

Nicparola

Ally Dick wrote: »

What support type keeps paying for years and years. Can't be job seekers allowance. Is it illness benefit?? That's all I am asking

Benefits are based on prsi contributions and paid for max 2 year so no its not that.

Paddy Cow

pekitivey wrote: »

How much are social welfare payments costing the state each year? How much are fraudulent payments costing the state each year? I bet its pittance in comparison to the state pension. Which comes from the same budget does it not?

The biggest cost to the state is pensions, not payments to long term unemployed. When you have celebrities like the President claiming a yearly pension of €140,000 :eek: plus all the other politicians, it all adds up.

Where your money goes

8 billion spent on pensions which is not sustainable. Each government kicks the can down the road (to protect their own pension) but soon we won't have enough taxpayers to keep it up.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Total SW exp = 20 bn approx

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report.aspx

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

State Pensions = 7.4bn (this excludes Public Service pensions)


Total Working Age Income Supports = 3.6bn

of which JSA = 2bn and OPFP = 0.5bn


Illness, Disability, Caring = 4bn

of which

Disability Allowance DA = 1.5bn, this has risen very fast

Carers Allowance CA = 730m

nlrkjos

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Rent supplement in a council house?

council are renting it from a landlord...I should've said HAP, I'm not too much up on this welfare/HSE/ benefit stuff!!! all i know is, when the guy put it on paper I could understand his situation. My problem with it is, welfare has become a way of life. good honest people are being sucked down,maybe the "payments" are OK, but pride and self esteem are being shot to fck!!!

Plumbthedepths

nlrkjos wrote:

council are renting it from a landlord...I should've said HAP, I'm not too much up on this welfare/HSE/ benefit stuff!!! all i know is, when the guy put it on paper I could understand his situation. My problem with it is, welfare has become a way of life. good honest people are being sucked down,maybe the "payments" are OK, but pride and self esteem are being shot to fck!!!

Hi again, just want to call bs on this. The story has changed a few times where your inaccurate information has been pointed out to you. Then you come back with more concise information. You seem to be fishing for outrage. I'm amazed that you can't get someone to work for 10 days for 5500 euro, of course that's if you story was true. Hope you don't mind but I will file it in the fairytale section.

nlrkjos

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Hi again, just want to call bs on this. The story has changed a few times where your inaccurate information has been pointed out to you. Then you come back with more concise information. You seem to be fishing for outrage. I'm amazed that you can't get someone to work for 10 days for 5500 euro, of course that's if you story was true. Hope you don't mind but I will file it in the fairytale section.

it's not working for 10 days...it's 14 days straight thru 12 hour shifts!(offshore)and 20 days off, so the money is for a 5 week rota, I'm not looking for any "outrage"...just pointing out that welfare or whatever you want to call it, is actually competing with work ethic, if that's a fairytale then so be it!

Plumbthedepths

nlrkjos wrote:

it's not working for 10 days...it's 14 days straight thru 12 hour shifts!(offshore)and 20 days off, so the money is for a 5 week rota, I'm not looking for any "outrage"...just pointing out that welfare or whatever you want to call it, is actually competing with work ethic, if that's a fairytale then so be it!

You've changed the story a few times but tag line sentiment is the same at the end each time. Never said a work ethic was a fairytale, just the story you're peddling imo is one. After I pointed out you do not get rent supplement in a council house the story changed after I mentioned your friend would keep the medical card for 3 years after taking up employment the story changed. You see a pattern? Anyway as I said nice story but a crock of ......well you can guess.

Peatys

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm off to have another ten children then. I was under the clearly ridiculous notion that child benefit is only €140 per month per child and that each child is costing me slightly over €1,150 per month in créche fees at the moment. I can't believe the wife has been lying to me. Happy days; I can give up work and watch all that child benefit come in to cover the expense of raising a child.

You see you're still thinking like a worker bee. Give up the aul work, and straight away you're up 1150 in crèche fees.

See how easy that was.

nlrkjos

nlrkjos wrote: »

council are renting it from a landlord...I should've said HAP, I'm not too much up on this welfare/HSE/ benefit stuff!!! all i know is, when the guy put it on paper I could understand his situation. My problem with it is, welfare has become a way of life. good honest people are being sucked down,maybe the "payments" are OK, but pride and self esteem are being shot to fck!!!

And if it’s HAP then he still isn’t getting rent allowance. He pays the council the same rate he would pay were he in a council house.