Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

pheasant tail

kingtut wrote: »

Ditto

Another question for you (or anyone else for that matter) - what are your thoughts on cruelty towards animals that are not consumed by humans (in general). Like horse racing (where the horses get whipped) and dog races (a huge topic in the media these days) ?

Someone who is vegan would not partake in anything that’s uses animals, for example ‘entertainment’ purposes as you mentioned above. Veganism is not a diet.
And in response to your other question, animals are sentient beings, plants are not.

Xcellor

emaherx wrote: »

You think all land used for grazing animals can be used to grow crops at a commercial level?


If everyone was vegan we have to slaughter billions of animals to free up the land and then realize that land wasn't suitable for growing crops in the first place.

The world won't go vegan overnight but a few more % here and there , a lowering of demand, less subsidies and herd sizes will drop naturally.

Id say a fraction of the land is required if we aren't growing crops / fodder to feed 90 odd billion land animals and using it instead to feed 6 billion humans instead.

Ecce No Homo

Can't wait for the vegan whopper!

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't really care if you see the difference or not. People don't want to see animals factory farmed and want to cause as little impact and suffering on the natural world as possible. Obviously we have to eat something to stay alive. Mushrooms and chickpeas aren't really in the same category of living things as pigs and cows and dogs. If you don't understand that, that's fine.

Because it's not just 'mushrooms and chickpeas". That's delusional thinking right there. Have you ever seen industrial mushroom farming? If you imagine it's some lovely girls out picking mushrooms in the field you'd be barking. Ditto industrial arable production of crops such as chickpeas and wheat and vegetables. Massive inputs of water and fertilisers and pesticides and the eradication of all pests and the death of billions of animals through intensive cultivation and harvesting.

Humans by their existence cause massive "impacts and suffering on the natural world". It wouldn't matter if every cow and sheep in the planet were eradicated tmrw - the death and destruction of organisms and animals would continue apace. Animal farming with high welfare means that the animals are looked after and cared for while they are alive. They are killed humanly. And if they're not - then that's a problem that needs to be fixed and not used as ammunition for those who are against any form of animal farming whatsoever.

Ecce No Homo

gozunda wrote: »

Animal farming with high welfare means that the animals are looked after and cared for while they are alive. They are killed humanly. And if they're not - then that's a problem that needs to be fixed and not used as ammunition for those who are against any form of animal farming whatsoever.

Look bud. You're going to be eating laboratory grown meat in a few years so just enjoy your cruelty-grown meat until then.

El_Duderino 09

Ecce No Homo wrote: »

Can't wait for the vegan whopper!

Greggs* is a very cheap, baked food shop in the UK. Pies, pastry bakes, sandwiches, cheap lunch or quick pie when on the way from one pub to another. Anyway, they brought out a vegan sausage roll and it's a massive success. I know lads who choose the vegan version over the regular because it's tastier.

*I'm not commenting on the quality of Greggs, just it's popularity

gozunda

Xcellor wrote: »

The world won't go vegan overnight but a few more % here and there , a lowering of demand, less subsidies and herd sizes will drop naturally.

Id say a fraction of the land is required if we aren't growing crops / fodder to feed 90 odd billion land animals and using it instead to feed 6 billion humans instead.

The world wont ever go vegan period. Too many poor countries heavily rely on animal agriculture. Ethiopia alone has 53 million cattle. Even in India - milk provides a vital foodstuff to many poor farmers. Many families may only have one or two animals however those are crucial to many poor families health and survival. In these countries- there few if any subsidies.

I'd suggest you're not a farmer if you somehow rethink that a fraction of the land would be used to grow replacement crops if all animals were o be eradicated.

Firstly what is fed to farm animals is mainly forage here. In countries where there is not as plentiful forage - what gets fed to animals is primarily the left overs or by products of human food production.

http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/home/en/news_archive/2017_More_Fuel_for_the_Food_Feed.html

All this left over material-often inedible to humans would itself go to waste. And the fact is that much of the grassland cant be converted to arable production due to unsuitable topography and climatic conditions.

The thing is there is no world shortage of food in the world. Hunger and famine is mainly caused by corruption and inequality.

So no - none of the above form any argument which supports eradicating farm animals from the planet in favour of humans.

https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

El_Duderino 09

topper75 wrote: »

Analogy isn't 'just like'.

You got my point. The ads are dreadful and undermine whatever logical case might be made by being so emotive. I don't understand how they are permitted by advertising standards.

On what grounds should they be censored?

anewme

I saw the Billboard about "nothing good happens in Slaughterhouses" and I believe its a very sad image. What they are saying is true though, nothing good happens there. I gave up meat this time last year and have no desire to go back.

gozunda

Ecce No Homo wrote: »

Look bud. You're going to be eating laboratory grown meat in a few years so just enjoy your cruelty-grown meat until then.

Really bud? Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over primary food production .

That might be your 'future'- It certainly wont be mine.

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

Really bud? Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over the food industry.

That might be your 'future'- It certainly wont be mine.

Assuming they could grow meat of equal quality, cost etc. without farming, would you use it then?

Ecce No Homo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Assuming they could grow meat of equal quality, cost etc. without farming, would you use it then?

I'm growing meat of superior quality as we speak. Time to turn on the awl QuickCam and get a glob of saliva ready.

Effects

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Anyway, they brought out a vegan sausage roll and it's a massive success. I know lads who choose the vegan version over the regular because it's tastier.

I tried one last time I was in London. It's manky. But so is most of the stuff in Greggs.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some animals are more equal than others and I don't think that's right.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

People and vegans do not regard lice and parasites in the same way they do dogs and sheep etc. If you think that's hypocritical I'm fine with that.
I'm pretty sure rats are considered vermin by everyone.

Yes, this is very hypocritical.

It's simple not all animals are equal and nor should they be.

weisses

gozunda wrote: »

Really bud? Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over the food industry.

That might be your 'future'- It certainly wont be mine.

They already own the meat industry so you must know what its like

A largely plant based diet is already Favored by everybody who knows anything about food and nutrition ... Meat is mostly added to the list because of lobbying botched research sponsored by the beef/dairy/poultry sector and some pragmatism

Meat consumption will never go away but the way it is now and direction it is going is unsustainable...period

So logically there will be a push to a healthy largely plant based diet yes ...one which is good for the humans and will do much good in regards to sustainability

emaherx

weisses wrote: »

A largely plant based diet is already Favored by everybody who knows anything about food and nutrition ...

Yes absolutely it is, and most people have a largely plant based diet. Don't know of many pushing for anything else, we are omnivores not carnivores. Meat can be part of a balanced diet.

Ecce No Homo

Spin spin spin, around and around it goes, I'm reaching for the QuickCam

Fourier

pheasant tail wrote: »

Someone who is vegan would not partake in anything that’s uses animals, for example ‘entertainment’ purposes as you mentioned above. Veganism is not a diet.
And in response to your other question, animals are sentient beings, plants are not.

What does sentient mean here?

Depending on the definition plants are argued to be sentient in recent research.

Homelander

Had a Falafel quarter pounder recently and I have to say it was incredible.

JupiterKid

Humans are omnivores...it is almost certainly probable that we developed large brains and high intelligence during our evolution because of eating meat and changing from an almost exclusively plant based diet to a more high energy meat and vegetable/cereal one.

We do however consume far too much meat in the West and that is very problematic from an environmental and a health perspective.

A balanced diet is key. I have a "live and let live" approach to life - but I do not like loaded and emotive billboard campaigns designed to shock and guilt people into becoming vegans.

If anything, that will just entrench opinions on both sides of the debate (just look at this thread!) and not lead to a consensus and a way ahead for human food production that is sustainable and beneficial for the human species and the planet as a whole.

pheasant tail

Fourier wrote: »

What does sentient mean here?

Depending on the definition plants are argued to be sentient in recent research.

Go out and give a dog a good kick and do the same with a bunch of nettles and come back and share your experience and the differences!

pheasant tail

gozunda wrote: »

Really bud? Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over the food industry.

That might be your 'future'- It certainly wont be mine.

Aren’t ABP, Glanbia, Tyson in the states and many other traditional ‘meat processing’ companies now investing in plant based foods?

gozunda

weisses wrote: »

They already own the meat industry so you must know what its likeA largely plant based diet is already Favored by everybody who knows anything about food and nutrition ... Meat is mostly added to the list because of lobbying botched research sponsored by the beef/dairy/poultry sector and some pragmatism. Meat consumption will never go away but the way it is now and direction it is going is unsustainable...period. So logically there will be a push to a healthy largely plant based diet yes ...one which is good for the humans and will do much good in regards to sustainability

Do they? So you are claiming these multinationals farm the animals here in Ireland and milk the cattle etc ? And "Everybody who knows about nutrition" lol. More daft misinformation right there. A healthy balanced diet inclusive of meat and of vegetables etc is the diet recommended btw. As for example.

https://irishheart.ie/your-health/ways-to-live-better/healthy-eating/

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/food-and-nutrition/eating-well/eatwell-guide-how-to-eat-a-healthy-balanced-diet

So - no not some lifestyle / aspirational plant based only diet based on western economic security and ready access to cheap imported  foodstuffs.

Animal farming remains a lifeline to billions of poor people around the world. It produces high quality foodstuffs which utilise forage which is inedible - to produce something that is. It also uses up the waste products of the human food industry. By products which otherwise result in disposal problems and waste.

So no farming and specifically animal farming is not going to be replaced just because a tiny minority might like it that way. But keep dreaming ...

El_Duderino 09

Effects wrote: »

I tried one last time I was in London. It's manky. But so is most of the stuff in Greggs.

OK. And that's specifically why I added a note saying I wasn't commenting on the quality of Greggs food. But I can attest to its popularity and that of tge vegan sausage roll.

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

Really bud? Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over the food industry.

That might be your 'future'- It certainly wont be mine.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Assuming they could grow meat of equal quality, cost etc. without farming, would you use it then?

Any comment?

Fourier

pheasant tail wrote: »

Go out and give a dog a good kick and do the same with a bunch of nettles and come back and share your experience and the differences!

What's that got to do with my question? I know a dog is different from a nettle.

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Any comment?

You already quoted my answer btw.

gozunda wrote:

...Do you advocate highly processed gunk by way of food for humans? It's funny I kept hearing about this plant based "whole food diet" but all that is being pushed is this type of gunk produced by multinationals and corporations hell bent on taking over the food industry..

What bit of that makes you think I might change my mind about that type of product?

So obviously no.

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

You already quoted my answer btw.



What bit of that makes you think I might change my mind about that type of product?

So obviously no.

Humm. That's why I asked IF they could produce it to that same quality and cost as meat that hasn't been farmed, would you eat it. Assume "quality" means texture, health profile etc.

But I take it you're not going to answer it. Full disclosure, I was asking to see if your your principle point it just to lobby for farming and against anything that would detract from the farming industry.

Wouldn't you just come clean about your motive? Or do you think it's a massive coincidence that you're always on the side giving out about anything vegan, vegetarian, or anything that happens to detract from the meat farming industry?

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Humm. That's why I asked IF they could produce it to that same quality and cost as meat that hasn't been farmed, would you eat it. Assume "quality" means texture, health profile etc. But I take it you're not going to answer it. Full disclosure,I was asking to see if your your principle point it just to lobby for farming and against anything that would detract from the farming industry.
Wouldn't you just come clean about your motive? Or do you think it's a massive coincidence that you're always on the side giving out about anything vegan, vegetarian, or anything that happens to detract from the meat farming industry?

Humm indeed. That is some quite incredible conjecture there. These are my personal opinions btw - take them how you will.

So let me spell it out - I for one certainly do not wish to see any monopoly of producing primary foodstuffs by large multinationals and that's what detailed in the comment above. And I say that as a consumer of foods. You evidently missed that. Btw framing that question as an IF - you may as well ask the same question - IF the moon was made of cheese - would I eat that!

No I dont care what ****e these interests are producing, how healthy they claim it to be or otherwise. If you somehow think that is "lobbying for farming" then so be it.

This is part of what I find distasteful about much of this discussion. Any dissenting opinion is held up being motivated either purely by money or self interest. It's like some cannot stand others pointing the flaws and misinformation in much of the arguments presented and so attack anyone who doesn't agree with what is being claimed.

The misinformation about farming and food is quite incredible. And tbh is why I discuss this suject first and foremost. I have already had to correct a number of daft assumptions to do with growing crops, animal feed and nutrition. But according to you - that's 'giving out' (sic) about veganisms :rolleyes: I see this stupid argument repeatedly.

Of interest I know several vegetarians and they are good friends. There is no 'giving out' between us. They are more than happy to discuss issues with others. Something I notice a new way of adherents often refuse to do and resort to name calling and gross personalisations such as liking others to the guy Peterson etc as in this thread.

In effect the discussion is often reduced to a rabid personalisations and yes those who engage in this type of pathetic behaviour - ultimately loose their argument by trying to score cheap points and ultimately failing.

The funny thing is that veganism frequently is promoted to others as a diet of 'healthy whole foods' and yet strangely we have rabid support of corporate multinationals producing food that is anything but that. Strange indeed.

silverharp

gozunda wrote: »

The funny thing is that veganism frequently is promoted to others as a diet of 'healthy whole foods' and yet strangely we have rabid support of corporate multinationals producing food that is anything but that. Strange indeed.

what are the chances you could go down to your local fruit and veg shop, buy ingredients and make an Impossible Burger from your home kitchen? :pac:

its a religion for the late capitalistic age for sure.

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

Humm indeed. That is some quite incredible conjecture there. These are my personal opinions btw - take them how you will.

So let me spell it out - I for one certainly do not wish to see any monopoly of the the food industry by large multinationals and that's what detailed in the comment above. And I say that as a consumer of foods. You evidently missed that. Btw framing that question as an IF - you may as well ask the same question - IF the moon was made of cheese - would I eat that!

No I dont care what ****e these interests are producing, how healthy they claim it to be or otherwise. If you somehow think that is "lobbying for farming" then so be it.

This is part of what I find distasteful about much of this discussion. Any dissenting opinion is held up being motivated either purely by money or self interest. It's like some cannot stand others pointing the flaws and misinformation in much of the arguments presented and so attack anyone who doesn't agree with what is being claimed.

The misinformation about farming and food is quite incredible. And tbh is why I discuss this suject first and foremost. I have already had to correct a number of daft assumptions to do with growing crops, animal feed and nutrition. But according to you - that's 'giving out' (sic) about veganisms :rolleyes: I see this stupid argument repeatedly.

Of interest I know several vegetarians and they are good friends. There is no 'giving out' between us. They are more than happy to discuss issues with others. Something I notice a new way of adherents often refuse to do and resort to name calling and gross personalisations such as liking others to the guy Peterson etc as in this thread.

In effect the discussion is often reduced to a rabid personalisations and yes those who engage in this type of pathetic behaviour - ultimately loose their argument by trying to score cheap points and ultimately failing.

The funny thing is that veganism frequently is promoted to others as a diet of 'healthy whole foods' and yet strangely we have rabid support of corporate multinationals producing food that is anything but that. Strange indeed.

OK you've addressed a lot of points I didn't ask about and assumed a lot of things I didn't say.

I think a reader would have to be daft to think it's coincidence that in your posts the vegetarians are always wrong in one way or another. Their arguments are never good. Anything that doesn't suit the meat farming industry is opposed on some level whether it's a point of fact, a subjective opinion based on any old premise. And then there's just jokes which are always aimed at the vegan/vegetarians. Never are these devices aimed against the meat industry arguments. That never needs correction, only defence.

It would be daft to believe you're just an honest broker.

El_Duderino 09

silverharp wrote: »

what are the chances you could go down to your local fruit and veg shop, buy ingredients and make an Impossible Burger from your home kitchen? :pac:

its a religion for the late capitalistic age for sure.

I haven't seen anyone even suggest that. Who are the followers of this religion?

weisses

silverharp wrote: »

its a religion for the late capitalistic age for sure.

as was meat on your plate for 7 days a week ...

I remember my grandparents having meat once or on special occasions twice a week

silverharp

weisses wrote: »

as was meat on your plate for 7 days a week ...

I remember my grandparents having meat once or on special occasions twice a week

its shocking terrible that po' folk have access to good quality food now

weisses

silverharp wrote: »

its shocking terrible that po' folk have access to good quality food now

Ahh yes ... all the drive thru's and take aways on every corner .... a haven for quality food

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK you've addressed a lot of points I didn't ask about and assumed a lot of things I didn't say. I think a reader would have to be daft to think it's coincidence that in your posts the vegetarians are always wrong in one way or another. Their arguments are never good. Anything that doesn't suit the meat farming industry is opposed on some level whether it's a point of fact, a subjective opinion based on any old premise. And then there's just jokes which are always aimed at the vegan/vegetarians. Never are these devices aimed against the meat industry arguments. That never needs correction, only defence. It would be daft to believe you're just an honest broker.

Lol and any reader would be daft to think that anyone would discuss something which they don't believe is worth with discussing.

Btw why the reduction of this discussion to an overt personalisation? - is it that can't discuss the actual issues and instead throw ****e at the poster?

There it is again - any dissenting voice pointing out any incorrect facts regarding farming, growing food or animals is hillarilously an attack on veg*ns!!!!

And yes those actually engaged with farming are generally going to know a whole lot more about growing and producing food than your average plant eater who gets their information from a bunch of YouTube videos and plant food websites.

Anything else in that bottomless bucket to throw at those you disagree with or anyone you dont like pointing out the misinformation?

To paraphrase - It would be daft to believe this is an honest discussion and not just the throwing of crap tbh. Like this ...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110893992&postcount=270

Assetbacked

gozunda wrote: »

Do they? So you are claiming these multinationals farm the animals here in Ireland and milk the cattle etc ? And "Everybody who knows about nutrition" lol. More daft misinformation right there. A healthy balanced diet inclusive of meat and of vegetables etc is the diet recommended btw. As for example.

https://irishheart.ie/your-health/ways-to-live-better/healthy-eating/

https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/food-and-nutrition/eating-well/eatwell-guide-how-to-eat-a-healthy-balanced-diet

So - no not some lifestyle / aspirational plant based only diet based on western economic security and ready access to cheap imported  foodstuffs.

Animal farming remains a lifeline to billions of poor people around the world. It produces high quality foodstuffs which utilise forage which is inedible - to produce something that is. It also uses up the waste products of the human food industry. By products which otherwise result in disposal problems and waste.

So no farming and specifically animal farming is not going to be replaced just because a tiny minority might like it that way. But keep dreaming ...

That's a beautiful way to spin environmental destruction and enslavement/abuse of animals as being necessary. Bravo.

s7ryf3925pivug

Individuals choosing not to eat meat is not enough. Social change to make vegetarian options more financially preferable, and in particular more convenient, more normalized. We absolutely should not be pumping money into beef to prop it up or expanding dairy. We should be much better incentivizing conversion of animal farming to forestry.

gozunda

Assetbacked wrote: »

That's a beautiful way to spin environmental destruction and enslavement/abuse of animals as being necessary. Bravo.

So you are claiming - poor people farming with animals at subsistence or above is de facto "environmental destruction and enslavement of animals" (sic)

There is truly nothing anyone could add to that tbh ...

El_Duderino 09

gozunda wrote: »

Lol and any reader would be daft to think that anyone would discuss something which they don't believe is worth with discussing.

Btw why the reduction of this discussion to an overt personalisation? - is it that can't discuss the actual issues and instead throw ****e at the poster?

There it is again - any dissenting voice pointing out any incorrect facts regarding farming, growing food or animals is hillarilously an "Attack" on veg*ns!!!!

And yes those actually engaged with farming are generally going to know a whole lot more about growing and producing food than your average plant eater who gets their information from a bunch of YouTube videos and plant food websites.

Anything else in that bottomless bucket to throw at those you disagree with or anyone you dont like pointing out the misinformation?

To paraphrase - It would be daft to believe this is an honest discussion and not just the throwing of crap tbh. Like this ...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110893992&postcount=270

2 things. You put the word attack in quotes as if I had said it and you were quoting me. Not so.

And I genuinely think you'd enjoy Peterson. Take that as an insult if you like.

Your posts are exclusively one directional. Always the people who are proposing eating less meat are wrong and in need of you correction or ridicule. Nobody would believe your just honestly correcting misinformation wherever you find it on this topic. You're just disagreeing with people who propose eating less meat.

gozunda

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

2 things. You put the word attack in quotes as if I had said it and you were quoting me. Not so.And I genuinely think you'd enjoy Peterson. Take that as an insult if you like. Your posts are exclusively one directional. Always the people who are proposing eating less meat are wrong and in need of you correction or ridicule. Nobody would believe your just honestly correcting misinformation wherever you find it on this topic. You're just disagreeing with people who propose eating less meat.

Btw that was simply a distillation of the point you made several times - that you bizarrely believe anyone with whom you disagree is 'attacking' (not a direct quote btw) . News is - it's not. And surprise you've just done it again - and that indeed is uni-directional. You can check - the issues of food and farming are the ones I'm primarily interested in and unlike your comments I do not suggest that 'people' are wrong or ridicule them by pointing to some ramdomer on the internet (the same as painted by you as ultra right wing extremist). Facts may be incorrect and I prefer to deal with that rather than mud slinging by insinuation. And btw I dont care what anyone eats - I simply don't like misinformation. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of that.

The facts and references as given in my comments stand and it's quite intersting that you cannot discuss those issues. Anyway I'll leave with this from boards FAQ. I've always found it to be very helpful as a simple pointer for good discussion. But maybe that's just me. I'll leave you at it.

Comment on the post not the poster.

Responding to someone's point with personal attacks, regardless of how "witty" you think they are, is not big or clever. It just comes across, at best, as being an ass and at worst a bully with a small doodah (we mean “mind” of course).

It’s much better to stay on the topic of their post, not on the person who posted it. People will respect you for that, take your opinion more seriously, and you put the ball back in their court to answer your points.

Abuse is tantamount to saying, "You have beaten me with your argument; I can only resort to name calling."

emaherx

Xcellor wrote: »

The world won't go vegan overnight but a few more % here and there , a lowering of demand, less subsidies and herd sizes will drop naturally.

Id say a fraction of the land is required if we aren't growing crops / fodder to feed 90 odd billion land animals and using it instead to feed 6 billion humans instead.

How will herd sizes drop naturally? In a scenario where people go vegan either quickly or slowly farm animals like cattle will need to be exterminated. If they are allowed to go wild they will naturally increase in numbers and become pests on farm land and will eventually require regular culling.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

How will herd sizes drop naturally? In a scenario where people go vegan either quickly or slowly farm animals like cattle will need to be exterminated. If they are allowed to go wild they will naturally increase in numbers and become pests on farm land and will eventually require regular culling.

They’ll be exterminated or eaten. It’s not rocket science.

ILoveYourVibes

I am a vegetarian.

I believe in animal rights but to a point.

What i don't get is the recent push for us to empathize with animals as if they were a member of the human species and of the same needs. The recent push for us to empathize with animals on par with humans.

Show me a kitten pick i go to mush. But honestly i can't compare them to the needs of humans.

The preservation of jobs for farmers etc. Jobs that they love doing etc. A job we all probably know very little about.

And when people say well farmers do this to their animals or that. I think well yeah that's not nice but well we buy and sell animals they are property. They are not humans.

They will never and SHOULD never for their own good and our own good be considered equal to human lives.


I just don't get it.

As for the environment etc. Researchers estimate global carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel sources, which represent roughly 90 percent of all emissions from human activities.As a percent of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, methane emissions represent approximately 10 percent of all emissions and are dwarfed by carbon dioxide, which represents more than 80 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions.

Farming actually preserves a lot of countryside and makes places nicer to live.

And yes we should make it as pleasant and suitable for the animals are we are able according to whatever the country we are in can manage.

And as for veggies and vegans etc the nice ones are welcome at my eco friendly house.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They’ll be exterminated or eaten. It’s not rocket science.

So kill and eat bad.... Kill and don't eat good?

Really makes sense

ILoveYourVibes

emaherx wrote: »

So kill and eat bad.... Kill and don't eat good?

Really makes sense

Why is there suddenly a Taboo about killing animals?

I mean we have to.

TBH animal abuse gets more social media space than human rights abuses.

They remove organs forcible from people in china with no anesthetic. Its never in the press.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

So kill and eat bad.... Kill and don't eat good?

Really makes sense

So keep growing the herd indefinitely then?

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So keep growing the herd indefinitely then?

With farming herd sizes can and are controlled 53% of Irish suckler farms have less than 10 cows. I'd be a fan of more extensive farming. But you want to iradicate all farm animals

Yet you said this?

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some animals are more equal than others and I don't think that's right.

silverharp

weisses wrote: »

Ahh yes ... all the drive thru's and take aways on every corner .... a haven for quality food

they have access to good quality and poor quality food, what is your point?

ILoveYourVibes

Originally Posted by Thelonious Monk View Post
Some animals are more equal than others and I don't think that's right.

No they don't. Its just some humans are more attached to some animals than others and so as not to upset those humans we respect their feelings.

That is the truth.


All domesticated animals belong to humans but we have a different relationship with some than others. And its the relationship that we have actually accorded rights and respect to really.

We have respected a human's right to feel deeply about animals and in order not to upset such people we treat certain animals differently.

And of course certain animals we ourselves love.

We respect farmers as we should and try to respect their needs.

Unfortunately some people project their relationship with their pets onto farming animals. Its not often what is best for these animals.

And its not best for the countryside.

Saying that if the world goes vegan i won't go and march against it etc. Shrug.