Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

auspicious · 06-05-2019 09:01PM

anewme wrote: »

I’m slowly switching from animal products. I don’t eat meat anymore but still eat fish currently so far from vegan. My friend has rescue hens, so I use those eggs only.

Hens required a lot of calcium to produce their eggs. If they are lacking, they should be given a fortified feed. It can take a toll on their bones. You can also feed the crushed and baked shells back to them.

anewme · 06-05-2019 09:18PM

auspicious wrote: »

Hens required a lot of calcium to produce their eggs. If they are lacking, they should be given a fortified feed. It can take a toll on their bones. You can also feed the crushed and baked shells back to them.

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?

When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

gozunda · 07-05-2019 01:45AM

anewme wrote: »

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

It is always good to produce or source your food locally where possible. Many of the issues of food produced at a distance are valid for both veg*n and normal diets.

auspicious · 07-05-2019 02:31AM

anewme wrote: »

When he git then, they had been in a battery farm, and they were scaldy yokes with no feathers, now they are beautiful, cheeky with a personality of their own. He keeps sheep too, they eventually go to market. But they have a good life in the interim. I think if I knew all animals were treated like that, I might not have given up meat, or maybe not, but there’s too many questions over quality of produce, that it’s a race to the bottom. How can a chicken retail for 2.99, shortcuts have been taken somewhere?

When I did eat meat, I used to buy my Xmas Turkey from a local free range farm. The farmer told me he paid more for the chicks, than a frozen turkey retailed for.

My earlier post regarding calcium (maybe your friend already knew this idk) was some advice for the welfare of the animals if it's insisted upon, and only if, consuming the eggs of the rescued birds.
As a vegan I am not about animal welfare. I see welfare as a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products.

Even though the hens were rescued and enjoy a nice life now, taking the eggs to eat just continues the purpose they were bred for. It is still benefiting from the initial harm.
Having these 'happy' eggs may and probably lessens intolerance to having eggs when eating out, where those eggs are a product of mass production and the terrible conditions that entails.
What I'm trying to say is an exception invites more exceptions.
Imo they are fruits of the poisionous tree
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree&ved=2ahUKEwiR2rPmnIjiAhWiuXEKHanoC1QQFjADegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw3oK7ZN4BTOsdUJxyWT165I

I know you are transitioning as you said and good luck but this post is just to fully expain the thoughts behind what I said.

kowloon · 07-05-2019 02:54AM

I'll be first in line for a synthetic or plant based meat substitute that tastes the same, until then I'll continue eating meat. If I can't have milk in my tea I might die.

gozunda · 07-05-2019 08:23AM

auspicious wrote: »

My earlier post regarding calcium (maybe your friend already knew this idk) was some advice for the welfare of the animals if it's insisted upon, and only if, consuming the eggs of the rescued birds.
As a vegan I am not about animal welfare. I see welfare as a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products.
Even though the hens were rescued and enjoy a nice life now, taking the eggs to eat just continues the purpose they were bred for. It is still benefiting from the initial harm.

I would strongly disagree that the issue that animal welfare somehow should not be supported. Many veg*n campaigners use issues of alleged poor welfare to promote their ideas. Video footage (and I'm thinking of the fairly recent invasion of a pig farm in the UK by a group of campaigners) was broadcast using highly emotive imagery and language. However the video was not created with the aim of improving the conditions or welfare of these animals. Rather the animals became bit players in a drama played out to promote the aims of veganism.

Animal welfare is very important no matter whatever anyone choses to eat imo. Welfare is not "a means to make consumers more comfortable consuming animal products". Animal welfare is enshrined in law and provides for the proper treatment and care of animals both domestic and wild. Turning the tables and blaming farmers or others for poor animal welfare conditions and then not supporting animal welfare is at best contradictory and makes no sense whatsoever.

Dakota Dan · 07-05-2019 08:29AM

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

People who get annoyed about the increasing popularity of vegetarianism/veganism are every bit as tiresome as militant vegans.

It’s isn't a problem because 84% of vegetarians and vegans go back to eating mea.

Dakota Dan · 07-05-2019 08:35AM

Still waters wrote: »

It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming

In truth we would probably all be a lot healthier if we cut down the amount of meat and ate more veg and fruit

Farming a small farm here so I'm all for more money for meat but I don't see a healthy future in the mass production of animals for the slaughter houses

Your farming in Ireland and you don’t know what we call slaughter houses in Ireland?

Dakota Dan · 07-05-2019 09:26AM

Pkiernan wrote: »

It's mostly the socially retarded and those on the lower end of the IQ scale that slag off veggies and vegans.

That comment doesn’t do your intelligence any favours.

silverharp · 07-05-2019 10:22AM

auspicious wrote: »

Personally I only take veg1 supplement from the Vegan Soceity. It contains the D3, B12, and iodine I need regularly, amongst others.
I get my omega 3 from walnuts, kidney beans, chia seeds, flax seeds and many other sources.
Selenium from brazil nuts, chia seeds, brown rice etc. You can also get B12 from fortified foods and nooch.

70% of Europeans and infants worldwide are deficient in Vit D.
2 billion people are deficient in iodine worldwide.
Ireland is one of the most selenium deficient countries in the world.

Ruminants obtain B12 from anaerobic bateria in soil but to properly synthesize it they require cobalt supplements as many soils are low in it.
Cobalt B12 supplements for cattle include selenium amongst others.

Adults over the age of 50 who have atrophic gastritis (their stomach isn’t making as much acid) may not absorb B12 as well. This accounts for the majority of deficiency in older adults. Because atrophic gastritis may be relatively common, a B12 supplement or fortified foods are recommended by the Institute of Medicine for all adults over age 50, regardless of diet.
- nutritionstudies.org

It just add another level of complication , if there were 2 fruits that contained mince beef and eggs they would be super foods in the vegan world.

Here is the thing, its an experiment , there aren't 3 generations of cradle to grave vegans. Most vegans drift in an out in adulthood , had mothers that weren't vegan.

auspicious · 07-05-2019 11:28AM

silverharp wrote: »

It just add another level of complication , if there were 2 fruits that contained mince beef and eggs they would be super foods in the vegan world.

Here is the thing, its an experiment , there aren't 3 generations of cradle to grave vegans. Most vegans drift in an out in adulthood , had mothers that weren't vegan.

Eggs for example, if they are not even allowed to be labelled healthy by regulatory bodies today because of their high levels of saturated fat and especially cholesterol then I'm sure the fruit hypothesis doesn't work.

There's good anecdotal evidence of happy healthy newborn vegan babies.
The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest organisation of professionals holding undergraduate and advanced degrees in nutrition and dietetics and includes many many meat eaters I'm sure say a well planned and balanced vegan diet is adequate for all stages of life.

gozunda · 07-05-2019 12:05PM

auspicious wrote: »

Eggs for example, if they are not even allowed to be labelled healthy by regulatory bodies today because of their high levels of saturated fat and especially cholesterol then I'm sure the fruit hypothesis doesn't work.There's good anecdotal evidence of happy healthy newborn vegan babies.The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics the worlds largest organisation of professionals holding undergraduate and advanced degrees in nutrition and dietetics and includes many many meat eaters I'm sure say a well planned and balanced vegan diet is adequate for all stages of life.

Seriously auspicious you need to put down the booklet...

In the US - regulations on foodstuffs prohibit the use of endorsements on food. End of story.

The rest if what you wrote about eggs is untrue and misinformation.

This from the NHS website

Eggs

Eggs and your diet
Eggs are nutritious – they're a source of:

protein
vitamin D
vitamin Avitamin B2
vitamin B12
folate
iodine

How many eggs is it safe to eat?
There is no recommended limit on how many eggs people should eat.

Eggs can be enjoyed as part of a healthy, balanced diet, but it's best to cook them without adding salt or fat. For example:
boiled or poached, without added salt scrambled without butter and using low-fat milk instead of cream

Eggs and cholesterol

Although eggs contain some cholesterol, the amount of saturated fat we eat has more of an effect on the amount of cholesterol in our blood than the cholesterol we get from eating eggs.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/eggs-nutrition/

You may also want to detail that the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics is a private lobby group in the US which was co founded by member of the Church of Seventh Day Aventists who promote veg*n diets as part of their belief system.

The advisory about diets you include above comes from a paper the authors of which are veg*n (one is also a seventh day adventist).

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 12:45PM

Couldn’t care what they do. You want to be vegan fine. No problem I won’t judge. But what the fück gives them the right to judge me on what I eat? That’s my biggest problem with them.

Thelonious Monk · 07-05-2019 12:47PM

dodderangler wrote: »

Couldn’t care what they do. You want to be vegan fine. No problem I won’t judge. But what the fück gives them the right to judge me on what I eat? That’s my biggest problem with them.

You don't care what they do but you have a big problem with them.

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 03:52PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You don't care what they do but you have a big problem with them.

Exactly. I don’t care what a vegan does. But don’t judge me on what I eat. That’s my only issue. As I said. I don’t care.

B0jangles · 07-05-2019 03:58PM

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 04:07PM

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

And what about us who hunt our own meat. According to vegans we are the worst.
Satan I was called. And a homicidal maniac.
Best one was I am a future murderer.

silverharp · 07-05-2019 04:13PM

B0jangles wrote: »

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan but even I've noticed the crazy defensiveness/aggression some posters here have whenever the topic comes up.

Vegans and vegetarians aren't come up to you and slap the burger out of your hands; you're totally free to eat as much meat and dairy as you want. At the same time, no-one is obliged to buy your produce just because you happen to be a meat/dairy farmer.

No-one owes you a living.

However vegan influencers on Instagram and Youtube are a curse often promoting crazy to venerable teenagers, also vegans don't just leave well enough alone, they are like the "Russian bots" of the food world. If they stuck to an ethical position you could take or leave it on their merits but they seem to have a disproportionate influence when it comes to talking about food in terms of health.

silverharp · 07-05-2019 04:14PM

dodderangler wrote: »

And what about us who hunt our own meat. According to vegans we are the worst.
Satan I was called. And a homicidal maniac.
Best one was I am a future murderer.

being called a carnist is another one

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 04:19PM

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

Thelonious Monk · 07-05-2019 04:25PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

That is just heartbreaking. To think the poor things are shipped around like that to be treated horribly and slaughtered for veal. Who the f*ck would even want to eat veal?

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 04:26PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That is just heartbreaking. To think the poor things are shipped around like that to be treated horribly and slaughtered for veal. Who the f*ck would even want to eat veal?

Poor calf who couldn't even walk after being stamped on. Disgusting excuse for human beings.

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 04:50PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Seems a fitting place to post this.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/ispca-calls-for-immediate-suspension-of-calf-exports-38087589.html

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

Thelonious Monk · 07-05-2019 04:54PM

dodderangler wrote: »

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

And people keep saying it's the vegans who are the ones acting up. From what I see it's meat eaters who have a problem with other people's diets, not vegetarians and vegans.

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 04:55PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

And people keep saying it's the vegans who are the ones acting up. From what I see it's meat eaters who have a problem with other people's diets, not vegetarians and vegans.

Yeah because meat eaters are out there protesting and screaming at people.
Interesting

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 04:56PM

dodderangler wrote: »

So you’re against guns and against eating meat.
Wow you sound like loads of fun at a party.
Guess we can serve pigs in blankets even though it’s dead meat at least it’s gonna be warm and cosy.

And you like guns in teachers hands and animal cruelty? Shock horror.

No need to bring my views in from other threads because you cant come up with a coherent argument for either. Your posts are ridiculous at best.

Thelonious Monk · 07-05-2019 04:58PM

dodderangler wrote: »

Yeah because meat eaters are out there protesting and screaming at people.
Interesting

Are they the ones who were shouting abuse at the Taoiseach last week?

dodderangler · 07-05-2019 04:59PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

And you like guns in teachers hands and animal cruelty? Shock horror.

No need to bring my views in from other threads because you cant come up with a coherent argument for either. Your posts are ridiculous at best.

Who said I like animal cruelty. Show me where I said that??
Because not once didn’t I say it. And yes I approve of it. If it stop soon some idiot with a gun shooting up a school then yes give the teachers protection to stop them.
Seriously you have me grinning every time you reply. It’s one laugh after another. Lack off meat In your diet may be the result of your posts being hysterical

Deebles McBeebles · 07-05-2019 05:06PM

dodderangler wrote: »

Who said I like animal cruelty. Show me where I said that??
Because not once didn’t I say it. And yes I approve of it. If it stop soon some idiot with a gun shooting up a school then yes give the teachers protection to stop them.
Seriously you have me grinning every time you reply. It’s one laugh after another. Lack off meat In your diet may be the result of your posts being hysterical

I don't think you're grinning D. Not exactly the vibe you give off.

auspicious · 07-05-2019 05:07PM

As vegans we don't see the difference between cats and dogs and domesticated farm animals. Animals of all types are kept by people as pets obviously.
All animals have the capacity to show love and be pets.
(And no, I wouldn't let a crocodile sit on my lap.)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WYiQamYK9eA

Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

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