Peter Mcverrys support for syringe criminal.

SouthDublin6w

El_Bee wrote: »

They're clearly not working.

Clearly not working? Can you please elaborate. What about the thousands that get clean and sober within these services.

El_Bee

KikiLaRue wrote: »

If the government took a portion of the money they spend on prosecuting and incarcerating drug users and invested it in rehabilitation, it would. Read up on what happened when they did exactly that in Portugal.

I did after the JRE with Johan Hari, but I'm still skeptical. Even if it does work over there, as I've already said, reform in this country of any system, health, education, judiciary, is almost impossible, I can't see how this would somehow be implemented.

Squatter

KikiLaRue wrote: »

If the government took a portion of the money they spend on prosecuting and incarcerating drug users and invested it in rehabilitation, it would. Read up on what happened when they did exactly that in Portugal.

They don't prosecute or incarcerate drug users per se, they prosecute and incarcerate criminals.

El_Bee

SouthDublin6w wrote: »

Clearly not working? Can you please elaborate. What about the thousands that get clean and sober within these services.

Drug use is higher than ever as are drug related offences.

KikiLaRue

El_Bee wrote: »

I did after the JRE with Johan Hari, but I'm still skeptical. Even if it does work over there, as I've already said, reform in this country of any system, health, education, judiciary, is almost impossible, I can't see how this would somehow be implemented.

So, your thinking is "it might not work so let's not try"?

I have a fear that the government would not resource such a programme properly to be honest, but having seen the success of the Portuguese model I'm not at all skeptical that it can work.

SouthDublin6w

El_Bee wrote: »

Drug use is higher than ever as are drug related offences.

So that means Rehabilitation services aren't working? How many active addicts have used services before for them to of failed. How many addicts relapsed after getting clean through a rehabilitation service?

KikiLaRue

El_Bee wrote: »

Drug use is higher than ever as are drug related offences.

Source?

El_Bee

KikiLaRue wrote: »

So, your thinking is "it might not work so let's not try"?

I have a fear that the government would not resource such a programme properly to be honest, but having seen the success of the Portuguese model I'm not at all skeptical that it can work.

I'm not saying don't try, I'm saying you'll have as much luck implementing as you would with Judicial, health or education reform.

KikiLaRue

El_Bee wrote: »

I'm not saying don't try, I'm saying you'll have as much luck implementing as you would with Judicial, health or education reform.

Micheal Martin's biggest success was introducing the smoking ban when he was Minister for Health. Everyone said it wouldn't work. Everyone said the plastic bag levy wouldn't work. There are always naysayers.

Progress takes time, and is generally accomplished by people who believe change is possible.

El_Bee

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Source?

Unlike some, I don't do the "it's not my job to educate you" bs (even though I think the numbers from Portugal are very wishy washy.)


https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/
https://www.citywide.ie/drug-use-in-ireland/facts.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/garda-bosses-call-for-action-over-ever-increasing-drugs-war-922719.html




if you want more open a tab and google.

justincasey

El_Bee wrote: »

They're clearly not working.

They certainly do work i have seen vast amount of people come through these services and turn there life around

Dravokivich

El_Bee wrote: »

They're clearly not working.

The issue with most of those schemes is they need someone to be sober before getting involved. Its very hard for someone struggling to acheive that. There are other issues too, such as the mental health act, is setup to reject people who are identified as dealing with addiction issues. Even though most of the time, there's an underlying cause that leads to the addiction.

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’ve heard he also pays fines out of charity money for low life’s.
.

Lots of charities do this.
It's the reason I won't give cash to St Vincent de Paul at all.

SouthDublin6w

bubblypop wrote: »

Lots of charities do this.
It's the reason I won't give cash to St Vincent de Paul at all.

Any sources to say this?

KikiLaRue

El_Bee wrote: »

Unlike some, I don't do the "it's not my job to educate you" bs (even though I think the numbers from Portugal are very wishy washy.)


https://www.thejournal.ie/drugs-ireland-statistics-4222407-Sep2018/
https://www.citywide.ie/drug-use-in-ireland/facts.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/garda-bosses-call-for-action-over-ever-increasing-drugs-war-922719.html




if you want more open a tab and google.

As I expected, those links don't confirm the point you were making at all. The entire thread is specifically about heroin users - if you want to say "well loads of teens are smoking weed so I'm right", fair enough, fair play to you.

Meanwhile, back on the topic of opiates:

Trends
The following trends were observed in the study results:
• There has been a slight decrease in opiate use both
inside and outside of Dublin when compared to 2006.
• The rate of opiate use among males and females aged
15—24 years has continued to decline.
• More than one-half (60%) of the State’s opiate users are
in the 35—64 age group, compared to less than one-third
in 2006, suggesting a definite ageing cohort effect.

Source: https://www.hrb.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Drugnet64.pdf

SouthDublin6w

SouthDublin6w wrote: »

Any sources to say this?

I have no idea, but fairly sure if you ask St Vincent de Paul they will tell you they do.
It's not a secret

Hal3000

Cassandra Red Slammer wrote: »

I find it strange that you are focused 100% on the scumbag yet are angry because you perceive that not enough focus is on the victim...

Then you go to mandatory minimum sentences to execution in a matter of words. That's emotion talking. There's no logic involved what so ever.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that your radical methodology would work?

Do you have any evidence that rehabilitation programs work ?

KikiLaRue

Hal3000 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that rehabilitation programs work ?

Google "Results of Portugal decriminalising drugs"

Hal3000

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Google "Results of Portugal decriminalising drugs"

My response has nothing to do with drugs. Mine is about repeat offending. I don't think drug users should be jailed for minor drugs offences, but if they commit violent crimes then sorry it should he harsh sentences. Our rehabilitation programs are not working, hence scrotes with 300 plus convictions.

KikiLaRue

Hal3000 wrote: »

My response has nothing to do with drugs. Mine is about repeat offending.

In that case we are talking about two different kinds of rehabilitation.

Hal3000 wrote: »

I don't think drug users should be jailed for minor drugs offences, but if they commit violent crimes then sorry it should he harsh sentences.

I agree. I'm mainly talking about criminalising addiction itselt i.e. possession and other minor related crimes.

Hal3000 wrote: »

Our rehabilitation programs are not working, hence scrotes with 300 plus convictions.

So we're not talking about drug and alcohol rehab here, we're talking about how prison prepares you for going back into the real world as a proper law-abiding citizen. You're probably right that these are not functioning as well as they could be.

SouthDublin6w

bubblypop wrote: »

I have no idea, but fairly sure if you ask St Vincent de Paul they will tell you they do.
It's not a secret

I'm gonna let you in on a secret, SVDP (Who give clothes and food stamps) and De Paul Ireland (Homeless agency) are 2 different bodies. I work for one, neither of them pay fines for clients, and it's absurd you think they do.

El_Duderino 09

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Nah I’d rather he rots it be honest.

Well this is it. If you care about crime you’ll be glad this guy is getting off drugs. Drugs lead to crime so that should be a simple realisation.

If you care more about seeing the criminal rot than lowering crime rates then I think you’re not part of the solution.

If the criminal is coming off drugs then they deserve credit for that. I’m pretty sure I’ve never done anything as difficult as weaning myself off hard drugs. He still did the crime so he got a 3 year custodial sentence. What’s the problem here’s?

El_Duderino 09

El_Bee wrote: »

Drug use is higher than ever as are drug related offences.

Not In Portugal they aren’t. They’re falling.

And the funny thing was that when police were freed from clearing the streets of petty drug users, they had more time to get the know the law abiding people in the community. There was a massive increase in reports of petty crimes like bike theft because people actually started reporting smaller crimes because they were more connected with the police and the police in turn had time to deal with smaller crimes.

Looks win win to me. But the “lock em up” brigade won’t see the value in that at all.

SouthDublin6w

SouthDublin6w wrote: »

I'm gonna let you in on a secret, SVDP (Who give clothes and food stamps) and De Paul Ireland (Homeless agency) are 2 different bodies. I work for one, neither of them pay fines for clients, and it's absurd you think they do.

I know that they do. I have seen the cheques. I'd imagine it's at local level.
You should ask in work, I'm sure they will tell you they do.

KikiLaRue

bubblypop wrote: »

I know that they do. I have seen the cheques. I'd imagine it's at local level.
You should ask in work, I'm sure they will tell you they do.

I've never heard of SVP giving cash for anything, let alone court fines. And there would be outrage in my hometown if it happened, no one would ever give them a penny.

KikiLaRue

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I've never heard of SVP giving cash for anything, let alone court fines. And there would be outrage in my hometown if it happened, no one would ever give them a penny.

This is not a secret. They don't give cash to people to pay off the fines, they pay the court office or Garda station directly, by cheque.
I was shocked nearly 20 years ago when I first saw it happen.

begbysback

Hal3000 wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that rehabilitation programs work ?

Also read up on Norway recidivism rate. Both the Portugal and Norway approaches should have their own sticky threads on here - might help keep wheeliebins blood pressure down

El_Bee

KikiLaRue wrote: »

As I expected, those links don't confirm the point you were making at all. The entire thread is specifically about heroin users - if you want to say "well loads of teens are smoking weed so I'm right", fair enough, fair play to you.

Meanwhile, back on the topic of opiates:



Source: https://www.hrb.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Drugnet64.pdf

What a snide way to talk to someone. Even in the study you offered it states "none of the slight decreases observed were statistically significant.". You're the one making it a drug issue, what we should be talking about, is this man mugged someone, potentially changing their life, and and he gets brought in front of a judge and the "battling addiction" card gets him a light sentence. You and your pals are welcome to this thread, just don't hurt yourselves slapping each others backs too hard.

KikiLaRue

El_Bee wrote: »

What a snide way to talk to someone. Even in the study you offered it states "none of the slight decreases observed were statistically significant.". You're the one making it a drug issue, what we should be talking about, is this man mugged someone, potentially changing their life, and and he gets brought in front of a judge and the "battling addiction" card gets him a light sentence. You and your pals are welcome to this thread, just don't hurt yourselves slapping each others backs too hard.

Ummm the OP made drug use central to the thread?

He didn't get a light sentence. Three years with an additional two suspended is standard for a mugging with the threat of violence.

You're just making up a narrative that suits you now, because the points you were trying to make have been successfully rebutted.

hatrickpatrick

Everyone has the right to character witnesses in fairness. If the guy had been let off I'd have been pissed, but in this case McVerry merely gave his own insight and the judge sentenced the guy. Don't see the problem.