First A4 race Saturday

Luxxis

Hi All

Wanted to do at least one A4 cycling Ireland race before the end of the season and there's one on Saturday. Ronnie Coates up in Roundwood.

Have been doing the club racing and managed them fine.(First year racing) Wont win it but should get round OK. Last years pace as about 36kph. I would add I know the roads up there backwards, i cycle them all the time.


But looking for some advice on in race fueling. Its 58k with a rolling start with about 650m of elevation, i know the road really well and they mostly short 5-6% climbs a 3k drag about 2%.

Starts at 1.30. So planning to have some porridge and toast with peanut butter which is my usual pre ride(long ride) breakfast.

But for the race would you go for gels? Or just some bars. I have SIS Go Hydro Tables and use them all the time.

Any advice welcome and any general advice on a first A4 race welcome.

Thanks

dahat

For racing I go with the following.

Caffeine gel 40.mins before start
Bag of Tesco Jelly Babies in a jersey poclet
1 caffeine gel per lap or every 15/20km or so.

I have found the jelly babies easier eat racing as bars etc tend to be fiddly & troublesome at 40km speeds plus.
Make sure you have your gel consumed well before you need it.

The above has been discovered through trial & error which you should try nail over time.

Luxxis

dahat wrote: »

For racing I go with the following.

Caffeine gel 40.mins before start
Bag of Tesco Jelly Babies in a jersey poclet
1 caffeine gel per lap or every 15/20km or so.

I have found the jelly babies easier eat racing as bars etc tend to be fiddly & troublesome at 40km speeds plus.
Make sure you have your gel consumed well before you need it.

The above has been discovered through trial & error which you should try nail over time.

Sounds like a plan. Anything special the night before?

dahat

Standard meal, nothing different or extreme than your normal Saturday evening meal.

Pack your bag & gear Friday as arriving missing stuff will throw you on the day. You'll be nervous enough without forgetting the nessecary bits.

Luxxis

dahat wrote: »

Standard meal, nothing different or extreme than your normal Saturday evening meal.

Pack your bag & gear Friday as arriving missing stuff will throw you on the day. You'll be nervous enough without forgetting the nessecary bits.

That's great, appreciate the advice dahat

Hopefully all goes well :P

strmin

It's only 1.5 hour race. Eat something small before the race, drink plenty during and you'll be fine. Don't be one of those A4 riders who get dropped while looking for food in a back pocket 10 minutes into the race.

Last year, my last A4 race, only small bunch was left for the sprint, so most riders got dropped. Just look at Strava flybys. Stay in top 10 from the start. Don't be fooled by 36-37km/h average, it's tough enough course.

CramCycle

I'd agree, no need for gels. There are one or two bumps before the finish line that are really short but easily 10%. Roads are good but not smooth so drag the average speed down. If your holding in there in limit or Semi liMit in most of the Dublin leagues you should have no issue. Weather is predicted dry and 18degrees, with little wind so it will feel warm, suncream and water are a must. Open races tend to be more conservative in my experience than club leagues. Eat as normal the Night before and morning off, shouldn't be a huge need to top up reserves for a race which is probably similar in length to club league ones at this time of year.

CramCycle

Also , go from the gun and break your competitors early :pac:

Luxxis

CramCycle wrote: »

Also , go from the gun and break your competitors early :pac:

If only

CramCycle

Luxxis wrote: »

If only

If it's your first A4 race, they won't know you, less of a chance of a chase. You don't need to be better than them, they just have to think you are.

JimmiesRustled

No need for food on the bike as A4 racing is generally over pretty quickly. Maybe have a carb powder in one of your bottles.

In almost contradiction to the above, I know it's a short amount of time but bring 2 bottles.

As an aside, if you do decide to bring gels or some other form of food, please put the wrapper back in your pocket. Don't litter.

Inquitus

Aye not long enough to really require fueling, just ensure you have a couple of water bottles, one with some carb powder in it perhaps. Just a decent breakfast to make sure you are well fueled at the start.

Miklos

I'd go against what a lot of the lads are saying and say bring at least one gel. Better to be looking at it than looking for it.

68 lost souls

If you arent used to gels, especially caffeine gels be careful as they can play havoc with your gut. I cant stomach caffeine gels but have been ok on regular gels for the most part.

Finnrocco

Don't do anything out of the ordinary food and drink wise i.e. don't try this new gel that you have never tried before, as it may not agree with your stomach. Make sure bottle cages are tight enough that bottles wont pop out if there is any rough road on the circuit.

Check bike day before i.e. do a few efforts of a couple of seconds just to make sure the cranks / bars etc. don't fall off when you get out of saddle. Check tyres in detail for flints, bits of glass etc. and remove them if any found.

Don't wear those new pair of shorts you bought yesterday - there might be a seam / label etc. that will rub and irritate you - use tried and tested gear.

Get to the front on the start line, so you are in the top 20 or so when it kicks off.

Enjoy it, it will be great crack, and give us a report on Monday!

CramCycle

Miklos wrote: »

I'd go against what a lot of the lads are saying and say bring at least one gel. Better to be looking at it than looking for it.

68 lost souls wrote: »

If you arent used to gels, especially caffeine gels be careful as they can play havoc with your gut. I cant stomach caffeine gels but have been ok on regular gels for the most part.

Both fair points, I suppose it depends on what you've been doing in your club league, if you haven't been taking gels before, don't bring one, taking one when your running low and it doesn't agree will turn your stomach. If you take them all the time anyway, have one there.

Luxxis

Thanks all

timbel

How did you get on today?
Did the earlier race and it was fairly warm from halfway through - didnt envy the A4s starting at 1.30!

Luxxis

timbel wrote: »

How did you get on today?
Did the earlier race and it was fairly warm from halfway through - didnt envy the A4s starting at 1.30!

Worse, we started at 1.50. Bit of a delay with something.

Yeah went really well. Finished just outside the top 10. Got boxed in on the sprint and think i could have finished further up if i had a better position, but its all a learning curve.

Advice here was spot on. Just had my usual brekkie and nothing during the race, and just one water bottle. Stayed pretty much in the top 10-15, dropping back a few time but I knew the course and made in up on the downhill sections to save energy. CramCycle mentioned its not as tough as club race and that was spot on, had way more legs at the finish than a club race.

Already looking for the next one

But thanks to all for the advice, really helped me out.

Taxuser1

58km/90 minute race you should still be drinking and eating in this weather, less in colder weather. Depletion of your go to source for immediate energy glycogen/carbohydrates, can be race dependent. So if the race was intense at the start, or you felt it was, add in the heat and the length and your race, without topping up on your carbs during the race, you can pay for it at the business end. That was a late starting race yesterday so if your breakfast was all you had, let’s say at 9 am, unless you had another small meal then by race time you’re already carb depleted, just from walking around, adrenaline, etc. body processes 45-60 grams of carb per hour but more with intensity. Glycogen stores could be well short depending on your eating week as well.

Someone said taking an energy gel an hour before the race. I’m not sure that’s best practice, the effect of the gels is to raise glucose levels which raises insulin and it can cause more stomach upset taken that far out. I’d have it 5-10 minutes before the start of the race, it shouldn’t cause that issue and you get the benefit in the race at race intensity. Normal drinking of a carb drink over the next hour and maybe two gels over 90 minutes might then be your starting point to ensure you’re getting the primary source of energy at the right times. But like everyone said, experiment yourself, you’ll know what’s right for you.

TGD

Taxuser1 wrote: »

58km/90 minute race you should still be drinking and eating in this weather, less in colder weather. Depletion of your go to source for immediate energy glycogen/carbohydrates, can be race dependent. So if the race was intense at the start, or you felt it was, add in the heat and the length and your race, without topping up on your carbs during the race, you can pay for it at the business end. That was a late starting race yesterday so if your breakfast was all you had, let’s say at 9 am, unless you had another small meal then by race time you’re already carb depleted, just from walking around, adrenaline, etc. body processes 45-60 grams of carb per hour but more with intensity. Glycogen stores could be well short depending on your eating week as well.

Someone said taking an energy gel an hour before the race. I’m not sure that’s best practice, the effect of the gels is to raise glucose levels which raises insulin and it can cause more stomach upset taken that far out. I’d have it 5-10 minutes before the start of the race, it shouldn’t cause that issue and you get the benefit in the race at race intensity. Normal drinking of a carb drink over the next hour and maybe two gels over 90 minutes might then be your starting point to ensure you’re getting the primary source of energy at the right times. But like everyone said, experiment yourself, you’ll know what’s right for you.

Yes, this advice is based on good evidence (even though I would differ slightly on the intake), unlike a lot of what you get on fora like this.

Taking in no nutrition during a 90-minute high-intensity race is just not physioloically optimal.

This is the only bit that I would disagree with: "But like everyone said, experiment yourself, you’ll know what’s right for you."

This doesn't work for many people - that's why they get coaches and good advice from others.

The difference is often quite marginal of course, and perhaps not even noticable. So, you may not 'feel' any difference between taking the best nutrition and no nutrition.

However, the difference between first and tenth can also be quite marginal, and it's fine detail like optimal nutrition that can help to make up the difference.

CramCycle

And for some people, that isn't optimal. Everyone is different, I followed all the guidelines and talked to coaches and strong riders. Nothing worked. I run on empty now and it works for me, I am still increasing in power right to the line Everyone is different, eating mid race, gels, everything, just made me vomit and crash out. At A4 level it's short enough for me, most are not much more than club league. At A3 I will have to but not at A4, that works for some, not for others.

Taxuser1

CramCycle wrote: »

And for some people, that isn't optimal. Everyone is different, I followed all the guidelines and talked to coaches and strong riders. Nothing worked. I run on empty now and it works for me, I am still increasing in power right to the line Everyone is different, eating mid race, gels, everything, just made me vomit and crash out. At A4 level it's short enough for me, most are not much more than club league. At A3 I will have to but not at A4, that works for some, not for others.

You seem an interesting case! Wheelsuckin sprinter 😠???

What is your eating routine pre race in the days and hours before and maybe after?

How do you feel after a race recovery wise?

Race the the other night was 42 kms in 59 minutes and according to metrics I burned over 2500 calories in that time. I had a gel 5 mins before we started and a half bottle of torq. I had eaten pasta at lunch, nothing else that day. So on the day I hadn't eaten enough but yet the race went fine. Presumably I tapped into the week of glycogen for remaining energy needs or used some alternative source like fat. Maybe you work off little as well because you've it already stored or use fat for fuel? But that consumption or lack of may not work for everyone. Anything past an hour I'm eating more.

I find out fascinating. I've got the bonk after 90 minutes trainimg which I couldn't explain and I've raced 4 hours on a bottle and a bar. Never makes sense!

CramCycle

Taxuser1 wrote: »

You seem an interesting case! Wheelsuckin sprinter ???

Not a sprinter, have to go early but can hold and increase the pace over a long distance. I have a jump but no sprint.

What is your eating routine pre race in the days and hours before and maybe after?

Never any different to a normal day, usually a cup of coffee in the morning, maybe a snack if I feel hungry before the race but often nothing

How do you feel after a race recovery wise?

Pretty good actually, i get hungry about an hour later but nothing crazy

Race the the other night was 42 kms in 59 minutes and according to metrics I burned over 2500 calories in that time. I had a gel 5 mins before we started and a half bottle of torq. I had eaten pasta at lunch, nothing else that day. So on the day I hadn't eaten enough but yet the race went fine. Presumably I tapped into the week of glycogen for remaining energy needs or used some alternative source like fat. Maybe you work off little as well because you've it already stored or use fat for fuel? But that consumption or lack of may not work for everyone. Anything past an hour I'm eating more.

My best race of the season so far was a club race on the Newbridge GP circuit, 45km so shorter than a typical A4 race but I broke away from a group of strong A4 and a few decent A3s. I stayed away on my own for half the course before sitting up, and then taking off on Boston Hill and getting into a four man break away where they really put the hammer down with the three of the four strongest men in that group involved. I hurt like hell but a quick recovery on the bottom of Boston Hill, I dropped all three and got a decent gap on them on that one climb. Minutes before I gapped them I thought I was cooked, then the guy in third said its yours, you have been strong, and then I woke up and took off. This convinces me most of my failings were psychological because I was ready to pack it in. That day I had a coffee for breakfast, a "Slender Blend" shake for lunch, 2 more coffees and a snack about 2 hours before the race. I had been in the Newbridge GP 5 days before hand where I made a break, twice, and only got caught 500m from the line, and even then, I was overtaken by half the bunch but I managed to overtake them again before the line and was on track for points before I swerved left when someone crashed. That morning I had a cup of coffee. After both I had decent sized dinners but never felt lacking during the race, but everyone is different, I know lads who would die on a club spin without a gel. I think, depending on my time leading up to a race, I get between a good hour to a good two hours after which I can't imagine i could give anymore. Last year I wouldn't be able to cycle into work on my current diet, it took a bit of getting used too.

I find out fascinating. I've got the bonk after 90 minutes training which I couldn't explain and I've raced 4 hours on a bottle and a bar. Never makes sense!

Same here, two weeks of holidays and drinking beer and eating sh1t, and I bonked on a training spin only 45 minutes in, couldn't move my legs, 3 weeks before I would have kept going at the same pace for two hours.

harringtonp

As seen here nutrition is one thing that varies enormously across riders.

I use to experiment with gels, super powders and caffeine.

Now it's just jelly babies in the back pocket and water with perhaps a mineral or vitamin c tablet

Taxuser1

the other thing I always find fascinating is that i never ever see other riders eating and taking gels in races I'm in at whatever length. how are they so sneaky - pure mindgames !! they're usually the skinny 20 year old professionals though.

CramCycle

If I do bring something with me it's Jelly babies, Jellybeans or Haribo Tangfastics. I don't recall the last time I used them though.

dahat

On jelly babies, Tesco own brand, 49c and far less powdery then any other brand.

dahat

Taxuser1 wrote: »

the other thing I always find fascinating is that i never ever see other riders eating and taking gels in races I'm in at whatever length. how are they so sneaky - pure mindgames !! they're usually the skinny 20 year old professionals though.

They normally do so when out the back or mid pack maybe? To be seen skulling gels & food may indicate a lad is or about to struggle.

harringtonp

Taxuser1 wrote: »

the other thing I always find fascinating is that i never ever see other riders eating and taking gels in races I'm in at whatever length. how are they so sneaky - pure mindgames !! they're usually the skinny 20 year old professionals though.

I see plenty of wrappers flying back through the air

Raymzor

harringtonp wrote: »

I see plenty of wrappers flying back through the air

I think you are right!

This a picture following a clean up after one of the first races this year!!!Attachment not found.