Completely Put Off Having Children

pinkyeye

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't understand this reason for having kids, is it that people believe their children will look after them when they are old?
That's a terrible selfish reason for having them!
When I am old, too old to be alone, I will spend money to be somewhere I don't have to be alone. If I want /need that. & I will pay for it myself.
Seems very bad to expect your kids to look after you!

That's not the point of it at all for me bubbly. The point is when you're older the people who will love you unconditionally will be your children if your parents and siblings are dead.

To me that's very precious right now. My parents are still alive but barely, when they go I know that my kids will still be there hopefully until I die (don't want any of them to go before me).

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Selfish thought maybe, but it's not one I thought of when I had them, just one I've realised now that they're adults.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

pinkyeye wrote: »

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Kids don't love their parents unconditionally. I have nothing to do with my Father and don't even think of him as a parent. I don't wish him any harm, but I also don't care for him as a person, and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I never saw him again.

notsoyoungwan

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

So what if someone isn’t ‘remembered’ in 100 years time? They’ll be long dead, it won’t bother them. And anyway, family trees generally include aunts, uncles and extended family anyway.

But what’s the value in knowing that in 100 years time someone will do a bit of research and say “oh ok, my great grandmother was called notsoyoungwan and lived in place X”. Where’s the deep meaning and satisfaction in that? What’s so wonderful about it? It’s quite narcissistic to think you don’t want to be forgotten for generations.

Everyone who is alive is making a difference to others in some way. It can be by positive enriching fulfilling relationships with parents, siblings, friends; it can be through work; it can be a number of ways.

I’m a hospital consultant. At this stage I’ve treated literally thousands of patients and it’s likely I’ll treat thousands more during my career. I know I have made a huge difference to thousands of people, to their quality of life, and there are people alive today because I treated them. That’s immensely fulfilling and rewarding. There is meaning and fulfilment to be found in many different places.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, kind of..in 100 years like, unless you contribute something major to humanity there will be nothing left of you..no one will remember you..

Had you a couple of children there could be 50 people in existence because of you.. who, if they looked back their family tree they'd find you..

So what?

My mother always said 'look after the living'. I would rather people put more effort in to being nice to the people they meet and interact with on a daily basis irrespective of the relationship with them rather than being focused on someone who died 100 years earlier or who might be alive in 100 years time.

notsoyoungwan

pinkyeye wrote: »

That's not the point of it at all for me bubbly. The point is when you're older the people who will love you unconditionally will be your children if your parents and siblings are dead.

To me that's very precious right now. My parents are still alive but barely, when they go I know that my kids will still be there hopefully until I die (don't want any of them to go before me).

Friends are all well and good as are lovers, partners etc. but they do not love you unconditionally.

Selfish thought maybe, but it's not one I thought of when I had them, just one I've realised now that they're adults.

Kids love you unconditionally? Not necessarily. My parents raised a large family and more than one of my siblings has treated them badly and not been there when they needed them- young kids may live their parents unconditionally but they grow into adults and some of those adults are not nice people and are quite selfish. I’ve seen so many elderly people whose children don’t treat them well at all.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

People who look at child free people and give them the condescending "poor you, having kids is the only true happiness, what an empty existence you must have" are assholes.

And right on cue...

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

You can reach the end of your days childless, but financially rich, having led a carefree life but I guarantee you, that it will feel hollow and empty.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Kids love you unconditionally? Not necessarily. My parents raised a large family and more than one of my siblings has treated them badly and not been there when they needed them- young kids may live their parents unconditionally but they grow into adults and some of those adults are not nice people and are quite selfish. I’ve seen so many elderly people whose children don’t treat them well at all.

Some parents are also not nice people and quite selfish, and don't treat their children well.

It works both ways. Don't just single out the kids. Many have legitimate reasons for disowning their parents.

notsoyoungwan

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

Some parents are also not nice people and quite selfish, and don't treat their children well.

It works both ways. Don't just single out the kids. Many have legitimate reasons for disowning their parents.

I’ve no doubt that’s the case. But my post was in response to someone who was saying having kids was great cos they’ll love you unconditionally. I was merely pointing out that that’s just not true.

joe40

I hope my kids maintain contact as they grow into adulthood. Teens now, but that also depends to an extent on the relationship I develop and nurture with them.
In terms of looking after me in old age that should not be their obligation.

pinkyeye

Wompa1 wrote: »

From a biological standpoint, it is the only reason to exist. We live and multiply and continue on the human race.

That's an absolutely ridiculous point to make!

It is not the only reason we exist. Every single person in this world has a purpose and leaves behind some legacy, that doesn't have to be children.

In fact if I'm honest (and I'm a parent), the people who aren't parents probably leave behind bigger legacies. Like the greatest scientists, inventors, business people in the world are most likely not to be parents.

Even those who aren't the greatest at whatever field there in make huge impacts in the world. Like animal lovers, charitable people etc. EVERYONE leaves a legacy.

JustAThought

I wonder how many women secretly regret having married their husbands and having their children - I know at least two who bitterly lament their decisions . I wonder how many of the wimen who spend their whole day absent frim and intentionally away from their children would give them up or turn back the clock if they feasibly could.

I also know men who have abandoned their families and children and walked out on them, giving little for their keep and staying as far away from any contact as possible - including Birthdays and Christmasses.

People deciding after the fact or first few
years that children are not for them are hidden in plain sight everywhere “. Most of them are just not particularly honest about it and hide behind the cliches of adoring and best thing ever - but in fact they spend the absolute minimum of time theyncan get away with in exposing themselves to and engaging with their children and spend every wKing hour choosing to work, doing a work commute and having as little contact with or to do with upbringing and nurturing their children as possible.

the_syco

s1ippy wrote: »

We are erring on the side of not, because we feel that society is absolute squalor and couldn't reconcile bringing a child into it.

Society is always "absolute squalor". Some people find bringing a child into it gives life meaning.

s1ippy wrote: »

To people who are sure they aren't having children, what are your reasons?

No patience for them.

SEPT 23 1989

joe40 wrote: »

I hope my kids maintain contact as they grow into adulthood. Teens now, but that also depends to an extent on the relationship I develop and nurture with them.
In terms of looking after me in old age that should not be their obligation.

I will look after my parents if it comes to that and I hope I have brought my children up right that they will look after me when hopefully it doesn't come to that

Mam of 4

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, but you wouldn't be here unless they had procreated..

Aren't you thankful they did?..

No, I'm not thankful. If I wasn't here I wouldn't know I wasn't here. Any muppet can get someone pregnant. Should I be getting everyone I possibly can pregnant now so future people exist and can thank me for it?

pinkyeye

Sky King wrote: »

Reasons to not have kids - my god where do I start. It's the most narcissistic selfish thing you can do.

How about how immoral it is to put more resourse consuming people on our already overpopulated planet - and here in the western world kids consume WAY more resourses than elsewhere.

Or how about how immoral it is to inflict this human condition on some person without asking their permission, just to satisfy your own need for 'fulfillment'. Putting people here to have more people to have more people... it's the most pointless exercise ever.

Even healthy kids are annoying at the best of times, then don't get me started on all the 5hit that could be wrong with them... They could have some disability or disorder or chronic illness that requires constant care. Or be really annoying like that autistic kid on the TV who screeches and bangs his head on the wall. Or (far more likely) they could turn out to be complete assholes despite your best efforts.

Or the kids could turn out to be great adults and just fukc off an leave you like what happened to a friend of mine's mam - she's divorced and her kids ****ed off to Asia for years and left her on her own. What a waste of a youth raising them so 'you'll have them when you are old'.

Jesus, what a sad outlook to have on life.

riclad

We are facing into the worst depression since the 80s We have maybe ten years left to stop global warming before it becomes irreversible and makes much of the earth impossible to live on. EG too hot and too dry with limited access to water. We have giant corporations paying little tax by having an office in Luxembourg or some tax haven. We have leaders like trump and putin
who spread fake news and seem to mostly care about the rich and corporations who can donate to their relection. Every day some company announces 1000,s of layoffs
Good luck to you if you want to have children
I can understand why someone who is not well off or on a high salary would be reluctant to have children

The birth rate in America is very low at the moment I read an article it costs 30k to give
birth in an American hospital having children in
America is expensive childcare is expensive
I grew up in the 80s. People were optimistic
things were getting better people did not
worry about global warming or high rents
Anyone who had a full time job could buy a house Now rents are high houses prices are high young people are under pressure to save up for a deposit while paying high rents
It's up to each person to decide if they wish to have children I notice people have maybe one or 2 children no one seems to have 3 or 4 children any more If some couple decides to not have children in the present economic situation I think its understandable

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

I wonder how many women secretly regret having married their husbands and having their children - I know at least two who bitterly lament their decisions . I wonder how many of the wimen who spend their whole day absent frim and intentionally away from their children would give them up or turn back the clock if they feasibly could.

I also know men who have abandoned their families and children and walked out on them, giving little for their keep and staying as far away from any contact as possible - including Birthdays and Christmasses.

People deciding after the fact or first few
years that children are not for them are hidden in plain sight everywhere “. Most of them are just not particularly honest about it and hide behind the cliches of adoring and best thing ever - but in fact they spend the absolute minimum of time theyncan get away with in exposing themselves to and engaging with their children and spend every wKing hour choosing to work, doing a work commute and having as little contact with or to do with upbringing and nurturing their children as possible.

Exactly this! It is not the words people speak it is their actions. People trying to constantly fob off childminding to everyone other than themselves is where I see regret in some people who had children.

4Ad

I unfortunately dont have kids ( 52)..
Wish I had. Myself and my ex did try, nothing physically wrong, just didn't work out..
I don't dwell upon it too much.
Kind of worried who's gonna mind me when I get older, I'll cross that when I get older..hmm

Divorced now, I really do think not having children put a strain on the marriage...

SEPT 23 1989

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't think many , if any , expect their children to look after them in old age tbh . What I do think is that they/we hope that our grown children would be the ones to have our best interests at heart if it ever came to a point that we couldn't make cognitive decisions ourselves .

Although I do think that's a conversation that should be had before it ever gets to that point .

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

Roger the cabin boy

pinkyeye wrote: »

Jesus, what a sad outlook to have on life.

This whole thread is rather depressing

pinkyeye

You know what would make this society less of a "squalor"? If people stopped criticising each other for their choices and stopped making judgements about each other.

Some people have children, some people don't. It's not a competition. :rolleyes:

EmmetSpiceland

I pray my kids don’t have to look after me in my old age.

Hopefully, by then we’ll have voluntary euthanasia and I can sign myself up as soon as I can’t look after myself.

I’m not talking about “assisted living” or having a helper, that’s fine. I mean full on dependancy. I think I’d feel that way with, or without, kids.

I should also point out that all that “legacy” or “a part of you living on” shíte is nonsense. We’ll all be a lost digital print in two generations, just like our great-grandparents are yellowing in an old photograph locked in a box somewhere.

Mr_Muffin

It's a gamble. How do you really know you won't enjoy being a parent unless you become one?

Mam of 4

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The last thing we want is our children to have to look after us but if it happens I hope I have brought them up to know they will be there

Likewise here , it's a conversation we've already had , each one of them or all of them collectively would look after me in a heartbeat .
Not going to happen if i ever become so incapacitated as not to be able to look after myself and they know that . My decision at the end of the day .

Wanderer19

I feel guilty bringing two children into this world. Global warming, country is so badly managed, cost of housing, overpopulated. Lack of a good education or healthcare system. Places of natural beauty/historical interest being shut/restricted to the public. I can definitely understand why others wouldn't want children.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I pray my kids don’t have to look after me in my old age.

Hopefully, by then we’ll have voluntary euthanasia and I can sign myself up as soon as I can’t look after myself.

I’m not talking about “assisted living” or having a helper, that’s fine. I mean full on dependancy. I think I’d feel that way with, or without, kids.

I should also point out that all that “legacy” or “a part of you living on” shíte is nonsense. We’ll all be a lost digital print in two generations, just like our great-grandparents are yellowing in an old photograph locked in a box somewhere.

I hate the idea of anybody having to "look after me". Once I'm no longer able to care for myself or I feel my quality of life has deteriorated to the point that I no longer wish to go on, I hope that euthanasia will legally be an option and I can opt out when the time comes. We see it as a kindness to put animals, especially family pets, down, yet we force elderly relatives to live on until the bitter end even though alzheimers or whatever has long since devoured the person that was once there, which I personally think is cruel, especially when someone has previously expressed that they never want to live once they've reached that state.

jester77

Wanderer19 wrote: »

I feel guilty bringing two children into this world. Global warming, country is so badly managed, cost of housing, overpopulated. Lack of a good education or healthcare system. Places of natural beauty/historical interest being shut/restricted to the public. I can definitely understand why others wouldn't want children.

Emigration will always be there. It's what I did, and when I see the lifestyle my kids have here in Germany compared to in Ireland, I don't see myself returning.

I have 4.
Let me tell you
I cant imagine life without them they are beautiful, inside and out, curious loving gentle. Half of me and half of the man I love, perfectly together.
Let me tell you
Some days I can imagine life without them, they are messy, loud, brats.
My money isn't mine anymore I work to feed and entertain them. I'm certain I could have ruled the world had I not had them.
But I love watching them grow, shaping them into goodness and all those things, I want them to achieve more and all they can.
I work so hard to provide it.
So to answer your question.. You'll regret(what ifs) having them some days, for want of a better word, and you'll regret not having them.
Flip a coin

c.p.w.g.w

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

I hate the idea of anybody having to "look after me". Once I'm no longer able to care for myself or I feel my quality of life has deteriorated to the point that I no longer wish to go on, that euthanasia will legally be an option and I can opt out when the time comes. We see it as a kindness to put animals, especially family pets, down, yet we force elderly relatives to live on until the bitter end even though alzheimers or whatever has long since devoured the person that was once there, which I personally think is cruel, especially when someone has previously expressed that they never want to live once they've reached that state.

A buddy of mine has a plan to just take a cocktail of drugs when he gets too old...he watched his grandfather suffer for years with zero quality of life, literally being pumped full of drugs to just keep him alive...how is that considered humane